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[Metaphyglv]

Im going to do the most i can to not gatekeep or underestimate the suffering of some guys because their height, but, here are some dudes willing to break their legs and spend above 50k being just a little bit under the average height where they live or even taller sometimes.
I mean, come on, some of you who are in a average range obviously have some social anxiety problem and your body its the main preoccupation about your aspect that trigger the anxiety.
Thats a psychological state that has developed through past experiences and it makes you risk your health huguley just to confront some body dysmorphia that a teraphys can cure in some weeks or months.
Im not talking about short guys, i understand anyone who is in the low end of the distribution and they are barely taller than women or even shorter... a lot shorter in some cases. But for those who are in the average range, CLL surgery its not the way, as a high risk procedure, not just really expensive, but risky, and if you think that a couple cm more will solve your dating problems or inferiority complex problems, the real matter its very likely in other thing, not your height.
Im not just a random dude in the internet, i have some notion about behavioral therapy and, even my english sucks, i know what im talking about if i guess that a lot of guys here have a severe body dysmorphia and a social axiety problem that can be solved in therapy, and after that you will no longer even think about this forum or going to some clinic in the other side of the world to do this procedure.
Again, im not talking about the short guys, as a (very) short guy of myself i understand that it's difficult to confront some things in life, mainly dating, but about the guys who complain about how much they hate being whatever height they are, in a CLL forum, being, well, just average height guys.

[finertoga]

I mean I’m 5’5.5” and obviously the benefits of going from short to average are much higher than average to tall, but there are still benefits for the latter. The latter is more a point of vanity, an obsession with being the “perfect” height. But I don’t see it any different than a pretty girl who gets filler and Botox to become even prettier. I say let people do what they want to do. When you’re already tall (6’0”+) and want to get the surgery then I’d say there’s a serious psychological issue there.

[sxxa]

While I agree with some of your assertions, I would like to give you some perspective; as an almost 5'9" person, I can tell you there is this pressure you feel around people taller than you, it can affect deeply your social life, your self perception, your self esteem. And, it's not limited exclusevely to the shortest ranges of the spectrum.

I agree, we all should see a therapist before going to the procedure, but as a support for the decision. Yes, it's an extreme surgery, but in my opinion its worth it. I would argue (in my own opinion) there are 2 kind of people who should not going for it, the taller guys, and the extremely short ones. The taller ones like the shortest people won't see a sustantial difference in terms of looks in general, like that bodybuilder freak monstrosity who went with butcher Buldu, or for the contrary a 5'2 person who will risk A LOT to get the max height possible and still be short.

Someone in my height range would see the most benefit.

There are a lot of nuances and details, and everything vary from person to person. But that would be my two cents.

[TheDream]

It’s an interesting topic. Almost all data on the subject shows that going from say 172 cm (5’7.5”) to say 179 cm (5’10”) has the largest positive result on increasing dating pool and perhaps salary.

This is because you go from maybe 1 standard deviation below the mean male height to the mean or above it.

So if we quantify the cost benefit ratio there would be a strong objective argument in favor of guys below the mean but close.

As to body dysmorphia: I think height is a different category than say your nose or some other body part. It is the level from which you see the outside world, and your most prominent physical feature, which we know carries a lot of weight to it.

So I don’t think you could say anyone below average, but not too far below, has body dysmorphia for considering CLL. Although you couldn’t exclude it either.

But if your argument is that people too close to the mean should not do CLL where would you put the limit? One standard deviation below the mean? Two? Three?

[Metaphyglv]

It’s an interesting topic. Almost all data on the subject shows that going from say 172 cm (5’7.5”) to say 179 cm (5’10”) has the largest positive result on increasing dating pool and perhaps salary.

Not what i mean, i start from the fact that this surgery is risky, expensive and it take at least 1/3 or a year since the start and being completly able to walk normally. If you are, lets say 5'7 in north america, yeah, i could be a problem to get girls most fo the time, but if you simply cant at all, its about other thing, not your height, but things you can change, like self care, beign more interesting, getting more practise in socializing and so on. If you are in the average range and you care so much about your height that you are willing to do this procedure, very likely you have some social axiety problem and and you body dysmorphia can be solved wih some good therapy, at the point you are not going to obsess ever again about your height at this point, just some ocassional "damn, i wish i was taller", thats all
Its totally diferent to guys who are even shorter than girls, lets say 5'3, this operation its equivalent to a guy in crutches being able to walk again without them, going from being totally different to other guys to entering in the average range, the shorter one, but the average anyway, its a huge change, it makes you feel normal.

[Metaphyglv]

The taller ones like the shortest people won't see a sustantial difference in terms of looks in general, like that bodybuilder freak monstrosity who went with butcher Buldu, or for the contrary a 5'2 person who will risk A LOT to get the max height possible and still be short.

I cant disagree more, the shorter guys at that height, with ths surgery get out from being short in an abnormal range, to just short, like a guy in crutches bieng able to walk normally again, not able to run but walk at least.
Guys at 5'8 who are willing to do this risky and expensive procedurre just for being a little under average, have to realize that, if they are considereing this seriously, very likely the real problem its in other thing, not their height

[MaxwellGilmour]

I would argue that the benefit of LL differs a bit qualitatively at different heights.
Height obeys a normal variation, which means that sampling a group of people (males or females) from a population will tend to a graph like the one below.


A central peak will reflect the most frequent height of the population. Taking a step left of the peak moves you to a lower height. The height of the curve reflects the frequency the underlying height has in the population. This is slightly simplified, but works for the argument.

At a few steps to the left, we have people with mildly/moderately short posture (like 5'8"). They are near average, but still below it. Having LL at this height will move them near the peak, or even past it. Due to the range of the normal variation traversed by this height increase (ie the most "frequent" and steepest region), the practical effect is: moving from being "short" to "tall", surpassing a significant fraction of the population, height-wise – that is a huge qualitative benefit.

At lower heights (conventional short posture), the height increase gained by LL moves the patient from a point of being an "extreme statistical outlier" (or near it) to "within the normal variation." They likely will not get "tall", at least not with one lengthening – but they will become "normal". I reckon that is good reasoning for undergoing lengthening, too.

Maxwell

[Metaphyglv]

Yeah, its about being normal, thats what is all about for the shorter dudes. Stoping being the outlier to enter in the shorter side of the normal distribution.

[sxxa]

I cant disagree more, the shorter guys at that height, with ths surgery get out from being short in an abnormal range, to just short, like a guy in crutches bieng able to walk normally again, not able to run but walk at least.
Guys at 5'8 who are willing to do this risky and expensive procedurre just for being a little under average, have to realize that, if they are considereing this seriously, very likely the real problem its in other thing, not their height

My premise is in purely quantitative terms, and outcome. A extremely short person won't see a sustantial difference in terms of height even if they hipotetically go for the max height possible, also we should always remember going for the max imply several risks factors which could end badly. My opinion is risk-benefit from shorter guys (and taller) is not worth it. Risk outperform benefit. There is no point for going from 5'3 to 5'8 if you will barely be able to walk in the best case, or look like a freak with uneven proportions.

[Metaphyglv]

Reaching a short but "normal" height after being an outlier all your life, its a huge change, even if you end up being just 5'5 after that, it's totally different than being 5'2. That initial height put you in a very unfavorable position, and plus 6 or 7 cm  is a whole new word. For just "under average guys" who want to be average or taller, is just an upgrade, not a life changing surgery.

What you are implying is that if you are very short is not worth it to do this surgery, you are a lost case, go to live alone in the forest.
Nah, we are talking about individual people and their willingness to live their best life, not some utilitarianism equation. And even if is that the case, the amount of "utility" its a lot more in my case scenario than yours, i think.

[Dirona]

Reaching a short but "normal" height after being an outlier all your life, its a huge change, even if you end up being just 5'5 after that, it's totally different than being 5'2. That initial height put you in a very unfavorable position, and plus 6 or 7 cm  is a whole new word. For just "under average guys" who want to be average or taller, is just an upgrade, not a life changing surgery.

What you are implying is that if you are very short is not worth it to do this surgery, you are a lost case, go to live alone in the forest.
Nah, we are talking about individual people and their willingness to live their best life, not some utilitarianism equation. And even if is that the case, the amount of "utility" its a lot more in my case scenario than yours, i think.

There is no point telling people on this forum about all this.. For most of the people here, height is a big part of their identity and people are willing to risk anything.. Its like telling people with X money not to work hard as that stress can cause heart attack.. they won't stop.. they want to earn more than the next dude and the cycle continues

[Metaphyglv]

Going to therapy literally will fix in little time the madness of guys above 5'9 doing a CLL procedure, they don't realize that their height neurosis it's literally a neurosis, something inside them and their subjectivity.
 If they say to other people irl their plans of breaking their legs to reach 6 ft, i dont think that anybody could take that like another thing than a weird joke

[sxxa]

Reaching a short but "normal" height after being an outlier all your life, its a huge change, even if you end up being just 5'5 after that, it's totally different than being 5'2. That initial height put you in a very unfavorable position, and plus 6 or 7 cm  is a whole new word. For just "under average guys" who want to be average or taller, is just an upgrade, not a life changing surgery.

What you are implying is that if you are very short is not worth it to do this surgery, you are a lost case, go to live alone in the forest.
Nah, we are talking about individual people and their willingness to live their best life, not some utilitarianism equation. And even if is that the case, the amount of "utility" its a lot more in my case scenario than yours, i think.

To each their own. But, again, I clearly stated that's my opinion no need to get salty about it. I personally don't see logic go from extremely short to really short, I understand for individuals it can be life changing but it still doesn't change the fact that they will still be short regardless, it's not easy to grasp but is reality. Wheter you like it or not.

Same apply for people who are already way over the average levels. Makes 0 sense in the terms I already discussed.

You can argue back and forth for all I care, facts remain undisputable. This surgery surely can change lives but that's no the point I made.

[Metaphyglv]

I personally don't see logic go from extremely short to really short, I understand for individuals it can be life changing but it still doesn't change the fact that they will still be short regardless, it's not easy to grasp but is reality. Wheter you like it or not.

It's a huge change between going from 5'2 to 5'5, you get taller than the average woman (or at least the same height), taller than the average child, height stop being a disability to make some things, and so on. To me, CLL in that range is it has the biggest impact, psychologically you stop feeling like a child to become "the short dude", and for any man that is life changing, life saving in some cases.

[sxxa]

It's a huge change between going from 5'2 to 5'5, you get taller than the average woman (or at least the same height), taller than the average child, height stop being a disability to make some things, and so on. To me, CLL in that range is it has the biggest impact, psychologically you stop feeling like a child to become "the short dude", and for any man that is life changing, life saving in some cases.

And I totally agree with you, it can be a huge change to an individual, yes, BUT for the standards and society it'd be short regardless. I'm all for people who feel the need of undergoing the procedure, I don't see any reason to not to do it regardless of height (or my opinion), at the end of the day every person can make the decision they feel the best for them, it's just for me, I wouldn't do it if I were 5'2 or 5'10 for example, it's pointless. I just like to see thinks for a more pragmatic/realistic view. Can this surgery help you to feel better? Absolutely! Doesn't matter your height, but reality remains. We can argue but at the end of the day a short person will be a short person, a tall person will be a tall person. I strongly believe the best range of outcomes is from 5'6 to 5'9, you will go from short/average to above average, and that in my opinion is the best possible scenario in terms of risk-reward. And remember this surgery is not risk free, the more you increase the more risks you could have so is not black and white.

[finertoga]

I would argue that the benefit of LL differs a bit qualitatively at different heights.
Height obeys a normal variation, which means that sampling a group of people (males or females) from a population will tend to a graph like the one below.


A central peak will reflect the most frequent height of the population. Taking a step left of the peak moves you to a lower height. The height of the curve reflects the frequency the underlying height has in the population. This is slightly simplified, but works for the argument.

At a few steps to the left, we have people with mildly/moderately short posture (like 5'8"). They are near average, but still below it. Having LL at this height will move them near the peak, or even past it. Due to the range of the normal variation traversed by this height increase (ie the most "frequent" and steepest region), the practical effect is: moving from being "short" to "tall", surpassing a significant fraction of the population, height-wise – that is a huge qualitative benefit.

At lower heights (conventional short posture), the height increase gained by LL moves the patient from a point of being an "extreme statistical outlier" (or near it) to "within the normal variation." They likely will not get "tall", at least not with one lengthening – but they will become "normal". I reckon that is good reasoning for undergoing lengthening, too.

Maxwell

Beautifully put. They both have large benefits but are for different purposes. The statistical outlier is treated like a subhuman freak. His goal is not to be tall, but to reach a normal short height such that he can lead a normal life.

The 5’5”-5’8” guys goals are to go from short to average, short to tall, or average to tall. Each of these confers its own set of benefits due to the significant change of position in the distribution. You basically are entering a new “height class” if you will, the benefits of which can’t be understated.

[finertoga]

And I totally agree with you, it can be a huge change to an individual, yes, BUT for the standards and society it'd be short regardless. I'm all for people who feel the need of undergoing the procedure, I don't see any reason to not to do it regardless of height (or my opinion), at the end of the day every person can make the decision they feel the best for them, it's just for me, I wouldn't do it if I were 5'2 or 5'10 for example, it's pointless. I just like to see thinks for a more pragmatic/realistic view. Can this surgery help you to feel better? Absolutely! Doesn't matter your height, but reality remains. We can argue but at the end of the day a short person will be a short person, a tall person will be a tall person. I strongly believe the best range of outcomes is from 5'6 to 5'9, you will go from short/average to above average, and that in my opinion is the best possible scenario in terms of risk-reward. And remember this surgery is not risk free, the more you increase the more risks you could have so is not black and white.

Since you’re 5’9” your perspective is limited and flawed in regards to this. I believe I can give some insight as I have a 5’2” friend and I am about 5’5.5”. My friend is treated like a child, mocked for his height, not taken seriously by his peers. Dating is the least of his worries. He really struggles to just feel like a normal person. Most of the time his height comes up in conversation and even if he doesn’t want to think about it it gets brought up. He was bullied and treated terribly in high school.


I on the other hand experienced limited bullying about my height, although once in a while i do get snide remarks from others but it’s rare. I get rejected often for my height by women, and I feel very insecure in social settings but rarely does it come up as a topic of conversation. What I am trying to say is that if I really wanted to, I could live a “normal” life, it would just be significantly harder than someone who is 5’8”-5’9”. I can walk around and while people will obviously think I’m short, I’m not looked at as a freak. I’m within the normal distribution.

Do not discount the negative experiences of being an outlier. What you’re saying about being not worth it is like telling a burn victim who’s disfigured not to get reconstructive surgery because they’ll still be “ugly.” For the burn victim it’s not about looking attractive, it’s about looking normal. Two completely different goals.

[sxxa]

Since you’re 5’9” your perspective is limited and flawed in regards to this. I believe I can give some insight as I have a 5’2” friend and I am about 5’5.5”. My friend is treated like a child, mocked for his height, not taken seriously by his peers. Dating is the least of his worries. He really struggles to just feel like a normal person. Most of the time his height comes up in conversation and even if he doesn’t want to think about it it gets brought up. He was bullied and treated terribly in high school.


I on the other hand experienced limited bullying about my height, although once in a while i do get snide remarks from others but it’s rare. I get rejected often for my height by women, and I feel very insecure in social settings but rarely does it come up as a topic of conversation. What I am trying to say is that if I really wanted to, I could live a “normal” life, it would just be significantly harder than someone who is 5’8”-5’9”. I can walk around and while people will obviously think I’m short, I’m not looked at as a freak. I’m within the normal distribution.

Do not discount the negative experiences of being an outlier. What you’re saying about being not worth it is like telling a burn victim who’s disfigured not to get reconstructive surgery because they’ll still be “ugly.” For the burn victim it’s not about looking attractive, it’s about looking normal. Two completely different goals.

Don't get me wrong I'm really aware of how bad it is for short people, even though I haven't faced these kind of problems, I do have some body dysmorphia and really feel uncomfortable with my height even if is "normal". In fact, taller people could feel dysmorphic, but obviously that's rare, as I already stated, my opinion exclude the mental/psique factor from the equation, I'm specifically talking who would benefit the most undergoing the procedure in terms of outcome, risk-reward. It's an objective fact someone going from 5'8" to 5'11" would have the absolute best out of this. From almost average to very well above average than let's say your friend (for the sake of the argument) who is 5'2" and ending up as 5'5". He still be really short and even tho he would feel better, I personally believe his situation would go from bad to a little less bad, ergo I don't see it as a good outcome, but again that's my own personal perspective.

[finertoga]

Don't get me wrong I'm really aware of how bad it is for short people, even though I haven't faced these kind of problems, I do have some body dysmorphia and really feel uncomfortable with my height even if is "normal". In fact, taller people could feel dysmorphic, but obviously that's rare, as I already stated, my opinion exclude the mental/psique factor from the equation, I'm specifically talking who would benefit the most undergoing the procedure in terms of outcome, risk-reward. It's an objective fact someone going from 5'8" to 5'11" would have the absolute best out of this. From almost average to very well above average than let's say your friend (for the sake of the argument) who is 5'2" and ending up as 5'5". He still be really short and even tho he would feel better, I personally believe his situation would go from bad to a little less bad, ergo I don't see it as a good outcome, but again that's my own personal perspective.

I guess it depends on how you measure benefit. If you take simple quantitative measures like income and number of dates/rejections, then I would agree with you. But how do you measure bullying? Would someone measure the number of negative comments they receive on a daily basis? How about the number of times height is mentioned in conversation? How do you measure “feeling like an outcast”? The point is that these measures are hard to quantify and thus we don’t have good data to compare at various heights, but that doesn’t mean these aren’t important.


Let’s take a look at plastic surgery for example. Plastic surgery is not just for beautification. Plastic surgeons do reconstructive surgery on burn victims, car accident victims, victims of mauling, and people who have horrible disfigurements.  Here’s a gun accident victim https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2218832/Richard-Lee-Norris-face-transplant-Gun-accident-victim-given-amazing-operation-US-doctors.html who got a face transplant, for example. Now wouldn’t you say this person has gained an enormous benefit?

On the flip side, you have average to below average looking people who beautify themselves with plastic surgery to look like models. In both cases, there is a large benefit to be gained. It’s just different.

Obviously being 5’2” isn’t the same as being a disfigurement victim but you get my point. In both cases the individual is simply looking to be more normal, while others are looking for “enhancement” to look more attractive.

[RB]

I can offer my perspective on this as someone who has done the surgery and gone from around 5’4” to 5’7”. It has been a while since I’ve even been on this forum mainly because I don’t think about this surgery or height in any great detail anymore. Only reason I have stopped by is because I just had my nails removed. Based on that this surgery has totally changed my life and was the best thing I have ever done.

To give some context, when I was 5’4” I used to receive multiple comments about my height per day mainly from people I knew but sometimes complete strangers. I always felt like I wasn’t taken seriously in certain situations due to my height despite having an attractive face and other things going for me. It turned out it wasn’t in my head because after getting to 5’7”, my interactions with people have completley changed and my height is no longer so glaring and th first thing people notice about me. I’m still short, but I hear comments about my height maybe once a month or less now compared to daily and when I do hear something it’s more along the lines of a light joke, whereas people used to refer to me as tiny and juvanalise me before and it used to bother me so much.

People at taller starting heights (5’6 and up etc) will still benefit greatly from this surgery but it won’t be the life changing result that you think it will be. Going from looking freakishly short to on the taller side or short has allowed me to live a normal life and not worry about my height being a barrier in social and business interactions. Dating wise, I had a gf when I did this and am still with her so can’t say much there but attention and the way women speak to me has definitely changed.

That is just my experience but I think the higher your starting height, the less “life changing” the benefit even if it will undoubtably still improve things for you.

[finertoga]

I can offer my perspective on this as someone who has done the surgery and gone from around 5’4” to 5’7”. It has been a while since I’ve even been on this forum mainly because I don’t think about this surgery or height in any great detail anymore. Only reason I have stopped by is because I just had my nails removed. Based on that this surgery has totally changed my life and was the best thing I have ever done.

To give some context, when I was 5’4” I used to receive multiple comments about my height per day mainly from people I knew but sometimes complete strangers. I always felt like I wasn’t taken seriously in certain situations due to my height despite having an attractive face and other things going for me. It turned out it wasn’t in my head because after getting to 5’7”, my interactions with people have completley changed and my height is no longer so glaring and th first thing people notice about me. I’m still short, but I hear comments about my height maybe once a month or less now compared to daily and when I do hear something it’s more along the lines of a light joke, whereas people used to refer to me as tiny and juvanalise me before and it used to bother me so much.

People at taller starting heights (5’6 and up etc) will still benefit greatly from this surgery but it won’t be the life changing result that you think it will be. Going from looking freakishly short to on the taller side or short has allowed me to live a normal life and not worry about my height being a barrier in social and business interactions. Dating wise, I had a gf when I did this and am still with her (married now) so can’t say much there but attention and the way women speak to me has definitely changed.

That is just my experience but I think the higher your starting height, the less “life changing” the benefit even if it will undoubtably still improve things for you.

As someone who’s trying to from 5’5.5” to 5’8” this is great to hear. Hopefully I get a similar benefit to you since our starting heights are not very different. Off topic but were you open about the surgery to friends and family, and did most people notice? If people you know noticed the height change what was your excuse?

[sxxa]

I guess it depends on how you measure benefit. If you take simple quantitative measures like income and number of dates/rejections, then I would agree with you. But how do you measure bullying? Would someone measure the number of negative comments they receive on a daily basis? How about the number of times height is mentioned in conversation? How do you measure “feeling like an outcast”? The point is that these measures are hard to quantify and thus we don’t have good data to compare at various heights, but that doesn’t mean these aren’t important.


Let’s take a look at plastic surgery for example. Plastic surgery is not just for beautification. Plastic surgeons do reconstructive surgery on burn victims, car accident victims, victims of mauling, and people who have horrible disfigurements.  Here’s a gun accident victim https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2218832/Richard-Lee-Norris-face-transplant-Gun-accident-victim-given-amazing-operation-US-doctors.html who got a face transplant, for example. Now wouldn’t you say this person has gained an enormous benefit?

On the flip side, you have average to below average looking people who beautify themselves with plastic surgery to look like models. In both cases, there is a large benefit to be gained. It’s just different.

Obviously being 5’2” isn’t the same as being a disfigurement victim but you get my point. In both cases the individual is simply looking to be more normal, while others are looking for “enhancement” to look more attractive.

Yes I get your point, at the end of the day it has to do with the reasons every individual may have to undergo the procedure. Your argument doesn't exclude mine, in fact both exists at the same time, while there are people who just want to feel normal, there are some others who want to get rid of their body dysmorphia.

I'm just wanted to point out that every person may have their own reasons for go for this, wheter is for feeling normal or just to overcome their body dysmorphia, there is still an objective reality which say the taller you are, the better your life will be, and logically the tallest people on the short spectrum are the ones who will benefit the most in this regard.

[RB]

As someone who’s trying to from 5’5.5” to 5’8” this is great to hear. Hopefully I get a similar benefit to you since our starting heights are not very different. Off topic but were you open about the surgery to friends and family, and did most people notice? If people you know noticed the height change what was your excuse?

I told my parents and my gf but beyond that I didn’t tell anyone and don’t plan to. I received mixed reactions. Most of the people that noticed I was taller were people who were close in height before who I am now taller or same height as. They definitely asked me and each time I just acted dumb “really? Haha first time someone’s said that etc” a bit of a dumb response but I believed it worked in that those people don’t say anything anymore and things are normal with them. Some people didn’t say anything at all including some people i have known for over 15 years. Most of them are closer to 6 foot so that may be a reason or they noticed but didn’t say anything. Overall some people willl notice something but it’s not as bad as I thought people would be trying to out me for it and calling attention to it constantly.

[Metaphyglv]

I guess it depends on how you measure benefit. If you take simple quantitative measures like income and number of dates/rejections, then I would agree with you. But how do you measure bullying? Would someone measure the number of negative comments they receive on a daily basis? How about the number of times height is mentioned in conversation? How do you measure “feeling like an outcast”? The point is that these measures are hard to quantify and thus we don’t have good data to compare at various heights, but that doesn’t mean these aren’t important.

This

[Metaphyglv]

}

To give some context, when I was 5’4” I used to receive multiple comments about my height per day mainly from people I knew but sometimes complete strangers. I always felt like I wasn’t taken seriously in certain situations due to my height despite having an attractive face and other things going for me. It turned out it wasn’t in my head because after getting to 5’7”, my interactions with people have completley changed and my height is no longer so glaring and th first thing people notice about me. I’m still short, but I hear comments about my height maybe once a month or less now compared to daily and when I do hear something it’s more along the lines of a light joke, whereas people used to refer to me as tiny and juvanalise me before and it used to bother me so much.

}

Literally what i mean in this post. For guys who start that low its life changing in the way you end up the surprise in others of meeting someone that short. Its not about getting more girls or things like that, but feeling normal.It's an exaggerated but similar comparition that Finertoga did, you are not going to be totally like other dudes after a face reconstruction cosmetic surgery, but at least you will stop being treated like a freak, an outlier. You are going to be a short guy yeah, but inside what is usually considered short, not eye-opener kind of short

[Dirona]

I guess it depends on how you measure benefit. If you take simple quantitative measures like income and number of dates/rejections, then I would agree with you. But how do you measure bullying? Would someone measure the number of negative comments they receive on a daily basis? How about the number of times height is mentioned in conversation? How do you measure “feeling like an outcast”? The point is that these measures are hard to quantify and thus we don’t have good data to compare at various heights, but that doesn’t mean these aren’t important.


Let’s take a look at plastic surgery for example. Plastic surgery is not just for beautification. Plastic surgeons do reconstructive surgery on burn victims, car accident victims, victims of mauling, and people who have horrible disfigurements.  Here’s a gun accident victim https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2218832/Richard-Lee-Norris-face-transplant-Gun-accident-victim-given-amazing-operation-US-doctors.html who got a face transplant, for example. Now wouldn’t you say this person has gained an enormous benefit?

On the flip side, you have average to below average looking people who beautify themselves with plastic surgery to look like models. In both cases, there is a large benefit to be gained. It’s just different.

Obviously being 5’2” isn’t the same as being a disfigurement victim but you get my point. In both cases the individual is simply looking to be more normal, while others are looking for “enhancement” to look more attractive.

you are right .. I am 5 ft 6 and I am doing well in my life career wise..Dating wise, I am not that successful.. but if I were to be 5 ft 2, it would have been a mentally traumatic experience..

[AllinStryde]

I agree with RB.  I did this procedure as someone who was 5'5" and ended up just shy of 5'8".  It is completely life-changing.  I'm never going to be "tall"...but I did become "less short" and it's been a wild ride.  When you're below average...it becomes your entire identity.  Like, you're the funny, short-guy, or you're the short-doctor.  Take your pick and fill in the blank, but you're always the "short-whatever."  To finally come out of that category feels amazing.  I was never in the "muh 6-feet crowd", because I will never get there, and that's ok.  It finally feels good to be taken a bit more seriously.  Often times, I'm still the shortest guy in the room, but sometimes I'm not, whereas before, I was always the shortest person anywhere.  Or at least it always seemed that way.  Any short dudes that are out there on the fence about it, just go with a good doctor and get it done, you won't regret it.  Although, I did it with the Stryde nail, and I couldn't possibly imagine going through this being wheelchair-bound for 3 months.  Much luck to any future CLL'ers.

[Metaphyglv]

Yeah, is astronomically more life changing going from very short (as me) to short than going from short to just under average, and this at the same time its a lot more life changing than going from under average to average of slightly above average.
Its about not being always the guys who main feature is being short, and which the first thing others see in you its your size.

[finertoga]

I agree with RB.  I did this procedure as someone who was 5'5" and ended up just shy of 5'8".  It is completely life-changing.  I'm never going to be "tall"...but I did become "less short" and it's been a wild ride.  When you're below average...it becomes your entire identity.  Like, you're the funny, short-guy, or you're the short-doctor.  Take your pick and fill in the blank, but you're always the "short-whatever."  To finally come out of that category feels amazing.  I was never in the "muh 6-feet crowd", because I will never get there, and that's ok.  It finally feels good to be taken a bit more seriously.  Often times, I'm still the shortest guy in the room, but sometimes I'm not, whereas before, I was always the shortest person anywhere.  Or at least it always seemed that way.  Any short dudes that are out there on the fence about it, just go with a good doctor and get it done, you won't regret it.  Although, I did it with the Stryde nail, and I couldn't possibly imagine going through this being wheelchair-bound for 3 months.  Much luck to any future CLL'ers.

How many cm’s did you do and what segment/doctor? I’m essentially wanting to go from the same height to 5’8”. Did you notice dating became significantly easier? At 5’5ish it’s hard not to feel insecure. I would love to just walk into the room and feel like a normal person that’s just a bit below average. Like you said shortness becomes part of your identity that you just can’t shake.

[markr09]

I'm just slightly over 5'6, but I live in a country where my height is considered slightly "above avg" (3rd world SEA). Unfortunately, those statistics are only disproportionately skewed if considering also the older generations and outside the cities. I can't look away from it nowadays, but younger generations just tend to be taller, and that's statistically a fact due to better nutrition and environment especially those who live in cities and are atleast middle class. Per generation, a population can get taller, and I unfortunately took a hard hit on my dysphoria when I really started to notice a lot of people are taller than me. I personally never had much issues with my height before, but it has become really increasingly been an issue for me in the past 5 years or so when I just got more aware.

Here's the thing as well, you also don't necessarily need to be in a country where the height avg is taller than you to feel short. Honestly, just travelling to US for a duration of my work managed to make me feel incredibly smaller than how I usually feel. I had to wear high-cut shoes and wear some insoles to make me feel relatively normal. And since I somewhat travel frequently in countries like US, I just usually feel my dysphoria growing whenever I go out just to eat. I genuinely dislike using the excuse, "cause of my race" why I'm short, because I do think I still want to be as tall as the actual avg in the world.

I didn't think of wanting to do CLL for dating reasons. I think height dysphoria comes in many shapes and forms, and for most men it's usually because of women and dating. Personally for me, I just feel less confident when I see myself being shorter than the next avg guy, even if I'm athletically fit. I also feel less intimidating to a lot of people because of it(hence less personal space).  The feeling gets worse when most young women in this generation, especially those from atleast middle class families, are starting to reach my height and more. I can't count how many times I've seen a woman of my same race and in another country that's close/as/taller than me, and that just feels really emasculating personally speaking. Like I most likely wouldn't mind if a woman was taller than me per se if I was atleast in the global avg height for men. It really just feels emasculating, and I'm not even talking about dating. I'm also slightly pissed of the fact that I have short femurs(atleast from looking at it), and most pants/shorts just don't look good with me, and I kind of get it why longer legs look pretty attractive.

Personally, I do agree it's life-changing for very short people, but I also think the same for just under shorter than avg guys as well. Just being atleast part of being the slightly near or over 50% of males atleast imo, makes it look confident and intimidating enough that some people wouldn't take you as some pushover even if you're skinny af. I do think however, 5'8~5'10 is the golden avg range where I really wouldn't consider CLL, and 5'11 being really 6'0 at that point but of course individual height issues can vary from person to person. I firmly believe however, someone who's atleast 172cm with a pretty good fit body is less likely intimidated in a lot of countries. However I agree with finertoga's perspective, with an avg/above avg height at the very least most people would not mock you. I've had co-workers at 5'1~5'3 males and not once have I made fun of their height because I do know that feeling(in my own perspective), but they do get laugh at sometimes, even if they jokingly laugh with them.