Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Hamza]

My advice is just keep on emailing with the stronger emails...  but in the long term .. I wouldn't waste mine on a lawsuit as it will be costly and time consuming....

The CEO Just answered my email:

"

Thank you for your email. I will have our team review and one of them will be back in touch with you.  Thank you for emailing me.

Louis A. Shapiro
President and CEO
Hospital for Special Surgery
535 East 70th Street
New York, New York 10021
www.hss.edu

"

[PANDA:BEAR..]

That's good news.... try tell them your situation and how much it is has already costed you in monetary terms .. and health and Time and travel... try to make some sort of deal !

[BeYourBest]

Explain every detail very accurately if possible!

All the best

[Hamza]

I will be waiting an answer from the CEO of HSS or from Dr Rozbruch to proceed.
Attached the letter of Dr Betz that shows the correction needed.

https://imgur.com/FMdmceC

[PANDA:BEAR..]

That's great ... I think you should .. be compensated regarding the nail failure..
So ... how much is Dr Betz... charging for correction of the leg discrepancy? 

[InFullStryde]

I will be waiting an answer from the CEO of HSS or from Dr Rozbruch to proceed.
Attached the letter of Dr Betz that shows the correction needed.

https://imgur.com/FMdmceC

I'm sorry you are going through this, Hamza.  Is there any possibility that the bone would heal on its own without further surgery?

[Hamza]

That's great ... I think you should .. be compensated regarding the nail failure..
So ... how much is Dr Betz... charging for correction of the leg discrepancy?

https://imgur.com/FMdmceC

19,000 euro in my case for correction

[Hamza]

I'm sorry you are going through this, Hamza.  Is there any possibility that the bone would heal on its own without further surgery?

its been 10 months and there was early callus formation but the nail is not stable so most probably it wont heal but u never know.
+ i have 9 mm in femur now and 5 mm in tibia and ankle so a total of 14 mm. without an insole of at least 7 mm u can easily notice the length difference when i am walking and forget about doing sports without insole and even with insole u ll be restricted.

[wannagrowtaller]

Hi, Hamza. Did you do the surgery with Betz? Did you insert solid trauma nail? How are you doing?

[Hamza]

Hi, Hamza. Did you do the surgery with Betz? Did you insert solid trauma nail? How are you doing?

Hello,

I will do the surgery in October with Dr Agustin Betz.
U recommend this doctor ? some patients said he is good other said he is bad.

[wannagrowtaller]

I know the same as you. Some people say he is good, some people say he is bad. I don't have experience with him. I don't like to recommend or unrecommend any doctor, because I think it's a very personal and important decision.

I'm just curious about your situation and just hope you will be fine soon.

[TemakiSushi]

Hello,

I will do the surgery in October with Dr Agustin Betz.
U recommend this doctor ? some patients said he is good other said he is bad.

I really think it’s soooo dangerous to lengthen 10mm at once when replacing nail
Why don’t you send emails with your X-rays and info to other CLL doctors such as Kohne, Paley, Donghoon Lee, Hamilton
They’ll give you ideas of what’s good and bad

[wannagrowtaller]

I agree with TemakiSushi about look for other doctors opinion. As your case is not cosmetic, maybe see a doctor who does not do cosmetic (like Franz Birkholtz). Maybe, depending where you are located, you can even get this correction for free in the public health system of your country.

[Hamza]

I really think it’s soooo dangerous to lengthen 10mm at once when replacing nail
Why don’t you send emails with your X-rays and info to other CLL doctors such as Kohne, Paley, Donghoon Lee, Hamilton
They’ll give you ideas of what’s good and bad

when i visisted dr rozbruch 1 year after the surgery he suggested the same solution. in fact he gave me 3 options:

1. trauma nail and cutting again and re gain 10 mm and bone grafting if needed.

2. stryde nail and go 1 mm per day as before.

3. accept to modify my shoes like before surgery by 10 mm which is not an option for me.

do u suggest to have a third consultation ?

In my country they will also use a solid nail as we dont have all the magnetic nail in the market. this kind of surgeries is rare in my country and no one of the doctors showed me a good knowledge in my case. rozbruch and betz was more convincing and they r much more experienced.

[Infinity]

I really think it’s soooo dangerous to lengthen 10mm at once when replacing nail
Why don’t you send emails with your X-rays and info to other CLL doctors such as Kohne, Paley, Donghoon Lee, Hamilton
They’ll give you ideas of what’s good and bad

It is not as dangerous or unusual to lengthen 10mm in one go. With good musculature flexibility it is very much possible. Most LL doctors actually do lengthen you 4/5mm at the beginning to ensure there is no pre-mature consolidation and also that nail is working fine. I would go with this option to get it lengthened in one go and get a solid nail inserted.

[Infinity]

https://imgur.com/FMdmceC

19,000 euro in my case for correction

wow, thats a theft. Look into correction in your country in most EU countries this correction should not cost more than 10k euros and in some it will be covered/done for free. This is not such a complicated procedure and Any respectable orthopedic surgeon who deals with deformity/corrections of lower limbs should be able to deal with it adequately.

My suggestion would be to avoid CLL doctors as there prices are astronomical and you dont really need CLL doctor to perform it. please refer to my last post on this.

[TemakiSushi]

when i visisted dr rozbruch 1 year after the surgery he suggested the same solution. in fact he gave me 3 options:

1. trauma nail and cutting again and re gain 10 mm and bone grafting if needed.

2. stryde nail and go 1 mm per day as before.

3. accept to modify my shoes like before surgery by 10 mm which is not an option for me.

do u suggest to have a third consultation ?

In my country they will also use a solid nail as we dont have all the magnetic nail in the market. this kind of surgeries is rare in my country and no one of the doctors showed me a good knowledge in my case. rozbruch and betz was more convincing and they r much more experienced.

At least Dr Kohne is in Munich
I would contact the doctors I listed by email
You don’t loose anything by sending emails, better ask for prices also

[TemakiSushi]

It is not as dangerous or unusual to lengthen 10mm in one go. With good musculature flexibility it is very much possible. Most LL doctors actually do lengthen you 4/5mm at the beginning to ensure there is no pre-mature consolidation and also that nail is working fine. I would go with this option to get it lengthened in one go and get a solid nail inserted.

Could you tell me which CLL doctors lengthen 4or 5 mm when inserting  nails?

[Infinity]

Its a protocol many CLL doctors use when performing osteotomy in femur bones for the purpose of performing LL. On top of my head i recall both Guichet and betz do it, as i understand the purpose of this is twin fold to avoid fusion of fracture as you dont start lengthening till few days after the initial surgery and also to test the lengthening nail, i.e. if it is functioning properly.

look it as an early bonus gains

[TemakiSushi]

Its a protocol many CLL doctors use when performing osteotomy in femur bones for the purpose of performing LL. On top of my head i recall both Guichet and betz do it, as i understand the purpose of this is twin fold to avoid fusion of fracture as you dont start lengthening till few days after the initial surgery and also to test the lengthening nail, i.e. if it is functioning properly.

look it as an early bonus gains

Betz and Guichet are ones of the most dangerous CLL doctors
I never heard of any reputable and trustworthy doctors lengthening 4, 5 mm upon inserting nails
Please don’t assume what you are saying is something safe and well practiced
Please do not only select the information which are convenient for you

[Infinity]

Betz and Guichet are ones of the most dangerous CLL doctors
I never heard of any reputable and trustworthy doctors lengthening 4, 5 mm upon inserting nails
Please don’t assume what you are saying is something safe and well practiced
Please do not only select the information which are convenient for you

I understand your apprehension and i am not assuming anything and in general i agree with your opinion that both betz and guichet can be reckless and perhaps also greedy but at the same time it does not discount the fact they are both very good surgeons and have a pretty successful careers between them. Moreover they practise in EU and not in some third world country. The same opinion was also conveyed by Rozbruch, as per the quotes provided by Hamza below

''when i visisted dr rozbruch 1 year after the surgery he suggested the same solution. in fact he gave me 3 options:

1. trauma nail and cutting again and re gain 10 mm and bone grafting if needed.''

would you also classify Rozbruch as dangerous and reckless? At the end you are entitled to have an opinion but lets try to back this up with something more substantial rather than what you might or might not have heard. My opinion was based on, what is being practised and what i have seen in several cases (without any complications) and discussed with a few doctors both CLL and normal deformity/ correction and trauma orthopedic surgeons, and not only on hearsay.

[TemakiSushi]

Since last year I had a feeling that Dr Rozbruch is not confident enough for tibias
So l don’t consider him as a trustworthy LL doctor since then
In the case of Hamza, he had only 1 mm discrepancy with femurs pre op
It’s better off doing tibia from the first place
Betz and Rozbruch, both are the doctors of femurs

Also regarding other doctors who is only doing traumas for health insurance, there are bunch of butchers too, bad doctors aren’t only in cosmetic fields
It’s really difficult to find a good orthopedists generally

If it’s really easy as you say to lengthen so much upon inserting nails, why top notch doctors don’t do it with all cosmetic cases

There have been case of nonunion for lengthening too much at once, even a few mm can trigger damage to the nerves
Look at people who suffer with nerve pain when they lengthen even only 1 mm a day
1 mm is giving so much pressure

I don’t think it’s a good idea especially for Hamza to again jump into the second surgery without researching well
Better to consider or consult  other internationally well known doctors for LL

The only CLL doctor for tibia I considered good enough so far  is Donghoon Lee
He does lots tibia cases since many East Asians got short bent tibias
Since most don’t speak English, his reputation is kind of hidden on this forum

[Infinity]

@temakisushi, No one is asking anyone to do anything or jump into anything, definitely not me.  I expressed an informed opinion based on what i have observed and seen. You are also expressing an opinion based on what you FEEL, but thats OK.

Just to point it out to you as you dont seem grasp this simple fact, no sane doctor will do CLL lengthening in one go so actually i am struggling to understand your point. We are not talking about CLL as now hamza's case has became of LL discrepancy (that too a minor one) so more of a deformity correction and many surgeon's would consider it to be perfectly normal to fracture and than extend it in one go as the lengthening required is not so big (abt 10mm). Afterwards it will be nailed with a solid nail and than bone grafted, if needed. Its quick, has a good record of success and patient will be discharged and walking with in 2-3 days and probably can go back to work after a week or so.

I do believe dong lee to be an excellent surgeon but at the same time i think Rozbruch is one of the best in the world. Also both betz and guichet are exellent surgeons and pioneers in the field of LL, when it comes to their ethics and greed a lot is left to be desired though thats why i wont consider them and it has nothing to do with their technical opinion. If i were you i would actually educate myself rather than try to look down on other people's opinions here and specially not on an esteemed surgeon such as Rozbruch's medical opinion that too ONLY because you FEEL differently.

I think i am going to let this discussion rest here as otherwise we will be just repeating ourself.

[TemakiSushi]

I think it is dangerous way of thinking to  say this doctor is a pioneer, so his opinion is good
No it’s not any good, being a pioneer doesn’t make the doctor any trustworthy
There have been cases which are so terrible and sad, which are done by those so called pioneers
I feel quite irresponsible to refer someone to those dangerous doctors without warnings
 
Especially Betz or Guichet, they are known to have had something to do with Apo who was shilling patients on forum

[Hamza]

@temakisushi, No one is asking anyone to do anything or jump into anything, definitely not me.  I expressed an informed opinion based on what i have observed and seen. You are also expressing an opinion based on what you FEEL, but thats OK.

Just to point it out to you as you dont seem grasp this simple fact, no sane doctor will do CLL lengthening in one go so actually i am struggling to understand your point. We are not talking about CLL as now hamza's case has became of LL discrepancy (that too a minor one) so more of a deformity correction and many surgeon's would consider it to be perfectly normal to fracture and than extend it in one go as the lengthening required is not so big (abt 10mm). Afterwards it will be nailed with a solid nail and than bone grafted, if needed. Its quick, has a good record of success and patient will be discharged and walking with in 2-3 days and probably can go back to work after a week or so.

I do believe dong lee to be an excellent surgeon but at the same time i think Rozbruch is one of the best in the world. Also both betz and guichet are exellent surgeons and pioneers in the field of LL, when it comes to their ethics and greed a lot is left to be desired though thats why i wont consider them and it has nothing to do with their technical opinion. If i were you i would actually educate myself rather than try to look down on other people's opinions here and specially not on an esteemed surgeon such as Rozbruch's medical opinion that too ONLY because you FEEL differently.

I think i am going to let this discussion rest here as otherwise we will be just repeating ourself.


I agree more with u and I also highly respect the opinion of TemakiSushi.

TamakiSushi,
After 1 year of the surgery and after I lost the distraction due to Precice Nail 2 malfunction I went for consultation with betz to take a second opinion. Then I went for consultation with rozbruch and one of his options was the same as betz which is acute lengthening of 10 mm with solid nail and walking directly after the surgery and get back to work in 2 weeks. so 2 opinions match.

Also I visisted a doctor in my country and he said we used to do acute lengthenning for up to 2 cm when a patient come from a car accident for example. My local Dr prefer to take out the telescopic nail with an experienced Dr with such a product because it needs some special tools to be removed in a very simple way.

I will take another opinion by sending an email to a new doctor and let u know his reply but I am tired of travelling and doing consultation specialy after I went to USA and Germany the most respectful countries in medecine.

[Infinity]

I think it is dangerous way of thinking to  say this doctor is a pioneer, so his opinion is good
No it’s not any good, being a pioneer doesn’t make the doctor any trustworthy
There have been cases which are so terrible and sad, which are done by those so called pioneers
I feel quite irresponsible to refer someone to those dangerous doctors without warnings
 
Especially Betz or Guichet, they are known to have had something to do with Apo who was shilling patients on forum

Chap let it rest you are sounding like a broken record. I present my opinion based on observation and experience but you keep on going on about how you FEEL. I asked you politely to go and educate yourself rather calling other people irresponsible but it seems you are not able to grasp a simple concept of how medical science works. Please read again my message and also Hamza's message and learn to comprehend what people are writing before selectively picking up one or two sentences and commenting on them to push your agenda. 

[Infinity]

@Hamza please take another opinion or two if you feel the need to do so, there is no harm in it but you dont need to travel to do so as this can be done simply via emails. Although i think you are on the right track but only thing i will suggest is that you can do this surgery relatively cheaper with a good orthopedic surgeon in europe who specializes in lower limb deformities rather than going to someone like betz (who i still believe is an excellent surgeon) as i think both him and guchiet are not very ethical surgeons and charge too much as they are used to doing CLL, hence their prices are very high.

IMO it should not cost you more than 10-12K euros to get it done with a respectable surgeon in one of the EU countries.

[cena]

WHat did HSS CEO say Hamza?

[Hamza]

@Hamza please take another opinion or two if you feel the need to do so, there is no harm in it but you dont need to travel to do so as this can be done simply via emails. Although i think you are on the right track but only thing i will suggest is that you can do this surgery relatively cheaper with a good orthopedic surgeon in europe who specializes in lower limb deformities rather than going to someone like betz (who i still believe is an excellent surgeon) as i think both him and guchiet are not very ethical surgeons and charge too much as they are used to doing CLL, hence their prices are very high.

IMO it should not cost you more than 10-12K euros to get it done with a respectable surgeon in one of the EU countries.

Infinity,

I emailed Dr Betz yest. and asked about acute lengthening of 1 cm if it does result in nerve damage he said definitely it wont.
I emailed yest. another Dr in Europe and i am waiting his answer (third opinion).

I agree with u that with normal orthopedic surgeon the cost will be less but dont u think that it is safer to go for this small correction with doctors that are specialized and have a lot of experience in limb lengthening ? specially because i already inserted a nail and now i need to exchange it so these Dr s deal with a lot with similar cases ... what do u think ?

[Infinity]

Infinity,

I emailed Dr Betz yest. and asked about acute lengthening of 1 cm if it does result in nerve damage he said definitely it wont.
I emailed yest. another Dr in Europe and i am waiting his answer (third opinion).

I agree with u that with normal orthopedic surgeon the cost will be less but dont u think that it is safer to go for this small correction with doctors that are specialized and have a lot of experience in limb lengthening ? specially because i already inserted a nail and now i need to exchange it so these Dr s deal with a lot with similar cases ... what do u think ?

@Hamza
The danger of nerve damage or problems normally start after 3-4 cm mark and as i understand it 1 cm (even if it was done all togather) does not pose any danger to nerve or ligament damage. At worst it will just makes you uncomfortable for few days.

Please understand that CLL surgeons are not better than deformity/correction surgeons, they just have more experience delaing with bilateral Cosmetic LL cases. In your case its not bilateral lengthening and its definitely not CLL, in my opinion yours is a straight forward case LL discrepancy correction which can and should be corrected with acute lengthening and than nailing allowing you to get on with your life. This can be done by ANY respectable experienced lower limb deformity correction surgeon even in your home country. Here the key is to look for surgeon who is experienced in lower limb correction surgeries.

This is not a medical advice as i am not qualified to do so and the decision is yours as its your money and legs. Do what you feel most comfortable with.

Good Luck.

[Hamza]

@Hamza
The danger of nerve damage or problems normally start after 3-4 cm mark and as i understand it 1 cm (even if it was done all togather) does not pose any danger to nerve or ligament damage. At worst it will just makes you uncomfortable for few days.

Please understand that CLL surgeons are not better than deformity/correction surgeons, they just have more experience delaing with bilateral Cosmetic LL cases. In your case its not bilateral lengthening and its definitely not CLL, in my opinion yours is a straight forward case LL discrepancy correction which can and should be corrected with acute lengthening and than nailing allowing you to get on with your life. This can be done by ANY respectable experienced lower limb deformity correction surgeon even in your home country. Here the key is to look for surgeon who is experienced in lower limb correction surgeries.

This is not a medical advice as i am not qualified to do so and the decision is yours as its your money and legs. Do what you feel most comfortable with.

Good Luck.