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[Height Journey]

So the controversy is about the recommended 8cm maximum safe limit for femurs, or if the real safe limit can go even higher. Let me chime in.

There is no empirical or research data that defines 8cm as the safe maximum limit for femurs. I'm guessing by conjecture that the 8cm femur safe limit came from orthopedic research that the best bone regenerate is less than 15% of the bone length. Between 15% to 20% and it gets a little more worse. Beyond 20% and it gets more worse, so it's recommended not to lengthen more than 20% of your bone length.

Before 2020, the overwhelming majority of cosmetic leg lengthening patients were short men under 5'7" or 170cm. Short men between 5'4" to 5'7" had femur lengths where 20% of it would be around 8cm. So when Nuvasive released the Precice 1 nail in 2012 and Precice 2 nail in 2014 (I think those are the years), they want to keep it safe for the overwhelming majority of their clients and limit it to 8cm.

Since 2020, we have certainly seen a greater number of taller CLL patients over 5'7". In that case, 20% femur length for the taller patients can be more like 9cm or even 10cm. And yes, the safe limit is different for each individual patient.

Even if you go with a femur lengthening device where you can lengthen 9cm or more, it's still an increasing risk if you go over your safe limit. It's not as simple as playing a game at a casino for higher stakes, which can either lead to bigger gains or bigger losses. With casino games, you just lose money and you can always gain money back (assuming you're not too deep in debt or an addict). But if you lose the game of overlengthening, you'll suffer a lifetime of permanent losses like:

Excessive muscle tightness
Arthritis
Nerve damage
Bone deformity (bent nails which leads to bent bones)
Messed up walking gait
Loss of athletic ability (like running or jumping)
Being a handicap
Lost time

[betzbone1236]

So the controversy is about the recommended 8cm maximum safe limit for femurs, or if the real safe limit can go even higher. Let me chime in.

There is no empirical or research data that defines 8cm as the safe maximum limit for femurs. I'm guessing by conjecture that the 8cm femur safe limit came from orthopedic research that the best bone regenerate is less than 15% of the bone length. Between 15% to 20% and it gets a little more worse. Beyond 20% and it gets more worse, so it's recommended not to lengthen more than 20% of your bone length.

Before 2020, the overwhelming majority of cosmetic leg lengthening patients were short men under 5'7" or 170cm. Short men between 5'4" to 5'7" had femur lengths where 20% of it would be around 8cm. So when Nuvasive released the Precice 1 nail in 2012 and Precice 2 nail in 2014 (I think those are the years), they want to keep it safe for the overwhelming majority of their clients and limit it to 8cm.

Since 2020, we have certainly seen a greater number of taller CLL patients over 5'7". In that case, 20% femur length for the taller patients can be more like 9cm or even 10cm. And yes, the safe limit is different for each individual patient.

Even if you go with a femur lengthening device where you can lengthen 9cm or more, it's still an increasing risk if you go over your safe limit. It's not as simple as playing a game at a casino for higher stakes, which can either lead to bigger gains or bigger losses. With casino games, you just lose money and you can always gain money back (assuming you're not too deep in debt or an addict). But if you lose the game of overlengthening, you'll suffer a lifetime of permanent losses like:

Excessive muscle tightness
Arthritis
Nerve damage
Bone deformity (bent nails which leads to bent bones)
Messed up walking gait
Loss of athletic ability (like running or jumping)
Being a handicap
Lost time

I just did 12.36cm on one go in femurs. Some of what you said is right. Comes down to some can handle 12 in one go and some can’t. It depends on many factors and the person

[Tehn84]

Are you satisfied with your height now being 178-179cm tall? Or are you planning for a tibia lengthening?

Also, I guess you are the multi-banned user so I have to ask, is dating at your new height really vastly easier than before like a night and day difference? I ask this because (1) I agree with your views that LL is almost exclusively for being better at dating (2) If even you might notice a difference, but not a big one, do you think the entire ordeal is worth for the supposed benefits it brings

100% satisfied now and won't be doing tibia, even though at one point (pre-first LL) I used to think I might do it. I'd be a few millimetres off 180cm now, and that's perfectly fine for me tbh. While getting to 184-185 would probably be a benefit in absolute terms from where I am now, in no way do I think it'd be worth the additional months of recovery and the cost, the big dating/social gains have been had already.

With dating my experience is this: on apps, where a girl is going to swipe left or right based on your pictures, there's no increase in actual match rate, but that's just normal as (just like when I was 171) I don't put my height in the bio as let's face it, 179-180 is about average and not worth specifically drawing attention to as a net positive. When you actually meet up for a date though, success rate is much better now. More times a girl comes home with you quickly, more often she's interested to meet again etc.

In 'real-life' settings it's also a nice benefit. Prior to CLL, I'd only ever managed to pick up one girl in a club before. Not that I went often, but that was largely because of the negative feedback loop i.e. as a manlet you don't really belong in a club and it's extremely difficult to have fun there. I still don't particularly enjoy the experience since it's just not my scene, but since CLL I've picked up 2 girls in clubs (so 2 in a few months vs 1 in many years, and it's not like I go out often, maybe once a month or so, I'm 99% an online-dating type of guy) and have even started getting approached by girls myself sometimes, which literally never happened (in a club) pre-CLL. It's not some magic bullet where you're guaranteed to be drowning in approaches every time you go out, but it definitely puts you in the game and gives you a decent chance.

CLL was/is definitely worth it from my starting height to ending height. I'd feel much more sceptical about doing it if starting at my current height now and wanting to get to the mid-180s, although it's fair to say I did meet a few patients who did just that and they seemed satisfied, although I never kept in touch with them after CLL so I don't really know how it's impacted their lives.

[DanishViking]

Women can't tell the difference between being barefoot 5'10 or 6 feet. Some women if your towering over them, they don't care if its with 19 cm or 24 cm as an example. Thats why that if your're doing LL to get those "bad bitches" (shallow cheap trash women from clubs that literally only care about height, money and attention) it's not going to make a difference if your standard tall by being 5'10 or more than this. Guys often lies with up 2 inches, because they know that they can get away with it and your're taller in shoes. Besides the only country I have heard where women are so extremely shallow and are like this is in the US. Here in Denmark I have never heard or meet any women who have rejected a guy because he was only like 5 cm taller than the girl and not a head. That would be like a guy not deciding to get into a relationship/smashing with a perfect girl, just because the butt could be thicker.

https://scoop.upworthy.com/woman-sparks-debate-after-revealing-plan-to-catch-men-lying-about-their-height-on-dating-apps

[Tehn84]

Women can't tell the difference between being barefoot 5'10 or 6 feet. Some women if your towering over them, they don't care if its with 19 cm or 24 cm as an example. Thats why that if your're doing LL to get those "bad bitches" (shallow cheap trash women from clubs that literally only care about height, money and attention) it's not going to make a difference if your standard tall by being 5'10 or more than this. Guys often lies with up 2 inches, because they know that they can get away with it and your're taller in shoes. Besides the only country I have heard where women are so extremely shallow and are like this is in the US. Here in Denmark I have never heard or meet any women who have rejected a guy because he was only like 5 cm taller than the girl and not a head. That would be like a guy not deciding to get into a relationship/smashing with a perfect girl, just because the butt could be thicker.

https://scoop.upworthy.com/woman-sparks-debate-after-revealing-plan-to-catch-men-lying-about-their-height-on-dating-apps

You're a bluepilled cuck who has drunk the muh kunfidence muh game muh personliteehee kool aid. All your posts are full of this trash.

Of course they can fking tell, that isn't the same thing as being able to accurately guess someone's height to within 5cm however.

Nothing wrong with being shallow either, everyone is shallow. Do you want a good looking girl? Then you're 'shallow, cheap, trash' too, by your own metrics. And don't start lying to me that you only care about a girls character.

[informationispower]

100% satisfied now and won't be doing tibia, even though at one point (pre-first LL) I used to think I might do it. I'd be a few millimetres off 180cm now, and that's perfectly fine for me tbh. While getting to 184-185 would probably be a benefit in absolute terms from where I am now, in no way do I think it'd be worth the additional months of recovery and the cost, the big dating/social gains have been had already.

With dating my experience is this: on apps, where a girl is going to swipe left or right based on your pictures, there's no increase in actual match rate, but that's just normal as (just like when I was 171) I don't put my height in the bio as let's face it, 179-180 is about average and not worth specifically drawing attention to as a net positive. When you actually meet up for a date though, success rate is much better now. More times a girl comes home with you quickly, more often she's interested to meet again etc.

In 'real-life' settings it's also a nice benefit. Prior to CLL, I'd only ever managed to pick up one girl in a club before. Not that I went often, but that was largely because of the negative feedback loop i.e. as a manlet you don't really belong in a club and it's extremely difficult to have fun there. I still don't particularly enjoy the experience since it's just not my scene, but since CLL I've picked up 2 girls in clubs (so 2 in a few months vs 1 in many years, and it's not like I go out often, maybe once a month or so, I'm 99% an online-dating type of guy) and have even started getting approached by girls myself sometimes, which literally never happened (in a club) pre-CLL. It's not some magic bullet where you're guaranteed to be drowning in approaches every time you go out, but it definitely puts you in the game and gives you a decent chance.

CLL was/is definitely worth it from my starting height to ending height. I'd feel much more sceptical about doing it if starting at my current height now and wanting to get to the mid-180s, although it's fair to say I did meet a few patients who did just that and they seemed satisfied, although I never kept in touch with them after CLL so I don't really know how it's impacted their lives.

Mm I see. BTW, which country are you from? You are not a native English speaker

[HateLAPELoveSTEM]

You're a bluepilled cuck who has drunk the muh kunfidence muh game muh personliteehee kool aid. All your posts are full of this trash.

Of course they can fking tell, that isn't the same thing as being able to accurately guess someone's height to within 5cm however.

Nothing wrong with being shallow either, everyone is shallow. Do you want a good looking girl? Then you're 'shallow, cheap, trash' too, by your own metrics. And don't start lying to me that you only care about a girls character.

I vote up what this guy said. Well, yeah, I admit that if two girls are equal in other respects except face, I will prefer the more good-looking one, but that does not mean I will put the largest weight to face when dating. If she was hot but she had bad personality so that I couldnt' even get along with her, or even just did not have the same interests as mine so that we could not have many conversations, then I would also not date her. Face is just a threshold btw. Even if she was good-looking, as you had got along with her for long enough time being good-looking would not make sense any longer. 

[informationispower]

I vote up what this guy said. Well, yeah, I admit that if two girls are equal in other respects except face, I will prefer the more good-looking one, but that does not mean I will put the largest weight to face when dating. If she was hot but she had bad personality so that I couldnt' even get along with her, or even just did not have the same interests as mine so that we could not have many conversations, then I would also not date her. Face is just a threshold btw. Even if she was good-looking, as you had got along with her for long enough time being good-looking would not make sense any longer.

If she was attractive but an idiot you might not date her but you would still f**k her.
Only guys who can't or never had ONS speak about dating disregarding the sex for fun aspect

[DanishViking]

I agree with both you. If a girl is hot, but has a terrible attitude or personality then you don't want to do anything with her other than f... But personally being with someone who you vibe with ssssoooo much better.

Tehn84  My posts are almost always based on facts, common sense or personal experience something you clearly lack. I have worked multiple jobs in field marketing approaching hundreds of women, and you just can't accept the truth that women will never notice the difference between average tall and taller than that and even if 1/100 do, they dont care if your're 15 cm taller or 20. cm taller than them lmao.

But hey! Keep living your trashy lifestyle chasing trash slutty women at clubs while drinking yourself to death, craptalking everyone with more life experience with crap language online, while spending all your money going from tall to more tall. I'm just trying to tell you the reality, I have been in your shoes and it ain't worth it. No i'm not bluepilled, I just don't chase club garbage, infact I believe blue pilled men maybe like you, think that the only thing that matters is height cuz your're insecure, when in reality social skills, confidence, looks, style, charisma matters much much more. If you don't believe then look it up. Grow up and start acting like an adult and stop insulting everyone you think that it's wrong even when they have more life experience than yourself, thats just plain childish and pathetic...

[HateLAPELoveSTEM]

If she was attractive but an idiot you might not date her but you would still f**k her.
Only guys who can't or never had ONS speak about dating disregarding the sxx for fun aspect

We were talking about dating kid.

[Tehn84]

I agree with both you. If a girl is hot, but has a terrible attitude or personality then you don't want to do anything with her other than f... But personally being with someone who you vibe with ssssoooo much better.

Tehn84  My posts are almost always based on facts, common sense or personal experience something you clearly lack. I have worked multiple jobs in field marketing approaching hundreds of women, and you just can't accept the truth that women will never notice the difference between average tall and taller than that and even if 1/100 do, they dont care if your're 15 cm taller or 20. cm taller than them lmao.

But hey! Keep living your trashy lifestyle chasing trash slutty women at clubs while drinking yourself to death, craptalking everyone with more life experience with crap language online, while spending all your money going from tall to more tall. I'm just trying to tell you the reality, I have been in your shoes and it ain't worth it. No i'm not bluepilled, I just don't chase club garbage, infact I believe blue pilled men maybe like you, think that the only thing that matters is height cuz your're insecure, when in reality social skills, confidence, looks, style, charisma matters much much more. If you don't believe then look it up. Grow up and start acting like an adult and stop insulting everyone you think that it's wrong even when they have more life experience than yourself, thats just plain childish and pathetic...

I'll bet dollars to cents I've fked more women than you, and looks (including height) matter a lot more than all the garbage you constantly try and peddle around here about being kunfidunt and secure. I don't need to 'look it up' and have my beliefs validated by a bunch of blue pilled Dr Nosebergs conducting a study, I can just use real life experience.

Won't engage your strawman argument except to say you wouldn't know if a girl cares if you're 15cm or 20cm taller, you've never been in either position being 167cm in Denmark. Any girl you're 20cm taller than would probably qualify as an actual dwarf - and no, I don't need official definitions and 'studies' for that, thanks.

I know why you constantly have to tell yourself confidence matters more though, cos at the end of the day, you're 167 in a country where the average is 182. If you had to accept reality it'd break you into pieces, so you kinda have to stick your head in the sand to cope.

Mm I see. BTW, which country are you from? You are not a native English speaker

Not gonna say where I'm from since it'd obviously narrow down who I am a bit much given the other stuff posted (i.e. where I got LL and how much I did).

We were talking about dating kid.

Look ching-a-ling, we all know you've never been able to have casual sex in your life, and you're most probably still a virgin given your propensity to scream incel at everyone who calls out your BS or tells you some home truths, but there's more than you can do with a woman except 'dating'. Plenty of girls will have sex with a guy they've only known for an hour or two, even in your home country of China - it's just you don't get to have any of it. The fact you instantly want to frame the conversation solely about 'dating' really says all we need to know about your women experience.

BTW, women laugh at guys like you who go on 8 dates before you get the bollox to kiss her and are happy to wait 6 months until you get sex. I've been in bed with Chinese girls where they're laughing at typical Chinese men like you and your 'dating' ideas. You'll be getting precisely 0 pussies wet being a manlet Chinese in China, meanwhile any 4/10 foreigner can come in and have a new girl each week riding his dck. Go on, rage and call me an incel, but them's the facts - the only incel (involuntary celibate) is you.

[informationispower]

We were talking about dating kid.

I am pretty sure I am older than you and I would keep my profile a little bit lower with your posting history and the fact you never touched a woman kiddo

[HateLAPELoveSTEM]

I am pretty sure I am older than you and I would keep my profile a little bit lower with your posting history and the fact you never touched a woman kiddo

lmfao this forum is really funny now. What if I touched one?

[HateLAPELoveSTEM]

I'll bet dollars to cents I've fked more women than you, and looks (including height) matter a lot more than all the garbage you constantly try and peddle around here about being kunfidunt and secure. I don't need to 'look it up' and have my beliefs validated by a bunch of blue pilled Dr Nosebergs conducting a study, I can just use real life experience.

Won't engage your strawman argument except to say you wouldn't know if a girl cares if you're 15cm or 20cm taller, you've never been in either position being 167cm in Denmark. Any girl you're 20cm taller than would probably qualify as an actual dwarf - and no, I don't need official definitions and 'studies' for that, thanks.

I know why you constantly have to tell yourself confidence matters more though, cos at the end of the day, you're 167 in a country where the average is 182. If you had to accept reality it'd break you into pieces, so you kinda have to stick your head in the sand to cope.

Not gonna say where I'm from since it'd obviously narrow down who I am a bit much given the other stuff posted (i.e. where I got LL and how much I did).
Look ching-a-ling, we all know you've never been able to have casual sxx in your life, and you're most probably still a virgin given your propensity to scream incel at everyone who calls out your BS or tells you some home truths, but there's more than you can do with a woman except 'dating'. Plenty of girls will have sxx with a guy they've only known for an hour or two, even in your home country of China - it's just you don't get to have any of it. The fact you instantly want to frame the conversation solely about 'dating' really says all we need to know about your women experience.

BTW, women laugh at guys like you who go on 8 dates before you get the bollox to kiss her and are happy to wait 6 months until you get sxx. I've been in bed with Chinese girls where they're laughing at typical Chinese men like you and your 'dating' ideas. You'll be getting precisely 0 pussies wet being a manlet Chinese in China, meanwhile any 4/10 foreigner can come in and have a new girl each week riding his dck. Go on, rage and call me an incel, but them's the facts - the only incel (involuntary celibate) is you.

Pretty sure you are just an alt of that idiot who said fking women was more important than finding a good job. You don't need to tell me how more important it was again. We don't want to see you represent as a fool for one more time.

[Tehn84]

Pretty sure you are just an alt of that idiot who said fking women was more important than finding a good job. You don't need to tell me how more important it was again. We don't want to see you represent as a fool for one more time.

It is more important, much more. Social experiences > muh number on a screen. The wagie goes out to slave away while the NEET overlord fks his wife. Such is your fate.

BTW, given you and your ilk like 'studies' so much, you should make yourself aware of the actual utility of having a good salary - the long and short of it is, going from 0 (i.e. starving with no shelter) to having your basic needs covered leads to quite a bit of an increase in happiness, and from there there's a much more moderate increase up to about $80,000 a year. After that point, having more money does not lead to increased happiness (and even up to that point it's very much a law of diminishing returns type thing, $60,000 is very very close to $80,000). You know what does cause increased happiness? Positive social experiences - the sort that you get from being able to bang girls that are attracted to you, forming good loving relationships, having a strong friendship group that does stuff together etc.

Of course you will not accept this, as you've been raised to believe the industrious worker ant will ultimately survive, while the lazy grasshopper will starve in the winter. Must cause so much cognitive dissonance when you're not getting the rewards society promised you after all those years studycelling in your room and kissing corporate ass while your taller, more handsome friends get girls.

lmfao this forum is really funny now. What if I touched one?

It's blindingly obvious that isn't the case just reading your posts. Maybe you bought a whore or two but that'll be about it.

[Philosopher]

I just did 12.36cm on one go in femurs. Some of what you said is right. Comes down to some can handle 12 in one go and some can’t. It depends on many factors and the person

You are 161.3 cm and reached 12.36 cm on femurs? Just curious, were your femurs longer than average before you started lenghtening or did you have high flexibility that enabled you to reach such goal?

[Philosopher]

So the controversy is about the recommended 8cm maximum safe limit for femurs, or if the real safe limit can go even higher. Let me chime in.

There is no empirical or research data that defines 8cm as the safe maximum limit for femurs. I'm guessing by conjecture that the 8cm femur safe limit came from orthopedic research that the best bone regenerate is less than 15% of the bone length. Between 15% to 20% and it gets a little more worse. Beyond 20% and it gets more worse, so it's recommended not to lengthen more than 20% of your bone length.

Before 2020, the overwhelming majority of cosmetic leg lengthening patients were short men under 5'7" or 170cm. Short men between 5'4" to 5'7" had femur lengths where 20% of it would be around 8cm. So when Nuvasive released the Precice 1 nail in 2012 and Precice 2 nail in 2014 (I think those are the years), they want to keep it safe for the overwhelming majority of their clients and limit it to 8cm.

Since 2020, we have certainly seen a greater number of taller CLL patients over 5'7". In that case, 20% femur length for the taller patients can be more like 9cm or even 10cm. And yes, the safe limit is different for each individual patient.

Even if you go with a femur lengthening device where you can lengthen 9cm or more, it's still an increasing risk if you go over your safe limit. It's not as simple as playing a game at a casino for higher stakes, which can either lead to bigger gains or bigger losses. With casino games, you just lose money and you can always gain money back (assuming you're not too deep in debt or an addict). But if you lose the game of overlengthening, you'll suffer a lifetime of permanent losses like:

Excessive muscle tightness
Arthritis
Nerve damage
Bone deformity (bent nails which leads to bent bones)
Messed up walking gait
Loss of athletic ability (like running or jumping)
Being a handicap
Lost time

How treatable those complications are, and what if they arise during the lenghtening process and you might need another surgery to fix it. Do you typically have to pay for that or is it included in the original price (I'm specifically asking about Betz/Becker or Giotikas, but I'll be satisfied with a general opinion)

[DanishViking]

Sorcerer let us just ignore people with low IQ, unrealistic believes and bad morals like this guy. He has already made a fool out of himself like you mentioned...

[Tehn84]

Sorcerer let us just ignore people with low IQ, unrealistic believes and bad morals like this guy. He has already made a fool out of himself like you mentioned...

2 bluepilled cucks (one of whom at least is 100% confirmed a virgin, and the other who at most gets a few scraps from Chad's table) arguing against 2 guys who actually have been inside pussies, get ONS's, and have had relationships. Absolutely brutal.

Watch out for all those girls you're 20cm taller than bro. At 167cm height. In Denmark. 

[informationispower]

Sorcerer let us just ignore people with low IQ, unrealistic believes and bad morals like this guy. He has already made a fool out of himself like you mentioned...

I don't think you should attach yourself to a guy who posted 100's of times how short height is worse than leukemia.

[Height Journey]

How treatable those complications are, and what if they arise during the lenghtening process and you might need another surgery to fix it. Do you typically have to pay for that or is it included in the original price (I'm specifically asking about Betz/Becker or Giotikas, but I'll be satisfied with a general opinion)

If the patient needs medical care or surgery to fix any complications from cosmetic limb lengthening surgery, the patient will have to pay for it (it's not included in the original CLL surgery price).

[MeanGoal]

Sorcerer let us just ignore people with low IQ, unrealistic believes and bad morals like this guy. He has already made a fool out of himself like you mentioned...

I don't think you should attach yourself to a guy who posted 100's of times how short height is worse than leukemia.

Also, don't get too attached to a major manic depressive who has had several suicide attempts in the past.