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[VertiCali]

I'm a 5'6 male with a 5'9 wingspan. My femur and tibia are about ~37cm each, which I assume is unusual, but convenient for LL, especially on the femurs.

I did some mockups of what I might look like with 8cm on my femur, 5cm on my humerus, and 5cm on my tibia and the end result looks like a very normal looking 5'11 male with a 6'1 wingspan and really no issues in terms of proportionality.

Is this realistic? Am I being a bit overzealous here? Is there something I've not taken into consideration. I could be content with just a single LL to 5'9, but I feel like if I'm gonna do it, why not go all the way?

I live in the LA area so it is kind of a given that I'd go with Dr. Shahab Mahboubian, unless others have a better suggestion.

Despite how superficial this city is, I will say that dating and women aren't really my motivations here as my height hasn't really held me back too much in that area (although I'm sure it would have given it a huge boost had I had the height to go along with the charm and the good looking face). The biggest thing for me is the emasculation I feel around my professional peers due to my height, where quite a few of the women are also taller than me. One should command a certain presence when one is leading a large group of people, but I don't think I'll ever have that effect with this height. I really abhor taking photos with people as a result, an exercise that's become increasingly difficult for me to avoid lately.

[VertiCali]

One other question I've also wanted to ask, if there are others here who've done tibia LL is regarding this peculiar phenomenon I've noticed on certain people who've had LL on their tibia where instead of being stretched out and thinner, the lower leg muscles actually become much bigger than they were before. Has that been your observation as well? That's probably the biggest secondary reason for also doing my tibia (if it will add volume to it) because what I have right now are basically chicken legs.

[AnotherLLer]

Humerus is extreme IMO and doing 5 inches is not necessary. Do 3 or 4 inches max and focus on recovery instead. 3 LL is no joke, man.

[VertiCali]

Humerus is extreme IMO and doing 5 inches is not necessary. Do 3 or 4 inches max and focus on recovery instead. 3 LL is no joke, man.

Extreme in the sense that it's not necessary or that it's a more difficult journey than other LL surgeries? I figured since Paley and a couple of other doctors offer it cosmetically, that it's probably not too crazy. Has anyone here done it?

Personally, wouldn't mind just a 3in on my femur and 2in on my humerus (one year apart) and leave it at that.

I suppose I can consider tibia some later down the road. I care more about natural proportions than I do maximum height so the tibia thing is just the icing on the cake I can consider later on.

[Fiddlestick]

The arm lengthening is optional.

Nobody on the street measures your proportion.
No woman on bed measures your proportion.

Only people on this forum and YOU are measuring your proportion.

[AnotherLLer]

Well, unless you have visible disproportion between limbs, it's ok not to lengthen your arms.

IMO, if your humerus and forearm look proportionate to each other and humerus descends normally relative to torso while the hands descend below crotch (at least to mid thigh), it's ok. The thing is your arms should look harmonious relative to your torso and pelvis. IMO, most people who have negative ape index at their natural height pre-LL tend to look bad even without LL.

Take Henry Cavill for example who, IMO, has at least -5 inch ape index. His arms look suspicious because he naturally has severe negative ape index, which is not the result of LL but he was born with it. The same goes for Artem Lobov guy. He looks weird because he was born with underdeveloped arms for his body.

Now, there are limits of course, no matter how harmonious your arm length looks relative to your upper body and pelvis. If you go for too much on femurs, the distance from hands to knees will look too long and it will look suspicious.

IMO, 2 inches on tibia and 3 inches on femur is the absolute max one can do if his arms look normal relative to his body pre-LL and if and only if he has very short legs relative to torso to begin with. If one is already leggy, he will look really bad with 5 inches of LL, there's no question about it.

[VertiCali]

The arm lengthening is optional.

Nobody on the street measures your proportion.
No woman on bed measures your proportion.

Only people on this forum and YOU are measuring your proportion.

Concern about arm length and being proportional for me has very little (read: nothing) to do with women. Even the the height thing is more to treat a general psychological issue than it is specifically being women centric. I have a fiance who is more or less my height and who many might think is a model. I've actually been quite lucky when it comes to women, despite my height disadvantage.

Now, of course, I've always dreamed of being noticeably taller than her, but my stature relative to the average male (and my brothers who are all 5'10 and 5'11) is really the main thing that bothers me and if the humerus lengthening is not highly invasive, I have no problem putting up with it for 6 months for the lifetime of psychological comfort it would give me. I'm technically average height where I was born, but obviously not so here in the US.

[VertiCali]

Well, unless you have visible disproportion between limbs, it's ok not to lengthen your arms.

IMO, if your humerus and forearm look proportionate to each other and humerus descends normally relative to torso while the hands descend below crotch (at least to mid thigh), it's ok. The thing is your arms should look harmonious relative to your torso and pelvis. IMO, most people who have negative ape index at their natural height pre-LL tend to look bad even without LL.

Take Henry Cavill for example who, IMO, has at least -5 inch ape index. His arms look suspicious because he naturally has severe negative ape index, which is not the result of LL but he was born with it. The same goes for Artem Lobov guy. He looks weird because he was born with underdeveloped arms for his body.

Now, there are limits of course, no matter how harmonious your arm length looks relative to your upper body and pelvis. If you go for too much on femurs, the distance from hands to knees will look too long and it will look suspicious.

IMO, 2 inches on tibia and 3 inches on femur is the absolute max one can do if his arms look normal relative to his body pre-LL and if and only if he has very short legs relative to torso to begin with. If one is already leggy, he will look really bad with 5 inches of LL, there's no question about it.

My wingspan, as I mentioned, is 5'9, so my arms are slightly on the longer side for my height and my legs on the shorter side. The tip of my finger reaches around 2/3 of the way down my thighs to my knees. But after lengthening, I would hate to feel self-conscious about my arms, plus, honestly, I want a long reach commensurate with my new height. Adding 3inches to my femurs to reach 5'9 would make my arms the same length as my height, so it would probably look normal. But if I ever do my tibia to reach 5'11, my arms would appear to be on the shorter side. If I were Asian, I think they would still look normal (i.e consistent with expectations), but I'm a brown North African and short arms aren't all that common amongst people of black/African descent.

So my question is, when you say humerus is extreme, are you saying it's more invasive and more dangerous than other surgeries or is it more about it being unnecessary for normal appearance?

[sxxa]

In my opinion I would say humerus lenghtening after quad LL is a toll your body won't take well. I mean you are not a Baki character, 3 big surgeries on your body have all things needed to be a disaster. I don't think you understand quite well how hard this procedure actually is. Nerves, muscles, blood, and all complicated medical stuff you don't know are compromised with this.

[VertiCali]

In my opinion I would say humerus lenghtening after quad LL is a toll your body won't take well. I mean you are not a Baki character, 3 big surgeries on your body have all things needed to be a disaster. I don't think you understand quite well how hard this procedure actually is. Nerves, muscles, blood, and all complicated medical stuff you don't know are compromised with this.

Fair points, but I didn't say humerus after quad. The humerus was after bilateral femur. Tibia, I'm not too concerned about. That can wait years if necessary.

To your point, it's true, I can't say I fully understand how much of a toll this is on my body. But if the issue is "hey this is too much for your body to take at the same time or within a year," I totally understand. But if it's a bad idea in general, even years apart, I'm just curious what the issue is there. I want to fully consider all of the risks associated with it before I do anything.

I think based on the feedback here, I'm not inclined to do more than two procedures within at least a span of 3 years. But the general aversion to humerus lengthening seems to just be instinctual rather than anything scientifically/medically relevant. I'd certainly like to know though if that's wrong.

[onedaytall]

Just my opinion but the humerus lengthening seems completely unnecessary. And if after femur lengthening you have the option to go either for tibias or humerus, why on earth would you choose humerus? It's gonna add zero value to your life unlike tibia lengthening.

[Beemer m3]

if u add one inch to ur humerous that adds two inches to ur wingspan if u havent thought of that. but ur wingspan is really long and i dont think u need humerous lengthening after a 5'11 increase. i mean u would look long in every department but ur muscle stretching arms n legs u would be thinking why. its pretty physical like sore muscles but its everyday until who knows when it heals. at 38 yo ur body aint like it used to be too.

[1team]

if u add one inch to ur humerous that adds two inches to ur wingspan if u havent thought of that. but ur wingspan is really long and i dont think u need humerous lengthening after a 5'11 increase. i mean u would look long in every department but ur muscle stretching arms n legs u would be thinking why. its pretty physical like sore muscles but its everyday until who knows when it heals. at 38 yo ur body aint like it used to be too.

38 too old for LL?

[VertiCali]

if u add one inch to ur humerous that adds two inches to ur wingspan if u havent thought of that.

Yes, of course. That's why I said my wingspan would be 6'1 at the end with a 2 inch increase.

but ur wingspan is really long and i dont think u need humerous lengthening after a 5'11 increase. i mean u would look long in every department but ur muscle stretching arms n legs u would be thinking why. its pretty physical like sore muscles but its everyday until who knows when it heals. at 38 yo ur body aint like it used to be too.

It looks like you started at my height and planning to do more or less the same? What is your final goal? How has your recovery been for your tibia?

The age thing is a fair point, but my assumption is that I can mitigate much of that by spacing out the procedures over a 3 year period or so.

[heightiseverything]

No one cares about proportion if you are under 20 cm of lengthening, after that humerus lengthening is necessary imo

[AnotherLLer]

LOL, 20 cm in leg length is huge. It will make any person look disproportionate no matter their starting height and proportions. IMO 5 inches is absolute max from double LL in terms of both, safety and not looking like an alien post lengthening.

[AllinStryde]

Just of these procedures is extremely difficult.  It's easy to say you want to do 3 separate procedures before you have embarked on even one.  I will advise you to just do one first, and see what it entails.  You may be surprised with the results and be quite satisfied.  Make arms the last thing...as there is no height gain there at all to benefit you.  And like many said before...you are the only one measuring your proportions, nobody is out there trying to analyze that on you in your daily life.  Yes, I've done it, and no...there's no easy CLL. 

[AnotherLLer]

Just of these procedures is extremely difficult.  It's easy to say you want to do 3 separate procedures before you have embarked on even one.  I will advise you to just do one first, and see what it entails.  You may be surprised with the results and be quite satisfied.  Make arms the last thing...as there is no height gain there at all to benefit you.  And like many said before...you are the only one measuring your proportions, nobody is out there trying to analyze that on you in your daily life.  Yes, I've done it, and no...there's no easy CLL.

OP, take advice from this guy. 3 LL is no joke, especially 6 inches in legs and then 2 inches in humerus.

Start with tibia as it will look better and is cheap and safe if done fully externally. You can go up to 6 cm and straighten the shins at the same time if they are bowed. You can always do femurs later.

[heightiseverything]

LOL, 20 cm in leg length is huge. It will make any person look disproportionate no matter their starting height and proportions. IMO 5 inches is absolute max from double LL in terms of both, safety and not looking like an alien post lengthening.

Yes it is huge, but it is consistent with natural variation. It's laughable of how many people on this forum are obsessed with perfect proportions when in reality no one chooses their own proportions except us. People live fine even if they are 65 percent legs though.

[1team]

Yes it is huge, but it is consistent with natural variation. It's laughable of how many people on this forum are obsessed with perfect proportions when in reality no one chooses their own proportions except us. People live fine even if they are 65 percent legs though.

Is there any men who are 65 percent legs?

[VertiCali]

OP, take advice from this guy. 3 LL is no joke, especially 6 inches in legs and then 2 inches in humerus.


Start with tibia as it will look better and is cheap and safe if done fully externally. You can go up to 6 cm and straighten the shins at the same time if they are bowed. You can always do femurs later.

5 inches, not 6. More likely 4 and some change. But I appreciate the feedback and I think I'll just do one and see. And no, I don't think I'll do tibia first. Given that I already have an almost 1:1 tiba to femur ratio, that would be silly.

[VertiCali]

Just of these procedures is extremely difficult.  It's easy to say you want to do 3 separate procedures before you have embarked on even one.  I will advise you to just do one first, and see what it entails.  You may be surprised with the results and be quite satisfied.  Make arms the last thing...as there is no height gain there at all to benefit you.  And like many said before...you are the only one measuring your proportions, nobody is out there trying to analyze that on you in your daily life.  Yes, I've done it, and no...there's no easy CLL.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll take these suggestions under advisement and just do one and see how it turns out. I have a relative who is about 5'10 and he naturally has the proportions I would be after the CLL and it looks good on him. Actually better than other "normal" variants I've seen. So, I'll just see how it turns out. Fortunately for me, most of my height deficit is in my femurs. All other segments, including my tibia and wingspan, seem to be consistent with a person who is 5'9. I'll see if I'll have the appetite to do more later down the road.

What were your gains and procedure, if I may ask?

[VertiCali]

So here is a mockup I did of my final proportions for the three possible scenarios:

https://imgur.com/a/UF05VZB
180cm femurs/tibia/humerus | 180cm femurs/tibia | 175cm femurs


(the single barefoot is to equalize the uneven legs)

[markr09]

Do you really want to do humerus as well? 5'9 wingspan on someone 5'11 isn't even that rare, people like that exists. A single lengthening surgery already takes a toll on you quite heavily and for a minimum of usually 2 years, and you want 3? If you still want it, that's on you, but take into consideration the amount of time and recovery that this is going to take.

[VertiCali]

Do you really want to do humerus as well? 5'9 wingspan on someone 5'11 isn't even that rare, people like that exists. A single lengthening surgery already takes a toll on you quite heavily and for a minimum of usually 2 years, and you want 3? If you still want it, that's on you, but take into consideration the amount of time and recovery that this is going to take.

I've decided to play it by ear. I'll do one and see how I feel. I just created the mockups to get a sense of what the different scenarios might look like. I feel like the one with the humerus is the most natural looking one (obviously), but I've looked at them long enough to lose a sense of what's normal now. Maybe others can chime in.

At 5'11 without humerus, I suspect I'm basically in the Chris Benoit territory (who also happened to have been 5'11):
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e6/73/c9/e673c960c5f92eb2f473f4f9835a1608.jpg

[_dearStranger]

why do you wanna reach 5 ' 11 though ?
5 inch lengthening will make your life miserable when you become old when all pain from all these surgeries flare up.

i do not recommend more than 7 + 5 = 12 cm.
better choice would be 6 + 4 = 10 cm.

also, you are not some teenager. you are almost 40. by the time you do surgery you will probably be 40. 40 years old body recovers significantly slower than young people. 

[1team]

Some people have brought it up but being nearly 40 what made you want to do LL? I ask as most people here are in their 20s which makes sense as it's still young enough to enjoy the height. Just not sure how much it is worth it when you are into middle age and your youth is well over. 

[VertiCali]

Some people have brought it up but being nearly 40 what made you want to do LL? I ask as most people here are in their 20s which makes sense as it's still young enough to enjoy the height. Just not sure how much it is worth it when you are into middle age and your youth is well over.

I take it you're not the type of person who likes to read.

[VertiCali]

why do you wanna reach 5 ' 11 though ?
5 inch lengthening will make your life miserable when you become old when all pain from all these surgeries flare up.

i do not recommend more than 7 + 5 = 12 cm.
better choice would be 6 + 4 = 10 cm.

also, you are not some teenager. you are almost 40. by the time you do surgery you will probably be 40. 40 years old body recovers significantly slower than young people.

Good Lord. Are most people here stupid or just lazy? I'm not debating this topic as nauseam. This has already been discussed. My plan is to do one. My reasons for entertaining more have already been discussed. 40 is not some magical number for being old that 38 isn't. How old are you?

[1team]

I take it you're not the type of person who likes to read.

I read you are emasculated, my point is you are into middle age now. No one really cares about your height at your age as you are now seen by society as some old guy. There isn't really return on investment. Makes more sense if you are 25 for example to do this. Sounds like you are going to do it anyway but it is pointless at your age.

[VertiCali]

I read you are emasculated, my point is you are into middle age now. No one really cares about your height at your age as you are now seen by society as some old guy. There isn't really return on investment. Makes more sense if you are 25 for example to do this. Sounds like you are going to do it anyway but it is pointless at your age.

Lol I look 32. No one sees me as "some old guy". Thanks for your valuable input. Now run along.