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[Siegfried]

Sorry to hear that. I thought the fibula is not supposed to grow back? Since it’s basically a non essential bone.

[balme]

why you just don't give details about your journey? it's literally being selfish. you can help others perspective with no effort, but you are choosing to keep as secret, for no reason whatsoever.

please, consider sharing your knowledge&experience with us, with details.

[zakika]

Sorry to hear that. I thought the fibula is not supposed to grow back? Since it’s basically a non essential bone.

For ankle stability it is important and bares approximately 20% of the full body weight, to survive i is not essential, to run, jog etc it is important.

[zakika]

I shared all the details in the post, my last one is a recap, I wrote all the essential infos in it, read back.

[thankscience]

Would you say your journey has been worse than other patients in Greece?

[zakika]

Would you say your journey has been worse than other patients in Greece?

I wouldn't compare myself to other patients in terms of general "experience", only would like to call attention of the difficulty of the process (however I know 2 patients of Giotikas, 1 guy with femur Stryde and another with externals as well, who had complications and suffered more than I did, one of them wrote a diary as well on this forum).

When I started I was also very enthusiastic and ecstatic about the journey, but at the end of the day all comes down to your body's own healing potential and the experience/careful guidance of the surgical- and physio team. Overall the experience wasn't as good as I was expecting even considering the pre-realized difficulty of such an intervention, my complication should've been handled better, not to to mention the physio sessions (that was included in the price excluding the transfer), that some members here already described about Athens. The physiotherapy isn't really professional compared to the States eg. I was talking with the physiotherapists there, all kind caring people but the professional background wasn't established. I know it sounds negative, but talking from real experience. It is better to know beforehand than to be surprised there. The saying fits this experience as well: "You get, what you pay for."  It was a decent price but you have to know that the consequences are far greater than of a dental procedure.

[TheDream]

It is interesting with the fibula.
I never understood why LL doctors aren’t more concerned about it than they are when lengthening tibias.

As in, from what I understand, the tibia is “locked into position” both with external and internal lengthening, but the fibula seems to be more “left to itself” when tibia lengthening is done.

As the fibula is also bent at an angle (i.e. not as straight as the tibia) I have always had the impression that the probability of a mal union happening there is very high. Maybe there is something I have not completely understood because how would doctors be okay with tibia lengthening >3 cm if this was the case?

[zakika]

It is interesting with the fibula.
I never understood why LL doctors aren’t more concerned about it than they are when lengthening tibias.

As in, from what I understand, the tibia is “locked into position” both with external and internal lengthening, but the fibula seems to be more “left to itself” when tibia lengthening is done.

As the fibula is also bent at an angle (i.e. not as straight as the tibia) I have always had the impression that the probability of a mal union happening there is very high. Maybe there is something I have not completely understood because how would doctors be okay with tibia lengthening >3 cm if this was the case?

Exactly, after it happened I was researching a bit more, Paley has a very informative presentation about the importance of paying attention to fibula migration, and how to prevent it. As I've heard Giotikas started to fixate the bones a lot more carefully together after me.

[balme]

so how was your gait, through the years up and down? you couldn't walk until you fix the mal-union or how exactly your personal life affected all those surgeries, if you chronologically say that?

[boklecrt]

sorry to hear about your fibula issue

in the past doctors didnt mind the fibula all that much until a bunch of complications arose from not taking care of it

internal nail methods usually just drill a screw through the fibula into the tibia near the ankle to keep it moving together as you lengthen, while on external method you could do that or pass one of the pins through it(like what my doctor did to me)

my frames were affixed near the ankle with 2 pins, 1 of which passed through both fibula and tibia therefore making sure they move together and are kept stable


i looked into the thread for your xrays but couldnt find xrays which show the ankle portion of your legs in order to see if Giotikas drilled a screw in there, did he do that?

whats to be done about your fibula now? bone graft from hip maybe?

[zakika]

sorry to hear about your fibula issue

in the past doctors didnt mind the fibula all that much until a bunch of complications arose from not taking care of it

internal nail methods usually just drill a screw through the fibula into the tibia near the ankle to keep it moving together as you lengthen, while on external method you could do that or pass one of the pins through it(like what my doctor did to me)

my frames were affixed near the ankle with 2 pins, 1 of which passed through both fibula and tibia therefore making sure they move together and are kept stable


i looked into the thread for your xrays but couldnt find xrays which show the ankle portion of your legs in order to see if Giotikas drilled a screw in there, did he do that?

whats to be done about your fibula now? bone graft from hip maybe?

Thx for the comprehensive response, there were pins throught he bones (only the slim ones, which are in many cases not stable enough), and he didn't fixate the fibula with an additional screw (as far as I knew he should've been), with the lengthening the fibula migrated "up, and he waited all along the distraction phase and operated on the fibula with the removal of the frames together, so he broke the fibula again basically, and pulled it apart. After that it didn't seem to solve the issue, there was constant pain and the x-rays showed that the lateral malleolus of the fibula is still too proximal/close to the the knee so another year passed and he operated on the left ankle again put a huge plate in to stabilize the bone (I've just looked back on the photo the incision site was like 12 cm long...) the result now is:

that I cannot flex the left ankle properly and have a slight "collapsed" feeling in the ankle (I'll have to do an x-ray again I guess and start analyzing the bones again) when I'm trying to jog the left ankle can't hold my leg and feels like I hit the ground with full weight the left leg compared to the right. Additionally to functions there is a real chance of early ankle osteoarthritis which I wanted to prevent with the operation(s). I won't need bone graft, as the bone healed, my issue is the function, and to prevent further issues, will have to think about it carefully.

[SpeedDialer]

For ankle stability it is important and bares approximately 20% of the full body weight, to survive i is not essential, to run, jog etc it is important.

What meals did you like at the Montaza hotel? Tried the plain pizza and meatball/fries so far, just trying to avoid nuts, seeds, peanuts, sheLL Forumish b/c of allergies

[FreedomFighter]

Would you mind to share the link of Dr Paley’s presentation? Thanks a lot

[Japan_Man_NYC]

Based on the X-ray you lengthened with Ilzarov method. Why wasn't there any internal nails in your tibia? wtf Dr. Giotikas

I aware that this post was made in 2019. But no internal nails to direct bone growth is insane. And that leads to mal-union.

[Japan_Man_NYC]

I wouldn't compare myself to other patients in terms of general "experience", only would like to call attention of the difficulty of the process (however I know 2 patients of Giotikas, 1 guy with femur Stryde and another with externals as well, who had complications and suffered more than I did, one of them wrote a diary as well on this forum).

When I started I was also very enthusiastic and ecstatic about the journey, but at the end of the day all comes down to your body's own healing potential and the experience/careful guidance of the surgical- and physio team. Overall the experience wasn't as good as I was expecting even considering the pre-realized difficulty of such an intervention, my complication should've been handled better, not to to mention the physio sessions (that was included in the price excluding the transfer), that some members here already described about Athens. The physiotherapy isn't really professional compared to the States eg. I was talking with the physiotherapists there, all kind caring people but the professional background wasn't established. I know it sounds negative, but talking from real experience. It is better to know beforehand than to be surprised there. The saying fits this experience as well: "You get, what you pay for."  It was a decent price but you have to know that the consequences are far greater than of a dental procedure.

Was considering Dr. Giotikas bc of price. Now it's sus.

I would put Dr. Giotikas in C tier.

[Bagga]

Based on the X-ray you lengthened with Ilzarov method. Why wasn't there any internal nails in your tibia? wtf Dr. Giotikas

I aware that this post was made in 2019. But no internal nails to direct bone growth is insane. And that leads to mal-union.

does it mean internal nail like Precice will not have such issue?

[Japan_Man_NYC]

Hi all, long time. I just wanted to give an update. So after the appr. 5,6 external tibia I had a mal-union in my left fibula that was operated on twice (it was an obvious fkup looking back, they should've recognized the case earlier, and after it happened not to wait until the end of the lengthening to fixate the bones) and now trying to figure out how to proceed, because I'm not able to jog normally even after 2 years

And 1 important message: don not get hung up on the sales pitches these surgeons are selling to you. This surgery is extremely demanding and dangerous, if you have the option, money, I beg you, go to the States, or spare more money (which is still difficult, but surgeons there are more experienced, at least Paley is).

Good luck to everyone!

Thank you for your input. Based on this I would put Dr. Giotikas in D tier. And steer clear.

A surgeon ability to foresee complications before they happen is crucial for this extreme surgery.

I have messaged and emailed Dr. Giotikas and his team about the procedure. His team's response time or lack of is also a cause for concern

[Rockstarz5]

   
    You did tibia and femur (stryde) thats a rare combination due stryde is for  full weight and the other is not, thats a shame about your tibia, how is your femur experience after all, thinking in Giotikas but still nor sure, where in US you go pal?