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[Kala_Lund]

Nuvasive rep. had responded to my email last year saying Stryde/precise max will be available around september'23, any idea what is the status? thanks.

[GrowGrow123]

No one knows.

[DanishViking]

It's important to mention that, that is only in the US. In europe it's going to be released after 2025, according to AthensBJR. It's also going to be 30% more expensive at least in Canada according to dr marie G. So I'm personally just going to do precice, since my budget and timing doesn't allow me otherwise.

[Rockstarz5]

 
  There are some nail with full weight bearing like betzbone and Gnail, in your case, why not try those?

[DanishViking]

I can't because of budget reasons. Besides the safest nail out of those 3 and the most tested is the precice.

[Acemace86]

I heard there is a waiting list for the max as well.

[GrowGrow123]

I can't because of budget reasons. Besides the safest nail out of those 3 and the most tested is the precice.

Just do Birkholtz for $60K. Or maybe even Giotikas for like $50K. Just avoid Turkey.

[jerrytheman]

To be fair, they've been saying that for well over 2 years now. It's like the cybertruck, they'll keep pushing it back, so dont wait on it. It'll eventually come out, but no one knows when. They dont even know..it's subject to FDA clearance. It might come out next month, maybe in 2 years. Dont put your life on hold because of it.

[DanishViking]

GrowGrow123 First of all doing LL at your height at above 176 cm is not going to give you any real benefits. How it is even possible to have height dysphoria at that height baffles me. Because your're the same height as most other men and taller than all women so why feel bad about your height and the need to improve it?? This is at least my opinion from a logical based standpoint but hey at the end of the day it's your choice.

Second of all just because they're many bad clinics in Turkey doesn't mean that you shouldn't go to the few good ones. Metin K and Mustafa Yusal from AFA only has positive experiences behind them on this forum which are verified with x-rays proof, and they get many patients every year. Cyborg4life even recommended Metin K and his part of his platform. If they where as bad as the other ones, we would have heard about it by now with AT LEAST 1 bad case, but that hasn't happened.

Dr Giotikas is not a better choice in my opinion, they have been more negative cases recently and his accomodation package is way more inconvient like with most other clinics... His team doesn't answer simple answers for me that's way more alarming. Stop discriminating a clinic just because it is operating in Turkey. Imagine if their where one bad US clinic that screwed up many patients (which their actually is the Las Vegas one while doing tibias) does that mean all of the other surgeons and clinics are bad and you shouldn't go to the US? NOPE.

I agree Dr Birkholtz would probably be the even better choice, but his still about 20% more expensive, and I don't have time to wait in my life anymore. Besides having 2-3 connecting flights the total time going home would be about 15 hours which isn't going to be okay for me. But if you live closer to south Africa or to the US and have unlimited money then sure they're better choices.

[GrowGrow123]

GrowGrow123 First of all doing LL at your height at above 176 cm is not going to give you any real benefits. How it is even possible to have height dysphoria at that height baffles me. Because your're the same height as most other men and taller than all women so why feel bad about your height and the need to improve it?? This is at least my opinion from a logical based standpoint but hey at the end of the day it's your choice.

Second of all just because they're many bad clinics in Turkey doesn't mean that you shouldn't go to the few good ones. Metin K and Mustafa Yusal from AFA only has positive experiences behind them on this forum which are verified with x-rays proof, and they get many patients every year. Cyborg4life even recommended Metin K and his part of his platform. If they where as bad as the other ones, we would have heard about it by now with AT LEAST 1 bad case, but that hasn't happened.

Dr Giotikas is not a better choice in my opinion, they have been more negative cases recently and his accomodation package is way more inconvient like with most other clinics... His team doesn't answer simple answers for me that's way more alarming. Stop discriminating a clinic just because it is operating in Turkey. Imagine if their where one bad US clinic that screwed up many patients (which their actually is the Las Vegas one while doing tibias) does that mean all of the other surgeons and clinics are bad and you shouldn't go to the US? NOPE.

I agree Dr Birkholtz would probably be the even better choice, but his still about 20% more expensive, and I don't have time to wait in my life anymore. Besides having 2-3 connecting flights the total time going home would be about 15 hours which isn't going to be okay for me. But if you live closer to south Africa or to the US and have unlimited money then sure they're better choices.

I'm 6 months post-op. One of the best things I've done in my life. My height dysphoria is 100% gone.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Not saying AFA is bad. For all we know, Mustafa is actually a good surgeon. However, we can't / shouldn't actively recommend him. There are not many patient experiences from him. More time and more data points are needed. Whereas other surgeons like Birkholtz have a long and established track record.

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=84153.msg266063#msg266063

Also, Victor doesn't recommend Mustafa. So your point there is moot.

[Rockstarz5]

  Why you think giotikas is bad? At least he has a full weight bearing nail, why bash on the vegas guy?.. I dont know any bad case of he has done,

[DanishViking]

Their were someone who was thinking about sueing them because they didn't get their deposit money back, maybe I should have clarified that. His not an bad option just not the best either in my opinion. The G-nail is known to have issues such as a very hard time clicking, much more pain and clicking by itself. If you get a non union with g-nail your're screwed since it can't reverse. Pretty much all surgeons except Dr Giotikas and DR Guichet (the founder of the G-nail) doesn't recommend using it.

Also accomodation wise your're on your own and you would have to take handicap taxis many times a week, where AFA offers everything in one building concept which makes the entire process so much easier.

The vegas guy aka Dr. Kevin Debiparshad has a tendency to screw up patients Tibia and fibular alignment according to Paley, which is the most experienced surgeon in the world, when it comes to LL. He says it in this interview, I can't remember exactly where (think its under patient 3):

[informationispower]

Their were someone who was thinking about sueing them because they didn't get their deposit money back, maybe I should have clarified that. His not an bad option just not the best either in my opinion. The G-nail is known to have issues such as a very hard time clicking, much more pain and clicking by itself. If you get a non union with g-nail your're screwed since it can't reverse. Pretty much all surgeons except Dr Giotikas and DR Guichet (the founder of the G-nail) doesn't recommend using it.

Also accomodation wise your're on your own and you would have to take handicap taxis many times a week, where AFA offers everything in one building concept which makes the entire process so much easier.

The vegas guy aka Dr. Kevin Debiparshad has a tendency to screw up patients Tibia and fibular alignment according to Paley, which is the most experienced surgeon in the world, when it comes to LL. He says it in this interview, I can't remember exactly where (think its under patient 3):

It is pretty funny how from praising giotikas so much you turned 180 degrees. Now you praise AFA the same way... You should stop being so invested in your potential choices just because you want to convince yourself you are making the right decision.. But more importantly, stop recommending surgeons to other users based on nothing more to your guy's feeling

[GrowGrow123]

The vegas guy aka Dr. Kevin Debiparshad has a tendency to screw up patients Tibia and fibular alignment according to Paley, which is the most experienced surgeon in the world, when it comes to LL. He says it in this interview, I can't remember exactly where (think its under patient 3):

This is misinformation. Debiparshad has never butchered anyone (that I'm aware of). Was he less than perfect in some things? Perhaps. He's definitely not as good or as experienced as say Paley or Rozbruch. But you can't equate it with anything Turkish surgeons have done.

You have to understand that Paley and Debiparshad have some professional animosity towards each other for personal reasons. So Paley isn't exactly the most objective person when it comes to that.

[DanishViking]

I don't agree with that. The guy on Cyborg4lifes podcast, definitly had some issues afterwards, and if you mess the tibia and fibula alignment up you have already butchered a patient, cuz they can't walk without pain and destroying their legs further...

[MaheshDalle]

DanishViking is such a big hypocrite. This guy is not able to make up his own mind and starts praising the surgeon whoever he is leaning towards while putting down the other surgeons just to convince himself that he is making the right choice.

[tallmen]

DanishViking is such a big hypocrite. This guy is not able to make up his own mind and starts praising the surgeon whoever he is leaning towards while putting down the other surgeons just to convince himself that he is making the right choice.

According to him afa turkish butchers are better than EU surgeons lol.

[DanishViking]

I'm just stating the ugly truth that not all surgeons in Turkey are terrible. No need to cry about that guys. I have even said multiple times that they're better choices, than them if your're not on a budget. Just because a clinic is a part of EU doesn't necessarily make them better. Look at Dr Betz who destroyed so many patients from one of the countries with the best healthcare Germany and the doctor from las Vegas in the US who still doesn't know how to do tibia lengthening without issues...

Mahesh Dalle - I have done way more research than you and found that Afa in my opinion is the better choice than Dr Giotikas,
especially after contacting AthensBJR and the death incident. I have stated multiple reasons why, so if you think I'm wrong give me some actual logic arguments instead of just bashing me personally. That is something children do, not adults...

Overandover - please give som solid proof that proves why Afa are turkish buthers what patients have they butchered? They only have positive verified experiences on here even tho they get hundreds patients a year. Dr Giotikas actually has negative cases just very few of them and even one death incident. So stop acting so childish and like all Turkish surgeons are bad, because the truth is that this isn't the reality...

GrowGrow123 - Your're the joke who has a bias against Turkish surgeons just because they're turkish nothing more... Talk about having double standards accusing me of having a bias. But congrats 2% more women in the US wanna match with you on tinder who of course has the best morals / personality in the world and women definitely before couldn't live with the fact that you were only 12 cm taller than them. Now that you're 18 cm taller than them it makes the huge difference that makes them swarm around you.

Guys don't accuse me of having a bias, when all of you don't like AFA just because they're turkish nothing more. That's having double standards to the point that it should be illegal.

Chao.

[Maison]

This is misinformation. Debiparshad has never butchered anyone (that I'm aware of). Was he less than perfect in some things? Perhaps. He's definitely not as good or as experienced as say Paley or Rozbruch. But you can't equate it with anything Turkish surgeons have done.

You have to understand that Paley and Debiparshad have some professional animosity towards each other for personal reasons. So Paley isn't exactly the most objective person when it comes to that.

I don't know much about AFA, so I won't mention it.
But I don't think Debiparshad is a good doctor.
Have you read this GQ article? 　
Debiparshad's patient in this article has an obvious knock-knee.　

https://www.gq.com/story/leg-lengthening
https://media.gq.com/photos/6320e424989415f64c739a3c/master/w_1600,c_limit/GQ1022_LegLengthing_04c.jpg

I support Paley's opinion.

[Acemace86]

That x-ray appears to be from a female

[GrowGrow123]

GrowGrow123 - Your're the joke who has a bias against Turkish surgeons just because they're turkish nothing more... Talk about having double standards accusing me of having a bias. But congrats 2% more women in the US wanna match with you on tinder who of course has the best morals / personality in the world and women definitely before couldn't live with the fact that you were only 12 cm taller than them. Now that you're 18 cm taller than them it makes the huge difference that makes them swarm around you.

Guys don't accuse me of having a bias, when all of you don't like AFA just because they're turkish nothing more. That's having double standards to the point that it should be illegal.

Why are you making this personal, lol? I had height dysphoria. Financially, the money wasn't an issue. So I fixed it. No more LL for me. I'm happy with just femurs. I hope you have the same positive quality of life experience that I did.

I explicitly said that I don't know if this Mustafa is a butcher or not. What I do know is three things:

1) Turkey's cosmetic surgery industry is corrupt and unregulated. It's a systemic issue that has little to do with any individual surgeon. You're simply uninformed if you believe the safety standards and regulations in Turkey are up to the standard set in either the US or the EU.

2) Medical school in Turkey is simply not up to the standard or vigor of medical school in the US. The best medical schools are here.

3) There just isn't a whole lot of cosmetic lengthening data points from AFA. It's hard to positively recommend a place with this being the case. If you believe otherwise, please inform us. When you search for Dr. Mustafa patient experiences on this site, you get a page or two of results and most of those results are LON. When you search for Debiparshad on this site, you get many many pages of results and none of them are LON.


My guess is that you'll be okay. The biggest issue with Turkey seems to be infections which won't be an issue for you since you're doing Precice. And most people, in general, do not get complications statistically-speaking. However, we only really see if a surgeon is worth their salt when complications do arise...

[GrowGrow123]

I don't know much about AFA, so I won't mention it.
But I don't think Debiparshad is a good doctor.
Have you read this GQ article? 　
Debiparshad's patient in this article has an obvious knock-knee.　

https://www.gq.com/story/leg-lengthening
https://media.gq.com/photos/6320e424989415f64c739a3c/master/w_1600,c_limit/GQ1022_LegLengthing_04c.jpg

I support Paley's opinion.

Look, Debiparshad is not my surgeon. I have no bias here.

Credentials-wise, Debiparshad is about as good as it gets. He went to medical school at McGill University (the best university in Canada). He did a fellowship at Harvard University. He did a fellowship under Paley at his institute lol. Paley and Debiparshad have written papers together! He was literally trained by Paley, but you think he is a bad doctor? Come on, now.

What I do think is a valid criticism of Dr. D is that he's relatively inexperienced compared to guys like Paley and Rozbruch. He's only 41 years old. Any new surgeon is still going to be developing their skills and he's only been doing CLL's full-time on his own since 2016 or so. This criticism gets weaker and weaker every year he practices though. While we don't have exact numbers, the articles online seem to suggest he does anywhere from 50-100 CLL's every year at minimum.

Just search for patient experiences on this site for Dr. D. There's many pages worth. And, from what I can, see it's all rather positive.

I don't think we can infer too much from that GQ pic. We don't know what the end result for that patient was. For all we know, that patient bent their nails and didn't follow instructions. We don't know.

[EndGame]

Look, Debiparshad is not my surgeon. I have no bias here.

Credentials-wise, Debiparshad is about as good as it gets. He went to medical school at McGill University (the best university in Canada). He did a fellowship at Harvard University. He did a fellowship under Paley at his institute lol. Paley and Debiparshad have written papers together! He was literally trained by Paley, but you think he is a bad doctor? Come on, now.

What I do think is a valid criticism of Dr. D is that he's relatively inexperienced compared to guys like Paley and Rozbruch. He's only 41 years old. Any new surgeon is still going to be developing their skills and he's only been doing CLL's full-time on his own since 2016 or so. This criticism gets weaker and weaker every year he practices though. While we don't have exact numbers, the articles online seem to suggest he does anywhere from 50-100 CLL's every year at minimum.

Just search for patient experiences on this site for Dr. D. There's many pages worth. And, from what I can, see it's all rather positive.

I don't think we can infer too much from that GQ pic. We don't know what the end result for that patient was. For all we know, that patient bent their nails and didn't follow instructions. We don't know.

Maybe Dr. D is great. However, I believe Dr. P made the point, of all the x-rays Dr. D could've used he picked one where the patients alignment got botched...

[GrowGrow123]

Maybe Dr. D is great. However, I believe Dr. P made the point, of all the x-rays Dr. D could've used he picked one where the patients alignment got botched...

I mentioned this earlier already. Paley is not an objective source here. It’s completely unprofessional of him to make comments like that. His problem with Debiparshad stems from the fact that Dr. D left his institute and published a paper with Paley’s name under his name (which Paley took as an insult since he wanted his name above Dr. D’s).

We don’t know how that patient ended up so you can’t say he was botched. People were saying the same thing about Hulk from LLT. He had what appeared to be knock knees on his last x-rays, but it went away on its own (but not the ballerina feet).

As to why he chose that particular photo? Who knows. Maybe it was the only quadrilateral patient he had at the time willing to let him use the photo.

I’m not arguing Dr. D is as good as Paley. He’s not. But he’s definitely nowhere near as bad as the butchers in Turkey.

[Maison]

Look, Debiparshad is not my surgeon. I have no bias here.

Credentials-wise, Debiparshad is about as good as it gets. He went to medical school at McGill University (the best university in Canada). He did a fellowship at Harvard University. He did a fellowship under Paley at his institute lol. Paley and Debiparshad have written papers together! He was literally trained by Paley, but you think he is a bad doctor? Come on, now.

What I do think is a valid criticism of Dr. D is that he's relatively inexperienced compared to guys like Paley and Rozbruch. He's only 41 years old. Any new surgeon is still going to be developing their skills and he's only been doing CLL's full-time on his own since 2016 or so. This criticism gets weaker and weaker every year he practices though. While we don't have exact numbers, the articles online seem to suggest he does anywhere from 50-100 CLL's every year at minimum.

Just search for patient experiences on this site for Dr. D. There's many pages worth. And, from what I can, see it's all rather positive.

I don't think we can infer too much from that GQ pic. We don't know what the end result for that patient was. For all we know, that patient bent their nails and didn't follow instructions. We don't know.

I searched for Dr. D's experience stories on this forum, but couldn't find any tibial patients.
I believe it is important to have the ability to use blocking screws when necessary to maintain tibial alignment.
Paley, Rozbruch, Assayag can use blocking screws.

There is no blocking screw in the tibia in the GQ X-ray, so even if there is no nail bend, there is a possibility that the patient has a knock knee.
The femur is technically easier than the tibia because malalignment rarely occurs.
If I saw the x-rays where Dr. D put the blocking screw into the tibia, I would trust him more.

[GrowGrow123]

I searched for Dr. D's experience stories on this forum, but couldn't find any tibial patients.
I believe it is important to have the ability to use blocking screws when necessary to maintain tibial alignment.
Paley, Rozbruch, Assayag can use blocking screws.

That's totally valid. If I wanted to do tibias and I couldn't find any patient experiences from a surgeon doing tibias, then I wouldn't choose that surgeon.

[Rockstarz5]

   
 Whats about betz?.. you said so many people got screw it from him, you bash all doctora.. at this point I dont think there is any good doctor on the market, is like that. Is kind of a luck because there is not a perfect doctor, never will be and this is just the lind of operation is like that LL, why betz?.. yes the guy is old now, but the only problem with him at least what I have read is rhat he exceded some limits in the lenght.. just that even paley I have read bad things

[GrowGrow123]

   
 Whats about betz?.. you said so many people got screw it from him, you bash all doctora.. at this point I dont think there is any good doctor on the market, is like that. Is kind of a luck because there is not a perfect doctor, never will be and this is just the lind of operation is like that LL, why betz?.. yes the guy is old now, but the only problem with him at least what I have read is rhat he exceded some limits in the lenght.. just that even paley I have read bad things

Betz is retired.

[Rockstarz5]

  Well his succesor.. there is a diary on instagram where the dude did tibia of 3 inches and doing fine, and also a german celebrity and all good qith her, but all its seems in this forum is wrong.. my point is that there is no any good doctors, period

[GrowGrow123]

  Well his succesor.. there is a diary on instagram where the dude did tibia of 3 inches and doing fine, and also a german celebrity and all good qith her, but all its seems in this forum is wrong.. my point is that there is no any good doctors, period

What are you talking about? At bare minimum, everyone on the forum agrees that Rozbruch, Paley, Birkholtz, Lee, and Assayag are good. Because they are.

There are other good surgeons as well, but those are probably the ones who have the most consensus.

[Rockstarz5]

   Paley is the best not doub about ir. Bur the price is just .. not. Also in some interviews he said that is about experience because he also lade mistakes and did do good job is some cases. Remember that USA is the country of sues. So yes need to be carefull.