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Author Topic: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs  (Read 3554 times)

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Philosopher

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Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« on: July 29, 2023, 05:44:41 PM »

Betz Institute literally claims they can go for a maximum of up to 12 cm on femurs. Since that is way over the safe limit of 8 cm advised by many, how realistic is that? Are there people who've went to Dr. Betz and successfully recovered after such amount?
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YOUNGandSTRONG

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2023, 07:13:36 PM »

Stand Taller got 12 cm in femurs with betz last year from 5'5 to 5'10, ask him
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DanishViking

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2023, 08:21:11 PM »

If you do that you screw yourself up and are signing yourself up for early arthisis and joint problems. Just don't, stick to the 8 cms. You could properly pull it off if your starting height is 190 cm, but if you LL at that point your in the top 1000 idiots in this world.
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Thekollecter

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2023, 08:34:06 PM »

If your starting height is 190cm can you still get arthritis with 12 cm on femur v
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Tehn84

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2023, 09:02:09 PM »

There are guys who have done it and been fine. Also people who've ruined themselves.

Mad respect for anyone who actually gets to 12cm. It's hard enough at the latter stages of 8cm, nevermind with 4cm more added. I feel most guys would stop long before simply because of muscle and tendon tightness.
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Body Builder

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2023, 09:35:22 PM »

Good luck with that. For plenty of reasons.
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lessthanavg8300

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2023, 09:39:30 PM »

People who do this much often regret it because their proportions are absurd.
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Philosopher

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2023, 12:44:13 PM »

If you do that you screw yourself up and are signing yourself up for early arthisis and joint problems. Just don't, stick to the 8 cms. You could properly pull it off if your starting height is 190 cm, but if you LL at that point your in the top 1000 idiots in this world.

First of all, it's not like I'm seriously considering it, I'm just checking out all the options and doing some research.
Also what do you have in mind? Is it easier to lenghten longer distances when you are already taller? How exactly does that work?
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In some northern regions of Samogitia, the average height for 20 year old males is around 6'3''.
So yes, you can say I am striving for average. 🙃

Estimate surgery date: 2026 summer

DanishViking

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2023, 04:23:50 PM »

You can only safely lengthen a certain % of your limbs 10-15 % of the original length is safe zone where 15-20% is the risky zone. Anything above that your're playing with fire. So the taller you are the longer limbs you already have to begin with equals the more you can safetely lengthen.
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Tehn84

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2023, 05:32:45 PM »

There is the tendancy for people just to parrot what they've learned from others until it becomes 'commonly accepted'. This 8cm so-called safe limit is mainly because the Precise and Stryde nails maxed at 8cm, no other reason.

Reality is this: if you go a bit above 8cm, you'll probably be fine. 12cm is a bit extreme but I definitely think most could do 9 or 10 if the nail allows it and they're not concerned with doing incel things like squatting big weights or running marathons. If you just wanted a basic recovery where you can walk fine 9 or 10 is probably going to be fine.
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DanishViking

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2023, 05:48:41 PM »

You clearly new to the forum and know nothing about what your're talking about. Very few patients can safetely without any complications go above 8 cms on femurs. Paley who is the most experienced surgeon when it comes to LL on this planet, has also confirmed that almost all patients can't tolerate more and the precice nail was designed not to go further because of safety reasons.

If you as a human being avoid safety warnings and tips from the top most knowledgeable surgeons or people on a given subject your're an idiot.
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informationispower

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2023, 06:07:59 PM »

There is the tendancy for people just to parrot what they've learned from others until it becomes 'commonly accepted'. This 8cm so-called safe limit is mainly because the Precise and Stryde nails maxed at 8cm, no other reason.

Reality is this: if you go a bit above 8cm, you'll probably be fine. 12cm is a bit extreme but I definitely think most could do 9 or 10 if the nail allows it and they're not concerned with doing incel things like squatting big weights or running marathons. If you just wanted a basic recovery where you can walk fine 9 or 10 is probably going to be fine.

Problem is that doing 9+ cms guarantees screwed proportions. Some are fine with that but many aren't
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HateLAPELoveSTEM

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2023, 06:35:55 PM »

There is the tendancy for people just to parrot what they've learned from others until it becomes 'commonly accepted'. This 8cm so-called safe limit is mainly because the Precise and Stryde nails maxed at 8cm, no other reason.

Reality is this: if you go a bit above 8cm, you'll probably be fine. 12cm is a bit extreme but I definitely think most could do 9 or 10 if the nail allows it and they're not concerned with doing incel things like squatting big weights or running marathons. If you just wanted a basic recovery where you can walk fine 9 or 10 is probably going to be fine.
8 safe limit derived from the empirical data instead of just an arbitrary delusion. It's dead wrong to have claimed most could do 9 or 10.
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1team

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2023, 09:53:15 PM »

8 safe limit derived from the empirical data instead of just an arbitrary delusion. It's dead wrong to have claimed most could do 9 or 10.

Do you have a link to the data? Curious to see how much problems go up from 5cm to 8cm.
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Confidence

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2023, 01:37:31 AM »

https://www.tiktok.com/@le_tremba/video/7259867016461389083

this guy did 10.5cm and is walking fine.  8cm being an absolute max is nothing more than an opinion based on no studies whatsoever.  It's parroted from the fact that Precice can only handle 8cm.  US doctors impose this recommendation on patients so that they don't get hit with lawsuits.

Some patient's bodies can handle 12cm, some cant.  Just like some patients can handle 8cm and some can only handle 5cm.  It's super subjective.  If 8cm really was the max limit on femurs, patients with dwarfism wouldn't be able to grow 10-12 inches from LL.  Some of ya'll really don't think outside of the box and believe anything you're told.
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Tehn84

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2023, 02:41:42 AM »

You clearly new to the forum and know nothing about what your're talking about. Very few patients can safetely without any complications go above 8 cms on femurs. Paley who is the most experienced surgeon when it comes to LL on this planet, has also confirmed that almost all patients can't tolerate more and the precice nail was designed not to go further because of safety reasons.

If you as a human being avoid safety warnings and tips from the top most knowledgeable surgeons or people on a given subject your're an idiot.

I've forgotten more about LL than you know boyo, you're nothing more than another prospective patient. When you actually do the surgery maybe then I'll listen to what you have to say.

Problem is that doing 9+ cms guarantees screwed proportions. Some are fine with that but many aren't

If 9cm has screwed proportions it's likely 8 did as well.

https://www.tiktok.com/@le_tremba/video/7259867016461389083

this guy did 10.5cm and is walking fine.  8cm being an absolute max is nothing more than an opinion based on no studies whatsoever.  It's parroted from the fact that Precice can only handle 8cm.  US doctors impose this recommendation on patients so that they don't get hit with lawsuits.

Some patient's bodies can handle 12cm, some cant.  Just like some patients can handle 8cm and some can only handle 5cm.  It's super subjective.  If 8cm really was the max limit on femurs, patients with dwarfism wouldn't be able to grow 10-12 inches from LL.  Some of ya'll really don't think outside of the box and believe anything you're told.

Amen, unfortunately people here are cucks who need to be told what to do and won't even breathe unless their god Paley tells them it's ok.

There just simply isn't some hard wall where 8cm is fine and 8.1cm screws you for life. It's patient dependent. Also depends on how much of a recovery is acceptable to you. If "recovery" means walking at 100% and not much else, most people could do 9, maybe even 10. If "recovery" is loading 350lbs on your back like some incel and squatting then yeah 8cm is probably the max.
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Height Journey

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2023, 02:57:59 AM »

https://www.tiktok.com/@le_tremba/video/7259867016461389083

this guy did 10.5cm and is walking fine.  8cm being an absolute max is nothing more than an opinion based on no studies whatsoever.  It's parroted from the fact that Precice can only handle 8cm.  US doctors impose this recommendation on patients so that they don't get hit with lawsuits.

Some patient's bodies can handle 12cm, some cant.  Just like some patients can handle 8cm and some can only handle 5cm.  It's super subjective.  If 8cm really was the max limit on femurs, patients with dwarfism wouldn't be able to grow 10-12 inches from LL.  Some of ya'll really don't think outside of the box and believe anything you're told.

How do you know he did 10.5cm in the femurs alone? It looks like he split it up between the femurs and tibias for 10.5cm total.
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3.7cm tibias with Precice 2.2 nails in 2022
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Confidence

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2023, 03:07:23 AM »

How do you know he did 10.5cm in the femurs alone? It looks like he split it up between the femurs and tibias for 10.5cm total.

Because he has x-rays

https://www.instagram.com/p/Crbf6GDAd6-/?img_index=1
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Height Journey

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2023, 03:34:48 AM »

Because he has x-rays

https://www.instagram.com/p/Crbf6GDAd6-/?img_index=1

Yep, that's 10.5cm on the femurs. Good for him. However, I also worry for him that his internal femur nail is bent out of alignment into a knock knee position. One of the dangers of excessive lengthening.
https://imgur.com/a/YIXcM5q
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3.7cm tibias with Precice 2.2 nails in 2022
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Tehn84

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2023, 03:41:28 AM »

Yep, that's 10.5cm on the femurs. Good for him. However, I also worry for him that his internal femur nail is bent out of alignment into a knock knee position. One of the dangers of excessive lengthening.
https://imgur.com/a/YIXcM5q

His walking looks fine, video here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CvIUhqjN-Hm/
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informationispower

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2023, 06:48:01 AM »

His walking looks fine, video here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CvIUhqjN-Hm/

His walking is okayish.  It is only 4months post lengthening though

Edit: about your answer to the proportion thing, I agree. It's not that at 7 it is OK and than suddenly at 8 it looks bad. The more you lengthen the worse it looks but again, to some it is an issue while for others (like yourself) it isn't.

Me personally, I would prefer to lengthen a conservative amount (6cms max) to maintain proportions and in the worst case scenario wear an insole if I would not be completely satisfied. Again, this is me personally and being exactly your starting height I believe that we need lesser amounts and less proportional sacrifice to reach a height that is xno longer a negative
« Last Edit: July 31, 2023, 09:53:57 AM by informationispower »
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DanishViking

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2023, 07:50:03 AM »

Wait and see 10-20 years down the line and his chances of having problem with early arthisis and joint problems are much higher... Not worth gambeling with your legs and health for 1-3 cm more height. That is barely noticeable anyway for other people
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betzbone1236

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2023, 10:09:24 AM »

I stopped clicking 10 days ago. I did 12.36cm. I have diary you can follow my entire journey.
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I did 12.36cm (4.86 inch) on femurs.

Here is my diary (with videos): https://limblengthening/threads/betzbone-surgery-dr-becker-january-2023.5/

betzbone1236

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2023, 10:12:39 AM »

Betz Institute literally claims they can go for a maximum of up to 12 cm on femurs. Since that is way over the safe limit of 8 cm advised by many, how realistic is that? Are there people who've went to Dr. Betz and successfully recovered after such amount?

Some people can go up to 12 while some will stop much sooner for various reasons. It all depends on individual. I tried my best to stay disciplined and do things right as i could till end of lengthening.
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I did 12.36cm (4.86 inch) on femurs.

Here is my diary (with videos): https://limblengthening/threads/betzbone-surgery-dr-becker-january-2023.5/

betzbone1236

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2023, 10:15:03 AM »

There are guys who have done it and been fine. Also people who've ruined themselves.

Mad respect for anyone who actually gets to 12cm. It's hard enough at the latter stages of 8cm, nevermind with 4cm more added. I feel most guys would stop long before simply because of muscle and tendon tightness.

You are spot on!
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I did 12.36cm (4.86 inch) on femurs.

Here is my diary (with videos): https://limblengthening/threads/betzbone-surgery-dr-becker-january-2023.5/

TheDream

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2023, 11:06:35 AM »

Dont feed the troll.
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Tehn84

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2023, 07:07:12 PM »

His walking is okayish.  It is only 4months post lengthening though

Edit: about your answer to the proportion thing, I agree. It's not that at 7 it is OK and than suddenly at 8 it looks bad. The more you lengthen the worse it looks but again, to some it is an issue while for others (like yourself) it isn't.

Me personally, I would prefer to lengthen a conservative amount (6cms max) to maintain proportions and in the worst case scenario wear an insole if I would not be completely satisfied. Again, this is me personally and being exactly your starting height I believe that we need lesser amounts and less proportional sacrifice to reach a height that is xno longer a negative

Assuming we stick with the standard 1cm lengthening = 1 month of recovery time, and assuming it took him 5 months to lengthen 11.5cm (accounting for probable slowdown as he got higher in the centimetres, then again this is LLT and Turkey so you never know..) I'd say 4 months post lengthening (9 months post surgery) this is a decent result. In another 2-3 months he'll be 100% normal for walking looking at this.

I'd certainly feel more comfortable doing a big amount with Betz/Becker in Germany rather than LON in the femurs in Turkey mind you. Gamble seems to have paid off here though.

I did 8.5 (which was actually 9cm on the nail as I had a 3mm discrepancy that needed correcting first, and Dr Giotikas said you need to do 2mm more than your goal to get the actual height you need because of the inaccuracy of xrays and the Q-angle). So could have done another centimetre as I think the gnail maxes out at 10cm. Kinda wish I did although I'm still very happy with the result and to have walked away unharmed and much taller. My femurs do look big, but as far as I'm aware femur/tibia ratio doesn't vary that much across the population, it's an average of 0.8 with only very small amounts of variance, so anyone lengthening any reasonable amount is gonna have 'long looking' femurs when they look in the mirror nked.
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GrowGrow123

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2023, 07:20:14 PM »

I've forgotten more about LL than you know boyo, you're nothing more than another prospective patient. When you actually do the surgery maybe then I'll listen to what you have to say.

If 9cm has screwed proportions it's likely 8 did as well.

Amen, unfortunately people here are cucks who need to be told what to do and won't even breathe unless their god Paley tells them it's ok.

There just simply isn't some hard wall where 8cm is fine and 8.1cm screws you for life. It's patient dependent. Also depends on how much of a recovery is acceptable to you. If "recovery" means walking at 100% and not much else, most people could do 9, maybe even 10. If "recovery" is loading 350lbs on your back like some incel and squatting then yeah 8cm is probably the max.

If 10 cm has screwed proportions, it's likely 9 did as well. If 11 cm has screwed proportions, it's likely 10 did as well. If n+1 cm has screwed proportions, it's likely n did as well. See the faulty logic?

That being said, you are right about it being an individual-based thing. I did 8cm on femurs Precice and absolutely could have kept going if the machine allowed. As always, lengthen and observe. People shouldn't come in expecting that they can lengthen 12 cm, but I definitely think the vast majority of people can safely hit 8cm. 8 cm shouldn't be thought of as a "limit". It's more like the average safe amount that your typical patient can handle. Some can handle more, some can handle less.
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informationispower

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2023, 07:21:36 PM »

Assuming we stick with the standard 1cm lengthening = 1 month of recovery time, and assuming it took him 5 months to lengthen 11.5cm (accounting for probable slowdown as he got higher in the centimetres, then again this is LLT and Turkey so you never know..) I'd say 4 months post lengthening (9 months post surgery) this is a decent result. In another 2-3 months he'll be 100% normal for walking looking at this.

I'd certainly feel more comfortable doing a big amount with Betz/Becker in Germany rather than LON in the femurs in Turkey mind you. Gamble seems to have paid off here though.

I did 8.5 (which was actually 9cm on the nail as I had a 3mm discrepancy that needed correcting first, and Dr Giotikas said you need to do 2mm more than your goal to get the actual height you need because of the inaccuracy of xrays and the Q-angle). So could have done another centimetre as I think the gnail maxes out at 10cm. Kinda wish I did although I'm still very happy with the result and to have walked away unharmed and much taller. My femurs do look big, but as far as I'm aware femur/tibia ratio doesn't vary that much across the population, it's an average of 0.8 with only very small amounts of variance, so anyone lengthening any reasonable amount is gonna have 'long looking' femurs when they look in the mirror nked.

Just out of curiosity, does the actual result is the same as the mockups? I mean does it look the same or actually better/worse?
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Tehn84

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2023, 08:12:35 PM »

If 10 cm has screwed proportions, it's likely 9 did as well. If 11 cm has screwed proportions, it's likely 10 did as well. If n+1 cm has screwed proportions, it's likely n did as well. See the faulty logic?

That being said, you are right about it being an individual-based thing. I did 8cm on femurs Precice and absolutely could have kept going if the machine allowed. As always, lengthen and observe. People shouldn't come in expecting that they can lengthen 12 cm, but I definitely think the vast majority of people can safely hit 8cm. 8 cm shouldn't be thought of as a "limit". It's more like the average safe amount that your typical patient can handle. Some can handle more, some can handle less.

Funny how that same 'logic' is always trotted out here no problem when someone is talking about reducing their goals (i.e. no one's gonna notice 1cm extra in height bro!).

Yes it's true n+1 is likely only marginally worse than n in terms of proportions. I wasn't the one who brought up the proportions thing though, and you can just flip the same logic to a guy saying increasing a large amount will definitely ruin your proportions when it wont. Look at yourself in the mirror and decide if you like what you see is the only way to sensibly do this, but don't just stop at 8cm (unless Precise) unless that's genuinely your dream height or you look in the mirror and think increasing more in the femurs will look bad and outweigh the benefits of further height gain. But definitely don't decide based on 'the Lord our Father Paley said 8cm is the maximum', as Paley is just an orthopaedic surgeon, a very skilled one yes, but he's just a man, not a God, and is subject to the same biases and capability to be wrong on an individual case as anyone else. He's hardly going to tell prospective customers 10cm is safe for many when his nails only go to 8cm now, is he? They'd be on the next flight to Europe in that case.

Just out of curiosity, does the actual result is the same as the mockups? I mean does it look the same or actually better/worse?

I never did a 8.5cm mockup. I did an 8cm one in paint before starting the lengthening as at the time I also thought of 8cm as the goal. I'm not sure if it looks exactly the same as the mockup although 0.5cm isn't going to make or break anything in this regard. I think it looks perfectly fine tbh, like I say you can definitely notice the femurs are big but that's going to apply to anyone lengthening over 5cm or so.

Of course all this only applies when you're not wearing clothes. If you're in pants then it's completely indistinguishable from the rest of the population. And I've never had any comments even when nked, although I guess a girl is unlikely to say something like that to your face even if she's thinking it.

As for the height result being the same, yes I got 8.5cm increase in 'real' height, exactly as the xrays predicted once accounting for the discrepancy between my legs and the Q angle.
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informationispower

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Re: Betz Institute 12 cm femurs
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2023, 09:07:10 PM »

Funny how that same 'logic' is always trotted out here no problem when someone is talking about reducing their goals (i.e. no one's gonna notice 1cm extra in height bro!).

Yes it's true n+1 is likely only marginally worse than n in terms of proportions. I wasn't the one who brought up the proportions thing though, and you can just flip the same logic to a guy saying increasing a large amount will definitely ruin your proportions when it wont. Look at yourself in the mirror and decide if you like what you see is the only way to sensibly do this, but don't just stop at 8cm (unless Precise) unless that's genuinely your dream height or you look in the mirror and think increasing more in the femurs will look bad and outweigh the benefits of further height gain. But definitely don't decide based on 'the Lord our Father Paley said 8cm is the maximum', as Paley is just an orthopaedic surgeon, a very skilled one yes, but he's just a man, not a God, and is subject to the same biases and capability to be wrong on an individual case as anyone else. He's hardly going to tell prospective customers 10cm is safe for many when his nails only go to 8cm now, is he? They'd be on the next flight to Europe in that case.

I never did a 8.5cm mockup. I did an 8cm one in paint before starting the lengthening as at the time I also thought of 8cm as the goal. I'm not sure if it looks exactly the same as the mockup although 0.5cm isn't going to make or break anything in this regard. I think it looks perfectly fine tbh, like I say you can definitely notice the femurs are big but that's going to apply to anyone lengthening over 5cm or so.

Of course all this only applies when you're not wearing clothes. If you're in pants then it's completely indistinguishable from the rest of the population. And I've never had any comments even when nked, although I guess a girl is unlikely to say something like that to your face even if she's thinking it.

As for the height result being the same, yes I got 8.5cm increase in 'real' height, exactly as the xrays predicted once accounting for the discrepancy between my legs and the Q angle.

Are you satisfied with your height now being 178-179cm tall? Or are you planning for a tibia lengthening?

Also, I guess you are the multi-banned user so I have to ask, is dating at your new height really vastly easier than before like a night and day difference? I ask this because (1) I agree with your views that LL is almost exclusively for being better at dating (2) If even you might notice a difference, but not a big one, do you think the entire ordeal is worth for the supposed benefits it brings
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