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[patientprivacy]

What is the minimum increase in height for it to be noticeable to normal people (not forum or height-obsessed people)? When do people start making comments about your height change?

I think 5-6-7 cm are noticeable for some people, but not for everybody. Most people don't know LL exist and, when they see your final result, they think you've lost weight, without much further thinking. 

What about 10-11 cm? Would it become obvious then to everybody that you are taller, to the point that they would investigate about the existence of a procedure to become taller? And if the patient who increased 10 cm wore lifts or heels before that enormous height increase, would people around that patient notice, even if he/she stopped wearing lifts/heels after his/her LL?

[Johnson1111]

Completely subjective

[Android]

If they are near your height, they'll notice even at 5 cm. You could attribute it to shoes at this level. Double digits, you'll get more questions no doubt.

The taller they are the less they'll notice. Some are much more observant than others, so as already pointed out, it's quite subjective.

[OverrideYourGenetics]

For females, not even 4" (10cm) would be noticeable, since women can easily wear 4"-5" heels.

For men, it depends, as Android explained.

But I'd like to suggest asking a deeper question - why do you want to hide that you've had LL, as your post and username suggest?

I've asked several fellow patients this question, and haven't gotten any convincing answers. I've also asked it here on the forum, in a more extreme form - going public in order to fundraise. Skip that part. Actually being honest with people who ask or notice has never struck me as a problem. I've already told all my friends and had a farewell party. If you tell the truth and they judge you - great! You'll quickly learn they aren't a person you want to spend time with - something that otherwise may take months or years (in the case of a partner, for example; I completely can't fathom why some female patients are actively hiding what they're doing from prospective dates they're considering for marriage and are stringing along online).

If I were to notice your height increase and learned about the astounding level of effort and endurance it entailed, I'd want to get to know you and perhaps become your friend. Such humans are rare. (That does suggest that it does matter how you frame your CLL journey and the reasons for doing it. Here are mine. I did also learn of reasons such as "I want to be taller when I have kids" (5'1" -> 5'6" Asian female - I don't get it))

[th]

the issue is obvious - most people who contemplate/go through with this surgery are suffering from  a psychological/mental disorder in which they feel their height is THE issue preventing them from living a purposeful live and feeling whole etc - as you say 'such humans are rare.'

Exactly - this affects a small proportion of the population.

A relatively healthy person would be aware that revealing a 'voluntary leg-breaking for a few centimetres' journey is not a source of admiration or inspiration - but rather a red flag drawing attention to an individual's mental disorder and related issues - there are plenty of other ways to make friends!!!...

[myloginacc]

the issue is obvious - most people who contemplate/go through with this surgery are suffering from  a psychological/mental disorder in which they feel their height is THE issue preventing them from living a purposeful live and feeling whole etc - as you say 'such humans are rare.'

Exactly - this affects a small proportion of the population.

A relatively healthy person would be aware that revealing a 'voluntary leg-breaking for a few centimetres' journey is not a source of admiration or inspiration - but rather a red flag drawing attention to an individual's mental disorder and related issues - there are plenty of other ways to make friends!!!...

Haha, you're going to make me quote Johnson and keep this loop going.

This is completely subjective.

revealing a 'voluntary leg-breaking for a few centimetres' journey is not a source of admiration or inspiration - but rather a red flag drawing attention to an individual's mental disorder and related issues

If you're 183cm/6 feet man and you just did 7cm on your tibias, then proudly announced it, describing what the process entails to people around you? Then yeah, a lot people would see exactly you in that light. A lunatic. 

If you're an actually short man, subject to jokes and comments you never wanted to hear you whole life, having had trouble in finding a partner if you're not special in some other way (e.g. successful), and you didn't lengthen your legs until you looked like a freak, then people are going to be more understandable.

You know, that was the reason orthopedic surgeons used to have height thresholds and only did LL for men on the bottom percentiles of height.

And at the end of the day, it's still like OYG's said. The people who aren't understandable don't really matter in your life. Most LLers were short people dedicating so much of their time and money to escape a life of hearing those jokes, among other things. Unlike weight, which anyone can do anything about, we only have the pretty medieval distraction osteogenesis for height at the present moment. Yet, despite it being obviously unhealthy, no one "cracks jokes" about obese people in public, to their faces - at least after high school. When those obese people finally get a grip, worry about their health, and lose all that weight, they receive nothing but support and posts reaching to the top of sites like imgur. I sound bitter about it, but I'm just pointing the double-standards. If anyone was obese before and they're healthy now? I agree with rest of everyone else on those sites: great job. Looking better now. You did it. Congratulations.

And obviously losing weight and one year of distraction osteogenesis aren't comparable. One is simplistic and good for you, and the other is barbaric, has lasting consequences. That is not my point if anyone got that from the reading the sentence up above (equating losing weight to LL). The point is that people are respectful of some legitimately medically worrying conditions in other people (that they can do something about), but feel free to denigrate, emasculate, defeminize women and men alike who fall on certain percentiles of height - something which they never had any control over their whole lives. I'm also not trying to imply people should start being as disrespectful towards overweight and obese people are they are men who are too short, or women who are too tall/much too short. Just the opposite, actually. Give them the same respect you give to these other people. However, that attitude doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon.

And for a perspective from the other side of the spectrum: Olivia Jones is a German drag queen. She was something like 207cm and did limb shortening to 200cm. There was no furor in the media at all questioning her mental sanity. Her whole operation stayed as mere side notes in articles about all her political activism (BBC link).

Everyone knows being too tall as a woman, and too short as a man, are both considered unfeminine and unmasculine, respectively.

The real problem are all the average-height-for-a-white-male men registering here because they're actually believing in those 6 feet memes they read online. That they can't get girlfriends if they don't break their bones in Russia or India for a year...

[myloginacc]

As for my actual answer to the thread, I believe others already covered it:

If they are near your height, they'll notice even at 5 cm. You could attribute it to shoes at this level. Double digits, you'll get more questions no doubt.

The taller they are the less they'll notice. Some are much more observant than others, so as already pointed out, it's quite subjective.

Besides the shoes part, you could add having corrected your posture at a 5cm increase. At 5cm, there are also a bunch of medically (sounding) sound lies you could use for all the laymen around you, if you really wanted to go through that route.

[Great321]

Once when I was in school a couple years ago I wore 2cm lifts + shoes with 2cm soles and a girl asked me in suprise if I grew. (She was about the same height as me)

I'm sure anyone who was slightly taller than you or the same height will notice the increase (if you're the same height as them or taller than them after LL). But according to several experiences of LLers no one said something.

I am 1,60m, I might not notice if a 1,65m guy is 1,70m months later because I normally don't compare myself to other guys as I'm not interested in them, rather to girls.

[Body Builder]

5cm for most of people make a diffefence, esoecially if you were not too ahort to begin with.

From 7-8 cm and more the difference is big and obvious to all.

[RaaX]

I believe it is bad proportions that make people think you have done something to your body
To keep proportions, measure your torso length, long legs short torso is not attractive
This guy did 8cm and looks extremely lanky



Keep it at 6cm


As for your close friends to notice you have gained hesight, i’d say 4cm is when they start noticing because when you wear lift shoes which are usually 4cm, they immediately notice the height gain.


As for revealing to others that you had some procedures done
That would be a big mistake
Normies feel disgusted by this because they feel cheated or something

Even something as minor as a rhinoplasty puts them off

I once talked about roids at my work and how I wanted to use them, all my co workers accused me of roiding even tho I was natty back then, the appreciation I got for my muscles and size faded away in an instant because they thought I cheated


I learnt never to share extreme opinions with normies if you want to fit in with the society

[justaveragedude]

Look at Henry Cavill's short hands
Does that stops him from being Superman? Does that stops him for being worldwide sxx symbol for a LOT of women? Does that stops him from being successful guy? Who the fk will come to you and tell you at your face ''Your arms look very short bet you had CLL!''??

[th]

myloginacc - you say it is not an issue who knows that you had ll and that it doesn't matter who you tell - and yet claim that a person is subjected to comments and jokes against them for their height and this is a reason why it should be deemed to be acceptable - which suggests that you do care! - which is it??

if you think throwing a 'farewell leg-lenghtening party' and attempting to crowd-fund the procedure is indicative of positive mental health then say so...

the weight comparison is not an accurate analogy - one chooses to eat and put on weight but one cannot naturally add height - losing weight would have obvious physical and mental well-being benefits - you don't stick cushions under your clothes to make yourself appear fatter - compared to the perfectly understandable waering of lifts in shoes!!

surgeons have/had a limit on height because they are aware (through research) that the phsychological issue for the individual is NOT in any way exclusively to do with their height eg BDD/other diagnosis - indeed ll is barred in many countries and only undertaken in exchange for money - height surgery can only lesson the neurosis, not cure it...

nor is leg-lengthening barbaric - many patients confirm it is not at all as bad as they thought or as it sounds - doctor, attitude, commitment, motivation etc are key...

ironically those advocating telling everyone make their comments anonymously!! 

people with mental health disorders are not 'lunatics'
it is not possible for something to be 'completely subjective' - (it is either subjective or not)
you don't need to quote 'johnson' or anyone to make your point

the forum has become toxic and misinformed in recent years - future ll's need informed debate in order to make their correct decisions etc...

[myloginacc]

Look at Henry Cavill's short hands
Does that stops him from being Superman? Does that stops him for being worldwide sxx symbol for a LOT of women? Does that stops him from being successful guy? Who the fk will come to you and tell you at your face ''Your arms look very short bet you had CLL!''??

The guy is mostly all legs. Much like Conan O'Brien. People come in all shapes and sizes, etc, and body proportions vary by ancestry.

With that said, I find absolutely ridiculous when men who are of more average heights want to lengthen 13cm at the least.

So many here act like this is a nosejob and not a bunch of procedures full of risks. Being taller than the shortest members here is a luxury that affords you the advantage of being able to lengthen less... for your own health on the long term, and proportions in the short term.

[myloginacc]

myloginacc - you say it is not an issue who knows that you had ll and that it doesn't matter who you tell - and yet claim that a person is subjected to comments and jokes against them for their height and this is a reason why it should be deemed to be acceptable - which suggests that you do care! - which is it??

I can't understand the point you're trying to make here at all.

you say it is not an issue who knows that you had ll and that it doesn't matter who you tell

I started my post with the example of a 6 feet man who'd be considered a lunatic by a lot of people if he proudly announced he broke his bones, risked multiple forms of embolism, and hampered his athletic ability (in addition to increasing his chances of developing arthritis) to gain 7cm on his tibias. So what you're claiming I said is wrong.

Then I used the example of a very short man to show the nuance of this situation.

the weight comparison is not an accurate analogy - one chooses to eat and put on weight but one cannot naturally add height - losing weight would have obvious physical and mental well-being benefits - you don't stick cushions under your clothes to make yourself appear fatter - compared to the perfectly understandable waering of lifts in shoes!!

Uh? Explain what you meant too?

it is not possible for something to be 'completely subjective' - (it is either subjective or not)

This is called a figure of speech: a hyperbole. Literally nobody uses "literally" correctly anymore. Oh, wait, that's technically wrong. Some do use it correctly. Pedantic.

As for the rest of your post, I can't make any sense of it due to your grammar and punctuation. I'm not a native English speaker.

[th]

it's ok - i'll let others read said posts...

[myloginacc]

Fine by me.

I'm pretty certain I'm not the one lacking in reading comprehension here - although I did try to ascertain it.

[th]

have you had LL?

[th]

i ask again - myloginacc have you had leg-lengthening surgery?...

[OverrideYourGenetics]

i ask again - myloginacc have you had leg-lengthening surgery?...

I bet that if he had, we'd see a comprehensive diary with lots of useful information (written in cogent English), and a link to it in his signature.

[th]

what relevance is it if you conjecture about a diary on a forum? why are you answering for him/her?

my word - there you are - it seems that myloginacc has not has ll surgery yet feels it it appropriate to come on to such a forum and pontificate about this procedure and attempt to offer informed advice - a teetotaller offering a chronic alcoholic advice!!

you don't know what it is like to work solid for two years - to book a flight to a foreign country, stay a couple of days in a hotel while you attend a clinic for tests, to shave your legs the morning of surgery, to sign a disclaimer before the anaesthetist slips a huge needle into your spine to numb and disable your legs so you cannot even feel whether you can lift them or not, to try to stay calm while you hear drilling and hammer noises around your legs and see blood spurting, to lie there for three hours thinking 'well this is it...' to put ALL your faith in a doctor who barely know, to be wheeled back to your bed with tightly-sprung cages gripping your tibias, to be unable to barely move with pain and discomfort for the first few days, to think while you're attempting to move cm by cm to the toilet 'what have I done?' , to feel and see progress after a while that you are finally resolving a height issue that impacted on a person's life for twenty years, twenty years of attempting to battle and hide a condition that makes living a reasonable, purposeful, fruitful life impossible, to run away from the good things in life, girlfriends, career, jobs, family etc because it is impossible to enjoy the intimacy of life when you cannot stand in your socks with others present, to camoflauge the condition with substance abuse, to know you have 'something' wrong with you but have to keep it secret

to enjoy sports over the years as the pitch is the only place you feel alive and whole (and delay surgery on your legs for this reason)

the LL journey goes on for months which is a huge test of character etc - ups and downs come your way but you deal with this because you have faith that it is what you came here for and decide to enjoy the journey of getting taller and the consequent improvement in genuine mental health as you move towards becoming a stronger version of yourself and complete a process you have planned for years - you listen to the doctor because they are the experts...

then after finishing this journey to question what difference it really has made...

you don't know any of this - yet you come on here and attempt to make points about this procedure and argue about grammar

while others throw farewell parties and others troll and abuse...

i'll let others read these posts...


 

[myloginacc]

Wow, you felt the need to make 3 posts about it? I'm flattered.

Let me ask you instead: does an Oncologist need to have cancer to talk about it?

The Ilizarov apparatus has been in use since the 50s.

Distraction osteogenesis first gained worldwide fame when it was used to treat Valeriy Brumel, an Olympic high champion. He broke his tibia in a motorcycle accident, and had 20 unsuccessful operations trying to repair his non-union. Dr. Gavriil Ilizarov used distraction osteogenesis and successfully healed his non-union, and here we are.

We have literal hundreds, very likely thousands of medical papers published by academia all around the world regarding distraction osteogenesis. If you're not lazy, you can do research and look all of them up on your own - learning about the methods (including ones not really used anymore, like the Wagner method), the risks, the consequences and complications involved with it.

I deeply respect LL vets for all they went through and hold their opinions in higher regard than othxr forum members, but it is absolutely a fallacy to imply you cannot discuss a subject simply because you have not personally experienced or demonstrated it - granted you did study what you are talking about. Theoretical physics would not be respected as a field if that mentality was applied to it.

Also, if that's how you really think, I do feel bad for you. Haven't you undergone LL? No CLL doctors have ever undergone distraction osteogenesis themselves. Too bad you couldn't be operated and treated by a fellow forum member.

I'm also in no way claiming I have anything remotely comparable to the expertise of a medical doctor, before you attack that strawman too. I'm simply refuting your uncalled attacks on my posting. This is a free forum; people will post and discuss as they wish. Obviously, anything medically related that you do read online should be taken with a huge grain of salt. This is common sense.

I do believe there should be a block feature if you don't want to read any of my posts. Other than that, I don't know what else to say to your rants.

[myloginacc]

you don't know what it is like to work solid for two years - to book a flight to a foreign country, stay a couple of days in a hotel while you attend a clinic for tests, to shave your legs the morning of surgery, to sign a disclaimer before the anaesthetist slips a huge needle into your spine to numb and disable your legs so you cannot even feel whether you can lift them or not, to try to stay calm while you hear drilling and hammer noises around your legs and see blood spurting, to lie there for three hours thinking 'well this is it...' to put ALL your faith in a doctor who barely know, to be wheeled back to your bed with tightly-sprung cages gripping your tibias, to be unable to barely move with pain and discomfort for the first few days, to think while you're attempting to move cm by cm to the toilet 'what have I done?' , to feel and see progress after a while that you are finally resolving a height issue that impacted on a person's life for twenty years, twenty years of attempting to battle and hide a condition that makes living a reasonable, purposeful, fruitful life impossible, to run away from the good things in life, girlfriends, career, jobs, family etc because it is impossible to enjoy the intimacy of life when you cannot stand in your socks with others present, to camoflauge the condition with substance abuse, to know you have 'something' wrong with you but have to keep it secret

By the way, you also don't know shxt about my life. Those LL pains were all pains you chose to go through in your life - to get taller.

[th]

yet more false analogies - cancer, physicists etc - does not involve volunarilty breaking your bones - you now seem to be presenting your lack of knowledge as a virtue! (i'm only an internet poster, what do i know?)

anyone can have a view on ll but that is what it is - a misinformed view

you are not qualified to chastise someone who has been there and done it - you are unable to refute factual arguments and presented evidence and so atempt ad-hominen attacks, irrelevant criticism and name calling etc 'i feel bad for you' - it is irrelevant how you feel about me - this is a LL forum not a dating site 

i met so many people who simply talked about this but never went through with it - there is a limit to what anyone can say if they have not experienced LL...

[IwannaBeTaller]

anyone can have a view on ll but that is what it is - a misinformed view

Have you done LL? If not, you know exactly as much about it as anyone else who hasn't gone through LL according to your logic, so what sense does it even make for you to talk about it? Yeah, it involves "voluntarily breaking your bones", but after all, you haven't done it, so your view must be a "misinformed view" ?

What do you make of the people who have done LL and say it was a good decision to do it?

[th]

i don't think you are following this thread exchange - of course i have done LL - my previous posts would confirm this - i think i have posted seven times over four years (please check)...

i am more than happy with my decision and the results...

i have posted today in the hope that someone may get some identification with what i have written...

[Knik]

stupid question

[th]

wanna be taller - i thought mrlogin was bad!!...

[IwannaBeTaller]

What are the hell are you talking about?

[ramaka]

So many here act like this is a nosejob and not a bunch of procedures full of risks. Being taller than the shortest members here is a luxury that affords you the advantage of being able to lengthen less... for your own health on the long term, and proportions in the short term.

You’ve lost me here what do you mean they can lengthen less surly if they lengthen then either way they’ll still be going through a risky procedure

[Johnson1111]

You’ve lost me here what do you mean they can lengthen less surly if they lengthen then either way they’ll still be going through a risky procedure

Yeah but for someone taller they have to lengthen less than a smaller person needs to lengthen for the same goal.

if you lengthen less it is obviously less risky. That's what I think he's trying to say

[th]

totally red - see above!!...