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[Talljoe]

Hi Everyone,

I did some research and I am currently considering doing this surgery with either the Betzbone or Precise. However, I noticed that many people on this forum do not have a good opinion on Dr. Becker whilst others praise him a lot. In general, I can‘t see a reason for not using a full weightbearing nail, as it provides you with the opportunity to walk without crutches, or did I miss something? Feel free to enlighten me.

All the best
Joe

[heightiseverything]

Depends on your lengthening goals. Everything else is the same except weightbearing. Betzbone is also pricier.

[Body Builder]

Betzbone like all mechanical nails is an obsolete crap.

[Talljoe]

Can you maybe explain why?

[Body Builder]

Can you maybe explain why?

Because the lengthening procedure is barbaric and painful, they don't reverse and they are prone to accidental lengthening. Also they take longer for the bone to heal.

Even though they are full weight bearing they are no much forna good magnetic nail like precise 2.
If we have again a magnetic nail with full weight bearing capabilities then betzbone and all these albizia cr*ps will cease to exist. 

[I want 8,07 cm]

Precise Max is now available in the USA. In Europe it seems that it will be available in 2025, so the price difference would be huge. It is true that betzbone tend to accidentally click on it. Dr Becker says it in a video. I am going to see how a guy I met in Germany finishes his lengthening. And then I will draw my own conclusions. At the moment, in case anyone wants to take a look, I am thinking of going to South Africa with Dr. Birkholtz. Of all the ones I have seen, along with Paley and Lee, there is sure to be another one there. They are the best in this type of cosmetic procedures. In South Africa, the prices are relatively cheaper than those of American surgeons. It is advisable to be in South Africa during the entire lengthening process.

[Taller90]

Because the lengthening procedure is barbaric and painful, they don't reverse and they are prone to accidental lengthening. Also they take longer for the bone to heal.

Even though they are full weight bearing they are no much forna good magnetic nail like precise 2.
If we have again a magnetic nail with full weight bearing capabilities then betzbone and all these albizia cr*ps will cease to exist.

Have you done LL with Betzbone or where did you get those fake news? I can tell you from my own experience. That it was not barbaric painful, it does not take long for the bone to heal (in fact through the early mobilization my bone has healed very good), the accidental clicks are very rare (my two hand full clicks have all been my own fault). The main benefit of the Betzbzone is that it is weight bearing. If anytime precisemax came out it will be an equal good alternative. Until that there is no choice for precise although you just want to lengthened short amounts (3-5cm) in femur

[shawtleg]

I am going through this procedure with betzbone right now. I think it’s very good you are still mostly able to do your daily things. You are not that much restricted. I am now 1 1/2months in and just had one accidental click. Actually they can turn the nail back but by operation. But under normal conditions there shouldn’t be any need for that.

Because it’s weightbearing you can go like eat ice cream in the summer or drive with the car to somewhere. I mean you want be able to pick up heavy things but you are as near to normal as you possibly can I would say.

[Body Builder]

Have you done LL with Betzbone or where did you get those fake news? I can tell you from my own experience. That it was not barbaric painful, it does not take long for the bone to heal (in fact through the early mobilization my bone has healed very good), the accidental clicks are very rare (my two hand full clicks have all been my own fault). The main benefit of the Betzbzone is that it is weight bearing. If anytime precisemax came out it will be an equal good alternative. Until that there is no choice for precise although you just want to lengthened short amounts (3-5cm) in femur

I have an experience of more than 20 years in LL and I'vre read diaries and speak with hundreds of LLers, except from the fact I am a veteran myself.
Everything I wrote is true, many LLers weere ruined because the albizia lengthened on its own, also many had non union or very late consolidation due to this cr*p that needs to rebreak each time the bone to lengthen.

A full weight bearing magnetic nail will not be equal to betzbone but like comparing a new car with a wagon. But still some doctors like Becker and Guichet will use it because they can earn much more money by using a cheap obsolete nail compared to a new one and still charge the same.
Precise 2 is a much better nail although not weight bearing and most LLers lengthen 7-8cm, not 5 as you said, uding it.. Stryde or Max are so much better that there can't be even a comparison.

[Average]

Hi all,  I am a long time watcher…. And I had the BetzBone surgery in January 24 on my femurs. I finished lengthening in May, doing 7.2cm.   I can offer no other opinions on other methods.   My experience has been great, with Dr Becker , his team, the facilities and after care ( I only stayed one month under direct supervision). I am going back in Jan 25 with to do the Tibia for 5cm….. that speaks volumes about how I feel it went!    I am much older (decades) than vast majority here.  My bones are healing great, walking well without crutches since July. 

[I want 8,07 cm]

So far I'm only seeing good experiences. The nail seems to be working well. I'm 42 years old and I'm thinking of having it done in January with Dr Becker. But these diaries give me hope that everything will go well.

[Taller90]

I have an experience of more than 20 years in LL and I'vre read diaries and speak with hundreds of LLers, except from the fact I am a veteran myself.
Everything I wrote is true, many LLers weere ruined because the albizia lengthened on its own, also many had non union or very late consolidation due to this cr*p that needs to rebreak each time the bone to lengthen.

A full weight bearing magnetic nail will not be equal to betzbone but like comparing a new car with a wagon. But still some doctors like Becker and Guichet will use it because they can earn much more money by using a cheap obsolete nail compared to a new one and still charge the same.
Precise 2 is a much better nail although not weight bearing and most LLers lengthen 7-8cm, not 5 as you said, uding it.. Stryde or Max are so much better that there can't be even a comparison.

No offense but maybe things have changed in the last 20 years…. The academia is clear that early mobilization is key for the recovery and this is something what you only get with a weight bearing nail and gets even more important for longer lengthening amounts. It is also clear that a clean robust nail like the Betzbone has less risk for technical issues like the precise. I don’t say that this is likely but it can happen. It is true accidental clicks can happen but depend very much how good the nail sits in your bone. If the surgeon has done a good job you will not suffer from that much. On the other hand the betzbone is always strong and you can be sure that your lengthening amount is exactly how much clicks you have done. A magnetic nail can loose power if the resistance is getting to strong.

Therefore there are objectively more pros than cons for the betzbone. This might change when other weight bearing nails are coming out but so far the facts are very clear for me.

[heightiseverything]

Because the lengthening procedure is barbaric and painful, they don't reverse and they are prone to accidental lengthening. Also they take longer for the bone to heal.

Even though they are full weight bearing they are no much forna good magnetic nail like precise 2.
If we have again a magnetic nail with full weight bearing capabilities then betzbone and all these albizia cr*ps will cease to exist.

In what world is accidental lengthening a disadvantage? This surgery is designed to gain as much length as possible.

[Hatch]

https://fb.watch/uhzkdpp3xX/

"Since it’s release, we’ve implanted over 50 PRECICE Max nails with outstanding results—zero complications and all patients achieving full weight-bearing and lengthening."

Precise max has been 100% succeed so far. They are trying to produce more nails. At this point, I dont see any reason to choose any other nail especially in US. Probably available in Europe next year.

[Body Builder]

In what world is accidental lengthening a disadvantage? This surgery is designed to gain as much length as possible.

Are you stupid or you really ask why accidental (which means that you can exceed the normal lengthening rate 2 or more times causing many problems in soft tissues and nerves) is a disadvantage?

[heightiseverything]

Are you stupid or you really ask why accidental (which means that you can exceed the normal lengthening rate 2 or more times causing many problems in soft tissues and nerves) is a disadvantage?

I highly doubt soft tissue problems are really that big of a deal compared to other problems you could be getting with this surgery, they eventually adapt to whatever lengthening you perform. People who whine about soft tissue issues here are probably snowflakes who can't handle simple discomfort or are not short enough to be serious about it in the first place.

[Body Builder]

I highly doubt soft tissue problems are really that big of a deal compared to other problems you could be getting with this surgery, they eventually adapt to whatever lengthening you perform. People who whine about soft tissue issues here are probably snowflakes who can't handle simple discomfort or are not short enough to be serious about it in the first place.

Soft tissues adaptation is the biggest issue in LL otherwise we could lengthen at rates of 0,5cm oer day and use a bone graft and gain 8cm in 2 weeks.
But if you do that you will not able to walk again.

You are completely ignorant and don't know even basic staff about LL. I hope you are never do LL because you will be completely ruined.

[Ted68]

Depends on your lengthening goals. Everything else is the same except weightbearing. Betzbone is also pricier.

NO !... everything is different !

With clicking implants you suffer like crazy for every click... and are so many clicks !... With Precice is no pain. There are enough suffering and pain, so you don't need an extra pain to hate your life !... because that is happening with Betzbone/Gnail.

With clicking implants you cannot do reverse lengthen in case you need. For example in my case I needed to do back and forth for 20 days, so I did it because I have Precice !

Also, I know a person who got 9 cm with Betzbone and finally after 6 month of so much suffering... found they left him finish lengthening with 1.5cm discrepancy !... They didn't do the final measure and not even asked him to go to a special x-ray, CT or EOS to do the measuring...
So they just didn't care about it.... and this is malpractices  !

[Tallerin2025]

Precise Max is now available in the USA. In Europe it seems that it will be available in 2025, so the price difference would be huge. It is true that betzbone tend to accidentally click on it. Dr Becker says it in a video. I am going to see how a guy I met in Germany finishes his lengthening. And then I will draw my own conclusions. At the moment, in case anyone wants to take a look, I am thinking of going to South Africa with Dr. Birkholtz. Of all the ones I have seen, along with Paley and Lee, there is sure to be another one there. They are the best in this type of cosmetic procedures. In South Africa, the prices are relatively cheaper than those of American surgeons. It is advisable to be in South Africa during the entire lengthening process.

Precise Max is not available in South Africa or?

[I want 8,07 cm]

I dont think so. Dr Birkholtz work just with precise 2. But he is a very good surgeon and the priice is very good. Thursday i have one meeting via zoom. Im excited 🤗

[Hatch]

Precise Max is not available in South Africa or?

Probably not before 2025.

[heightiseverything]

Soft tissues adaptation is the biggest issue in LL otherwise we could lengthen at rates of 0,5cm oer day and use a bone graft and gain 8cm in 2 weeks.
But if you do that you will not able to walk again.

You are completely ignorant and don't know even basic staff about LL. I hope you are never do LL because you will be completely ruined.

I see no reason or evidence soft tissues cannot adapt to extensive lengthening over longer periods of time. If you provided me with a study, I would definitely read it and make up my opinion accordingly. Otherwise, it is just fearmongering.

And yes, I plan to lengthen way over 16 cm in the span of couple years, so I don't live with regret of losing massive amount of money to become just slightly below average or average height.
People here who seriously consider lengthening 5 cm or so are hilarious, your life experience won't change in the slightest. And even if you do full 16 cm, it doesn't matter if you are like 5'1 or so, you will still be the short guy anywhere in the West, so you are just wasting your time and effort.

For really short people every inch counts and the shorter you are, the more you are willing to look past "muah my legs are 0.005 percent longer than my torso now" or "oh no i can't run a marathon in under 5 hours ahhh". Honestly, anyone who cares about proportions or biomechanics too much is either privileged enough not to be short enough or is just not serious about this surgery at all.

[Body Builder]

I see no reason or evidence soft tissues cannot adapt to extensive lengthening over longer periods of time. If you provided me with a study, I would definitely read it and make up my opinion accordingly. Otherwise, it is just fearmongering.

And yes, I plan to lengthen way over 16 cm in the span of couple years, so I don't live with regret of losing massive amount of money to become just slightly below average or average height. People here who seriously consider lengthening 5 cm or so are hilarious, your life experience won't change in the slightest. And even if you do full 16 cm, it doesn't matter if you are 5'1 or so, you will still be the short guy anywhere in the West.

What are the longer periods of time? 16cm in 3 months?
Most people have bad knee rom with 7-8cm on femurs in 3 months without itb release and you talk for much more and you need evidence for something that is common knowledge.
You can try yourself 16 cm on femurs, go to Turkey or India where are willing crooks to do it. And write a diary to share your experience. If you dare.

[heightiseverything]

What are the longer periods of time? 16cm in 3 months?
Most people have bad knee rom with 7-8cm on femurs in 3 months without itb release and you talk for much more and you need evidence for something that is common knowledge.
You can try yourself 16 cm on femurs, go to Turkey or India where are willing crooks to do it. And write a diary to share your experience. If you dare.

No, probably no one can gain 16 cm safely in 3 months. What I meant by that is you let the bone consolidate after doing 8 cm and then wait 1-1.5 years before you re-break and lengthen it again.

I will. I've just realized I may be still growing, so probably it will happen later than I initially planned (as I believe it is better to wait till your growth plates are already closed).

[Body Builder]

No, probably no one can gain 16 cm safely in 3 months. What I meant by that is you let the bone consolidate after doing 8 cm and then wait 1-1.5 years before you re-break and lengthen it again.

I will. I've just realized I may be still growing, so probably it will happen later than I initially planned (as I believe it is better to wait till your growth plates are already closed).

Have you ever heard about biomechanics?
Also, have you ever seen anyone do 16cm on one segment? Do you believe that you are the only who have thought this or the only one that needs that extra height?

16 cm in one run or two or three is feasible for the bone but even if soft tissues will catch up (which they won't), the biomechanics will be so ruined that you may not even able to walk at all.
But you could try it and see on your own.

[Robert Adam]

I think that 8 cm for femur and 5 cm for tibia is the maximum range. Above you can go in a wheelchair. When I read the experiences of others, problems often start from 5 cm on femur and 4 cm on tibia.

[Sigma]

I think that 8 cm for femur and 5 cm for tibia is the maximum range. Above you can go in a wheelchair. When I read the experiences of others, problems often start from 5 cm on femur and 4 cm on tibia.

Not every person is the same. Things like starting height and flexibility increase the limit. The tibia or femur extension of someone who is 1.70 cm tall and someone who is 1.60 cm tall will not be the same.

[heightiseverything]

Have you ever heard about biomechanics?
Also, have you ever seen anyone do 16cm on one segment? Do you believe that you are the only who have thought this or the only one that needs that extra height?

16 cm in one run or two or three is feasible for the bone but even if soft tissues will catch up (which they won't), the biomechanics will be so ruined that you may not even able to walk at all.
But you could try it and see on your own.

Lots of people here mean very different things when they talk about "biomechanics". What do you mean by that? Is it the angle shift? I don't see a problem with that according to my calculations, it is marginal at best. Otherwise, no one really cares for how "perfect" your movements are because your femurs or tibias happen to be longer. There are tons of people with various variations.

Furthermore, do you know that in case the soft tissue doesn't catch up there is a release surgery designed specifically for that? You probably do, even some people on this forum got it done.

To sum it up, I don't see any reason at all why you can't relengthen the same part after consolidation. The procedure is exactly the same anyways.

[Body Builder]

Lots of people here mean very different things when they talk about "biomechanics". What do you mean by that? Is it the angle shift? I don't see a problem with that according to my calculations, it is marginal at best. Otherwise, no one really cares for how "perfect" your movements are because your femurs or tibias happen to be longer. There are tons of people with various variations.

Furthermore, do you know that in case the soft tissue doesn't catch up there is a release surgery designed specifically for that? You probably do, even some people on this forum got it done.

To sum it up, I don't see any reason at all why you can't relengthen the same part after consolidation. The procedure is exactly the same anyways.

Won't continue this stupid conversation.
If you believe you can gain 16cm in femurs and be fine then just do it. I'll wait to see your results.

[heightiseverything]

Won't continue this stupid conversation.
If you believe you can gain 16cm in femurs and be fine then just do it. I'll wait to see your results.

You haven't provided a single argument on why it's not possible, except for lack of people who have done it. This is not an argument.

Yes, you can argue it is going to be exponentially harder with PT and stretching, and may end up with increased rate of complications (the vast majority of them: nonunion, nerve pain, etc. being fairly treatable!, btw), but it is a long shot from impossible. To argue something is impossible, the burden of proof is on you.

If there are people who have gained 12 cm on femurs in a single surgery, it implies it is at least possible to get 16 cm with two surgeries.

[Cll123]

Fine u r correct you are true u can lengthen 16 cm  by two surgeries in the femurs
But no one have done it before maybe patients with actual high  dwarfism
So go and do the 16 cm and make a diary I would like to find how will you do
If you didn’t get complications and started walking good
I will do the same
But we have a problem who is the surgeon in the world who will do that for you
And if he accepted will you feel safe in his hands
Lmfoa
+ u will remove a nail and then insert it again at the same bone femur if u done precice or betz
But if you did externals the will be removed then after a year back again

(Lon and lizarov too) you will be having more and more nails getting outside and inside your bone

All this trauma in your bones for something u can avoid by just doing another 8 in the tibia this 8 is considered for many surgeons as impossible done in one go
Cuz the Achilles tendon and  u break 2 bones :tibia and febula

But for many other surgeons it is possible and way better to do 4 cm in tibia after a year do another 4
You well get complications but not that bad
So thats 8 from tibia
Come back and do the femur u can do the 8 in one go
Or divide it as you wish

Lengthening only from one bone 16 cm is the most stupid thing I have ever heard of

Just to let u know
The body contains cells a group of cells makes tissues
Tissues make an  organ  and organs work in systems
The systems  work to maintain the body

U aren’t a bone only