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[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

ps 15 cm (7.5cm tibia, 7.5cm femur) is the very upper most "reasonably safe" limit.

maby 6 cm tibia and 6 cm femur would be a better idea if your using external for both.


certainly 7.5cm for femur can be reached with internal but for external its better not to go above 5-6 cm.

[Sweden]

I've experienced it first hand. There is no reason for me to lie.

4,5-5cm on tibias maximum.

5,5-6cm on femurs maximum.

If you use externals.

There is one benefit with external femurs: your doctor can check so that your mechanical axis is aligned. That is IF he knows what he's doing.

I know the idea of LON/LATN on femurs sound very good but it's not.
You will most likely recover to a very good point but the road is devastating.

My idea with external femurs is to do 4cm and do lots of exercises and boost your body with all the proper nutrition you possibly know of and hopefully you can be out of frames in 5 months - and then you're done with it. No IMnail, no plate, no nothing.
Femurs heal faster too bc of greater blood flow.
It should be possible.
Knees will get stuck in a bad angle but it recovers with time. It took my knees a full year to recover. Today I can fully kneel, squat, anything. Even better than the average Joe.

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

There is no reason for me to lie.

I never said I thought you were lying.

I did however think that you could possibly be incorrect.

you did tibia. LON for tibia is very bad for the knees, which 50% of people experience knee pain from it, and iv been told that anecdotally around 50% of people who get this knee pain get it as a chronic persistent form for a long time. so the end result is that LON tibia could cause chronic knee pain in 25% of cases. at least according to some doctors.

however as stated above we are discussing femurs. which does not have the intramedullary nail go through the knee but through the top of the femur bone.

I have not heard of this (femur, LON) causing knee issues. so I was curious to hear your sources.

[Sweden]

My friend did it 2 feet beside me in my room in India.

It was really devastating for his knee. He did LATP on his other femur bc of the horrific trauma and agony.
The guy shouted in fierce pain when he tried to move his "LON-leg".

Today he says he can run and do everything he wants but still need to do some physio every week.

LON in femurs is a terrible idea.

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

statistical analysis for a style of operation needs more than 1 case.

but I gladly accept this case to state that LON femur "could" cause knee pain.

my questions would be.

given that sarin is not an LL specialist. did he place the intramedullary nail in through the knee or hip?
and second did the patient in question already do tibia or was femur his first operation?

and even if this was 1) conducted via the top of the femur, and 2) his first operation.
it is still possible that sarin is not a doctor who we should base our assessment on femur LON for.

but I still hear your statement and will keep it in the back of my mind.

[Greek-Semidget]

What the hell? Guys!! You drift of the topic, this doctor sounds good and with him operation may cost you less than 10k euros insanely competitive

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

we are discussing this doctor. we are specifically discussing what is the safest method to get done when we use this Russian doctor.

given that he is cheap.

no forum topic is black and white. there is some grey. the things discussed here in this topic are important to learn.

[Greek-Semidget]

we are discussing this doctor. we are specifically discussing what is the safest method to get done when we use this Russian doctor.

given that he is cheap.

no forum topic is black and white. there is some grey. the things discussed here in this topic are important to learn.

Oh if then, I think that illizavor on femurs causes major discomfort and I have contacted the doctor and he didn't recommend it cause it is extremely uncomfortable, you cant bear it, safest method is external only for tibias and internals for femurs. Lon/Latn may speed up the frame removal, but they make this surgery more invansive. I think if you want fast recovery do 5cm on tibias, but if you want more height do up to 7 cm no more.

[RobinKing44]

"Conventional Ilizarov + 3 weeks in the hospital = ~$5.000" i thought that was the price?

And so from what i am hearing it might take longer with external to recover then with lon so if I do lon on both the tib and femur will i then recover faster?

And how long after the surgery before i can start working again if i do LON on femur and external on tib(or LON on tib)?

[Sweden]

Dr Sarin has done several LON on femurs and patients suffered from knee contracture. His last LON on femurs was with my room mate.

Monorails can be used but they are very unstable. I've seen terrible outcome from monorails. Just look at Crazy+6. Most likely he can't even walk as of today. He did 8cm on femurs and 8cm on tibias.

Doing both part with a cheap doctor could ruin your life for many many years.
Getting back to work will take minimum 3 years.

[Greek-Semidget]

Dr Sarin has done several LON on femurs and patients suffered from knee contracture. His last LON on femurs was with my room mate.

Monorails can be used but they are very unstable. I've seen terrible outcome from monorails. Just look at Crazy+6. Most likely he can't even walk as of today. He did 8cm on femurs and 8cm on tibias.

Doing both part with a cheap doctor could ruin your life for many many years.
Getting back to work will take minimum 3 years.

How about monorails for 4 cm. I think they may do the work. What you think?

[Taller]

I think so to. Plenty of people do for non-cosmetic reasons and make full recoveries. Just be extra sure that you're doing it with a competent doctor.

[Greek-Semidget]

I think so to. Plenty of people do for non-cosmetic reasons and make full recoveries. Just be extra sure that you're doing it with a competent doctor.

I don't know longer Tibias look better :/

[RobinKing44]

Okay so how long after the surgery do you have to say in russia?
If you are doing the femur and tib for 15cm how long before i can do things like drive,walk,etc on my own?
What is the Overall cost of this surgery (with external on tib and femur) and hotel cost?

[PrettyTall]

Okay so how long after the surgery do you have to say in russia?
If you are doing the femur and tib for 15cm how long before i can do things like drive,walk,etc on my own?
What is the Overall cost of this surgery (with external on tib and femur) and hotel cost?

with this Doc external tibia is 3000eu don't know if this goes also with forging patients, the recovery depends on  the PT but a big part of it is about the person itself everyone is different, you can mail him and ask about the price I'm willing to go with him, need the money

[Greek-Semidget]

with this Doc external tibia is 3000eu don't know if this goes also with forging patients, the recovery depends on  the PT but a big part of it is about the person itself everyone is different, you can mail him and ask about the price I'm willing to go with him, need the money

m2 him or dr.bagirov. I think it is a great price....

[Morgenst.]

It is a great price.. Tempting anyone know if he has contacts with local apartments nearby like Dr Barinov has?  Or offer any PT at the hospital during the elongation period?  Damn we need a diary from one his of his patients

[Greek-Semidget]

Does anybody knows if this doctor uses any scanners for the legs to know the adjustments he should make? Like with dr bagirov

[PrettyTall]

any news ?

[KiloKAHN]

Dr Parihar said Dr Solomin is coming to Mumbai soon to teach an Ilizarov workshop. He's probably a safe option for those interested in doing this in Russia.

[RobinKing44]

okay so I am planing ion doing external on tibia for 7 cm and while consolidating I will do lon on femurs for 7 cms how long do you all think this would take?

[Sweden]

okay so I am planing ion doing external on tibia for 7 cm and while consolidating I will do lon on femurs for 7 cms how long do you all think this would take?

Probably 3-4 years before you'll be back to normal 75% as before if ever.

It is a very bad idea what you're planning.

[Morgenst.]

Hey Sweden what about external tibias 7-8cm then LON femurs 5cm couple years later? I think that's reasonable amount of time of healing in between and small amount of lengthening on femurs would make it doable what do you think?

[Sweden]

Terrible idea.

LON on femurs is never a good idea.

[Greek-Semidget]

Terrible idea.

LON on femurs is never a good idea.

sadly, I have to agree, just do external Tibias, with LL you screw your biomechanics anyway..right?

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

greek smidget.
I think Sweden was saying that LON on femurs is a bad idea, and by that he meant the method, Sweden's opinion is that internal for femur is good.

I don't think he was stating that all LL for femur is bad, only LON for femur greek smidget.

interestingly even though mechanical axis/anatomical axis should change, it wasn't observed in clinical trials.

so I am still yet to see reasons to why LON femur is the devil. certainly LON is better than cages. and lon femur in clinical studies has a 5% knee contracture rate. so it certainly has risks but those risks are not 30% knee contracture rate as with classic ilisorov cages for femur.

internal is the safest, but 5% knee contracture rate for lon femur is certainly not the devil. its a risk but not a massive risk.

knee contracture is fixed with quadriplasty.

[Taller]

greek smidget.
I think Sweden was saying that LON on femurs is a bad idea, and by that he meant the method, Sweden's opinion is that internal for femur is good.

I don't think he was stating that all LL for femur is bad, only LON for femur greek smidget.

interestingly even though mechanical axis/anatomical axis should change, it wasn't observed in clinical trials.

so I am still yet to see reasons to why LON femur is the devil. certainly LON is better than cages. and lon femur in clinical studies has a 5% knee contracture rate. so it certainly has risks but those risks are not 30% knee contracture rate as with classic ilisorov cages for femur.

internal is the safest, but 5% knee contracture rate for lon femur is certainly not the devil. its a risk but not a massive risk.

knee contracture is fixed with quadriplasty.

When you use the word LON femur in comparison to Ilizarov femur, do you mean LON with a monorail fixator or with an Ilizarov fixator plus an IM nail inside the femur?

[Morgenst.]

sadly, I have to agree, just do external Tibias, with LL you screw your biomechanics anyway..right?

Yeah but I'm dead set on lengthening my tibias at least 7cm and that put my tibias and femurs would be to close to the same length

[Greek-Semidget]

Yeah but I'm dead set on lengthening my tibias at least 7cm and that put my tibias and femurs would be to close to the same length

SO? its ok! its better than having a long bone 15cm longer than the other

[mimi]

I was wondering if LON method can be done by dr leonid solomin??

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

oops lol my bad sorry.

yes I meant LON femur as in (LON, monorail femur) has a 5% contracture rate.

and classic ilisorov cage with IM nail is what I meant when I typed it,
however I just reviewed the papers and I made a mistake in my statement, 30% contracture rate is for (classic external ilisorov cages) with (no LON).

I will do research now for (classic ilisorov cages external) (with LON) for contracture rate, I used to know but I forgot the figure, I think by memory it was very close to contracture rate of 30%.

here is a thread I made a while ago with some links.

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=893.0