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[Metaller]

Hello everyone!  I am new to this forum. Have been reading alot of the cases here, and I try to learn as much as possible about LL before I get my operation. I need more money, and schedule alot of things in my life before I can take the operation. I would guess I can get it done in 2016.

To my question:

What is the safest way to operate to avoid problems like ballerinafoot, duck-ass and X-legs - Which method, and what part of my leg (Internall,external? femus/tiberia? and so on...)  I am "only" planning to stretch about 2 inches/5CM (please consider this before answear what method is most safe) because I dont want anyone to know I've had the operation. I live in a small town with alot of bigmouths. My height now is 176CM. And I would like to just pass 180CM. Age around 30 year.
And at what time can I expect to get back to my normal life? Me being close to average high and "only" doing 5 cm - is a good thing as I have understood it. Would I be able to walk normaly after 6 months?

English is not my first language - sorry for bad spelling and grammars!

Thank you for your time, your answears and your kindness.

regards from Metaller

[kunta kinte]

Hi Metaller, welcome to the forum. The first thing you should do is measure your tibia and femur, that will give you a rough idea what to lengthen. What is your armspan?

[Metaller]

I am not sure if I managed to measure 100% correct, but my femur was around 38 CM +/- and my tibia was around 34 CM +/-. armspan I am not sure about, have never measured it before, and dont think I can manage alone. But I think my arm length is pretty normal to my height. maybe a tiny bit longer in average compared to my height.


Thank you for your answear

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Internal/external, femur/tibia doesn't really matter in terms of safety.  If you go to a good doctor and don't lengthen a lot (which you're not planning to), the risk of the problems you mentioned isn't very high.

Based on my experience with Ilizarov/LON/tibiae, I don't think you'll be completely back to normal within 6 months, probably more like 8-9 months. Maybe some of our other patients who lengthened with different methods can tell you about how long it took them to recover.

[Metaller]

Hello Medium, and thank you for your answear. Do you think there will come a new and better/safer way in two years? I thought lenghtening femur would be safer, dont know why or where I got that impression (What about the safety considering skin, muscles, nerves, tendons - Do you think there is a difference here?). Internal will be better considering scars, right? Do you know how big the wounds will be regarding the different ways to do the operation? I am planning to go to a doctor who is "famous" in doing good jobs. I am not a wealthy man, but saving a few years will make this possible for me. I would rather save money for two years than doing it now with a sloppy doctor for a lot cheaper price.

Hoping for some inputs from others also, who can give me an answear to this and my last posts.


Regards Metaller

[Metanoia]

Hello Medium, and thank you for your answear. Do you think there will come a new and better/safer way in two years? I thought lenghtening femur would be safer, dont know why or where I got that impression (What about the safety considering skin, muscles, nerves, tendons - Do you think there is a difference here?). Internal will be better considering scars, right? Do you know how big the wounds will be regarding the different ways to do the operation? I am planning to go to a doctor who is "famous" in doing good jobs. I am not a wealthy man, but saving a few years will make this possible for me. I would rather save money for two years than doing it now with a sloppy doctor for a lot cheaper price.

Hoping for some inputs from others also, who can give me an answear to this and my last posts.


Regards Metaller

Hi,

from my personal experience i can assure you that internals are more risky than externals. And i can also tell you that a high price is no indication that the doctor is good. I e.g. went to Dr. Betz and can assure you he is one of the worst doctors out there.
The safest is still external tibia lengthening.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Yeah, that's something to consider.  If an external device malfunctions, it's easy and cheap to fix without additional surgery.

[programdude]

From what I've seen internal femurs are very low complication. Have seen patients come and go with no issues. Internal tibia on the other hand is disaster.

[Metaller]

Ok,

Did you have Internal femurs or tibia? Mime?

[Metaller]

Ok, do you know what type of operation they had with internal on femur? Fitbone?

The reason I want internal most is because I am afraid of the scars, and that the wounds wont grow good. - do you know how big the wounds will be?

With my femurs being 38cm and my tibur being 34cm - anyone have a comment on what bone I should operate, considering my propotions?

[SpiderProwler]

From what I've seen internal femurs are very low complication. Have seen patients come and go with no issues. Internal tibia on the other hand is disaster.

Even with Paley? Supposedly his way of inserting the nail avoids future knee problems.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Paley doesn't have a special way of inserting the nail.  He splits the patellar tendon like everyone else.

[SpiderProwler]

Paley doesn't have a special way of inserting the nail.  He splits the patellar tendon like everyone else.

I believe he was asked about the higher chance of knee problems with internal tibias in one of these forum interviews, and he said his patients don't have knee problems due to his less disruptive way of inserting which is more in the posterior part of the knee, avoiding the center of the tendon. Too lazy to dig it up.

[programdude]

Even with Paley? Supposedly his way of inserting the nail avoids future knee problems.

I can't speak about knee pain, though I know someone who just finished lengthening and is experiencing it, though maybe it will fade.

I also know of three people here with Paley, one personally, who had screws come out of tibia. One was male too.

The female I know personally between the complications, accommodations, bone growth aids like exogen and others has probably spent 160-180k just for tibias.

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

160-180 THOUSAND $ !!! ........... dam! 

how come so much, that is like a house!

[BilateralDamage]

160-180 THOUSAND $ !!! ........... dam! 

how come so much, that is like a house!

The sad part is that these patients have no other option but to fork over the cash to get repaired.  So while you might get a cost estimate of ~100K to go with Paley, this does not factor in potential (and expensive) complications that may happen.

[programdude]

160-180 THOUSAND $ !!! ........... dam! 

how come so much, that is like a house!

Yup and that may be conservative, I wasn't looking to be rude or make her feel bad when she mentioned having the screws come out, but seeing as Paley was demanding 25k from my friend from hong kong just for an ITB release, who knows what he charged her.

For femurs yeah I think Paley and internal is the way to go, but I would never do tibias this way, complications seem common and as Billateral says you have no choice but to pay up if something happens. Unless you have no upper limit of your budget tibias seem like russian roulette, and we are already talking about a pretty crazy surgery.

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

if complications are not covered. then choose a different doctor.

complications not being covered is a deal breaker for me. it is unacceptable.

especially in America where the prices are just plain rip offs to start with because of corrupt insurance scheme's which are written by the insurance companies to deliberately drive up the costs to overinflated prices.

just look at Obama care, it was written by the insurance companies (10,000 pages if you include amendments) it was written to benefit the insurance agencies, not the people.

sorry for going off into a jag, but LL in America is not worth it, we are talking perhaps something that should only cost 5-15k being turned into the price of a house. we all know the surgery does not cost this much. it should be criminal to do this to people in my opinion. but hell its not just for LL it is for all medical care in America. it is truly disgusting.

[Overdozer]

Yeah that's why I say internal tibias are not the best idea. Externals on tibias aren't really that uncomfortable and just require proper pin care... They're much more stable and weight bearing, you can fix deformities with them and they cost nothing, distraction is also very easy and patient-friendly. You can install them for just 3000$ and if anything is going to break, it's just a pin which costs nothing and is easily replaced. And let's not talk about 70% chance of developing permament knee pain. For a little temporary comfort is it really worth it?

I paid just 3000$ for the surgery with exfix included and I'm confident to say, that I'll get better results overall, than someone who paid 180000$ for internals.

[programdude]

I will never endorse internal tibias. Sure I've met someone who had a fine time, though they did only an inch, but the other cases have been horrible. That being said externals also never appealed to me so internal femurs were really the only way to go for me.

[SpiderProwler]

I will never endorse internal tibias. Sure I've met someone who had a fine time, though they did only an inch, but the other cases have been horrible. That being said externals also never appealed to me so internal femurs were really the only way to go for me.

Ok but I'm also aiming for quadrilateral with Paley for 10-11 cm. So I would only aim for 4-5 cm on Tibias. Surely that would dramatically reduce chances of complications?

[programdude]

Not at all- the topic of knee pain I can't be sure about, but that would have nothing to do with lengthening amount. 5 cm on tibias isn't "only", the female I know who had screws come out did that total, and had the screws come out very early on.

Operating on tibias at all invites disaster. If you are doing quadrilateral clearly you have money, but just know what you are getting into.

[SpiderProwler]

Not at all- the topic of knee pain I can't be sure about, but that would have nothing to do with lengthening amount. 5 cm on tibias isn't "only", the female I know who had screws come out did that total, and had the screws come out very early on.

Operating on tibias at all invites disaster. If you are doing quadrilateral clearly you have money, but just know what you are getting into.

Ok I get what you're saying complication wise. But based on Sweatpants' diary and what Agrios from old forum  said about tibia lengtheners, tibia with Precise seems to be less painful and less interfering of sleep that femurs.

It also seems up me that females get more complications in general from LL, possibly due to smaller bones and less pain tolerance.

[programdude]

Sleep shouldn't be your ultimate concern. yes if you read my diary sleep is the worst aspect of this for me, but the reason to shy away from tibia is A. potential issues that will require further surgeries/damage to your body as well as gigantic price tags. B. Permanent knee pain.

[SpiderProwler]

Sleep shouldn't be your ultimate concern. yes if you read my diary sleep is the worst aspect of this for me, but the reason to shy away from tibia is A. potential issues that will require further surgeries/damage to your body as well as gigantic price tags. B. Permanent knee pain.

Ya...it's just I'm very set on quadrilateral especially seeing diaries like yours where even 8 cm is not guaranteed with femurs due to either tightness or the lengthener realizing he will not be happy with his femur/tibia proportions. I do have some money to spare and I put a lot of trust in Paley's word that the way he performs surgery has less of a risk of permanent knee pain. Also, Sweatpants did not seem to have issues with her tibias but rather her femurs.

I appreciate your feedback but I think you'd agree that if I were to go for quadrilateral, Paley is the doctor that gives me the best chances of success.

[programdude]

I dont disagree, but inherently tibias invite disaster, so I just want you to be prepared for what could easily happen. Sweatpants had screws come out of her tibias btw. Her, my friend, and a male my friend knows had screws come out of tibias.

Yes you have lower chances of complications since you are male, especially with your femurs- but you are totally at the mercy of luck and you are doing both so have twice the odds of something going wrong somehow. I don't want to be a downer, just want you to be well informed.

[SpiderProwler]

I dont disagree, but inherently tibias invite disaster, so I just want you to be prepared for what could easily happen. Sweatpants had screws come out of her tibias btw. Her, my friend, and a male my friend knows had screws come out of tibias.

Yes you have lower chances of complications since you are male, especially with your femurs- but you are totally at the mercy of luck and you are doing both so have twice the odds of something going wrong somehow. I don't want to be a downer, just want you to be well informed.

I agree the whole thing is a bit of a crapshoot, but being 6'0 even were I to undergo complications is much more tolerable than staying 5'8 complication free. I guess that's why I'm doing this extreme procedure in the first place.

[programdude]

man honestly if you are 5 8 just do what I'm doing 7-7.5 cm. You will be 5 11 with way less complication risk and perfectly fine proportions. Even the 5 3 guys who do 7 CM I've seen look fine.

You will save so much money, less scars, less trauma, easier experience, less risk of further complications which may save you more money and trauma.

The one con is one inch less of height.

[SpiderProwler]

man honestly if you are 5 8 just do what I'm doing 7-7.5 cm. You will be 5 11 with way less complication risk and perfectly fine proportions. Even the 5 3 guys who do 7 CM I've seen look fine.

You will save so much money, less scars, less trauma, easier experience, less risk of further complications which may save you more money and trauma.

The one con is one inch less of height.

The thing is that I'm really into online dating and I like tall girls as well. The difference between 5'10.75 and 6' is fairly significant in this regard.

[programdude]

Online dating is my life blood, swiping right on tinders probably the thing my thumbs done the most. I have gotten away with murder and dated girls as tall as 6 3 at slightly less than 5 8. I refuse to believe that the one inch is worth all the sacrifices and risks. That money could be better spent buying many sets of slightly elevated elevator shoes, and a lifetime supply of alcohol for your private dalliances.

[SpiderProwler]

Online dating is my life blood, swiping right on tinders probably the thing my thumbs done the most. I have gotten away with murder and dated girls as tall as 6 3 at slightly less than 5 8. I refuse to believe that the one inch is worth all the sacrifices and risks. That money could be better spent buying many sets of slightly elevated elevator shoes, and a lifetime supply of alcohol for your private dalliances.

Lol I guess, but money is not really an issue for me. I'd rather get a really satisfying height gain.