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[1team]

Lol I look 32. No one sees me as "some old guy". Thanks for your valuable input. Now run along.

Of course you do. Good luck.

[AllinStryde]

I did 7 cm on femurs in West Palm Beach.  It was an interesting journey.  I started CLL at age 39...so 38 is not "too old" as some people are saying.  Do I wish I could've done it at age 25?  Of course.  The harsh reality is that this procedure is so costly, many people can't reasonably afford it in their 20's...and there's no way I would have gone to some "bargain clinic" in Turkey or India to get butchered.  If you do this, make a diary, kinda wish I had. 

[heightiseverything]

Is there any men who are 65 percent legs?

Go on tall reddit, there are people claiming they are 65 percent legs. Anyways, I will also be among those men after the surgeries.

[AnotherLLer]

Go on tall reddit, there are people claiming they are 65 percent legs. Anyways, I will also be among those men after the surgeries.

Ideal is 50% IMO, more than that doesn't look masculine.

I have 47.59% which is visibly shorter compared to my torso. Armspan is 69 inches, night height is 65 inches.

Interesting to note that Michael Phelps has legs of someone of 68 inches tall and torso of someone of 80 inches tall while standing at 76 inches tall with 80 inches wingspan.

If we assume that his legs are 50% of that of 68 inch man, his leg-to-body ratio is 34 / 76 = 0.4473% which is comically low. He is basically all torso and looks short when not wearing high waist pants with tucked in shirts. That's my problem also, even though my ratio is much higher than his at 47.59%. I tend to wear high waist pants / shorts and always tuck in shirts to balance my lower and upper body.

[AllinStryde]

I did 7cm femurs, sorry for late reply

[wes07]

Will you recover 100% and do you play any sports?

[Ben100001]

40 is NOT old, many men have thier best years in thier 40's, 50's and 60's, and are likely the most attractive they've ever been too.

[VertiCali]

40 is NOT old, many men have thier best years in thier 40's, 50's and 60's, and are likely the most attractive they've ever been too.

It's not. I just turned 38 last month and I'm supposedly an "old man" according to this cretin. lol I figure either he's ignorant because he's child or has been aging like a grape and wants to project his insecurities. Weird take either way.

[VertiCali]

I did 7 cm on femurs in West Palm Beach.  It was an interesting journey.  I started CLL at age 39...so 38 is not "too old" as some people are saying.  Do I wish I could've done it at age 25?  Of course.  The harsh reality is that this procedure is so costly, many people can't reasonably afford it in their 20's...and there's no way I would have gone to some "bargain clinic" in Turkey or India to get butchered.  If you do this, make a diary, kinda wish I had.

I'll definitely make a diary. After spending a week with my brothers (those lucky fkers are all between 5'9 and 5'11), taking pictures with them, editing it to see the difference, and comparing our proportions, I've slightly revised my goals. At least my path to getting there. I'll definitely do just one bilateral segment and see how it goes. In fact, I might just do 2inches on my tibia first. I would have never thought I'd go that route a month ago. I was sure I would do femurs, but I've come around to believe that this is now the best course for me. Aside from the fact that I don't want the changes to be too drastic too quickly, I am actually kind of looking forward to the muscle hypertrophy that some people want to avoid (a "side-effect" for some, but definitely a benefit for me). My calves are way too thin right now. The second benefit is that I would have complete control over what my final height would be on my second procedure without having to worry about being disproportionate. I can dial it up to just 5'9/5'10 if I want and be done with it, if I feel it's sufficient. I imagine it would also be easier on my body as the risk of complication has an exponential growth curve. Ultimately, I might just stop at 5'10 with two 2inch LL procedures. I could be content with that and would not look out of place standing with my brothers. Their arm lengths aren't too different from mine.

By the way, how has it been since you had your procedure? Was it worth it?

[VertiCali]

Will you recover 100% and do you play any sports?

I don't know whether I will fully recover or not. That's part of why I'm asking this question. I do play sports though not as much as I used to. I do martial arts. I'm getting back up to my old active lifestyle. My flexibility is, I would say, pretty good. I can touch my knees with my face and can do those Van Damme type splits, though not quite all the way. Close though. I'm curious if that will make the process easier for me. But I have kind of resolved to the fact that I might never gain that flexibility again. My hope is that I might go from that to the flexibility of the average person, which I think is a fair trade off.

[VertiCali]

Ideal is 50% IMO, more than that doesn't look masculine.

I have 47.59% which is visibly shorter compared to my torso. Armspan is 69 inches, night height is 65 inches.

Interesting to note that Michael Phelps has legs of someone of 68 inches tall and torso of someone of 80 inches tall while standing at 76 inches tall with 80 inches wingspan.

If we assume that his legs are 50% of that of 68 inch man, his leg-to-body ratio is 34 / 76 = 0.4473% which is comically low. He is basically all torso and looks short when not wearing high waist pants with tucked in shirts. That's my problem also, even though my ratio is much higher than his at 47.59%. I tend to wear high waist pants / shorts and always tuck in shirts to balance my lower and upper body.

Your proportions seem to be similar to mine. You could safely lengthen up to 5 inches and be ideal at 50%. Hell, you could probably go a little higher to 6 inches and you'd still be fine, but I think conservative is better if it's close enough.

[Alcibiades]

At least half of the diaries I've read have been mid to late 30s.

I think the age discussion was mostly prompted by your proposing three surgeries. I just listened to a Paley interview with Victor where Paley says he looks askance at humerus and that, when people come to him proposing several surgeries like this, he suspects there is a mental health problem and does not want to work with them. I can see you're already adjusting your expectations as you consume more CLL content and learn more.

The kid who was on your case here is obviously early 20s if he doesn't know that your market value goes up probably fivefold in your thirties.

[VertiCali]

At least half of the diaries I've read have been mid to late 30s.

I think the age discussion was mostly prompted by your proposing three surgeries. I just listened to a Paley interview with Victor where Paley says he looks askance at humerus and that, when people come to him proposing several surgeries like this, he suspects there is a mental health problem and does not want to work with them. I can see you're already adjusting your expectations as you consume more CLL content and learn more.

The kid who was on your case here is obviously early 20s if he doesn't know that your market value goes up probably fivefold in your thirties.

I can totally how that kind of talk can serve as a marker for a potential mental health issue. In my case, it's more my penchant for perfection/ideal than anything else. I suppose there is a bit of an OCPD element there, but I'm definitely mentally stable. I think for most folks here, the significant role stature plays on one's dating life probably lends to the mental health concern.

As I mentioned in one of my previous replies, I've been fortunate that I've had a pretty successful dating life (both casually and seriously, often with women who were in the 8 plus range) so I didn't really have as much of a pressing need to do it sooner, nor do I have that much of a regret that I'm doing it now rather than earlier (although, NGL, I have thought about how much better my otherwise pretty good dating/sex life could have been). I actually heard about CLL when I was in my mid 20's and played sports, but I was soon caught up with building my career (and later a couple of startups, one of which ended up being successful abroad) and still having a lot of fun going out and enjoying life with friends that I kind of forgot about it until recently. I was often so oblivious to the fact that I was as short as I am that my delusional confidence may have made up for it when it comes to women. That and the fact that I was out of the US for most of the last 10 years doing business in a country where the average height was around 5'6 probably made it easier to forget as well.

Once I'd accomplished my financial goals and settled down with my fiancé, I realized I still had these latent/unresolved insecurities. It's one of the reasons I've avoided having a wedding/getting married for all these years, 5 long-term relationships later. For some reason, every girl I've had a serious relationship with (except one) was on the taller side (usually my height, if not slightly taller), including the current one. She says she's 5'6 but is likely 5'7; we don't talk about the fact that she might be taller than me. lol But one thing's for sure, I don't see myself having a wedding unless I'm definitively and unambiguously taller than her. Plus, now that I'm back in the US and much of my professional work is here, it's increasingly more difficult to avoid the reminders, especially when many of my colleagues are on the taller side, including the women. To make matters worse, a majority of the women I work with are in the 5'6-5'9 range. So these are the factors that sort of conspired to make now the right time.

I just hope that the muscle hypertrophy expectation I have for my tibia procedure turns out to be true. I could actually live with not doing any more CLL after that, even if I'm just shy of 5'9, so long as I can finally wear shorts and low top sneakers.

[Alcibiades]

Very similar oblivious confidence here. I'm also guessing you were never perceived as shorter in middle school and didn't really think about the fact that your classmates were still growing up to 18 and beyond. If so this probably ironically kept us from researching and trying to solve the problem when it would've been easiest to address.

[onedaytall]

I read you are emasculated, my point is you are into middle age now. No one really cares about your height at your age as you are now seen by society as some old guy. There isn't really return on investment. Makes more sense if you are 25 for example to do this. Sounds like you are going to do it anyway but it is pointless at your age.

I'm not even near 40 but I strongly disagree. When men age, the importance of height becomes more, not less. A short young man who has a chill attitude, attractive face, style, vibe etc can get away with so many things with women that older men same height cannot. No-one cares about your "cool vibe" anymore when you are 40. Height actually is more important than before, the way I see it.

Secondly, many people here are giving up on life once they reach 40? Lol. A man that ages well and has a successful life, is still very attractive in his 40's. In some cases even more. CLL at 40 yo is still very reasonable, depending on the person.

Some middle aged men are family men, not out in the dating markets and not caring about whatever status improvement LL might bring cause they are not living in that competitive world anymore. Maybe then LL doesn't make sense, but for some it can still bring big advantage.

We aren't telling the middle aged women to stop getting facelifts cause they will never look 20 again. Why should men not do LL then?

[AnotherLLer]

I'm not even near 40 but I strongly disagree. When men age, the importance of height becomes more, not less. A short young man who has a chill attitude, attractive face, style, vibe etc can get away with so many things with women that older men same height cannot. No-one cares about your "cool vibe" anymore when you are 40. Height actually is more important than before, the way I see it.

Secondly, many people here are giving up on life once they reach 40? Lol. A man that ages well and has a successful life, is still very attractive in his 40's. In some cases even more. CLL at 40 yo is still very reasonable, depending on the person.

Some middle aged men are family men, not out in the dating markets and not caring about whatever status improvement LL might bring cause they are not living in that competitive world anymore. Maybe then LL doesn't make sense, but for some it can still bring big advantage.

We aren't telling the middle aged women to stop getting facelifts cause they will never look 20 again. Why should men not do LL then?

I agree with you 100%. LL makes more sense for single men who enter their late 30s and look decent for their age. I myself won't be able to afford it with top surgeons at least for 5 more years and by that time I'll be about 35 years old. Even if it takes another 5 years for me to gather the money, I'll still do it at 40 years of age without hesitation.

People in their 20s view men in their late 30s / early 40s as old fellas who are about to retire and live sedentary lives due to no longer being young which is pathethic to say the least. Of course some men look like grandpas in their 40s and lose interest in active lifestyle but it's 100% dependent on genetics and attitude. So, getting LL at 40 years of age is dependent on many things among which genetic fitness and life attitude are main factors justifying getting the procedure done. I'd even do it at 50 to be honest.

At middle age more and more things are getting important for a man to possess and having longer legs and at least average height is a significant asset indeed. It will certainly help in romantic and business affairs along with having decent savings and good social status (this one is no less important than getting LL though).

[VertiCali]

Very similar oblivious confidence here. I'm also guessing you were never perceived as shorter in middle school and didn't really think about the fact that your classmates were still growing up to 18 and beyond. If so this probably ironically kept us from researching and trying to solve the problem when it would've been easiest to address.

Lol exactly! I was a average height for my age until everyone else came back from summer 3 inches taller. I never really struggled with women so it literally never occurred to me that they care so much about height until well into my 20's. In my younger years, I would get girls without really trying because they often approached me, but as I got older, I had to work for it. I never understood why it suddenly became an effort. I only came to the realization during conversation with some of my exes where they describe their ideal man. They all invariably descried a tall man. Without exception. Somehow I made the cut despite not being it, so continued in my (now will*ful)* obliviousness.

It later occurred to me that if I had the height, I would likely have continued to enjoy the effortless experience of my younger years. I do miss it. I can't lie and say that I wouldn't like to experience regularly being approached by women (usually their friend) again. Even if I won't act on it due to my current relationship status, it would be some worthwhile validation.



*Apparently, you can't use words that contain "l.l.f" as it will get rewritten to "LL Forum"

[VertiCali]

I'm not even near 40 but I strongly disagree. When men age, the importance of height becomes more, not less. A short young man who has a chill attitude, attractive face, style, vibe etc can get away with so many things with women that older men same height cannot. No-one cares about your "cool vibe" anymore when you are 40. Height actually is more important than before, the way I see it.

Secondly, many people here are giving up on life once they reach 40? Lol. A man that ages well and has a successful life, is still very attractive in his 40's. In some cases even more. CLL at 40 yo is still very reasonable, depending on the person.

Some middle aged men are family men, not out in the dating markets and not caring about whatever status improvement LL might bring cause they are not living in that competitive world anymore. Maybe then LL doesn't make sense, but for some it can still bring big advantage.

We aren't telling the middle aged women to stop getting facelifts cause they will never look 20 again. Why should men not do LL then?

Spot on. Everything you said. 100%!