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Author Topic: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)  (Read 8386 times)

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karlston

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Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
« on: December 31, 2023, 09:01:23 PM »

Hey LLers,

I’ve been lurking on these forums for almost two years. It has been an incredibly useful resource towards my decision on if and how to lengthen.

In April 2024, I will have a bilateral lengthening surgery with Dr. Giotikas in Athens using the weight-bearing G-Nail to lengthen my femurs by 5cm. I’m sharing this diary with as much detail and data as I can in case it’s useful for others who are considering the surgery.

Motivation
My height puts me at the 25th percentile in my country. I struggle to consistently be confident and outgoing due to a frequent preoccupation with height, which hinders my social wellbeing. I believe being raised (literally) to average height combined with therapy will lead to an improved self-perception and a more fulfilling life.

Stats
Basics: 29, Male, European
Starting height: 171cm (target after surgery: 176cm)
Wingspan: 176cm
Weight: 76kg (target before surgery: 73kg)
Fitness:
  • 5k pace: 4:30 min/km
  • 10k pace: 4:45 min/km
  • Squat: 115 kg 1RM
  • RDL: 130 kg 1RM
  • Bench press: 80 kg 1RM

Operation
I have the following constraints for the operation:
  • Low risk of complications.
  • Maintain normal proportions.
  • Eventually get back to 90% of my current fitness level.
  • Get back to walking as soon as possible.
  • Europe based.

Which resulted in the following decisions:
  • Length: 5cm as my femurs are already slightly disproportionate to my tibias, and the moderate length will lead to a shorter turnaround time and higher likelihood of getting back to my previous fitness level. Depending on my perception after the surgery, I would consider lengthening a “safe” amount (4cm) on my tibias in ~2 years to reach 180cm and better proportions.
  • Surgeon: Dr. Giotikas as he’s one of the most experienced surgeons in Europe, and there are multiple successful diary entries in this forum. He has been empathetic, patient and informative in our consultations so far.
  • Nail: G-Nail looks to be the most reliable weight-bearing nail in the market right now. My understanding is that a weight-bearing nail will cause less muscle atrophy and lead to faster recovery compared to an NWB nail. The downside is the clicking mechanism which is more complex and stressful.

Expected timeline
  • -90 days (now) - Start preparation
  • -3 days - Go to Athens
  • +0 days - Operation
  • +7 days - Distraction phase and PT begins
  • +30 days - Work remotely while doing PT
  • +57 days - Consolidation phase begins
  • +60-90 days - Go back to home city with less frequent PT
  • +120 days - Walk is mostly back to normal
  • +150 days - Consolidation phase ends
  • + 360 days - Rods removal
  • + 375 days - Can gradually resume intense activities (running, tennis)
  • + 620 days - (potentially) Start lengthening 4cm on tibias

Preparation
Stretching: Quads, hamstrings, hip adductors, IT band stretch routine in the mornings & evenings.

Gym: Resistance training twice a week to maintain muscle mass. I have large thigh muscles so I'm unsure if it’s best to let those muscles atrophy before the surgery or keep them to maintain strength.

Equipment & supplements:
  • Collagen (muscle, bone and skin)
  • Glucosamine (joint and soft tissue)
  • Whey (protein)
  • Omega-3 (anti-inflammatory)
  • Curcumin (anti-inflammatory)
  • Multivitamin: B, C, D, Zinc, K2
  • Melatonin and Magnesium Bisglycinate (sleep)
  • CBD (pain management & sleep)
  • Compression sleeves (circulation)
  • Mattress topper (sleep)
  • Laptop & Oculus (entertainment)
  • Yoga mat and stretching belt (home stretching)
  • Grabber tool
  • Hot & cold packs

Would love advice on what else to consider.

Recovery
I plan to stay 4 weeks in either the Grand Hyatt or Novotel in Athens and the remaining 4+ weeks in an Airbnb. It would be great to hear experiences from other patients that have stayed in Athens regarding accommodation. I’m also unsure whether to hire a caretaker or not.

Estimated costs
  • Surgery: €48,900
  • Rod removal: €4,200
  • Accommodation: €100 euro * 60 days = €6,000
  • Food: €50 * 60 days = €3,000
  • Plane tickets: €300
  • Ground transportation: €500
Total: €62900

Next posts
I’ll try to capture in my follow-up posts:
  • Pre-op blood work & x-rays.
  • Surgery experience.
  • Recovery experience & videos.
  • Post-recovery blood work & x-rays.

Let me know what other information would be useful.
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Silzz

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Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2024, 03:38:49 PM »

I'll see u there bud. Mine is scheduled for end of Febuary. Gnail femurs as well  8)
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piikachu

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Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2024, 04:09:17 PM »

Why not Betzbone with Dr Becker in Freiburg im Breisgau?
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Rockstarz5

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Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2024, 11:59:10 PM »

 Would you or anybody consider  nitrous oxide like arginina?..  not sure if doctor accept it but, I have listen amazing things, it helps to recover the body after gym and increase blood preasure because it make it the vein bigger.. a lot of gym rats used ir for restauration of the body after big fights with the gym
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karlston

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Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2024, 08:23:49 PM »

Pre-op prep update

Logistics:
The flight and hotel are booked. I've ended the lease for my current apartment. I will be putting whatever I don't take with me in storage as I plan to stay at least 2 months in Athens.

Stretching:
I originally planned to stretch twice a day. It's been hard to sustain that as life gets in the way. Practically I've been able to stretch around 6 times a week.

I've had a lot of success using the PNF technique to increase my range of motion when stretching. By contracting the muscle for 5 seconds when already at your perceived maximum ROM and then relaxing again, you trick your nervous system to go past that ROM.


Sentiment:
It feels surreal that I'm actually be going through with the operation in a few weeks. In about 1/10 days I feel like it's a mistake and I should cancel everything, but in the other 9 days I feel confident in the decision. So averaging it out it's probably still worth going ahead with it :) .

While I'm worried about the pain, potential complications, and proportions, my main fear is being too long away from work. I'm not sure how the time away and lower performance when recovering and working remotely will put my employment at risk.

I'll see u there bud. Mine is scheduled for end of Febuary. Gnail femurs as well  8)
Hey Silzz, good luck with your operation, see you there!

Why not Betzbone with Dr Becker in Freiburg im Breisgau?
Dr Becker seems like another great option in Europe. I chose Dr. Giotikas in Athens because the location was convenient and there's an abundance of patient journals here.

Would you or anybody consider  nitrous oxide like arginina?..  not sure if doctor accept it but, I have listen amazing things, it helps to recover the body after gym and increase blood preasure because it make it the vein bigger.. a lot of gym rats used ir for restauration of the body after big fights with the gym
That wasn't on my radar, thanks for the heads up. I'll look into it and talk to my doctor.
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DonBones

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Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2024, 09:39:33 PM »

Hey man,

just to manage your expectations a bit, walk back to normal after 120 days and rod removal after 360 is very optimistic. I'd say multiply both times two and it will be a more realistic estimate.

Playing tennis 15 days after rod removal won't happen either, I am afraid. It will be 3 - 5 months before you can do intense sports post nail removal, assuming no issues. The main reason is there will be an increased risk of fracture for a few months post nail removal. Because of this 15 days post nail removal you will likely hold crutches in your hands, not a tennis racket.

Sorry to sound a bit negative, but it is important to know what is coming. I had the same expectation as you and when I realised I was wrong that was very frustrating for me and my wife. So please remain optimistic, but do not understimate this procedure. This is very hard and takes a very long time, involving setbacks along the way.

That said, it can be done. All the best! :)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2024, 10:04:52 PM by DonBones »
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First Surgery - Prof Betz - 28th July 2021 🇩🇪
Nail Removal - Dr Becker - 13th December 2023 🇩🇪
Lengthened: 5.00cm
Height: 180cm
Current Phase: Enjoying New Height :)

Marie_Bard

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Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2024, 07:45:42 AM »

Hey man,

just to manage your expectations a bit, walk back to normal after 120 days and rod removal after 360 is very optimistic. I'd say multiply both times two and it will be a more realistic estimate.

Playing tennis 15 days after rod removal won't happen either, I am afraid. It will be 3 - 5 months before you can do intense sports post nail removal, assuming no issues. The main reason is there will be an increased risk of fracture for a few months post nail removal. Because of this 15 days post nail removal you will likely hold crutches in your hands, not a tennis racket.

Sorry to sound a bit negative, but it is important to know what is coming. I had the same expectation as you and when I realised I was wrong that was very frustrating for me and my wife. So please remain optimistic, but do not understimate this procedure. This is very hard and takes a very long time, involving setbacks along the way.

That said, it can be done. All the best! :)

Nah!...I do take your point but he is only lengthening 5 cm so I think his numbers should be doable .
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karlston

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Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2024, 04:59:26 PM »

Pre-surgery update

Tomorrow is the big day. I had a pre-surgery meeting with Giotikas and his team. I'm really impressed with the professionalism and empathy from everyone. Despite having some (healthy) anxiety for tomorrow, the team has made me feel more confident with the operation.

Arrival to Athens
I've enjoyed Athens so far and it's been smooth getting around from the airport to the hotel and the hospital. Looks like there is plenty of food options and the hotel is very comfortable.

Operation
I will be under full anesthesia and receive intrathecal morphine before the ~4-5 hours surgery. They expect me to go to a regular hospital room within 45 min of the surgery being completed. I'll be staying 3 nights in the hospital before coming back to the hotel. Dr. G has approved the larger nail size, which hopefully results in a more stable recovery.

Supplementation plan

Straight after surgery
  • Whey protein (protein)
  • Collagen (protein, soft tissue)
  • Glucosamine (joints and soft tissue)
  • Turmeric Curcurmin (anti-inflammatory)
  • Multi-vitamin (zinc, selenium, Bs, etc)
  • Magnesium Bisglycinate and Melatonin (sleep)

    1 week after surgery:
    • Continue with the above
    • Omega-3
    • L-arginine (improved bloodflow)


    Here's a pic of the whole kit  ::)


    Height goal
    I am still keeping the target at 5cm, but after more research and speaking to patients I am flexible (pun intended) to go up to 5.7cm if the recovery process goes well.

    Cyborg4life (Victor) session
    I booked an hour session with C4L  a few weeks ago and it was immensely helpful -- definitely recommend. He gave me insights about how to optimize recovery and shared some real patient experiences with my doctor.

    Hey man,

    just to manage your expectations a bit, walk back to normal after 120 days and rod removal after 360 is very optimistic. I'd say multiply both times two and it will be a more realistic estimate.

    Playing tennis 15 days after rod removal won't happen either, I am afraid. It will be 3 - 5 months before you can do intense sports post nail removal, assuming no issues. The main reason is there will be an increased risk of fracture for a few months post nail removal. Because of this 15 days post nail removal you will likely hold crutches in your hands, not a tennis racket.

    Sorry to sound a bit negative, but it is important to know what is coming. I had the same expectation as you and when I realised I was wrong that was very frustrating for me and my wife. So please remain optimistic, but do not understimate this procedure. This is very hard and takes a very long time, involving setbacks along the way.

    That said, it can be done. All the best! :)

    Thanks for this, it's helpful to hear a different perspective. I've checked the post-rod removal concern with the doctor, and it you're right it will take way longer than 15 days. 120 days to go back to walking is optimistic, but a possible goal. You've given me more motivation to focus on physio to prove you wrong ;D[/list]
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    Azerty12

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #8 on: March 26, 2024, 05:40:56 PM »

    Hello good luck ! I Hope it will be fine.
    Why just 5,7 cm ?
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    karlston

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #9 on: March 28, 2024, 12:40:53 PM »

    Post-surgery update

    The surgery
    After arriving early at the hospital, I had my pre-surgery preparations and some medicine to ease the nerves. I got to meet the operating team as they brought me into the OR prior to surgery. The surgery itself was successful, lasting 4-5 hours in total with the actual the operation taking ~3 hours.

    After waking up in the recovery room without any pain, Dr. Giotikas demonstrated that the nail was working correctly by clicking each leg before taking me to a private room where I'll stay for 3 nights.

    The private hospital room

    Initial recovery
    In the hospital room, I've been constantly visited by nurses to give me pain killers, antibiotics and medicine to prevent nausea. My pain has been 0/10 when still and 2/10 on the wounds when stretching. I have no muscular pain whatsoever 26 hours after the surgery -- I guess I'm one of the lucky ones for now. I've also been lucid the whole time (~90% of normal), so they didn't overdo-it on the anesthesia. I could probably work for 4+ hours a day remotely which is reassuring.

    After the surgery, I've had some mild fever (37.5oC) and what looks like an allergic reaction probably from the antibiotics. After receiving some anti-allergy medication (Cortisone) those symptoms went away.

    I had a catheter for the first night, but it was removed in the following morning.

    Dr. Giotika's physical therapist has given me compression socks and stretches to do every 45 minutes. We also practiced with the walker and I am now able to go independently to the bathroom, despite having some instability on lateral movements of my leg. I've had one or two accidental clicks on my left leg, but I was told it's nothing to be concerned about. I'm very happy with the service from the physio, Dr G., and the nursing staff.

    Hobbling around on my walker: https://imgur.com/a/P0HilZY (excuse my piss bag)

    I expected to receive anticoagulant injections in my stomach last night, but it wasn't administered yet. I'll ask the doctor to give me them today.

    The food is pretty decent, and after asking for more protein they have started giving me eggs with every meal. I've also started drinking Whey protein and collagen despite not being recommended to do so ;).

    Sleep
    Sleep has been relatively good, though it was intermittent as I was woken up by a steady stream of nurses during the night. Having ear plugs and a sleep mask has really helped.

    Next steps (hah)
    There's no much action happening right now, I'm playing the waiting game. The next key milestones are:
    • Tomorrow (3rd day after surgery) I'll be able to walk one foot at a time with the walker.
    • On Saturday (4th day after surgery) I'll be discharged to go back to the hotel
    • Next Tuesday (7th day after surgery) I'll start clicking and going to physical therapy.
    • Every two weeks I will take an x-ray to track my progress

    Upcoming challenges
    I've heard that lengthening the first 3cms is challenging, with some patients having to click under pain killers. I'll do my best to reduce inflammation in these early days and hopefully I'll click without much pain.

    Hello good luck ! I Hope it will be fine.
    Why just 5,7 cm ?
    Four main reasons:
    1) Maintaining athletic ability is very important to me.
    2) I already have long femurs compared to my tibias.
    3) If I ever decide to do tibial lengthening, increasing the femur beyond 6cm would result in a wonky leg-to-torso ratio
    4) I want to get back to walking as soon as possible.
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    jbfjbj4

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #10 on: March 28, 2024, 01:34:18 PM »

    Right it's time for a reality check. At 171cm every centimetre matters up to about 183. Your frickin 'athletic ability' or proportions only you notice is nowhere near as important as getting the maximum centimetres - you did not start at 175cm, you don't have this luxury. As an aside, why is it that every manlet with a diary is super fking concerned about playing sports?

    Get the 8cm done and enjoy actually being average height (176 aint it anywhere in Europe). You'll regret it otherwise.
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    lucindaris

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #11 on: March 28, 2024, 07:59:12 PM »

    Great to hear so you think it's doable to even do some small IT work for 4 hours a day? Also this is a price that you've paid - Femoral lengthening with X-Os  G-(Guichet) nails: 48900 Euro?
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    Azerty12

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #12 on: March 28, 2024, 11:32:50 PM »

    Thanks for Your answer. I am also really concerned about being able to do the same things as today. I am planning to do 6cm on femurs with dr guichet. Today i am able to squat 190kg and deadlift maybe 230kg. I have long tibias (36,3cm ) in proportion to my femurs (41,3). My height is 170,8 cm at my peak but usually its 169,8cm. If the first operation is good i Hope to do a the tibias for 4cm. To have a total of 10cm it would be perfect. Do you have informations about patients with good athletism before surgery having recover at 100% ?
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    DonBones

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #13 on: March 29, 2024, 08:06:40 AM »

    Thanks for Your answer. I am also really concerned about being able to do the same things as today. I am planning to do 6cm on femurs with dr guichet. Today i am able to squat 190kg and deadlift maybe 230kg. I have long tibias (36,3cm ) in proportion to my femurs (41,3). My height is 170,8 cm at my peak but usually its 169,8cm. If the first operation is good i Hope to do a the tibias for 4cm. To have a total of 10cm it would be perfect. Do you have informations about patients with good athletism before surgery having recover at 100% ?

    Everyone has a different notion of what 100% means, but for the vast majority of people this surgery means that competitive contact sports, especially if it requires agility and speed, won't ever be possible to the same standard as before the surgery. That is true even if you restrict yourself to a modest lengthening amount of say 5cm. That said, most people won't ever achieve anything noteworthy in any of these sports anyways, so if you struggle with height the trade is worth it imo.
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    First Surgery - Prof Betz - 28th July 2021 🇩🇪
    Nail Removal - Dr Becker - 13th December 2023 🇩🇪
    Lengthened: 5.00cm
    Height: 180cm
    Current Phase: Enjoying New Height :)

    lucindaris

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #14 on: March 29, 2024, 09:36:17 AM »

    if you are not doing it professionally that makes it your main source of income and want to do some normal (not professional/competitive level sports in the future) then I wouldn't care.
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    karlston

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #15 on: April 04, 2024, 11:17:56 AM »

    1 week post-op update

    Estimated height increase: 10mm (7mm from surgery, 3mm from clicking)

    The first week after the surgery, while challenging, was better than I expected. I'm trying not to be overoptimistic though as I hear the upcoming secondary inflammation phase is tough due to more tightness when clicking and the need for more clicks per day (21).

    It's been extremely helpful to have a caretaker for the first week. Having to do everything by myself would be time-consuming and stressful distracting from recovery. Also, I'm sure being alone during such a vulnerable and trying time would have gotten me to a dark place mentally.

    Pain and medication
    The pain during the day has been manageable, I'm having some issues during the night which I go into more detail below. I'm taking paracetamol every 6 hours, medicine for nerve pain once a day, and an opiod at night. Stretching also helps with pain due to tightness; definitely recommend getting very comfortable with stretching pre-op.

    I've stopped taking glucosamine, collagen, arginin, and curcumin due to concerns from Dr G. on interactions with the blood thinners. Will consider resuming it later in the distraction phase.

    Mobility
    I will not be allowed on crutches until 2-3 weeks post-op, so right now I'm relying on the wheelchair and walker. I've been progressively getting better on the walker, but it's hard to continuously use the walker for more than ~5 min at a time because my upper body gets tired. I'm able to stand still for longer periods of time though (~20min).

    It takes a bit of practice to learn the different transfer skills (in order of difficulty): walker -> chair, walker -> bed,  chair -> bed, walker -> toilet, walker -> shower seat, walker-> car seat. They all become easier with good upper body strength, so I'm very thankful that I prepped with weighted dips pre-op; 100% recommend.

    Athens and the hotel
    Athens has been good so far. Taxis are widely available through and quick through Uber. Wolt for food delivery has many good protein-rich options. It's also been very sunny, which helps with the mood :D

    The Grand Hyatt hotel at Athens was the right decision. I had to annoy them a little bit to improve the accessible room (remove carpets, fix loose handles in bathroom), but after settling in it's been great. There is a nice rooftop area to get sun with a great view of the Acropolis and pools with easy access that will be helpful when I'm cleared for it. The hotel was not much more expensive than Novotel when staying for a full month but the facilities seem much better.


    Hotel rooftop pool and view

    Sleep
    I've been sleeping worse these past 3 days (1-3 hours) due to a burning pain in the muscle I'm using to stabilize my feet and legs. If I lay down straight, I feel pain in my hamstrings. When raising my feet, on the quads. When externally rotating, on the adductors. When internally rotating, on the IT band. There is no position where it's comfortable. I was able to to get slightly better sleep last night by using a cold pack, supporting my feet with additional pillows, and switching positions (sleep in 90min intervals).

    Dr G. thinks it's micro sprains in the muscles due to stretching. However, I'm barely stretching my IT band and adductors but still feel the burning sensation on those. I'm worried that the secondary inflammation phase could be arriving earlier than expected. If so, I think it would make sense to start earlier on the anti-inflammatories.

    The sleep I do get seems to be low quality according to my watch. My RHR is up to 72bpm (from ~52bpm pre-op) and HRV down to 20ms (from ~55ms pre-op) which worries me, but I hope it goes back as I recover from the surgery.

    In days 4 & 5 post-op I was peeing ~5x during the night despite drinking about 10% of what I'm peeing out. I suspect this was liquid being expunged from my previously swollen legs.

    Clicking
    From past diaries and speaking with other patients here, it seems that easiness of clicking is somewhat luck based. I've been lucky that clicking has been relatively straightforwards so far, being able to click by myself from day 1.

    My left leg barely needs any rotation to click, and I can do 15 clicks in under a minute.

    My right leg takes more rotation to get a click and I feel much more pressure on my muscles. It was taking ~8 min at the start for 15 clicks and now I'm down to ~3 min.

    What I've found is that the most important thing is to completely relax your leg muscles (as if your leg was detached from your body).

    BJR team
    I'm getting daily visits from a nurse and physiotherapist that work for Dr G. full time. They've been empathetic and supportive and are quick to respond. There's also a dedicated driver that takes us to physio every day (7 euro) and can pick up clothes for laundry (10 euro).

    Next steps
    • Tomorrow (+9d after surgery) I'll start on the stationary bike.
    • Monday (+12d after surgery) Physio will get more intense, so far it's been just stretching and relaxation
    • Monday (+12d after surgery) Inflammation phase is scheduled to begin, will start taking anti-inflammatories and increasing the click rate
    • 21 days post-op I will start on the anti-gravity treadmill



    Great to hear so you think it's doable to even do some small IT work for 4 hours a day? Also this is a price that you've paid - Femoral lengthening with X-Os  G-(Guichet) nails: 48900 Euro?
    Yes, it would be doable if everything goes perfectly. Often it doesn't. Dr. G. recommends taking at least the first 2 full weeks from work. After going through the process I can 100% agree with this. I personally took 6 weeks of work, but I might reduce that to 4 weeks if things go well.

    Thanks for Your answer. I am also really concerned about being able to do the same things as today. I am planning to do 6cm on femurs with dr guichet. Today i am able to squat 190kg and deadlift maybe 230kg. I have long tibias (36,3cm ) in proportion to my femurs (41,3). My height is 170,8 cm at my peak but usually its 169,8cm. If the first operation is good i Hope to do a the tibias for 4cm. To have a total of 10cm it would be perfect. Do you have informations about patients with good athletism before surgery having recover at 100% ?
    I would look at the V21 diary who did 6cm with Dr G. in 2021. He seems to have gotten most of the athleticism back. I'll let you know how it goes for me in 2 years time  ;)
    « Last Edit: April 04, 2024, 12:14:18 PM by karlston »
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    earti193

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #16 on: April 16, 2024, 11:58:55 AM »

    Hi! Any update on how you are going? Really appreciate the detailed thread here. I'm booked for 17 June with Dr Guichet in London, femurs with G-Nail, hoping for 6-7cm depending on how things go.
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    karlston

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #17 on: April 18, 2024, 05:17:39 PM »

    Post x-rays update (+22d post-op)

    Estimated height increase: 25mm

    It has now been 3 weeks post-op, and I have had my first check-up with Dr. Giotikas to look at x-rays. I'm well recovered from the surgery and my wounds have healed nicely. On the negative side: I'm still struggling with sleep due to muscle tightness and it has become much more difficult to click my right leg.

    First follow-up with Dr. Giotikas
    I had my first check-up just under 3 weeks after surgery, which is later than what I expected. Fortunately, everything is looking good:
    • My range of motion is in a good state compared to before surgery.
    • The x-rays show the expected distraction length and early signs of consolidation.
    • The nail shows no signs of bending and the alignment looks good.
    • My mobility and strength are better than expected and I've been cleared to walk with crutches up to 2 hours a day.

    X-rays


    Mobility
    I was cleared for using crutches and the anti-gravity treadmill as of last Thursday (15 days post-op). It's refreshing to be able to walk after 2 weeks on a wheelchair and walker. I'm positively surprised that my muscles seem to have not atrophied too much as my walk is looking good with ~50% of BW support on the treadmill. I've also been able to walk in the hotel pool with the water about waist-high.

    Here's me walking with crutches 3-weeks post-op:



    I'll try to get a video of my walking gait without crutches on the gravity treadmill next week.

    Sleep
    As I've entered the inflammation stage since week 2, sleep has continued to be poor. Dr. G. has prescribed me sleeping meds, but they have not helped much. I'm averaging 3-5 hours of sleep as I need to get up due to muscle soreness every ~1-2 hours.

    I've had one good night of 6 hours of sleep so far. Hoping I can become consistent so I can get back to work.

    Clicking
    Clicking has unfortunately has been much harder on my right leg since the inflammation phase. I had a few sessions that took 30-45 minutes just for my right leg with significant stress. Now I'm down to ~15 min but still having to push through tightness and pain. I'd rate the stress levels as 7/10 and pain as 6/10 and I'm drenched in cold sweat after every session. My day revolves around getting ready for clicking, clicking and recovering from clicking.

    I heard it gets easier post ~3.5cm, so I'm holding on to that hope. I'm a relatively tough guy but the thought of having to click through this pain for the rest of the process is terrifying.

    After my own experience and speaking with 5 other patients currently here, clicking is by far the most difficult part of the process.

    Here is how easy clicking was in the first week:

    It would be amazing to get back to that.

    BJR team
    I've stopped getting daily visits from the nurse and PT in the hotel as I'm independent now. They still show up when needed, for example to show me how to use the crutches. I've been happy with their support and expertise. My only complaint is that they sometimes are slow to respond to Whatsapp messages that are not urgent.

    Next steps
    • +28d post-op I will move from the hotel to an Airbnb
    • +50-60d post-op I will finish lengthening


    Hi! Any update on how you are going? Really appreciate the detailed thread here. I'm booked for 17 June with Dr Guichet in London, femurs with G-Nail, hoping for 6-7cm depending on how things go.

    Sorry for taking this long, it was hard to find the time with the more intense process during the inflammation phase. Wishing you the best during the operation with Dr. Guichet.
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    earti193

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #18 on: May 06, 2024, 02:47:35 PM »

    Damn my friend looks like a tough couple of weeks! Really hope your stress levels decrease going forwards and clicking pain starts to abate. Keep it up looks like you're follow up went really well.
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    Bagga

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #19 on: May 09, 2024, 03:13:22 AM »

    Hey LLers,

    I’ve been lurking on these forums for almost two years. It has been an incredibly useful resource towards my decision on if and how to lengthen.

    In April 2024, I will have a bilateral lengthening surgery with Dr. Giotikas in Athens using the weight-bearing G-Nail to lengthen my femurs by 5cm. I’m sharing this diary with as much detail and data as I can in case it’s useful for others who are considering the surgery.

    Motivation
    My height puts me at the 25th percentile in my country. I struggle to consistently be confident and outgoing due to a frequent preoccupation with height, which hinders my social wellbeing. I believe being raised (literally) to average height combined with therapy will lead to an improved self-perception and a more fulfilling life.

    Stats
    Basics: 29, Male, European
    Starting height: 171cm (target after surgery: 176cm)
    Wingspan: 176cm
    Weight: 76kg (target before surgery: 73kg)
    Fitness:
    • 5k pace: 4:30 min/km
    • 10k pace: 4:45 min/km
    • Squat: 115 kg 1RM
    • RDL: 130 kg 1RM
    • Bench press: 80 kg 1RM

    Operation
    I have the following constraints for the operation:
    • Low risk of complications.
    • Maintain normal proportions.
    • Eventually get back to 90% of my current fitness level.
    • Get back to walking as soon as possible.
    • Europe based.

    Which resulted in the following decisions:
    • Length: 5cm as my femurs are already slightly disproportionate to my tibias, and the moderate length will lead to a shorter turnaround time and higher likelihood of getting back to my previous fitness level. Depending on my perception after the surgery, I would consider lengthening a “safe” amount (4cm) on my tibias in ~2 years to reach 180cm and better proportions.
    • Surgeon: Dr. Giotikas as he’s one of the most experienced surgeons in Europe, and there are multiple successful diary entries in this forum. He has been empathetic, patient and informative in our consultations so far.
    • Nail: G-Nail looks to be the most reliable weight-bearing nail in the market right now. My understanding is that a weight-bearing nail will cause less muscle atrophy and lead to faster recovery compared to an NWB nail. The downside is the clicking mechanism which is more complex and stressful.

    Expected timeline
    • -90 days (now) - Start preparation
    • -3 days - Go to Athens
    • +0 days - Operation
    • +7 days - Distraction phase and PT begins
    • +30 days - Work remotely while doing PT
    • +57 days - Consolidation phase begins
    • +60-90 days - Go back to home city with less frequent PT
    • +120 days - Walk is mostly back to normal
    • +150 days - Consolidation phase ends
    • + 360 days - Rods removal
    • + 375 days - Can gradually resume intense activities (running, tennis)
    • + 620 days - (potentially) Start lengthening 4cm on tibias

    Preparation
    Stretching: Quads, hamstrings, hip adductors, IT band stretch routine in the mornings & evenings.

    Gym: Resistance training twice a week to maintain muscle mass. I have large thigh muscles so I'm unsure if it’s best to let those muscles atrophy before the surgery or keep them to maintain strength.

    Equipment & supplements:
    • Collagen (muscle, bone and skin)
    • Glucosamine (joint and soft tissue)
    • Whey (protein)
    • Omega-3 (anti-inflammatory)
    • Curcumin (anti-inflammatory)
    • Multivitamin: B, C, D, Zinc, K2
    • Melatonin and Magnesium Bisglycinate (sleep)
    • CBD (pain management & sleep)
    • Compression sleeves (circulation)
    • Mattress topper (sleep)
    • Laptop & Oculus (entertainment)
    • Yoga mat and stretching belt (home stretching)
    • Grabber tool
    • Hot & cold packs

    Would love advice on what else to consider.

    Recovery
    I plan to stay 4 weeks in either the Grand Hyatt or Novotel in Athens and the remaining 4+ weeks in an Airbnb. It would be great to hear experiences from other patients that have stayed in Athens regarding accommodation. I’m also unsure whether to hire a caretaker or not.

    Estimated costs
    • Surgery: €48,900
    • Rod removal: €4,200
    • Accommodation: €100 euro * 60 days = €6,000
    • Food: €50 * 60 days = €3,000
    • Plane tickets: €300
    • Ground transportation: €500
    Total: €62900

    Next posts
    I’ll try to capture in my follow-up posts:
    • Pre-op blood work & x-rays.
    • Surgery experience.
    • Recovery experience & videos.
    • Post-recovery blood work & x-rays.

    Let me know what other information would be useful.

    You can do 8cm instead of 5cm.
    It is safe length.
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    WishMeLuck

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #20 on: May 12, 2024, 08:53:47 AM »

    Your experience with clicking the G-Nail is EXACTLY what happened to me.

    Clicking the right leg was very difficult after 2cm and it wasted me hours every day and became a torture.

    Seems like there are people that this doesn't happen to them, but for me this was exactly the experience. You can check my diary.

    I hope it will become easier for you somehow.
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    wes07

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #21 on: May 12, 2024, 03:43:27 PM »

    Why did the PT team stop visiting you? Shouldn't visit you r times a week? Do you pay for PT? Are you able to do PT by yourself?
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    Silzz

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #22 on: May 12, 2024, 11:49:40 PM »

    Your experience with clicking the G-Nail is EXACTLY what happened to me.

    Clicking the right leg was very difficult after 2cm and it wasted me hours every day and became a torture.

    Seems like there are people that this doesn't happen to them, but for me this was exactly the experience. You can check my diary.

    I hope it will become easier for you somehow.
    I'm one of those lucky patients that clicking was extremely easy for me on both legs. Most of the time I spent no more than 10 minutes each leg. I flew back home couple days ago after ~8cm lengthening (2.5 months total).

    Why did the PT team stop visiting you? Shouldn't visit you r times a week? Do you pay for PT? Are you able to do PT by yourself?
    The PT person stopped visiting us at the hotel after about 1-2 weeks post surgery but we still went to the PT center 4 days a wk (MTThF)
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    earti193

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #23 on: May 28, 2024, 04:14:04 PM »

    Any update on your progress? Over a month, hope you're doing ok.
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    karlston

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #24 on: June 02, 2024, 12:29:11 PM »

    End of distraction update

    Height increase: 57mm L / 60mm R

    Days since operation: +67

    Final height: 178cm


    It has been a long time since the last update. I went back to work, which has taken a lot of my time.

    I’m happy to say that I’ve finished lengthening, successfully reaching the upper limit of my goal (6cm), while also correcting a minor discrepancy between femurs. While the process has been challenging, I’m lucky to not have had any complications, and still retained a good amount of muscle.

    Clicking
    At the time of my last update, I was struggling significantly with clicks. It did get easier (5/10 stress) after I took a break day and reduced the distraction rate to 0.8mm (12 clicks).

    However, around 5 weeks post-op I had a friend over and decided to go to the beach for a few hours. The extra strain on my muscles from that day caused another ~10 days of stressful clicks (8/10 stress).

    I would strongly recommend taking it easy with your muscles during the distraction phase, especially if you have significant muscle mass around the femur. The biggest mistake I’ve made during the process was going too hard too soon.

    A few other things that helped with clicking:
    • Taking a warm shower or using a warm compress before clicking
    • Raising your foot progressively as you gain more length. I progressed from 1 pillow -> 2 pillows (@20mm) -> 3 pillows (@45mm)
    • Not rushing the clicks, taking as much time as needed and stretching into it. If you put too much force, not only will it cause more pain, but it will condition your brain to be more stressed for the next clicking session.
    • Putting on something distracting that you enjoy while you click. My drug of choice was binging Haikyuu.
    • For the worst days, CBD helped. However, the Dr. said there is a study linking CBD to slower consolidation.
    • Reducing the rate to 12 clicks.

    Moving to Airbnb
    After just under a month of staying at the hotel I moved to an Airbnb. It was definitely the right decision, as I had more space and independence. I felt more like a functioning adult and less of a vegetable.

    I still strongly recommend staying in an accessible room of a hotel for at least the first 3 weeks. You will have a very hard time showering or going to the bathroom otherwise.

    Things to look for or ask the owner when getting an Airbnb in Athens:
    • Make sure it’s on the ground floor. Very few buildings have a lift.
    • The shower box must be big enough to fit a showering seat.
    • It’s best to find an Airbnb near the Physical Therapy center, as you’ll be going there 4 times a week. I made the mistake of getting a farther out Airbnb and was spending 50m a day uncomfortable in a car.
    • Check that there are no or very few steps to access the place.
    • You can negotiate a cheaper price for a long-term stay by directly contacting the owner. I got ~30% off.

    Lengthening
    I’ve decided to stop at the upper limit of my goal: 5.7cm on my left (shorter) leg, and 6cm on my right. Although my original post said I was at 171cm, I believe that was a measurement error, as I later measured 172cm before clicking and now have been measured at ~178cm. I'm happy with this height, as it's slightly above average where I live, and I believe I have a high likelihood to get back to doing sports at a similar level.

    Final x-ray:


    Beyond 4.5cm, muscle tightness got pretty bad. I would need to wake up and stretch ~3 times during the night to get back to sleep. It was also hard to sit down and work for more than 1 hour at a time without having to stretch. The PT sessions became increasingly painful, especially the quads and glutes stretches. I would recommend doubling down on quads and glutes stretches before you do the surgery.

    At the end of distraction, the tightness has slightly decreased every day. Although I don’t have the same mobility yet, it feels really good to have positive progress rather than negative.

    Mobility
    At the Airbnb I was walking with crutches most of the time, only using my chair to move large things or working.

    At the physio, I was walking for 15 minutes with 50-40% support at ~1.6km/hr (slow, I know). My walk looked very natural.

    Now after distraction I’ve been taking a few unassisted steps every day. My walk is looking pretty good, although slow. The doctor was (I think purposely) ambiguous if I could or couldn’t take unassisted steps, but I will continue to progressively walk more every day. I might upload a video later.

    Sleep
    Sleep has gotten better at around ~4 weeks post op. I was able to consistently get 5-6 hours of sleep. Then it has gradually improved, especially recently that I can comfortably sleep on my side.

    Work
    I went back to work part-time +33 days post-op, then full-time 2 weeks later. It was challenging to work while keeping up with the PT and clicking routine. I would say I was around a ~70% level of productivity as before. Though before the operation I would normally put in 55-60 hrs/week at work.

    Trip back
    The trip back was a bit taxing, but manageable. Dr. G’s driver took me to the airport, where they had a special assistance person assigned to me. They wheeled me around, going through priority queues (felt like a VIP), until the flight was ready. Since the plane was parked outside, they put me on a lift to get on the aircraft, before the other passengers boarded.

    I had some pain in my leg from sitting down for too long, but I stood up and stretched my legs 3 times during the 3hr flight which helped.

    Height and perception
    I’ve started noticing a big difference from 3cm onwards. The nurses and PT staff were noticeably shorter at every 1 cm increment. At around ~177cm, I stopped having the feeling I used to have around men taller than me of being subtly inferior. I felt more on “equal footing”. Also, a significant number of women started looking “petite” to me, when before that was rare.

    At the airport on my way back, I was within a crowd for the first time. I definitely felt more confident and masculine than before.

    I met my dad again recently who is ~174cm. The difference in cm is small, but the perception is wildly different and noticeable. I’m very skeptical that you can hide this change from your closest friends and family, unless you’re already very tall.

    Overall, so far I feel like I got exactly what I did this for. However, it’s early days, so it’s possible that the effect can wear off over time. I’ll keep you guys posted.

    Consolidation
    I expect the consolidation phase to take another 3 months. I’ve been given strengthening exercises mostly for the glutes, and have been recommended to continue the stretching routine. As mentioned above I will gradually resume walking.

    For supplementation I will continue on Vit D, Calcium, Milk, and Whey protein and will start taking L-arginine for the blood flow.

    BJR team
    I am happy with the experience and support from the BJR team. The head nurse (V), head PT (H) and the PT assigned to me at the center (N) were standouts.

    Dr. G. seemed to be a capable surgeon. My alignment, consolidation so far and scarring are great. All the other patients I’ve met had overall successful journeys. The complications that happened were few, but well managed by the team.

    My only complaints are:
    • Responsiveness via Whatsapp: Dr. G. ignored some of my non-urgent messages or replied days later. I’ve heard from other patients that it gets worse after you leave Athens.
    • Difficulty clicking is somewhat normalized. Don’t get me wrong – the nurse/PT are available to help with clicking if you ask. And if you’re having a hard time they will prescribe you anti-inflammatories which help a bit. But Dr. G seems to consider 5/10 stress when clicking twice a day “normal”. Clicking is by far the most difficult part of the process (confirmed by every patient I met there), and I would suggest that the team invests more to make it easier. For example clearer instructions on what to avoid to not make it harder, specialized pillows, help with clicking daily in the Physio center.

    From my own experience and from reading other diaries, I really do believe Dr. G. is the best value surgeon. While the amenities are not “premium” (Hospital, PT center), they are good enough, and the people were great. I would not consider going for a cheaper surgeon in Europe, and I would try to understand if I’m getting much more from an expensive surgeon to be worth the cost.



    Damn my friend looks like a tough couple of weeks! Really hope your stress levels decrease going forwards and clicking pain starts to abate. Keep it up looks like you're follow up went really well.
    Thanks mate! At the time when you don't know if you'll be able to endure clicking, things get pretty hard and you think about quitting. But it worked out in the end. In retrospect I should've taken more breaks from clicking during that time, and slowed down the process.

    Your experience with clicking the G-Nail is EXACTLY what happened to me.

    Clicking the right leg was very difficult after 2cm and it wasted me hours every day and became a torture.

    Seems like there are people that this doesn't happen to them, but for me this was exactly the experience. You can check my diary.

    I hope it will become easier for you somehow.

    Thanks for the wishes! I wonder why they don't make a mirrored version of the nail so you can get a soft click first on the right leg. Feels like an oversight.

    Why did the PT team stop visiting you? Shouldn't visit you r times a week? Do you pay for PT? Are you able to do PT by yourself?

    There are two teams (1) Dr. G. has a nurse and PT person (2) There is an associated PT center with about ~5 staff. Both were included in the original price.

    Dr. G's team visited me twice a day for the first week to make sure I was ok post-surgery and teach me how to click. After that they would visit once a week or when I asked.

    I would go to the PT center 4 times a week during the whole process.

    You can do stretches at home, but it's not the same as having someone else push you. Also at PT you get to use the anti-gravity treadmill and 3 machines: shock therapy, pressure therapy, and cold therapy. I would definitely recommend doing PT at a center during the distraction phase.
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    limby101

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #25 on: June 03, 2024, 03:15:20 PM »

    Hey
    Congratulations for your achievement.
    Taking few steps unassisted 67 days after the surgery is amazing.
    Knowing what you know now, do you think you would have chosen to do precice instead of Gnail? If money wasn't an issue at all?
    I wonder if having a magnetic device instead of a clicking mechanism, but not being able to put weight (unlike Gnail) is a worthwhile tade of...

    Also, is it possible to upload a pictures showing the scars?
    Thanks and best wishes
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    earti193

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #26 on: June 09, 2024, 01:00:28 PM »

    Congratulations! That’s a phenomenal achievement to complete your distraction in that time and even take a few steps unassisted. Looking forward to hearing more about the consolidation phase.

    I have my surgery in exactly one week… wish me luck.
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    Omar

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #27 on: June 09, 2024, 03:18:08 PM »

    I plan to do 4.5 cm with the dr. Giotikas with the Precise 2 method. Is it a good choice?
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    karlston

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #28 on: June 09, 2024, 07:33:10 PM »

    Some follow-ups from the previous post:

    Walking 1 week after distraction, +69 days post surgery.


    Scars



    Not much changed since the last post. I'm walking unassisted about 50% of the time in my apartment. And I have been able to make small continuous trips within a few hundred meters from my apartment without crutches.

    I'm currently looking to book a weekly PT session and start frequenting a public pool to practice my walking.



    Congratulations! That’s a phenomenal achievement to complete your distraction in that time and even take a few steps unassisted. Looking forward to hearing more about the consolidation phase.

    I have my surgery in exactly one week… wish me luck.

    Good luck man, wishing you the best! Please DM me or post here if any info would be useful to you.

    Hey
    Congratulations for your achievement.
    Taking few steps unassisted 67 days after the surgery is amazing.
    Knowing what you know now, do you think you would have chosen to do precice instead of Gnail? If money wasn't an issue at all?
    I wonder if having a magnetic device instead of a clicking mechanism, but not being able to put weight (unlike Gnail) is a worthwhile tade of...

    Also, is it possible to upload a pictures showing the scars?
    Thanks and best wishes

    Appreciate it!

    I would still choose the G-nail. Walking 2 months sooner and preventing more muscle atrophy is worth the short term sacrifice for me.

    I've attached some pictures of the scars. I'm applying silicon cream every day to help with scarring.

    I plan to do 4.5 cm with the dr. Giotikas with the Precise 2 method. Is it a good choice?

    I'm not an expert, so I suggest reading other diaries, or ideally asking an experienced doctor. I did meet a precise femur patient while I was in Athens. My limited understanding about the tradeoffs of going with precice are:

    Advantages:
    - Not having to click (this is a huge advantage)
    - Can be reverted (not such a big deal as accidental clicks are rare)

    Disadvantages:
    - More risk of nail bending
    - Having to use a walker and chair for the whole distraction process
    - More time to get back to walking
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    Omar

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #29 on: June 09, 2024, 08:18:51 PM »

    Thanks for these informations. But how do you click? do you have to bend your leg? I'm not very flexible :-\
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    limby101

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    Re: Dr. Giotikas 5cm bilateral femurs with G-Nail (detailed)
    « Reply #30 on: June 10, 2024, 11:23:41 PM »

    How can you explain the 'stress' of clicking?
    Is it because of the posture which is uncomfortable, or is it the click itself being painful?
    I had an ilizarov (tibia) and in the first month turning the screws felt super stressful as I actually felt the bone move and it felt like a pressure. I guess it was about 50 percent stress out of fear of the actual manipulation, rather than actual pain. But the pain indeed came few hours after the lengthening, usually at nights with muscle ache and cramps. I now recall muscle cramps during sleep that made me jump into waking up. But maybe this is just my experience...
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