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[Medium Drink Of Water]

I got mine done before they started doing the S-cut or double cuts, or whatever method they're doing now.  Actually one of the first test patients getting the double cut method arrived about halfway through my LL.  He had a weird piecemeal frame because the new design wasn't finalized.  It was a complicated hassle for him to do his turns.

The reason they started doing it differently was to speed up bone growth.  Asians tend to have slower bone growth so they had a lot of Chinese patients in danger of non-union.  Some ended up lengthening .33mm a day or less sometimes, and having to take breaks from turning entirely.  Some gave up before reaching their goals.  Chinese locals there pay by the centimeter so it was costing the clinic money.

[jamesizu]

Umm... I'm COMPLETELY new to ALL of this... just a heads up.

Are you're proportions right? Torso and arms? Are they short? Can people tell something is up if your shirtless? Also, does six inches sound excessive?

P.s. can someone...like..walk me through on how to use this site? The most I've ever been involved on an online community is yahoo answers 

[Adriano]

I don't understand? I always thought your situation was rather strange as you have already got a wife, good job and a hobby that relies on being agile. But, this just confirms that LL has little to offer you. What confuses me further is you want to go back for a second surgery!? What do you think you have to gain from this? Just curious

 aha ha ha ha This is exactly why u cant just listen to what ppl say. actions speak louder than words.

the fact that he wants to go back for seconds  ( spending money and time and risking complications) gives a far better picture of the benefits of LL than what he might post /say.

[Sweden]

aha ha ha ha This is exactly why u cant just listen to what ppl say. actions speak louder than words.

the fact that he wants to go back for seconds  ( spending money and time and risking complications) gives a far better picture of the benefits of LL than what he might post /say.

Yes, I've been short all of my life and I still don't feel the way I want to.

If I don't get any benefit then fine, I'm doing this for myself.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Umm... I'm COMPLETELY new to ALL of this... just a heads up.

Are you're proportions right? Torso and arms? Are they short? Can people tell something is up if your shirtless? Also, does six inches sound excessive?

P.s. can someone...like..walk me through on how to use this site? The most I've ever been involved on an online community is yahoo answers 

My proportions are fine.  Nobody has ever noticed anything weird about my body.  Many short guys have disproportionately short legs anyway, which was the case with me.  There are people who have done six inches (2-3 on tibiae, 3-4 on femurs) and that's definitely a lot, but whether it's excessive is debatable.  You might look a little bit odd doing 6 inches, but how odd depends on the rest of your body.  Some people want the extra height no matter what.

Well, you successfully made a post here so you're doing it right.  All the other features are pretty much superficial.  The only other important thing to know about is "MY MESSAGES" near the top of the screen.  When a number appears next to that, it means you have a new private message.  If you want to talk with another member without everyone else seeing the conversation, you use the private message system.

[jamesizu]

Thank you

However, I still don't know how to make my own post. Is this because the site has deemed me a "newbie" and I don't have that privilege?

[Medium Drink Of Water]

No, only old forum  restricts newbies from doing things. Click where I've circled in the picture.

[Russianblues]

Yes, I've been short all of my life and I still don't feel the way I want to.

If I don't get any benefit then fine, I'm doing this for myself.

Hi Sweden, don't take this the wrong way, but, perhaps a psychiatrist would be a cheaper/quicker solution to your issues? If you acknowledge no noticeable benefit from your initial surgery yet want to proceed with a second then clearly the way you feel isn't due to any external factors but a height complex. Visits to a psychiatrist could save you a sizable chunk of money not to mention all the negative of LL. If you still want to do it after some sessions then by all means, but, you really have nothing to lose by talking it over with someone. Much love.

[Doflamingo]

Hi

This might has been asked already (my apologies):

How long was the lengthening period? (As accurate as possible please)
At which rate (lengthening)?
Did you had any administrator problems because of LL before? (For ex not able to go home because of the papers)
Did you suffer ANY side effects that ISN'T curable after the LL?
Can you walk normal without having any problems for a long period?

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Hi

This might has been asked already (my apologies):

1. How long was the lengthening period? (As accurate as possible please)
2. At which rate (lengthening)?
3. Did you had any administrator problems because of LL before? (For ex not able to go home because of the papers)
4. Did you suffer ANY side effects that ISN'T curable after the LL?
5. Can you walk normal without having any problems for a long period?

1. I was in Beijing for 5 months and I lengthened 7.5cm during that time.

2. Rate of lengthening was highly variable.  In the beginning they tell everyone to lengthen .66mm per day, and they wait for x-rays to see how good your bone growth is before telling you to lengthen more or less each day.  My bone growth was excellent so in the end they were telling me to lengthen 1.33mm per day.

3. No.

4. I'm not sure if the stiffness/sensitivity in my knees will ever go away.

5. Yes.  I can walk for hours.

[NMG]

Hi,

You said you were in Beijing for 5 months and you gained 7.5cm, did you stay in Beijing for a few months after frame removal?

Could you give a rough, brief timeline of how long you lengthened for, how long after surgery you got your frames removed, how long after frame removal until you could first walk without crutches and how long after frame removal until you could walk normally.

Thanks.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Hi,

You said you were in Beijing for 5 months and you gained 7.5cm, did you stay in Beijing for a few months after frame removal?

Could you give a rough, brief timeline of how long you lengthened for, how long after surgery you got your frames removed, how long after frame removal until you could first walk without crutches and how long after frame removal until you could walk normally.

Thanks.

My plane ticket departed 5 months to the day after I arrived in Beijing.  I stayed for 2 weeks after frame removal.  They want you to stay for 2 weeks to make sure everything is okay with the IM nails but then you're done.

Time in frames - 4 1/2 months

Walking without crutches - 3 months after frame removal (I was very careful and conservative with this.  People who rush it are prone to problems with the IM nails).

It's hard to say when I could walk "normally."  It was a gradual, steady improvement.  By the time I ditched the crutches, there was nothing unusual about the way I walked.

[Doflamingo]

So 4 and a half month lengthening for 7.5cm?
Isn't that slow?

1mm/day = 3cm/month = 2,5 month = 7,5cm (if math is correct)

How come it took so long?

[Medium Drink Of Water]

So 4 and a half month lengthening for 7.5cm?
Isn't that slow?

1mm/day = 3cm/month = 2,5 month = 7,5cm (if math is correct)

How come it took so long?

Pin bending and taking breaks from turning due to knee stiffness.

[Doflamingo]

What were the 'causes of pin bendings?

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Weight bearing and muscle resistance are the two causes of pin bending.  It happens to everyone using a pin-based device, it wasn't a complication.

[Taller]

Thanks so much for doing this. This thread is more helpful than almost anything I have seen from past LL vets on old forum . If you don't mind, I have a few additional questions?

1. When you had to renew a drivers license or passport post-LL, did your height increase cause any problems/complications/suspicion?

2. Assuming you have health insurance, will your coverage costs increase if it is found out that you had this procedure? I assume a doctor would notice a height increase at a checkup at some point, wouldn't they, and after age 23 they would probably investigate, right?

3. Do you have any kind of nerve damage or change in your legs post-LL? Are any areas more/less sensitive? Is your feeling ability altered in any way? Can you move all of your toes as well as pre-LL?

4. Are you able to sit comfortably in a normal chair for long periods of time (an hour or more), or do longer tibiae make it uncomfortable?

5. Have you tried climbing ladders, trees, or rock walls post LL? If so, how did you fare?

6. Can you walk as much as you want without experiencing more leg pain than before LL?

Thanks so, so much again for doing this! People like you are the reason I left old forum  in favor of this forum.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Thanks so much for doing this. This thread is more helpful than almost anything I have seen from past LL vets on old forum . If you don't mind, I have a few additional questions?

1. When you had to renew a drivers license or passport post-LL, did your height increase cause any problems/complications/suspicion?

2. Assuming you have health insurance, will your coverage costs increase if it is found out that you had this procedure? I assume a doctor would notice a height increase at a checkup at some point, wouldn't they, and after age 23 they would probably investigate, right?

3. Do you have any kind of nerve damage or change in your legs post-LL? Are any areas more/less sensitive? Is your feeling ability altered in any way? Can you move all of your toes as well as pre-LL?

4. Are you able to sit comfortably in a normal chair for long periods of time (an hour or more), or do longer tibiae make it uncomfortable?

5. Have you tried climbing ladders, trees, or rock walls post LL? If so, how did you fare?

6. Can you walk as much as you want without experiencing more leg pain than before LL?

Thanks so, so much again for doing this! People like you are the reason I left old forum  in favor of this forum.

1.  No.  Most peoples' drivers' licenses list their height/weight when they were 18 so it's not unusual for someone to be taller or heavier.  That was the case for me.  I know Jungle was concerned it'd be an issue because he lengthened so much and did it later in life, so he had Dr. Mitkovic write a letter for him explaining the surgery in case he'd need it.

2.  My health insurance did not go up because of this.  As far as I know, no cosmetic surgery causes insurance rates to rise.

3.  I have a little bit of numbness right where the osteotomy sites are.  Most of the time I don't notice anything though.  I can move my ankles/toes/feet as well as I could before the surgery.

4.  I can sit as long as I want/need to.  The longer tibiae didn't change anything regarding sitting endurance. 

5.  Ladders are no problem.  It's a little harder to climb trees and walls because the longer tibiae have to be pulled up higher to get the feet where they need to go, but not so hard as to make me not do it.

6.  My lower leg muscles get a little more sore after really long walks than they used to, but I still go on really long walks without having to stop.  The difference isn't very much.

Well I'm glad I can help people and hurt that terrible forum at the same time.    So keep the questions coming if you're curious about anything.  But remember I'm only an expert on my personal LL experience, and your results may vary.

[Taller]

Very useful stuff, as usual. I'd give you a major credibility boost, but we all know how well that system worked out for the old forum 

1. Who actually performed your surgery?
2. How much of an issue was the language barrier for you while in Beijing?
3. Do you suffer from hypertrophy of the calves? If so, have big calves made your legs stronger in any way?

[BilateralDamage]

This thread is more helpful than almost anything I have seen from past LL vets on old forum .

It's funny how LL vets are hailed as the greatest things to happen since sliced bread, while they won't even bother to come back to their diaries to answer the many questions people have for them.

Medium Drink Of Water is doing the whole LL Forum community a great service!

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Very useful stuff, as usual. I'd give you a major credibility boost, but we all know how well that system worked out for the old forum 

1. Who actually performed your surgery?
2. How much of an issue was the language barrier for you while in Beijing?
3. Do you suffer from hypertrophy of the calves? If so, have big calves made your legs stronger in any way?

1.  Good question about the first surgery, actually.  Their LL assembly line can do your operation almost immediately after you arrive in Beijing because it's their hospital and their operating room.  The operating room was full of Chinese guys wearing surgical hats and masks and I didn't know who was who yet.  Dr. Aimin Peng was probably the main surgeon for my 1st operation, but it's a team effort regardless and they do your surgery FAST.  I know Dr. Peng was leading the team that performed my 2nd (frame removal) and 3rd (IM nail removal) surgeries because by that time I could recognize the doctors.

2.  Not much of a problem.  The biggest problem is communicating with the caretakers who are migrant peasants and don't speak any English at all.  But you're only talking to them about food, water, toilet, washing hair, brushing teeth, etc.  The rest of the staff members speak some degree of English, and the foreign liaison Wang Bei (Ronne) will translate if necessary.  She almost always accompanied Dr. Peng on his rounds because his English isn't very good.

3.  No, and I'm not sure I'd use the word suffering for that either.  I wish it had happened to me.  I think my endurance would probably be better with the larger muscles.  Walking is fine but my legs get tired pretty quickly when doing more strenuous activities.

[Taller]

Thanks again for your answers, mate. I apologize if I'm grilling you with questions. Knowing old forum  trends though, I really don't know if I'll ever have the chance to get questions answered by a LL vet ever again, let alone one who went to Beijing, so here are a few more questions, if you don't mind.

1. How long did it take for your bones to feel strong and for marrow to come back after IM nail removal?

2. (Asked on behalf of the more ambitious/crazier lengtheners out there) After Dong Mei's successful 12cm LL stunt, I seem to see more and more people say they will shoot for ~10cm. Did you see this much in Beijing? Of the people that went for it, do you know about how many were successful and around how many actually recovered well?

3. Six years later, do you feel as though you are still recovering from LL, or do you think that you have stopped recovering and have either plateaued recovery wise or moved into improving your health beyond your "recovered" levels.

4. Do you feel that physiotherapy beyond the typically recommended walking, biking, and sandbagging is necessary for 7.5cm?

5. Did your IM nails trigger any metal detectors?

6. Do the Beijing frames lock the ankles in place to lengthen the Achilles' tendon? If so, is walking still manageable with level of restricted ankle motion caused by the frames?

7. Did the Beijing doctors affix each cut fibula to its corresponding tibia in one place or two? It's hard to tell from the X-rays in some patients' diaries.

8. Did the majority of patients who went home with IM nails, leave in wheelchairs (and are they provided by the hospital), walk with braces and crutches, or walk unaided?

9. Last and not least, did 3 inches feel like a major change in height to you, personally? This one's pretty subjective but I'd still love to hear your response.

Again, a great many thanks! You have no idea how much I appreciate this, and how helpful your responses may be to me and others considering LL in Beijing in the future. I seriously feel that this thread informed me as much as, if not more than, all the Beijing diaries on old forum  combined.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Thanks again for your answers, mate. I apologize if I'm grilling you with questions. Knowing old forum  trends though, I really don't know if I'll ever have the chance to get questions answered by a LL vet ever again, let alone one who went to Beijing, so here are a few more questions, if you don't mind.

1. How long did it take for your bones to feel strong and for marrow to come back after IM nail removal?

2. (Asked on behalf of the more ambitious/crazier lengtheners out there) After Dong Mei's successful 12cm LL stunt, I seem to see more and more people say they will shoot for ~10cm. Did you see this much in Beijing? Of the people that went for it, do you know about how many were successful and around how many actually recovered well?

3. Six years later, do you feel as though you are still recovering from LL, or do you think that you have stopped recovering and have either plateaued recovery wise or moved into improving your health beyond your "recovered" levels.

4. Do you feel that physiotherapy beyond the typically recommended walking, biking, and sandbagging is necessary for 7.5cm?

5. Did your IM nails trigger any metal detectors?

6. Do the Beijing frames lock the ankles in place to lengthen the Achilles' tendon? If so, is walking still manageable with level of restricted ankle motion caused by the frames?

7. Did the Beijing doctors affix each cut fibula to its corresponding tibia in one place or two? It's hard to tell from the X-rays in some patients' diaries.

8. Did the majority of patients who went home with IM nails, leave in wheelchairs (and are they provided by the hospital), walk with braces and crutches, or walk unaided?

9. Last and not least, did 3 inches feel like a major change in height to you, personally? This one's pretty subjective but I'd still love to hear your response.

Again, a great many thanks! You have no idea how much I appreciate this, and how helpful your responses may be to me and others considering LL in Beijing in the future. I seriously feel that this thread informed me as much as, if not more than, all the Beijing diaries on old forum  combined.

Awww... all this praise is gonna start going to my head. 

1.  I don't know how long it took for the marrow to come back.  My bones were fully consolidated when the nails came out so strength wasn't an issue.  All I had to do was recover from the soreness of the surgery (which did take a few weeks) and then I was feeling great.  Make no mistake, that 3rd surgery is major surgery that's only minor in comparison to the first two.

2.  Yes!  Lots of people went in there with the 10cm goal.  I even considered going for it.  The clinic's sales pitch was (up to) 10cm in 4 months for $25,000 at that time, and you could stay longer for free if you needed to.  Some got to 8, some got to 9, and some did end up doing the full 10.  I don't know how any of them are doing long-term yet.  I recently managed to get in touch with a girl who did 10cm.  Once she gets back to me, and if she gives me permission, I'll let LL Forum how she's doing after 5 years.  Perhaps I'll invite her here too if she's interested.

3.  I thought I had plateaued a while ago, but in the last several months I started doing kickboxing exercises and yoga which took my fitness and recovery to another level.  Now I'm not sure what my recovery potential is, but it's higher than I thought it was even six months ago.

4.  I think it's adequate in the beginning since most PTs don't know anything about LL anyway.  A few months after your 2nd surgery, I think PT can be helpful to address any specific problems you're having.  That's how it was for me anyway.  Maybe there's some PTs who are LL specialists and can do great things for you right away, but I don't know who they are.  I had to just use the PTs who worked for my HMO anyway since money was so tight after the operation.

5.  They never triggered any metal detectors.

6.  In Beijing they have a spring-loaded heel attachment that lengthens the Achilles.  You can adjust the tension on it to be really tight when you're in bed, then loosen it when you want to walk.  I posted pics of it on this board, possibly in the clinic's thread in the doctor directory.

7.  I seriously do not remember, and I don't have any of my old x-rays to check.

8.  Everyone gets a brand new wheelchair included in the fee.  Most people left in their wheelchairs, especially if they were leaving 2 weeks after their 2nd surgery, which is the minimum the clinic recommends.  Some people chose to stay longer until they'd managed to get strong enough to leave with crutches.  Only one idiot was walking around unaided, and he started doing it within a day or two after his 2nd surgery, against doctor's orders.  Like I was saying in another thread, you can stand on a weight-bearing nail immediately, but that doesn't mean you should.

9.  A thousand times yes!  3 inches changed my life.  I am not even the same person who went into that hospital at 5'7.

If you have more questions, please don't be shy about asking them.  Even stupid ones!  I just love talking about LL and could do it all day, which is why my falling out with old forum  was such a bummer.    I was so happy when this forum started up that I decided to do whatever I could to help it succeed and grow.

[LLL]

Could you elaborate a bit on number nine? Can you date women you couldn't before now, for instance? Do attractive women show more interest in you with your new height?

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Yes and yes.  At 5'7 it was like I didn't exist to some women.  The prettier they were, the more invisible I was.

[LLL]

Yes and yes.  At 5'7 it was like I didn't exist to some women.  The prettier they were, the more invisible I was.

Have anyone of them noticed you having longer legs than you were born with, if they saw you nked?
 

[BilateralDamage]

Thanks. I guess it's moving abroad or getting LL for me unless I want to risk being forever alone, because my country's attractive women certainly don't seem to want me all that much. FML.

Have anyone of them noticed you having longer legs than you were born with, if they saw you nked?

I'm much shorter than my nation's height average and I have a beautiful girlfriend.  My suggestion is for you to rely on your wits to get an attractive girlfriend, not height.. (who wants a girl who just wants you for your height anyway!?)

[LLL]

I'm much shorter than my nation's height average and I have a beautiful girlfriend.  My suggestion is for you to rely on your wits to get an attractive girlfriend, not height.. (who wants a girl who just wants you for your height anyway!?)

How much shorter?  Great topic anyway, MDOW does a superb job at providing valuable information from his post-LL life.

[BilateralDamage]

I'm in the 6th percentile of my country's height average, we're short buddies. 

I agree with everything you've said, it's possible that your soul-mate could be out there but she only overlooks you because she's taller than you by a few inches.  LL definitely expands the very limited dating pool us short guys have.

[Taller]

Guess who. You've already addressed so many questions I couldn't find answers to in other places, and the ones I have remaining are less of a priority compared to the others I had. But, since you've been so kind as to offer to answer even my more stupid questions, I was wondering:

1. The pictures you posted of your scars (or lack of them) are impressive. Where did you get them removed? Was it at the Guang Ji Hospital? If not, where did you get them removed, and what method did you use to remove them? Also, if you don't mind my asking, how much did this cost you?

2. As my username may suggest, sometimes I contemplate using LL, not only to reach average height, but to become tall. Being tall would be just awesome in so many ways (I often even dream about it lol), and since I have a long torso and broad shoulders, it may* be feasible without looking weird. Oh wait. I'm an adult. I don't want to look like T-Rex anymore. Broad shoulders mean that, with my wingspan currently only 4cm more than my height, if I were to gain more than a couple inches, my arms would look very short. Just when I thought hope was lost, I saw that the Guang Ji hospital offers humerus (upper arm) lengthening. I wonder if you've met anyone who's had this, or if you'd heard anything about it. If so (and even if not), what are your thoughts? Dr. Paley claims the humerus is the easiest bone to lengthen, but I'd rather get this done in Beijing rather than with a US doctor, if safe and possible. Of course, safety comes first, which is why I feel the need to ask this question.

3. You've already addressed your ability and confidence in jumping down, but how is your ability to jump up? Is jumping difficult now? About how high do you think you can jump?

A billion thanks. Really.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Hey, glad to talk to an intelligent potential LLer with good questions about LL anytime! 

1.  I got them removed by a plastic surgeon in America.  When I went back for my nail removal at Guang Ji I asked about it and they didn't want to do it, saying my scars weren't so bad.  I took that to mean their scar removal ability was truly 2nd rate.  At least they were honest about it though.

Gels/creams didn't do anything but at least they were cheap.  Laser treatments were an expensive ripoff that gave me almost no improvement.  The plastic surgeon I went to surgically excised the scars (cutting them out and stitching the non-scarred skin together.)  That's the only way you're going to turn LL gashes into little white lines.  Pinsites scars that are close together can't be excised at the same time; you have to wait several months or a year in between excisions, so it took multiple visits and surgeries.

I must have spent about $6000 on scar removal over the last few years but I think I could've gotten it done cheaper with different doctors and if I'd known what to do from the get-go.  Just look for a plastic surgeon who specializes in operations like brachioplasty and tissue expansion and you'll be fine.  A burn specialist would also be a great choice for surgery.

2.  I saw one person who was getting his arms lengthened in Beijing, but he was a Chinese dwarf.  I really don't know anything about arm lengthening.  Most LLers I've met aren't interested in it and won't get it done even if their arms are shorter than they "should be" (whatever that really means) after LL.  My advice is do your legs first and then decide if you really need it, because a lot of people decide they don't.

3.  My head will go as high as it ever could when I jump, but my feet go about 3 inches less off the ground due to the longer legs.  So that's pretty much what one would expect.