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[newLLperson]

Hello,

I'm currently 5ft9 (175cm) with a wingspan of about the same length. 30 years old with no history of injuries or broken bones. I have naturally strong legs and bones. I want to add about 3 inches (7.6cm) to my height.

Is this doable in a single operation?
How long would it take me to go back to normal life? (Walking, maybe running slowly, weight lifting without putting legs under load)
What would be the best method for me?

Thanks!

More info:

I think I'm considering lengthening my tibias only, and most posts say 5-6cm would be the safe limit for tibias. Then there are posts saying 15-20% of tibia length would be the safe limit. My tibias are 15-15.5 inch long so 15-20% would be 2.25-3 inches or 5.7-7.6cm. Are these figures realistic for my height and age and the fact that I wanna do only tibias? I'd love pushing 7-7.5cm (staying below 20%) but I feel aiming for 5 or 6 cm would be more realistic and safer. What would you recommend?

[SpeedDialer]

Hello,

I'm currently 5ft9 (175cm) with a wingspan of about the same length. 30 years old with no history of injuries or broken bones. I have naturally strong legs and bones. I want to add about 3 inches (7.6cm) to my height.

Is this doable in a single operation?
How long would it take me to go back to normal life? (Walking, maybe running slowly, weight lifting without putting legs under load)
What would be the best method for me?

Thanks!

More info:

I think I'm considering lengthening my tibias only, and most posts say 5-6cm would be the safe limit for tibias. Then there are posts saying 15-20% of tibia length would be the safe limit. My tibias are 15-15.5 inch long so 15-20% would be 2.25-3 inches or 5.7-7.6cm. Are these figures realistic for my height and age and the fact that I wanna do only tibias? I'd love pushing 7-7.5cm (staying below 20%) but I feel aiming for 5 or 6 cm would be more realistic and safer. What would you recommend?

Yes 3 inches femurs is doable in a single operation, 7.6 cm femurs is probably a good idea. See some recent posts on people who did 8cm and problems they ran into/wishing they did less, but also plenty of people can handle 8 cm just fine.

If you use a weight bearing nail like betzbone or gnail, some doctors estimate about 6 months to walk normally, and that seems correct so far in my experience with gnail. Some people recover faster. Maybe other people can chime in for how long it takes to get back to running/more vigorous activities? See Erkan's diary http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=65955.186 though

I recommend betzbone 2.0 (it is weight bearing like gnail, meaning you will be able to use crutches relatively quickly in the weeks after surgery) with Dr. Becker in Germany. He does IT band release, he is more conservative than his predecessor (betz).

- Clicking is most likely easier for betzbone 2.0 than other clicking nails (less length per click)

- Dr. Becker's city in Germany is nicer than other options like Athens

- Becker also has access to a weight bearing tibia nail if you want to tibias some day (ex: 5'9->6 feet -> 6 foot 2). Being able to bear weight and use crutches early is very nice, especially for tibias. See diaries for people who did precise tibias and spent alot of time in a wheelchair.

Since you'll get to 6 foot 2 on tibias with 7.6 cm femur + 5cm tibia anyway, I sort of agree with you that 5 cm tibias is safer than 6+ tibias.

See if you can find Dr. Paley's youtube interview for why he only does 5 cm on tibias now in one shot (he said if it gets to the point it gets too tight and you need to do a surgical release for the lower legs, he has found that in that situation sometimes people do not get their liftoff strength back to walk normally)

If you are very wealthy, you might also want to consider Dr. Paley with precise 2.2 (but you will be in a wheelchair for much longer). But his Paley Institute has a good safety record and it would avoid clicking pain.

[SpeedDialer]

Hello,

I'm currently 5ft9 (175cm) with a wingspan of about the same length. 30 years old with no history of injuries or broken bones. I have naturally strong legs and bones. I want to add about 3 inches (7.6cm) to my height.

Is this doable in a single operation?
How long would it take me to go back to normal life? (Walking, maybe running slowly, weight lifting without putting legs under load)
What would be the best method for me?

Thanks!

More info:

I think I'm considering lengthening my tibias only, and most posts say 5-6cm would be the safe limit for tibias. Then there are posts saying 15-20% of tibia length would be the safe limit. My tibias are 15-15.5 inch long so 15-20% would be 2.25-3 inches or 5.7-7.6cm. Are these figures realistic for my height and age and the fact that I wanna do only tibias? I'd love pushing 7-7.5cm (staying below 20%) but I feel aiming for 5 or 6 cm would be more realistic and safer. What would you recommend?

Hi sorry, I misread your post. Please ignore my original response. Sorry about that.

[newLLperson]

Hi sorry, I misread your post. Please ignore my original response. Sorry about that.

No worries and thanks a lot for the detailed info! I've decided I'll only lengthen my tibias and although I'd love 6 or 7 cms, it seems stopping at 5cm is the safe option.

Fast recovery is my top priority and I'll compromise potential height gain for it (I'll do only tibias and only 5cm). So GNail/Betzbone looks like the right method for me. But I see Precise is an even more expensive method. What's the real advantage to choosing Precise over GNail/Betzbone?

Also, although I'll read some diaries soon, how much longer is the recovery with non weight bearing nails compared to weight bearing nails on average?

Thanks

[SpeedDialer]

No worries and thanks a lot for the detailed info! I've decided I'll only lengthen my tibias and although I'd love 6 or 7 cms, it seems stopping at 5cm is the safe option.

Fast recovery is my top priority and I'll compromise potential height gain for it (I'll do only tibias and only 5cm). So GNail/Betzbone looks like the right method for me. But I see Precise is an even more expensive method. What's the real advantage to choosing Precise over GNail/Betzbone?

Also, although I'll read some diaries soon, how much longer is the recovery with non weight bearing nails compared to weight bearing nails on average?

Thanks

TLDR: If I were you and if I was hellbent on only doing tibias, I'd do 5-6cm weight bearing clicking tibias with either Becker or Jean-Marc Guichet


Also sorry about my confusing message earlier-- Precise is actually less expensive than gnail/betzbone. Ex: there are patients here in Athens now who did precise and they paid less than what I paid for gnail. It is actually the USA and Paley that are expensive

The issue with Paley / USA doctors is that 1) they don't have access to gnail/betzbone 2) so they use precise 3) USA doctors are expensive, though I heard Dr. Assayag and Mahoubian are less expensive than Paley

So basically it's like:

USA is most expensive (because in the USA healthcare is often expensive in general) and they use precise

France / Germany / Milan italy/ London are also expensive but they have access to gnail/betzbone depending on the doctor and they also have access to precise. Gnail/Betzbone are somewhat more expensive than precise but gnail/betzbone have weight bearing (so you can use crutches much earlier)

Greece is less expensive than the options above but the city of Athens, Greece itself is not wheelchair friendly. Greece has gnail and precise

India with Dr. Parihar is possibly worth considering for people on a budget or are familiar with living in India, he uses precise

Precise has this advantage: no clicking pain, ability to reverse lengthening if something goes wrong. However, I did significantly less than 8cm femurs anyway so I did not care about reversing lengthening because I felt I would not get into this kind of trouble

For weight bearing vs non weigh bearing nails, here are some datapoints I know from Athens:

- I know of two patients who did femur surgery at the same time, but one did precise and one did gnail. At the 5 month mark, the gnail patient can almost walk normally. The other guy who did precise is still on wheelchair at 5 months

- However, this is not always the case! Another datapoint: a girl who was very lightweight who did precise femur and also walk almost normally at the 5 month mark. A very nice recovery, though she only did 4 cm

- Another example: a very very slim guy 5'9 starting height who was like 120 pounds or less who did the 4 precise nail option and was able somehow to use crutches at 4 months, very fast recovery compared to some other patients who had 4 nails in them



Buuuuuut. I will say this. If you know that you will only do tibias, then I highly highly recommend you go with Becker in Germany or Jean-Marc Guichet (france, london, Milan).

Why?

Becker and Jean-Marc Guichet both have weight bearing tibia nails. Your experience will be alot more comfortable if you can use crutches earlier for tibias (you can put your entire body weight on your lower legs to stretch them, this makes training easier just physically). I think it is reasonable to go for 6cm and maybe some people even slightly more with this method, it is easier to stretch the calves if you can stand up.

Although they are more expensive than the option in Greece, it will be much easier for you to continue working if you are not stuck in a wheelchair --- so you can make more money to offset the cost. I still personally would not go above 5cm tibias because Paley would not allow his patients to go above 5 cm tibias even when the weight bearing STRYDE was available in the USA ---but I admit it is completely debatable and I could be wrong.

I think most likely you will end up fine with 6cm tibias with a weight bearing tibia option and it is true that there are plenty of people who do a bit more and end up OK. Not guaranteed to be OK (see some older posts of people who did 7.5 cm+ tibias and they wish they did less) but it is true that there are some people who did 7cm+ tibias and ended up OK.

[newLLperson]

Oh sorry, Precise is actually less expensive than gnail/betzbone. Ex: there are patients here in Athens now who did precise and they paid less than what I paid for gnail

The issue with Paley / USA doctors is that 1) they don't have access to gnail/betzbone 2) so they use precise 3) The issue with USA doctors is that they are expensive, though I heard Dr. Assayag and Mahoubian are less than Paley

So basically it's like:

USA is most expensive (because in the USA healthcare is often expensive in general) and they use precise

France / Germany / Milan italy/ London are also expensive but they have access to gnail/betzbone depending on the doctor and they also have access to precise. Gnail/Betzbone are somewhat more expensive than precise but gnail/betzbone have weight bearing (so you can use crutches much earlier)

Greece is less expensive than the options above but the city itself is not wheelchair friendly. Greece has gnail and precise

India with Dr. Parihar is possibly worth considering for people on a budget or are familiar with living in India, he uses precise

Precise has this advantage: no clicking pain, ability to reverse lengthening if something goes wrong. However, I did significantly less than 8cm femurs anyway so I did not care about reversing lengthening because I felt I would not get into this kind of trouble

For weight bearing vs non weigh bearing nails, here are some datapoints I know from Athens:

- I know of two patients who did femur surgery at the same time, but one did precise and one did gnail. At the 5 month mark, the gnail patient can almost walk normally. The other guy who did precise is still on wheelchair at 5 months

- However, this is not always the case! Another datapoint: a girl who was very lightweight who did precise femur and also walk almost normally at the 5 month mark

- Another example: a very very slim guy 5'9 starting height who was like 120 pounds or less who did the 4 precise nail option and was able somehow to use crutches at 4 months, very fast recovery compared to some other patients



Buuuuuut. I will say this. If you know that you will only do tibias, then I highly highly recommend you go with Becker in Germany or Jean-Marc Guichet (france, london, Milan).

Why?

Becker and Jean-Marc Guichet both have weight bearing tibia nails. Your experience will be alot more comfortable if you can use crutches earlier for tibais (you can put your entire body weight on your lower legs to stretch them, this makes training alot easier). I think it is reasonable to go for 6cm and maybe some people even slightly more with this method, it is easier to stretch the calves if you can stand up. Although they are more expensive than the option in Greece, it will be much easier for you to continue working if you are not stuck in a wheelchair so you can make more money to offset the cost. I still personally would not go above 5cm tibias because Paley would not allow his patients to go above 5 cm tibias even when the weight bearing STRYDE was available in the USA. However, I think most likely you will end up fine with 6cm tibias with a weight bearing option and it is true that there are plenty of people who do a bit more and end up OK. Not guaranteed to be OK (see some older posts of people who did 7cm+ tibias and wish they did less) but it does happen pretty often. 

Can't thank you enough for all the info, you're helping a lot.

I am certain that I'll only do tibias because my tibias are already very short and lengthening my femurs would make me look very unnatural. In fact, I think why I'm even considering this surgery is because of my tibias. They look like they should've been an inch longer, putting me at 5ft10 and I'd never consider LL   

I'm 5ft9 and weigh 162 pounds so if I choose Precise, I guess I'm looking at a longer wheelchair time. Considering my weight and that I wanna go back to normal life in 6 months after surgery, I guess I definitely need a weight bearing tibia nail.

Are there any reputable surgeons in Turkey who have access to weight bearing tibia nails?

[SpeedDialer]

Are there any reputable surgeons in Turkey who have access to weight bearing tibia nails?

Not for internal tibia nails with no frames

[newLLperson]

Not for internal tibia nails with no frames

I see. Any reputable surgeons doing external tibia in Turkey that the forum recommends?

[sixfootandhalf]

I see. Any reputable surgeons doing external tibia in Turkey that the forum recommends?

 

Personally, i would avoid Turkey.  I would go with Becker.

You want someone safe, you don't want osteomyelitis or nonunion or malunion. You want a country as regulated as Germany.

This is one of those surgeries where paying the extra 20k / working extra hours / weekends / nights and waiting 6 months more is worth it.

[newLLperson]

 

Personally, i would avoid Turkey.  I would go with Becker.

You want someone safe, you don't want osteomyelitis or nonunion or malunion. You want a country as regulated as Germany.

This is one of those surgeries where paying the extra 20k / working extra hours / weekends / nights and waiting 6 months more is worth it.

Just replied to your Captain America thread and we're so much alike both in height and in goals and mentality. Would you be able to tell me (in DM if you prefer) what would be the total cost with Dr Becker?

Let's keep in touch. Thanks

[SpeedDialer]

 

Personally, i would avoid Turkey.  I would go with Becker.

You want someone safe, you don't want osteomyelitis or nonunion or malunion. You want a country as regulated as Germany.

This is one of those surgeries where paying the extra 20k / working extra hours / weekends / nights and waiting 6 months more is worth it.

100%

[sixfootandhalf]

This is an excellent Tibia lengthening blog from a Betz/Becker patient:

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=73542.0

[SpeedDialer]

Just replied to your Captain America thread and we're so much alike both in height and in goals and mentality. Would you be able to tell me (in DM if you prefer) what would be the total cost with Dr Becker?

Let's keep in touch. Thanks

Wonder if I'm wrong in estimating 80-90k Euros? When factoring in living costs, emergency money for complications, money to get you back on your feet (figuratively) afterwards, etc. Maybe someone else can chime in? If you lengthen less, it will also take less time and have decreased risk for complications which might help