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[mihai0123]

I've paid 1600euros in 2021 to reserve a spot for STRYDE surgery. STRYDE was recalled and since then I've been trying to get my money back from this so called doctor.
In every hospital I've been to, if the surgery doesn't happen because the hospital is missing some tools, you get your money back.
I'm thinking about suing. I don't care at this point if I spend 5k more on an attorney.
Posting this here for everyone else to be careful before they give any money to BJR or "Dr." Giotikas.

[Charizard]

Well i believe they have to reimburse the fee due to cancellation.

[mihai0123]

They say it is not their fault the surgery can no longer take place and they refuse to reimburse me.
I've made a complaint on the greek ombudsman and will also sue.

[Bagga]

They say it is not their fault the surgery can no longer take place and they refuse to reimburse me.
I've made a complaint on the greek ombudsman and will also sue.

You should have read the agreement before the payment.
It stated that this amount is non refundable if your surgery is cancelled for any reason out of BJR responsibility.
This amount is transferable to a new date if your surgery is postponed for any reason.
Dun waste your money on the lawsuit...likely you wont win and lose more time and money.

[Bruno1985]

For sure you need to sue it. They must give your money back since the surgery didn`t happen. It was not your fault either. Therefore it should be the ethical way to treat you. Stryde is out, so give the patient's money back.

It`s awful to know that you are struggling since 2021 to get the reimbursement back.

[mihai0123]

I spoke with a lawyer. He agrees that I should get my money back and it's against the law to not give me the service I paid for.
We made for start complaints to the Greek Ombudsman and the Health authority for Athens.
I know I'm paying more, but someone has to fight the scammers.

[DanishViking]

Isn't it possible to ask them if you can get the new stryde nail "precice max" which is going to release in Europe properly 2024/2025 without paying this fee again, instead of the old stryde nail or just 2 of the current nails used by them Gnail or Precice 2? And what about the rest of the money you paid for the surgery, did you get that back?

[Bagga]

Isn't it possible to ask them if you can get the new stryde nail "precice max" which is going to release in Europe properly 2024/2025 without paying this fee again, instead of the old stryde nail or just 2 of the current nails used by them Gnail or Precice 2? And what about the rest of the money you paid for the surgery, did you get that back?

I think it is possible but need to check with BJR.
It is better than spending another few thousands
"This amount is transferable to a new date if your surgery is postponed for any reason".

[Bagga]

I spoke with a lawyer. He agrees that I should get my money back and it's against the law to not give me the service I paid for.
We made for start complaints to the Greek Ombudsman and the Health authority for Athens.
I know I'm paying more, but someone has to fight the scammers.

Of course the lawyer would help you cos you are paying him.
The lawyer will be paid whether you get back 1.6k Euro or not.
Make your wise and sensible decision - stop spending more money and time...yet achieve nothing in the end.

Anyways, it is up to you.
Good Luck!

[Omar]

You should have read the agreement before the payment.
It stated that this amount is non refundable if your surgery is cancelled for any reason out of BJR responsibility.
This amount is transferable to a new date if your surgery is postponed for any reason.
Dun waste your money on the lawsuit...likely you wont win and lose more time and money.

Although you are right, the way you convey the message is very unpleasant. Maybe the contract entitles the doctor, the patient paid for a service that was not rendered, so I don't see why it shouldn't be reimbursed.

[DanishViking]

I honestly can't see the problem when it's possible to just choose a newer nail and date, then the money didn't go to waste, since you wouldn't have to pay twice. And I agree with all the others, you will gain nothing by sueing because you signed the agreement. The lawyer would tell you everything to earn some exstra cash from you. You will only lose time, money and maybe the ability to get a new date and nail...

[G8788]

I honestly can't see the problem when it's possible to just choose a newer nail and date, then the money didn't go to waste, since you wouldn't have to pay twice. And I agree with all the others, you will gain nothing by sueing because you signed the agreement. The lawyer would tell you everything to earn some exstra cash from you. You will only lose time, money and maybe the ability to get a new date and nail...

Contrary to popular belief, just because someone signed an agreement doesn't mean it's legally valid in a court. In general, an exclusion criteria cannot exclude the party liability from performing the contract itself (i.e. let's say you and me had a contract where I was to deliver 10kg of apples to your door for $50, a term that said that if I didn't deliver the apples no refund would be given isn't going to be legally valid in most places in the world).

I'd argue the withdrawal of the nail wanted means the contract is substantially frustrated and can no longer be performed, given choice of nail is a very critical decision when it comes to CLL. As such, yes, they need to refund the money.

[Maison]

I spoke with a lawyer. He agrees that I should get my money back and it's against the law to not give me the service I paid for.
We made for start complaints to the Greek Ombudsman and the Health authority for Athens.
I know I'm paying more, but someone has to fight the scammers.

Have you received any response from the Greek Ombudsman and the Health authority for Athens?

[Bagga]

Although you are right, the way you convey the message is very unpleasant. Maybe the contract entitles the doctor, the patient paid for a service that was not rendered, so I don't see why it shouldn't be reimbursed.

It was stated in BJR Agreement for the deposit if you are not aware.
If you dun agree, dun pay. If you pay, you should aware of such situation.

My message is very direct, nothing unpleasant unless you are simply over-sensitive.
We are stating the fact and reality rather than directing him to do wrong way without knowing the contract or agreement.

Mihai -- Stop pursue 1.6K Euro and probably you will waste more time and money spend. The alternative is to change the Surgery Date which BJR should be able to accommodate. Be wise !

[1team]

It was stated in BJR Agreement for the deposit if you are not aware.
If you dun agree, dun pay. If you pay, you should aware of such situation.

My message is very direct, nothing unpleasant unless you are simply over-sensitive.
We are stating the fact and reality rather than directing him to do wrong way without knowing the contract or agreement.

Mihai -- Stop pursue 1.6K Euro and probably you will waste more time and money spend. The alternative is to change the Surgery Date which BJR should be able to accommodate. Be wise !

Highly unlikely they would operate on a patient who has already threatened legal action against them. Doctors have turned down patients for far less.

[DanishViking]

I agree with Bagga, I can't find anything offensive by his earlier messages, no offense but I think you gotta grow up, and act as an adult. You can't sue your way out of life.

[G8788]

It was stated in BJR Agreement for the deposit if you are not aware.
If you dun agree, dun pay. If you pay, you should aware of such situation.

My message is very direct, nothing unpleasant unless you are simply over-sensitive.
We are stating the fact and reality rather than directing him to do wrong way without knowing the contract or agreement.

Mihai -- Stop pursue 1.6K Euro and probably you will waste more time and money spend. The alternative is to change the Surgery Date which BJR should be able to accommodate. Be wise !

This simply is not how law works. 'You agreed to it therefore you're screwed' isn't always the case, and it almost certainly wouldn't be here. There's plenty of terms in contracts that get thrown out by courts all the time.

A term like 'if we can't deliver the surgery we won't refund the money' isn't going to be legally valid in an EU country. Sure you might argue that you could use a different nail but that's a substantially different surgery - just like if someone offered you Precise instead of Gnail, it's now a totally different proposition with different risks and benefits.

OP definitely has a case, and anyone saying hurr hurr but the contract says is simply operating from a position of ignorance or fanboyism of a doctor.

[DanishViking]

Well one day when the case has been completed in court, please give us an update.

[Marie_Bard]

This simply is not how law works. 'You agreed to it therefore you're screwed' isn't always the case, and it almost certainly wouldn't be here. There's plenty of terms in contracts that get thrown out by courts all the time.

A term like 'if we can't deliver the surgery we won't refund the money' isn't going to be legally valid in an EU country. Sure you might argue that you could use a different nail but that's a substantially different surgery - just like if someone offered you Precise instead of Gnail, it's now a totally different proposition with different risks and benefits.

OP definitely has a case, and anyone saying hurr hurr but the contract says is simply operating from a position of ignorance or fanboyism of a doctor.

There are cases though where "Non-refundability" of a deposit is justified by law. For exampel, if (in this context) your commitment to be operated on a certain date resulted in expenses to the doctor or hospital (like booking an Operating room,  scheduling allocating staff, ordering shipping of devices and other supplies  etc) maybe they are legally intitled to keep the money if they are not in fault for the cancellation (especially if the terms were clearly expressed at the time when the commitment was requested). The other party then must just acccept the responsibility of their commitment  due to exceptional unforeseen events. I am not so sure you have a strong case here!

[Bagga]

There are cases though where "Non-refundability" of a deposit is justified by law. For exampel, if (in this context) your commitment to be operated on a certain date resulted in expenses to the doctor or hospital (like booking an Operating room,  scheduling allocating staff, ordering shipping of devices and other supplies  etc) maybe they are legally intitled to keep the money if they are not in fault for the cancellation (especially if the terms were clearly expressed at the time when the commitment was requested). The other party then must just acccept the responsibility of their commitment  due to exceptional unforeseen events. I am not so sure you have a strong case here!

People is giving opinion cos they are mot paying for legal proceeding fees and lawyer salary.
Let our dear friend make his decision then!
Hope he is not a "penny wise pound foolish" LOL!

[G8788]

There are cases though where "Non-refundability" of a deposit is justified by law. For exampel, if (in this context) your commitment to be operated on a certain date resulted in expenses to the doctor or hospital (like booking an Operating room,  scheduling allocating staff, ordering shipping of devices and other supplies  etc) maybe they are legally intitled to keep the money if they are not in fault for the cancellation (especially if the terms were clearly expressed at the time when the commitment was requested). The other party then must just acccept the responsibility of their commitment  due to exceptional unforeseen events. I am not so sure you have a strong case here!

Nope, wouldn't put the business on the stronger footing because they incurred expenses. That's called the cost of doing business, fundamentally the contract is you will pay x and I will provide y, if y isn't provided due to no fault of the party requesting y, there is absolutely a case.

People is giving opinion cos they are mot paying for legal proceeding fees and lawyer salary.
Let our dear friend make his decision then!
Hope he is not a "penny wise pound foolish" LOL!

It's very clear you have no knowledge about how the legal system works. Contracts that contain terms that break the law of the land aren't valid. You can't be absolved from liability for providing the substance of the contract itself while at the same time keeping the money that was given for the performance of the contract, it doesn't matter what was signed and agreed.

[Bagga]

Nope, wouldn't put the business on the stronger footing because they incurred expenses. That's called the cost of doing business, fundamentally the contract is you will pay x and I will provide y, if y isn't provided due to no fault of the party requesting y, there is absolutely a case.

It's very clear you have no knowledge about how the legal system works. Contracts that contain terms that break the law of the land aren't valid. You can't be absolved from liability for providing the substance of the contract itself while at the same time keeping the money that was given for the performance of the contract, it doesn't matter what was signed and agreed.

Pls sponsor him for the legal and lawyer fees.
Ciao!

[G8788]

Pls sponsor him for the legal and lawyer fees.
Ciao!

Sure if I get a cut of the winnings.

How much will you be contributing to the legal defence of Athens BJR?

[Omar]

Pls sponsor him for the legal and lawyer fees.
Ciao!

I suspect you are close to the Dr Giotikas. You support him a lot

[GrowGrow123]

Don’t know who’s in the legal right or wrong here, but it’s pretty  sh*ty / borderline unethical that your deposit wasn’t returned. The doctor could totally just return the deposit to you as a token of good faith. Doubt he’s hurting for money.

[Bagga]

I suspect you are close to the Dr Giotikas. You support him a lot

LOL

I m helping the guy to make wise decision.
Of course, he can engage lawyer and fight the case, ending spend more money and time.
Sometimes, we need to be smart and do the Cost-benefit analysis.

[Bagga]

Sure if I get a cut of the winnings.

How much will you be contributing to the legal defence of Athens BJR?

My Wise Advise is priceless!

[G8788]

My Wise Advise is priceless!

Your 'advice' is to be a cuck and let a company get away with cheating you. No thanks.

This won't cost much in Europe to contest. You won't need a lawyer. Just file the claim here under the small claims procedure, it's very simple: https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/solving-disputes/european-small-claims-procedure/index_en.htm

No legal costs can be claimed back by the losing party either so no, you won't be on the hook for Athens BJR's fees in the highly unlikely event they won. All that's payable is the court fee by the losing party.

I've sued 3 companies before (not for LL) and won each time. Plenty of companies have unenforceable and outright illegal terms and conditions in their contracts, it doesn't matter if you 'agree' to it or not, stuff like this has the same legal validity as an 'agreement' to smuggle 1kg of cocaine from Albania to Germany.

[mihai0123]

Received a reply from the Greek ombudsman for extra documents, like the e-mail and the e-receipt.
I also submitted an European small claims procedure to the court of Athens, thank you for the hint.
Contacted a lawyer for a case in Athens but I'm gonna wait a bit to see the result of these 2 actions first.
To reply to others, I spoke to a friend lawyer who said that in my country (also EU) this is a case that I can win, though nothing is guaranteed in courts.
Let me explain the reason why I do this, because some people think i shouldn't waste more money on this. I'm well off and I have money to spend. I absolutely hate how I was treated by them and cheated and their messages to me. To some emails they just don't reply. Also how they just postponed me some months because the device will be back.
I am willing and will spend a lot of money and energy to fight them. That is an illegal claim in the contract. Also, a tourist trip to Athens, in which I also pay them a "nice" visit doesn't sound too bad.
If somebody else has some other ideas on how to fight them, please share.
Yours, M (full of anger)

[DanishViking]

What are you going to do to them if you decide to visit them?

[mihai0123]

After a couple of months of waiting, I'm glad to report that justice has been done.
Through the European small claims procedure I got my money back from Athens BJR.
As expected, the court decided that the conditions were unlawful. They cannot withhold the deposit if they can't offer the product I paid for (regardless of the reason).
If anyone else is in the same situation, please sue. It is really simple and you get your money back !00%.
Thanks to everyone here for your help and to the guy who told me about this small claims court.
So happy.