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[LG1816]

Where do you think it stems from? Is it just the fact that it's the closest round measurment beyond the 5 foot heights and so has come to signify the standard of tallness? I've heard that in European countries, 180cm is the standard for that reason.

I mean, do people even know what six foot looks like? Can they distinguish it from other heights? I certainly can't tell if someone is six foot or not -- only that they are relatively tall. I don't think I'd be able to guess someone's height within about an inch either side of six foot; and that degree of accuracy I put down to being nearish average height myself.

In this case, it must be way harder for women to actually deduce what six foot looks like. So perhaps 5'11 and 6foot are basically the same thing.

I'm 5'8.5, and could potentially lengthen tibias to get to six foot and achieve a 1:1 tibia/femur ratio. Obviously, there's the recovery implications for lengthening that much, which I'm heavily considering, but ignoring that for the movement and focusing on the context of this discussion; is it in anyway worth pushing for six foot and not just going for 5'11?

With such a big operation, it's easy to have anxiety about pushing for as much height as you can get without it being exponentially detrimental, and to be able to get to 5'11 relatively easily, it's hard not to wonder weather pushing for that extra inch (the maximum) is worth it or not.

Thoughts? Thanks!

[HateLAPELoveSTEM]

Most people from my experience (I have worked in field marketing approching thousands of people) think that your're about 1-2 inches / 2,5-5 cm taller than what you actually are. Usually because of shoes but if your're lean or have a nice slim style clothing, that can help you as well. So no even if your're 5'10 without shoes and then wearing shoes in public, most people would consider you tall. Between 5'8 to 5'10 / 172 - 178 cm in the western world without shoes is were most people perceive you as standard. 5'6 to 5'8 / 167 - 172 cm is when your're standard short and under that it's starting to become unsually short and you will properly experience discrimination and get comments. However you could just love yourself enough to not care if you work enough on yourself. Height is definitly not anything and NOT the most important aspect of being a man. Confidence, style, social skills, face matters much more, at least inside Europe. HOWEVER the shorter you are, the more it matters and becomes an issue for women when it comes to dating. Espically under 5'6 / 167 cm, when your're shorter than almost all guys. I'm talking about how it is in Europe btw, never traveled to the US but have heard that they care more about height over there.

This guy is from the US 174 cm / 5'8'5 WITHOUT SHOES and pretty much every single person he asks in the video, finds him to be about average height and NOT short.



Oh and don't do Tibia only!!

Most people start to get complications after 4,5 cm according to cyborg4life and most surgeons set the safe limit to 5 cm for tibias. In generel doing tibias is a stupid idea unless your're planning on doing both segments femur + tibia or you find out after x-ray scanning that you have abnormally long femurs compared to tibias.

They heal slower, have a higher complication rate, increase chance of joint problems / early arthisis, less overall safe length achieved / cutting 2 bones (tibia+fibula) vs 1 for femur etc.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26398436/

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=83172.0 (this guy did what you want and got a horrible outcome...


- see 11:50 - 14:40

So since my night height is 162cm without socks, I am considered as 165cm or even taller?? If so I will claim myself as 165+cm tall lmfao

[Body Builder]

Most people from my experience (I have worked in field marketing approching thousands of people) think that your're about 1-2 inches / 2,5-5 cm taller than what you actually are. Usually because of shoes but if your're lean or have a nice slim style clothing, that can help you as well. So no even if your're 5'10 without shoes and then wearing shoes in public, most people would consider you tall. Between 5'8 to 5'10 / 172 - 178 cm in the western world without shoes is were most people perceive you as standard. 5'6 to 5'8 / 167 - 172 cm is when your're standard short and under that it's starting to become unsually short and you will properly experience discrimination and get comments. However you could just love yourself enough to not care if you work enough on yourself. Height is definitly not anything and NOT the most important aspect of being a man. Confidence, style, social skills, face matters much more, at least inside Europe. HOWEVER the shorter you are, the more it matters and becomes an issue for women when it comes to dating. Espically under 5'6 / 167 cm, when your're shorter than almost all guys. I'm talking about how it is in Europe btw, never traveled to the US but have heard that they care more about height over there.

This guy is from the US 174 cm / 5'8'5 WITHOUT SHOES and pretty much every single person he asks in the video, finds him to be about average height and NOT short.



Oh and don't do Tibia only!!

Most people start to get complications after 4,5 cm according to cyborg4life and most surgeons set the safe limit to 5 cm for tibias. In generel doing tibias is a stupid idea unless your're planning on doing both segments femur + tibia or you find out after x-ray scanning that you have abnormally long femurs compared to tibias.

They heal slower, have a higher complication rate, increase chance of joint problems / early arthisis, less overall safe length achieved / cutting 2 bones (tibia+fibula) vs 1 for femur etc.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26398436/

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=83172.0 (this guy did what you want and got a horrible outcome...


- see 11:50 - 14:40

You keep writing nonsense about tibia LL. No need to write again why almost all you wrote about the superiority of femur LL cimpared to tibia is bs. But the only truth is that external tibias is the safest way to do LL and the cheapest. And uonto 6-6.5cm are safe for almost any LLer, at least not less than 8cm on femurs.
I agree about most.of the other things about height you wrote but stop spreading false data about tibia LL. And of course someone who.want only.on LL can do tibias and as I mentioned, if he doesn't want any internal nail to keep his surgery safer, less painful and cheaper the only way to do it is tibia LL.

[NailedLegs]

You keep writing nonsense about tibia LL. No need to write again why almost all you wrote about the superiority of femur LL cimpared to tibia is bs. But the only truth is that external tibias is the safest way to do LL and the cheapest. And uonto 6-6.5cm are safe for almost any LLer, at least not less than 8cm on femurs.
I agree about most.of the other things about height you wrote but stop spreading false data about tibia LL. And of course someone who.want only.on LL can do tibias and as I mentioned, if he doesn't want any internal nail to keep his surgery safer, less painful and cheaper the only way to do it is tibia LL.

I understand the argument of doing completely external tibia lengthening, which would avoid having to go through the patella in order to insert the nail. But with the massive downside of having to wear the bulky frames until the bone can fully consolidate, versus something like LATN where you can weight bear once the rod is secured and the bone is stabilized.

"external tibias is the safest way to do LL"

How do you quantify safety? Because the risk of infection with an internal nail is essentially zero, particularly when the surgical wounds have healed and your skin and stitches are no longer open(Only takes about a week), versus external which--

"This can range from a simple superficial pin tract infection to life- or limb-threatening infections, such as necrotising fasciitis (NF) or toxic shock syndrome (TSS)"

"The incidence of pin tract infection with the long-term use of external fixators is reported to range from 11.3% to 100%"

Source: https://boneandjoint.org.uk/Article/10.1302/0301-620X.97B9.35626

So while superficial infections are common, and serious/life threatening infections are extremely uncommon, the fact is that it can be avoided by just using an internal lengthening device. Why risk getting a deep bone infection? As long as the wound is open, you are at a constant risk of developing an infection.

And from the study DanishViking posted, which I talked about extensively in another thread too--

"Increasing tibia length relative to femur length was found to be a significant predictor of ipsilateral hip and knee arthritis. Therefore, we recommend that when performing limb lengthening, surgical planning should lean toward recreating the normal ratio of 0.80."

So explain to me how you can say "external tibias is the safest way to do LL" and "And of course someone who.want only.on LL can do tibias and as I mentioned". What body of evidence are you drawing that conclusion from? What reputable Doctor holds the same opinion as yours?

[NailedLegs]

Here's another study talking about infections with external fixators.

"Most infections were mild or moderate, whereas only 3 (9%) severe deep infections were noted (grade 5)"

So with a sample size of 30, 3 or 9% of them had severe deep infections. Granted, these are trauma patients with an age range of 7-19, but that's who these external frames are for. Not cosmetic patients like us!

Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022346807002874

I cannot deny that external fixators such as TSF are the cheapest way to do Limb Lengthening. But why are we discussing how to do this incredibly invasive procedure cheaply? Why are we pretending that this is a valid option for a cosmetic procedure? I don't believe very many of us, if any at all, are here because of dwarfism or are a trauma patient. So why are we using external fixators?

Because people want to do this surgery for as cheap as possible.

If you want to risk your own legs, that's up to you! But it is wrong to not accurately describe what we're dealing with here!

[le0csff]

I cannot deny that external fixators such as TSF are the cheapest way to do Limb Lengthening. But why are we discussing how to do this incredibly invasive procedure cheaply? Why are we pretending that this is a valid option for a cosmetic procedure?

Don't act like price isn't significant. This stuff about 'don't cheap out bro' is almost always coming from a position of massive privilege where daddy's connections got you a good job, you were born into a rich family, or some other method where money essentially grows on trees.

For a lot of people, the choice is external tibias or don't get LL at all. There's no option just to magically summon $80k to do internals with a US doctor, $20k in Russia or Vietnam etc might be all they can do. Pontificating about how one 'shouldn't go cheap' while sat in your western country getting paid a top 5% salary is kinda gross and insulting, tbh.

[NailedLegs]

Don't act like price isn't significant. This stuff about 'don't cheap out bro' is almost always coming from a position of massive privilege where daddy's connections got you a good job, you were born into a rich family, or some other method where money essentially grows on trees.

For a lot of people, the choice is external tibias or don't get LL at all. There's no option just to magically summon $80k to do internals with a US doctor, $20k in Russia or Vietnam etc might be all they can do. Pontificating about how one 'shouldn't go cheap' while sat in your western country getting paid a top 5% salary is kinda gross and insulting, tbh.

Every damn dollar I have I earned. Nobody gave me  . I left home at 18 years old without any help after graduating high school. I worked hard to get to where I am today. I wasn't given free money. I wasn't given jobs because of family connections. I earned my keep. Top 5% salary? Not even close bud. I've been saving for the last ~2 years, and will continue to save for another year so that I can afford to do this surgery the right way. I even took a job on the other side of the country so that I could further my goals.

The only one here gross and insulting is you. You don't know my story. You don't know   about me. You don't know the struggles I've gone through.

"80k". This just shows how little you know about this procedure. There are plenty of reputable surgeons around the world where you can get those procedure done for far less. You can get your femurs done with the Precice 2.2 nail by Dr. Giotikas for 44k. You can get it done by Dr. Birkholtz for 50k. You could(Precice isn't currently available in India, apparently) get it done by Dr. Parihar for ~42k.

If you want to get external tibias, that's your choice! I don't control what you do with your body. The point is, everyone needs to understand the severity of this procedure, and claiming external tibias only is the safest way to do Limb Lengthening is outright false. I acknowledge that price is a factor in this procedure. But why don't you acknowledge that safety is too? You are being disingenuous. People come to this forum to conduct research, and spewing nonsense could harm them in ways that could've been entirely avoided. Great job ignoring the rest of my argument.

[BestOfLuck]

Don't act like price isn't significant. This stuff about 'don't cheap out bro' is almost always coming from a position of massive privilege where daddy's connections got you a good job, you were born into a rich family, or some other method where money essentially grows on trees.

For a lot of people, the choice is external tibias or don't get LL at all. There's no option just to magically summon $80k to do internals with a US doctor, $20k in Russia or Vietnam etc might be all they can do. Pontificating about how one 'shouldn't go cheap' while sat in your western country getting paid a top 5% salary is kinda gross and insulting, tbh.

This is a crazy thought i know, but have you ever stopped and thought that maybe, just maybe this surgery isnt meant for people who are fkn broke??  Its always blown my mind that people even consider this surgery before having even a semi decent job and some money saved. Like are you that desperate you would rather focus on your height then your goddamn job? Logical people with even a small bit of reasoning focus on there life (look maxing. Staying fit and healthy. Getting a career and saving) and THEN after all that they consider LL as the final thing to tally off the list. The problem with goonies like you is you don’t understand that this surgery is only for the rich, or those who actually worked and became succesful throughout there life. Stop prioritizing fkn LL over establishing your life. Its generally pathetic.

[le0csff]

Every damn dollar I have I earned. Nobody gave me  . I left home at 18 years old without any help after graduating high school. I worked hard to get to where I am today. I wasn't given free money. I wasn't given jobs because of family connections. I earned my keep. Top 5% salary? Not even close bud. I've been saving for the last ~2 years, and will continue to save for another year so that I can afford to do this surgery the right way. I even took a job on the other side of the country so that I could further my goals.

The only one here gross and insulting is you. You don't know my story. You don't know   about me. You don't know the struggles I've gone through.

"80k". This just shows how little you know about this procedure. There are plenty of reputable surgeons around the world where you can get those procedure done for far less. You can get your femurs done with the Precice 2.2 nail by Dr. Giotikas for 44k. You can get it done by Dr. Birkholtz for 50k. You could(Precice isn't currently available in India, apparently) get it done by Dr. Parihar for ~42k.

If you want to get external tibias, that's your choice! I don't control what you do with your body. The point is, everyone needs to understand the severity of this procedure, and claiming external tibias only is the safest way to do Limb Lengthening is outright false. I acknowledge that price is a factor in this procedure. But why don't you acknowledge that safety is too? You are being disingenuous. People come to this forum to conduct research, and spewing nonsense could harm them in ways that could've been entirely avoided. Great job ignoring the rest of my argument.

I couldn't give a toss boyo since everyone claims they made their own money from nothing, I have no reason to believe your story over anyone elses. Whether you did or didn't is quite frankly irrelevant anyway, it doesn't mean everyone has a spare 80k (or 50k) to chuck at this. The difference between 50k and 20k could easily be the difference between being able to do the surgery and not being able to do it.

Hardly anyone is claiming external tibias is the best method. Of course if money is unlimited do internals. But don't just brush over the money aspect like it's nothing, price is very very much a consideration for the overwhelming majority of people out there.

This is a crazy thought i know, but have you ever stopped and thought that maybe, just maybe this surgery isnt meant for people who are fkn broke??  Its always blown my mind that people even consider this surgery before having even a semi decent job and some money saved. Like are you that desperate you would rather focus on your height then your goddamn job? Logical people with even a small bit of reasoning focus on there life (look maxing. Staying fit and healthy. Getting a career and saving) and THEN after all that they consider LL as the final thing to tally off the list. The problem with goonies like you is you don’t understand that this surgery is only for the rich, or those who actually worked and became succesful throughout there life. Stop prioritizing fkn LL over establishing your life. Its generally pathetic.

Of course being taller is more important than having a 'semi decent job', that's not even remotely debatable.

BTW someone who has $20k saved up isn't 'broke', or even close to it. That's more than the overwhelming majority of Americans and Europeans have in the bank.

[BestOfLuck]

My entire point went over your head. Id personally recommend going back to school over LL for you, as criticisms go through one ear and out the other. My point isnt whats more important, the point is that broke fks like yourself shouldnt even be doing the surgery. Go ahead and get a loan and cheap out on this surgery thats your choice. Youll be shocked to realize girls arent interested in dating or getting married to a guy who went broke getting CLL because he was so insecure he opted for THAT over establishing his livelihood first. You really wanna go broke for LL of all things…?

(Edit) i posted this before you edited your reply saying you have 20k, so dont lecture me

[dboy123]

I'm also 5'8, your height, and honestly I'm planning on doing just 6.5-6.7cm to be a weak 5'11 as my wingspan is 5'10 and the difference between 5'11 and 6 foot isnt even noticiabhle hell even at my height ppl thought my 5'10 friend were the same height. But if your planning on doing 1 surgery just go big and get to 6foot so you can be satisfied.

[le0csff]

My entire point went over your head. Id personally recommend going back to school over LL for you, as criticisms go through one ear and out the other. My point isnt whats more important, the point is that broke fks like yourself shouldnt even be doing the surgery. Go ahead and get a loan and cheap out on this surgery thats your choice. Youll be shocked to realize girls arent interested in dating or getting married to a guy who went broke getting CLL because he was so insecure he opted for THAT over establishing his livelihood first. You really wanna go broke for LL of all things…?

(Edit) i posted this before you edited your reply saying you have 20k, so dont lecture me

Lot of projection going on here. I've told you nothing of myself or my circumstances, I'm just telling you - and it's a fact - that the difference between internal femur money and external tibia money is highly significant for the vast majority of the world. Given you want to get this surgery as young as possible to maximise the benefit, that's even moreso, as in general younger people have less money than older ones.

Of course a girl will be more interested in dating a guy who is taller over a rich manlet, lol. At least any girl who is of prime age that we actually want. No 18 year old girl gives a fk about how much money you have or don't have, jfl. They only start to care about that chit when they're 25+ (i.e. past their peak and on the way down).

[BestOfLuck]

Lot of projection going on here. I've told you nothing of myself or my circumstances, I'm just telling you - and it's a fact - that the difference between internal femur money and external tibia money is highly significant for the vast majority of the world. Given you want to get this surgery as young as possible to maximise the benefit, that's even moreso, as in general younger people have less money than older ones.

Of course a girl will be more interested in dating a guy who is taller over a rich manlet, lol. At least any girl who is of prime age that we actually want. No 18 year old girl gives a fk about how much money you have or don't have, jfl. They only start to care about that chit when they're 25+ (i.e. past their peak and on the way down).

You dont need to tell me anything, the fact that you worry about money and would consider externals says all i need to know. Im aware its better to do it young. Im 20 and am doing mine in a year so you dont gotta tell me that twice, anyone with a brain would rather get this done young then old, atleast when your young you can still go to clubs and actually fit in.

[le0csff]

You dont need to tell me anything, the fact that you worry about money and would consider externals says all i need to know. Im aware its better to do it young. Im 20 and am doing mine in a year so you dont gotta tell me that twice, anyone with a brain would rather get this done young then old, atleast when your young you can still go to clubs and actually fit in.

Well I do need to tell you something since you seem to think arguing a point means you MUST be in that particular group that'd be affected. It's not true at all, just requires a bit more perspective than your own back garden.

How many young people (lets say 18-22) have $80k? How many have $50k, even? Not all that many. Hell, not even that many have $20k, but it's a more attainable target than 50 or 80. Saving up for internals over externals involves an opportunity cost i.e. the time spent saving is more time on this earth you're living as a manlet. The kind of jobs one is getting at 18-22 aren't the sort that'll allow you to save a lot of money quickly for the most part, although I'm well aware you're going to come back with a totally unverifiable and irrelevant claim that you did it, just to puff yourself up. I don't care, kiddo.

Externals are obviously a weaker option than internals, but that's really just like saying a Ford is a weaker option than a Ferrari. If you need a car, and you can only afford the Ford, well that's what it'll have to be. No point trying to 'save up' for the Ferrari since that's chasing a future that'll probably never come to pass, and if it does you'll be substantially older and missed out on the main benefits of buying it to begin with.

[NailedLegs]

I couldn't give a toss boyo since everyone claims they made their own money from nothing, I have no reason to believe your story over anyone elses. Whether you did or didn't is quite frankly irrelevant anyway, it doesn't mean everyone has a spare 80k (or 50k) to chuck at this. The difference between 50k and 20k could easily be the difference between being able to do the surgery and not being able to do it.

Hardly anyone is claiming external tibias is the best method. Of course if money is unlimited do internals. But don't just brush over the money aspect like it's nothing, price is very very much a consideration for the overwhelming majority of people out there.
Of course being taller is more important than having a 'semi decent job', that's not even remotely debatable.

BTW someone who has $20k saved up isn't 'broke', or even close to it. That's more than the overwhelming majority of Americans and Europeans have in the bank.

I don't give a rats hoohaa about what you think. I know how I made my honest money with honest work. Go and get your tibas done with externals. Do it. Make sure you write a diary, then when you likely develop arthritis in your knees or hips we can all use you as an example and another statistic. We can point to you and tell others what NOT to do.

>Hardly anyone is claiming external tibias is the best method.

Body Builder did, and thats why I replied to him specifically. Did you even read the whole thread? Or do you just post nonsense without getting the full picture first?

>But don't just brush over the money aspect like it's nothing, price is very very much a consideration

This proves you don't read before posting. I already said I acknowledge the price factor. Like I said, I cannot deny that doing externals such as TSF is going to likely be the cheapest way to do Limb Lengthening. I already mentioned that, but like the rest of my argument, you ignored it.

My point is clear. If you want to do external tibias only, go ahead. But understand that it is NOT the safest way to do Limb Lengthening. While you CAN use external devices, you SHOULD NOT due to the complications and risks. While you CAN lengthen tibias alone, you SHOULD NOT due to it significantly increasing the risk of complications such as hip and knee arthritis. Do you understand now, or will you continue to argue in bad faith?

[informationispower]

Lot of projection going on here. I've told you nothing of myself or my circumstances, I'm just telling you - and it's a fact - that the difference between internal femur money and external tibia money is highly significant for the vast majority of the world. Given you want to get this surgery as young as possible to maximise the benefit, that's even moreso, as in general younger people have less money than older ones.

Of course a girl will be more interested in dating a guy who is taller over a rich manlet, lol. At least any girl who is of prime age that we actually want. No 18 year old girl gives a fk about how much money you have or don't have, jfl. They only start to care about that chit when they're 25+ (i.e. past their peak and on the way down).

I don't know how old you are but I guess early 20s, but women are at their prime between 23-28. I even had a recent discussion about this with collegues haha. Women are at their peak at 25-26 and few maintain their prime till like 32-33. Most 26+ guys I know don't even consider a 18 years ild girl lol

[le0csff]

My point is clear. If you want to do external tibias only, go ahead. But understand that it is NOT the safest way to do Limb Lengthening. While you CAN use external devices, you SHOULD NOT due to the complications and risks. While you CAN lengthen tibias alone, you SHOULD NOT due to it significantly increasing the risk of complications such as hip and knee arthritis. Do you understand now, or will you continue to argue in bad faith?

You SHOULD if it's all you can do.

I don't know how old you are but I guess early 20s, but women are at their prime between 23-28. I even had a recent discussion about this with collegues haha. Women are at their peak at 25-26 and few maintain their prime till like 32-33. Most 26+ guys I know don't even consider a 18 years ild girl lol

Absolute rubbish, womens looks peak about 16-19, prime is up to about 22, after that the collagen reaper starts hitting them, earlier if they've been on the drink/drugs lifestyle but it comes for them all pretty quick. No one can seriously suggest a 32 year old is hotter than an 18 year old, major fking copium there.

[informationispower]

You SHOULD if it's all you can do.

Absolute rubbish, womens looks peak about 16-19, prime is up to about 22, after that the collagen reaper starts hitting them, earlier if they've been on the drink/drugs lifestyle but it comes for them all pretty quick. No one can seriously suggest a 32 year old is hotter than an 18 year old, major fking copium there.

Lol. Peak at 16... Are you a pedo or something? Unless you are like max 22 years old, you have no idea what you are talking about

[le0csff]

Lol. Peak at 16... Are you a pedo or something? Unless you are like max 22 years old, you have no idea what you are talking about

Age of consent in well, just about everywhere outside the cucked USA is between 14-16. Yeah I've banged a 16 year old and a few 17 year olds when I was in my mid 20s, if that makes me a 'pedo' in your book then go right ahead. I'm 31 now and would 100% opt for a 16-21 year old over a 30 year old woman, no doubt about it whatsoever.

[Body Builder]

Here's another study talking about infections with external fixators.

"Most infections were mild or moderate, whereas only 3 (9%) severe deep infections were noted (grade 5)"

So with a sample size of 30, 3 or 9% of them had severe deep infections. Granted, these are trauma patients with an age range of 7-19, but that's who these external frames are for. Not cosmetic patients like us!

Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022346807002874

I cannot deny that external fixators such as TSF are the cheapest way to do Limb Lengthening. But why are we discussing how to do this incredibly invasive procedure cheaply? Why are we pretending that this is a valid option for a cosmetic procedure? I don't believe very many of us, if any at all, are here because of dwarfism or are a trauma patient. So why are we using external fixators?

Because people want to do this surgery for as cheap as possible.

If you want to risk your own legs, that's up to you! But it is wrong to not accurately describe what we're dealing with here!

With internals if there is a deep intramedullar infection it could lead even to amputation.
With externals the only way to have a major infection is to not take any antibiotics for many days while you see your pin site swelling and you suffer from pain. That means you have a butcher as a doctor because in ANY other case he would simoly give you some augmentin or similar antibiotics orally for less than a week and you'll be comoletely fine.
 
Serious infections are NOT a risk for externals in general. In internals on the other hand infections might be more rare but there are multiple times more serious. There is no way 9% possibilities to have a deep imfection with externals, I am completely sure about it. Maybe 1% but not more than that.

And there is no reason to not use external fixators for LL, especially when we talk about hexapods.
They are fully weight bearing from the first day of your surgery, they can protect you from any malunion, they are way less invasive than any internal nail, they don't need any major surgery to get it out so you only do one big surgery in contrast to internals and it is way cheaper.
The only drawback.is that they are bulky but most patients get.used to them very easy. And they are almost painless compared to internals.
These are the reasons to.use ilizarovs for LL on tibias. And they are way more than the reasons to use internal nails, especially the obsolete mechanical craps that most of LLers use after stryde went off market.

[NailedLegs]

You SHOULD if it's all you can do.

Absolute rubbish, womens looks peak about 16-19, prime is up to about 22, after that the collagen reaper starts hitting them, earlier if they've been on the drink/drugs lifestyle but it comes for them all pretty quick. No one can seriously suggest a 32 year old is hotter than an 18 year old, major fking copium there.

Once again you ignored the rest of my argument and only responded to part of it. But at least we're making progress here, I had to slow things down for you.

If you choose to do it, then at least be informed. It's called informed consent, and is an incredibly important part of medical care. Understand that external tibias only comes with risks. Let's not downplay the risks. Let's not claim its the safest way to do Limb Lengthening. Let's inform prospective patients about the pros and cons of the different methods and devices. What choice YOU make is up to YOU. At least be informed, and not spew false information.

[informationispower]

Age of consent in well, just about everywhere outside the cucked USA is between 14-16. Yeah I've banged a 16 year old and a few 17 year olds when I was in my mid 20s, if that makes me a 'pedo' in your book then go right ahead. I'm 31 now and would 100% opt for a 16-21 year old over a 30 year old woman, no doubt about it whatsoever.

Agree that over 30 is mostly leftovers but common dude... 25-26 for the win

[le0csff]

Once again you ignored the rest of my argument and only responded to part of it. But at least we're making progress here, I had to slow things down for you.

If you choose to do it, then at least be informed. It's called informed consent, and is an incredibly important part of medical care. Understand that external tibias only comes with risks. Let's not downplay the risks. Let's not claim its the safest way to do Limb Lengthening. Let's inform prospective patients about the pros and cons of the different methods and devices. What choice YOU make is up to YOU. At least be informed, and not spew false information.

I never claimed external tibia was safer, you're knocking up a strawman to argue against. I do not owe anyone an exhaustive discussion of risks and benefits, they can put on their big boy pants and decide for themselves.

But the safest option isn't always available as guess what, the safest option is 3x more money! If the options on the table are: get tibias done when you're 21 for $20k, or spend the next 4 years saving up the money to do internals for $60k and finally getting it done at 25, I'd certainly take the $20k option as it means I'd have 4 extra years of being taller in the prime of my life.

Agree that over 30 is mostly leftovers but common dude... 25-26 for the win

I see no way a 25 year old can be reasonably considered better looking than an 18 year old. That's not to say every single 18 year old mogs every single 25 year old before that strawman is pulled out, just that 18 year olds in general are better looking than when they're 25.

[BestOfLuck]

Well I do need to tell you something since you seem to think arguing a point means you MUST be in that particular group that'd be affected. It's not true at all, just requires a bit more perspective than your own back garden.

How many young people (lets say 18-22) have $80k? How many have $50k, even? Not all that many. Hell, not even that many have $20k, but it's a more attainable target than 50 or 80. Saving up for internals over externals involves an opportunity cost i.e. the time spent saving is more time on this earth you're living as a manlet. The kind of jobs one is getting at 18-22 aren't the sort that'll allow you to save a lot of money quickly for the most part, although I'm well aware you're going to come back with a totally unverifiable and irrelevant claim that you did it, just to puff yourself up. I don't care, kiddo.

Externals are obviously a weaker option than internals, but that's really just like saying a Ford is a weaker option than a Ferrari. If you need a car, and you can only afford the Ford, well that's what it'll have to be. No point trying to 'save up' for the Ferrari since that's chasing a future that'll probably never come to pass, and if it does you'll be substantially older and missed out on the main benefits of buying it to begin with.

Yea no. Xrays and before and after photos WILL be posted. And if i have the energy do write a diary i will. Good luck with your LL bucko. We all know youll never be able to afford it you incel  😂

[BestOfLuck]

Age of consent in well, just about everywhere outside the cucked USA is between 14-16. Yeah I've banged a 16 year old and a few 17 year olds when I was in my mid 20s, if that makes me a 'pedo' in your book then go right ahead. I'm 31 now and would 100% opt for a 16-21 year old over a 30 year old woman, no doubt about it whatsoever.

LMAO. Bro admitted to being a straight pedo. Dont ever reply to me again you walking fking pussy😂

[le0csff]

LMAO. Bro admitted to being a straight pedo. Dont ever reply to me again you walking fking pussy😂

K. Enjoy the fantasies.

[BestOfLuck]

K. Enjoy the fantasies.

If i recall you said that having 20k  in the bank isnt broke. Yea maybe if your in your twenties. Your fkn 30 years old and only have 20k saved. Not only are you a failure. But you’re probably the biggest fkn dip  nonce ive met. Bozos tryna get LL done so he can comtinue fkn his 16 year old children😂  i left hs early on to work in self contracting, and even I have more money then you in my bank at 20. If thats not a sign of a failed man idk what is. Your broke, so broke that you would rather consider externals over saving, your a literal pedo who clearly cant get the average women no matter what her age is, and you lack any ability to process information which was stated by not just me, but others on this thread. Stay toasted r-tard

[NailedLegs]

With internals if there is a deep intramedullar infection it could lead even to amputation.
With externals the only way to have a major infection is to not take any antibiotics for many days while you see your pin site swelling and you suffer from pain. That means you have a butcher as a doctor because in ANY other case he would simoly give you some augmentin or similar antibiotics orally for less than a week and you'll be comoletely fine.
 
Serious infections are NOT a risk for externals in general. In internals on the other hand infections might be more rare but there are multiple times more serious.

And there is no reason to not use external fixators for LL, especiallynwhennwe talk about hexapods.
They are fully weight bearing from the first day of your surgery, they can protect you from any malunion, they are way less invasive than any internal nail, they don't need any major surgery to get it out so you only do one big surgery in contrast to internals and it is way cheaper.
The only drawback.is that they are bulky but most patients get.used to them very easy. And they are almost painless compared to internals.
These are the reasons to.use ilizarovs for LL on tibias. And they are way more than the reasons to use internal nails, especially the obsolete mechanical craps that most of LLers use after stryde went off market.

See, now you're just making up bullcrap. Downright false information. I asked you where you are getting this evidence from. What is your source? You have none. There were two sources posted in this very thread talking about infections, one was the interview with Dr. Rozburch and his interview where he talked about infections, and the studies I posted about infections.

Who or what is your source?

I'm starting to think that you're just trolling at this point. Serious infections are not a risk for externals!? Did you even look at the research? Clearly not!

As long as you have an open wound, you are at a constant risk of infection! This is a basic and fundamental piece of wound care! With externals, every pin sight is an open wound! With a nail, once the wound has healed, which takes approximately one week for your skin to heal and close, you are essentially at zero risk of an infection. Sure, maybe if your nail wasn't sterile you could develop one. But now we are just going to go down the never ending rabbit hole of hypotheticals. The nail used for LON would have the same problem, right? The wires for your frames would have the same problem, right? Let's use logic and reasoning.

"There is no reason to not use external fixators for LL"

What the %*@^!?!? Did you not read ANYTHING else posted here?? Now we are getting into fantasy land with talk like this!

>And they are way more than the reasons to use internal nails, especially the obsolete mechanical craps that most of LLers use after stryde went off market.

Huh!? The STRYDE nail and PRECICE nail are incredibly similar, the major difference being the material they're made out of. One allows full weight bearing, the other does not. The only reason it was taken off the market was due to there being some minor rusting in some cases. And while nothing serious occured because of it, Nuvasive did a voluntary recall. VOLUNTARY RECALL. Besides that, the internal Lengthening mechanism is the same. The PRECICE nail isn't "obsolete mechanical crap", external fixators are!

Who or what is your source? This is a simple question with a simple answer. We all know why you refuse to answer it. It's because you have no proof, no evidence, no sources, you have nothing to backup your argument. Show me the studies that say what you're saying. Show me the Doctors that are saying what you're saying.

[le0csff]

If i recall you said that having 20k  in the bank isnt broke. Yea maybe if your in your twenties. Your fkn 30 years old and only have 20k saved. Not only are you a failure. But you’re probably the biggest fkn dip  nonce ive met. Bozos tryna get LL done so he can comtinue fkn his 16 year old children😂  i left hs early on to work in self contracting, and even I have more money then you in my bank at 20. If thats not a sign of a failed man idk what is. Your broke, so broke that you would rather consider externals over saving, your a literal pedo who clearly cant get the average women no matter what her age is, and you lack any ability to process information which was stated by not just me, but others on this thread. Stay toasted r-tard

Seethe more soycuck.

[BestOfLuck]

Seethe more soycuck.

Get that fxggot ass reddit term tf out of my face you
Pathetic manchild. “The legal age of consent is 16🤓” head ass pussy. I make more then you. I own you. Pedo.

[NailedLegs]

I never claimed external tibia was safer, you're knocking up a strawman to argue against. I do not owe anyone an exhaustive discussion of risks and benefits, they can put on their big boy pants and decide for themselves.

But the safest option isn't always available as guess what, the safest option is 3x more money! If the options on the table are: get tibias done when you're 21 for $20k, or spend the next 4 years saving up the money to do internals for $60k and finally getting it done at 25, I'd certainly take the $20k option as it means I'd have 4 extra years of being taller in the prime of my life.

I see no way a 25 year old can be reasonably considered better looking than an 18 year old. That's not to say every single 18 year old mogs every single 25 year old before that strawman is pulled out, just that 18 year olds in general are better looking than when they're 25.

>I never claimed external tibia was safer, you're knocking up a strawman to argue against.

I already clarified to you, I was replying to Body Builder. He claimed that. You should spend less time typing, and more time improving your reading comprehension.

As I said, that's your decision. It's up to you. Understand what you're doing 100%. They're your limbs, risk getting them butchered or not, that's up to you.