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[short but sweet]

I have been going through the diaries of both betz/G-nail and stryde patients recently

One thing I have noticed is that the latter(My evolution , programmerdude,movie) were able to start walking normally(barring running,jumping,or sports) much faster than betz patients (leonazul99 , taller90 , stand taller) and G-nail (Ozboy)

why is this so , since betz bone/G-nail claims to be weight bearing as well ?

I know the betz boys/G-nail guy lengthened > 8cm , so will require a longer consolidation, but they weren't able to walk properly even at 8cm

By walking properly , I mean walking without crutches for extended periods of time

[RealLostSoul]

You won‘t walk extended periods of time normally with a broken femur bone. If this would be the case than nonunion wouldn‘t even really matter. Just bias in reporting obviously. Walking recovery is the same with any weightbearing nail and of course if you overlengthen it then you need much much longer than if you quit early.

[short but sweet]

You won‘t walk extended periods of time normally with a broken femur bone. If this would be the case than nonunion wouldn‘t even really matter. Just bias in reporting obviously. Walking recovery is the same with any weightbearing nail and of course if you overlengthen it then you need much much longer than if you quit early.

but if you go through my evolution's diary , in the videos he posted , he was walking without crutches from post op day 5

whereas stand taller couldn't walk outside his home without crutches at 8cms,and still needed them almost 6 months after he stopped lengthening

body builder mentioned that clicking nails are more traumatic than magnetic ones , maybe that's the reason ?

[lessthanavg8300]

I dont know why one would be more traumatic than the other.  Betzbone is def more of a pain in the ass (clicking) but they both lengthen your legs at the same rate.

[short but sweet]

I dont know why one would be more traumatic than the other.  Betzbone is def more of a pain in the ass (clicking) but they both lengthen your legs at the same rate.

that's what I think as well , but the diaries beg to differ
I was a die hard stryde supporter , till I found out betzbone could go upto 12cms , so leaning towards betz rn
but the longer time of using crutches is bugging me

[lessthanavg8300]

idk if you can run with that.  Its only 6 people total and they probably did different lengths and other factors.  Betz also didnt do a soft IT band release at the time.

Im not shutting your idea down Im just skeptical.  The surgical technique is the best I can think of.  Idk why the nail design would matter, they both do basically the same thing.  Hold your weight and extend.

[lessthanavg8300]

I didnt spend much time compiling but didnt this guy have a pretty good outcome...just 1 that I found: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=66296.msg204966#msg204966

So I think he did 3 inches and it took him 6.5 months for his gait to be 90-95% normal according to his journal.

[lessthanavg8300]

I just read Taller90's journal (that you mentioned)....he said hes almost completely back to normal and that took him 8 months.  He did 11CM.  So that a pretty good outcome.

[RealLostSoul]

but if you go through my evolution's diary , in the videos he posted , he was walking without crutches from post op day 5

whereas stand taller couldn't walk outside his home without crutches at 8cms,and still needed them almost 6 months after he stopped lengthening

body builder mentioned that clicking nails are more traumatic than magnetic ones , maybe that's the reason ?

Exactly what I mentioned: diary bias.
I could also walk without crutches on day 5. That doesn’t mean it was normal walking for extended periods of time. It also doesn’t mean you should walk without crutches in the public for safety reason. Just bc you saw a short video of someone doesn’t mean that’s what it is about.

 It might play a a small part in some aspects but the main looming thing is that you have broken femurs and soft tissue that’s very much under severe stress and tightness. You are not walking normal during LL. Period. No matter what device or doctor. You can have some form of acceptable mobility but it will never be normal. Because normal means you are walking well without restrictions. And being able to walk a few hundred metres without crutches doesn’t mean you walk normal.

Also standtaller did too little stretching and lengthened a great amount that resulted in huge duckass. Duckass will fck your walk up real bad. Much more than wide legs.

[RealLostSoul]

that's what I think as well , but the diaries beg to differ
I was a die hard stryde supporter , till I found out betzbone could go upto 12cms , so leaning towards betz rn
but the longer time of using crutches is bugging me

There is no longer time on crutches. Just more lengthening amounts that result in longer recovery. If you do about 8cm max I think you can calculate 6 months to be 95% normal again (except from sports).

[Taller90]

Exactly what I mentioned: diary bias.
I could also walk without crutches on day 5. That doesn’t mean it was normal walking for extended periods of time. It also doesn’t mean you should walk without crutches in the public for safety reason. Just bc you saw a short video of someone doesn’t mean that’s what it is about.

 It might play a a small part in some aspects but the main looming thing is that you have broken femurs and soft tissue that’s very much under severe stress and tightness. You are not walking normal during LL. Period. No matter what device or doctor. You can have some form of acceptable mobility but it will never be normal. Because normal means you are walking well without restrictions. And being able to walk a few hundred metres without crutches doesn’t mean you walk normal.

Also standtaller did too little stretching and lengthened a great amount that resulted in huge duckass. Duckass will fk your walk up real bad. Much more than wide legs.

Fully agree. You Will be able to walk withouten crutches a couple of weeks after the surgery as soon as your trauma/swelling from the surgery are gone. However, due to safety reason you should not do it for longer distances. I also have videos where I was walking in week 2 or 3 at home without crutches….

[OzBoy39]

Confirm with both of you above. I could do steps even after a week from surgery.
And that’s why I then I didn’t follow the doctor’s advice and ended up with a torn quad muscle.
Play it safe out there y’all weight bearers.

Plus 2 other people with Gnail that I’ve met have been walking normally at 3.5months from op. They were basically walking normally unaided during the last phase of lengthening too.

I would love though to see some study in relation to the twisting motion of your legs to execute the clicking and how that impacts (if at all) bone regeneration.

And at the same time a study on the consequences (or potential consequences) of rusted metal debris being released into the blood stream from Stryde nails.

[LIVELIFETHEWAYIWANT]

NO 1 reason is weight bearing nails have slower bone regeneration

 

[short but sweet]

NO 1 reason is weight bearing nails have slower bone regeneration

this is completely opposite to what we know so far that weight bearing nails hasten recovery

so the consensus is that betz/g-nail pts can also start walking without crutches for short distances and periods of time very soon after suegery BUT don't do so to avoid injury ( due to the doctor's recommendation ?)

thanks guys

[RealLostSoul]

this is completely opposite to what we know so far that weight bearing nails hasten recovery

so the consensus is that betz/g-nail pts can also start walking without crutches for short distances and periods of time very soon after suegery BUT don't do so to avoid injury ( due to the doctor's recommendation ?)

thanks guys

The guy above you is spreading total nonsense. He thinks bc he saw a video about bone remodelling that you should be walking on early callous formation.

About the question, I will say this, imagine slipping and falling over (very easily possible in the beginning if you aren’t cautious) and landing on a bad spot. Can knock the screws out of it’s place needing another surgery. Who wants that? After 2 months the screws will be fused with your bone (you see on xray that callous builds up around the screws and while your bone still isn’t fused because you lengthen it, the screw points are) so by then that risk is lower and also you have more a lot more stability by then.

[short but sweet]

About the question, I will say this, imagine slipping and falling over (very easily possible in the beginning if you aren’t cautious) and landing on a bad spot. Can knock the screws out of it’s place needing another surgery. Who wants that? After 2 months the screws will be fused with your bone (you see on xray that callous builds up around the screws and while your bone still isn’t fused because you lengthen it, the screw points are) so by then that risk is lower and also you have more a lot more stability by then.

yeah that's true , but won't the bone heal faster the sooner we start putting weight on it ?
stryde pts can recover faster cuz they start walking without crutches sooner than betz/g-nail pts , right ?

[RealLostSoul]

yeah that's true , but won't the bone heal faster the sooner we start putting weight on it ?
stryde pts can recover faster cuz they start walking without crutches sooner than betz/g-nail pts , right ?

No you recover faster because you don’t atrophy as much. If you sit in a wheelchair for months you can‘t just stand up and be like nothing happens. You need to wait for consolidation and then have a painfully long time to build up functional muscles again. With weightbearing you also atrophy extremely but you retain so much that you start recovering already during lengthening.
Stryde doesn‘t walk sooner without crutches that‘s simply not true. And why does it even matter you can‘t do stryde anymore. It will not return. Why you insist on it so much if it won‘t even be an option anymore.

[Hagane]

No you recover faster because you don’t atrophy as much. If you sit in a wheelchair for months you can‘t just stand up and be like nothing happens. You need to wait for consolidation and then have a painfully long time to build up functional muscles again. With weightbearing you also atrophy extremely but you retain so much that you start recovering already during lengthening.
Stryde doesn‘t walk sooner without crutches that‘s simply not true. And why does it even matter you can‘t do stryde anymore. It will not return. Why you insist on it so much if it won‘t even be an option anymore.

actually short but sweet is correct bearing does infact help healing

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK551573/#:~:text=Weight%2Dbearing%20is%20essential%20for,over%20non%2Dweight%20bearing%20exercises.

http://actaorthopaedica.be/assets/1505/01-Ulstrup.pdf
^ if you read the last section BONE HEALING IN THE CLINICAL SETTING

[RealLostSoul]

actually short but sweet is correct bearing does infact help healing

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK551573/#:~:text=Weight%2Dbearing%20is%20essential%20for,over%20non%2Dweight%20bearing%20exercises.

http://actaorthopaedica.be/assets/1505/01-Ulstrup.pdf
^ if you read the last section BONE HEALING IN THE CLINICAL SETTING

Wtf??? In the post you quoted I literally explained why weightbearing is so much better for recovery. Can you read the discussion first before you pull up with studies please? But thanks anyways, with it you are underlining my point .

To clarify: In the first paragraph I say why any weightbearing nail is better for recovery than a non weightbearing option
In the second paragraph I said that Stryde and Gnail/Betzbone (both weightbearing) have the same time of walking without crutches, and just because he read one or two diaries where people did different lengths, different amounts of stretching etc and he has a feeling Stryde seemed to be smoother (which may be true in some aspects, especially for lengthening method - but at the end of day its gone. It’s not an option anymore) - Doesn‘t mean the walking is directly correlated to the nail, I don‘t see any good reason why under the weightbearing realm it should generally be different.

Also on a site note, reading diaries did not help me much grasping of what will come. I found out how unrealistic most portray the situation for someone who’s never done it.  Some things are heavily overemphasised and some things are heavily underemphasised.

[short but sweet]

where people did different lengths

I know that those who did longer will take more time to recover
but if you compare all of them at 8cm , the stryde pts were better off according to their diaries(or so I thought then)

Now I know that betz and G-nail pts could also walk without crutches a few days after surgery

I know stryde's not coming back , but its replacement will (another WB magnetic nail)
paley and other docs aren't gonna sit back and keep losing prospective patients

[RealLostSoul]

I know that those who did longer will take more time to recover
but if you compare all of them at 8cm , the stryde pts were better off according to their diaries(or so I thought then)

Now I know that betz and G-nail pts could also walk without crutches a few days after surgery

I know stryde's not coming back , but its replacement will (another WB magnetic nail)
paley and other docs aren't gonna sit back and keep losing prospective patients

I am skeptic about that but I am sure they had a smoother time lengthening.

Yea it‘s true but it‘s your choice if you want to wait for years until the new one becomes an option. Me personally couldn’t do this and wouldn’t do this. But if that‘s the case for you I would recommend to get off the forum. Sitting here for many more months won‘t be good for you, trust me I speak from experience. I dwelled on here years before I actually did it and it only made me more depressed tbh

[Hagane]

Wtf??? In the post you quoted I literally explained why weightbearing is so much better for recovery. Can you read the discussion first before you pull up with studies please? But thanks anyways, with it you are underlining my point .

To clarify: In the first paragraph I say why any weightbearing nail is better for recovery than a non weightbearing option
In the second paragraph I said that Stryde and Gnail/Betzbone (both weightbearing) have the same time of walking without crutches, and just because he read one or two diaries where people did different lengths, different amounts of stretching etc and he has a feeling Stryde seemed to be smoother (which may be true in some aspects, especially for lengthening method - but at the end of day its gone. It’s not an option anymore) - Doesn‘t mean the walking is directly correlated to the nail, I don‘t see any good reason why under the weightbearing realm it should generally be different.

Also on a site note, reading diaries did not help me much grasping of what will come. I found out how unrealistic most portray the situation for someone who’s never done it.  Some things are heavily overemphasised and some things are heavily underemphasised.

lol my bad
I misinterpreted what you said to the first statement
rereading it i agree with what you said
in my defence i was posting at like 3 am and my reading comprehension was non existend

[SpeedDialer]

deleted post

too afraid of getting sued by Guichet so I deleted it

He's an amazing doctor with an amazing device, my complaints about the gnail device were extremely minor

[poclecrt]

actually short but sweet is correct bearing does infact help healing

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK551573/#:~:text=Weight%2Dbearing%20is%20essential%20for,over%20non%2Dweight%20bearing%20exercises.

http://actaorthopaedica.be/assets/1505/01-Ulstrup.pdf
^ if you read the last section BONE HEALING IN THE CLINICAL SETTING

it helps healing of the callus, not actual mechanical recovery of the soft tissues like what reallostsoul is trying to explain

the advantages of walking early and soon after the first surgery are obvious compared to sitting in a wheelchair for 5 months - full atrophy of everything + mentally its very hard to contemplate how you put yourself in a disabled situation on purpose

[short but sweet]

it helps healing of the callus, not actual mechanical recovery of the soft tissues like what reallostsoul is trying to explain

When I had mentioned faster recovery , I was exclusively talking about speed of bone consolidation

consolidation - how fast the bone heals and returns to its normal load bearing ability
recovery - consolidation + soft tissues going back to normal

the real disasters from LL happen due to poor/inadequate bone consolidation leading to fractures or non unions
the healing of bone is also a positive reinforcement cycle
ability to bear weight - faster bone healing - stronger bone - ability to bear more weight - even more faster consolidation and so on

the more you delay consolidation , the higher the chances of fractures/non union

I was under the wrong impression that stryde patients were able to start walking sooner , for longer distances and for more time (aka being able to put more weight on their bones as fast as possible) compared to betz/G-nail pts , resulting in quicker and safer consolidation

But after perusing through the comments under this thread , I know now that even Betz/G-nail pts can do the same , so time to consolidation will be same for both if same amount is lengthened

[tallmen]

When I had mentioned faster recovery , I was exclusively talking about speed of bone consolidation

consolidation - how fast the bone heals and returns to its normal load bearing ability
recovery - consolidation + soft tissues going back to normal

the real disasters from LL happen due to poor/inadequate bone consolidation leading to fractures or non unions
the healing of bone is also a positive reinforcement cycle
ability to bear weight - faster bone healing - stronger bone - ability to bear more weight - even more faster consolidation and so on

the more you delay consolidation , the higher the chances of fractures/non union

I was under the wrong impression that stryde patients were able to start walking sooner , for longer distances and for more time (aka being able to put more weight on their bones as fast as possible) compared to betz/G-nail pts , resulting in quicker and safer consolidation

But after perusing through the comments under this thread , I know now that even Betz/G-nail pts can do the same , so time to consolidation will be same for both if same amount is lengthened

Precice has faster consolidation then all stainless steel nails though.

[short but sweet]

Precice has faster consolidation then all stainless steel nails though.

why did programdude snap his femur in half then ?
He was a precice 2.2 patient
Also , only stryde was stainless steel , betzbone/G-nail are cobalt chrome

I read your diary , you are just one of those people who have very quick bone regrowth,leading to preconsolidation

going by pure logic , WB nails will always lead to faster consolidation than NWB nails , as per wolff's law

[short but sweet]

double posted so deleted

[SpeedDialer]

deleted

[tallmen]

why did programdude snap his femur in half then ?
He was a precice 2.2 patient
Also , only stryde was stainless steel , betzbone/G-nail are cobalt chrome

I read your diary , you are just one of those people who have very quick bone regrowth,leading to preconsolidation

going by pure logic , WB nails will always lead to faster consolidation than NWB nails , as per wolff's law

No, I am not talking from personal experience I remember paley saying this in one of his interviews that titanium nails have faster bone growth.