Topic: Installing height- Programdude's Precice 2 Internal femurs with Dr. Paley (Read 248244 times)

DoingItForMe · « **Reply #496 on:** October 11, 2015, 02:10:10 AM »

Do you know where in the femur it fractured? Was it below the lengthened portion or at the lengthened portion? I also planned on using Dr. R to remove my rods. Are you not recommending to use him for rod removal now? He seems cheaper than Dr. Paley for rod removal ($7,000 vs $15,000). Was that the exact cost or did insurance help pay for some of it?

programdude · « **Reply #497 on:** October 11, 2015, 03:00:25 AM »

I think you need to be extra careful with him, since even one case like this is very troubling.

Mention that another patient had their leg snap while following his exact protocol when he is giving you clearance etc.

programdude · « **Reply #498 on:** October 11, 2015, 03:01:02 AM »

It was near the top of the lengthening site that fractured

programdude · « **Reply #499 on:** October 11, 2015, 02:06:19 PM »

I just walked across my house to make food and walked back to my room with no crutches. Not comfortable but I have my fingers crossed things will be good once trauma goes down

DoingItForMe · « **Reply #500 on:** October 11, 2015, 05:43:43 PM »

Thanks for the information. Did you hear back from Dr. R or Dr. Paley on what the issue may have been? Were the rods removed too early or what it that you walked/exercised too soon after rod removal? Any tips on how other LLs getting their rods removed can avoid what happened to you?

Good luck with recovery. Once this fracture heals, your bones should be stronger than ever.

programdude · « **Reply #501 on:** October 11, 2015, 09:06:36 PM »

I will need to get more information. I suspect my left leg just wasnt ready.

My advice is if you feel ANY pain to get x rays. What I felt felt like muscle pain, and it went from no pain to snapping really quick, but there are probably cases you could catch a problem with an x ray.

DoingItForMe · « **Reply #502 on:** October 11, 2015, 11:34:29 PM »

Quote from: programdude on October 11, 2015, 09:06:36 PM

I will need to get more information. I suspect my left leg just wasnt ready.

My advice is if you feel ANY pain to get x rays. What I felt felt like muscle pain, and it went from no pain to snapping really quick, but there are probably cases you could catch a problem with an x ray.

Was it a temporary pain or constant pain? The only time I feel muscle pain is when I overstretch my legs on purpose to try to regain flexibility. I was told to never apply force near the ankles when doing knee bends, but to always apply it closer to the knees. That's because the leg acts as a lever when you hold it by the ankles and thus can fracture your legs. When you were doing your left leg stretch, were you holding your leg near the foot?

programdude · « **Reply #503 on:** October 12, 2015, 01:09:17 AM »

I forget the stretch that fractured it.. But thing is, it was really a very light mild stretch regardless.. It really must have been fractured signifigantly from walking for that to have done it in... I am considering contacting the store I was in to try and secure the footage of the incident to indicate this should it be relevant.

The pain was pretty constant.

DoingItForMe · « **Reply #504 on:** October 12, 2015, 05:12:11 AM »

Quote from: programdude on October 12, 2015, 01:09:17 AM

I forget the stretch that fractured it.. But thing is, it was really a very light mild stretch regardless.. It really must have been fractured signifigantly from walking for that to have done it in... I am considering contacting the store I was in to try and secure the footage of the incident to indicate this should it be relevant.

The pain was pretty constant.

Yea, if it's a constant pain, then I doubt that the stretch was the initial cause of the fracture. The constant pain sounds like you had a stress fracture on your bone prior to the stretch. And then the stretch just caused your bone to snap when it was already fractured. Dr. Paley had warned me to immediately contact him if I felt any constant sharp pains in a specific spot on the femur. It usually is a sign of a fracture, because it had happened to a former patient of his. That patient felt a sharp pain in a specific part, right where the bottom of the rod touched the femur. And then after lengthening the internal rod further, it snapped the leg. From my research online, it appears that stress fracture occur when you apply too much stress on the bone, which causes the bone to be reabsorbed into the body, not resting the bone enough to let to rebuild.

programdude · « **Reply #505 on:** October 12, 2015, 09:17:27 AM »

So weird that I got a fracture then... I would walk a lot(for post ll standards) at a time occasionally, but then go a long while with eating/resting PLENTY. And I had done nothing that was particularly strenuous before the pain at all.. It occurred after a 15 minute walk and continued. But again this is long after I had even weight training clearing...

Again my advice is ANYONE experiencing ANY pain no matter how long post op should immediately get an x ray.

Alu · « **Reply #506 on:** November 23, 2015, 03:18:09 AM »

How's everything going dude? Considering it's been awhile since your last update, how'd the healing with your fracture go? Also how's the other leg?

Cheers

programdude · « **Reply #507 on:** November 27, 2015, 05:31:02 PM »

Other leg seems ok, and health wise my left leg is great now.

I still haven't gotten a bill for my surgery though, which I am kind of dreading. The ER visit with 600 after insurance and the ambulance 3700!!!

The financial assault is definitely getting me down, especially since I've had a few other unexpected expenses. Realistically I won't go broke or anything since I have good savings, but I am pretty bummed about everything. Yeah I am thrilled to be taller, but I just keep getting hammered by this decision.

Deads · « **Reply #508 on:** November 27, 2015, 05:35:36 PM »

If you had enough money to play with you should have done the smaller amount over two portions.. I thought being a model and all that you would be anal about your proportions.

DoingItForMe · « **Reply #509 on:** November 27, 2015, 10:52:57 PM »

Yea, hospital bills are killer. Hang in there.

But your ambulance bill sounds too high. With insurance, it should have covered most of it so that you only copay like $100. But even without insurance, the most an ambulance should be charging is about $1000 or so. $3700 sounds like a rip off unless the trip was very very far away like hundreds of miles away, since they charge around $10 per mile.

As for the surgery bill, your insurance should help cover most of it again, and your out-of-pocket expense is whatever deductible your insurance plan is. But if you don't have insurance, then the surgery would cost around $17,000 to $35,000. But hearing that you're getting ripped off for the ambulance, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried charging you $50,000 for the surgery.

theuprising · « **Reply #510 on:** November 27, 2015, 11:02:39 PM »

Quote from: Deads on November 27, 2015, 05:35:36 PM

If you had enough money to play with you should have done the smaller amount over two portions.. I thought being a model and all that you would be anal about your proportions.

I've always been curious about this. I thought the average height for a male model was 6'2 yet Programdude was apparently doing modelling at 5'8?

Is there a different area of modelling for guys who are that height? One of my old flatmates did male modelling was 5'11 and told me he was one of the
shortest guys at his agency. What sort of modelling did you do Programdude?

Deads · « **Reply #511 on:** November 27, 2015, 11:15:29 PM »

Quote from: theuprising on November 27, 2015, 11:02:39 PM

I've always been curious about this. I thought the average height for a male model was 6'2 yet Programdude was apparently doing modelling at 5'8?

Is there a different area of modelling for guys who are that height? One of my old flatmates did male modelling was 5'11 and told me he was one of the
shortest guys at his agency. What sort of modelling did you do Programdude?

I guess a shorter guy could be in a magazine for clothing or something that only required being photographed. Catwalk models are traditionally taller.

Iamready · « **Reply #512 on:** November 28, 2015, 04:09:16 PM »

Who cares guys. Models can come in all sizes. Especially fitness models. Look on Instagram there are tall dudes modeling and short ripped guys with just as much sponsors. Big world out there. It's not just runway modeling.

programdude · « **Reply #513 on:** December 02, 2015, 11:50:20 PM »

About my insurance: It is generally very good. My theory is that perhaps they thought it was something that was non essential or that the hospital gave me the option to transfer myself another way. My insurance paid plenty for my hospital stay in NYC, even my medications for my lengthening procedure- So unless this is the MOST expensive ambulance ever I think there has to be a misunderstanding there... Also I have a max out of pocket expense with my insurance which should protect me.

As for why two surgeries didn't appeal to me: Insane expenses and opportunity costs lost. It would basically be 400k between the costs and time lost. The scarring is already pretty significant with femurs, though not awful. Tibia has even more scars plus they would be all up and down your legs.. its just too much. Also there is very bad complications and takes even more time to heal. Would it be nice to have done conservative amounts and have perfect proportions? Absolutely. But my proportions look normal now that I have some meat on my legs. Other than when I was less muscled in the legs and a girl was attempting a ridiculous position that involved me on my knees and her lower body in the air with her back against the bed- I've never had a comment on the length of my legs.

As far as my aesthetics I can't stress enough I have only had good feedback and am satisfied. I did well with women before but now they are outright reverent of me. Friends and family comment on how tall I am, and respect is significant. It is because of how happy I am with that aspect of things that I am not outright angry and bitter despite how poorly recovery and everything has gone. My journal should be a testament both to the risks of and the benefits of this procedure. They only question in my mind, is knowing what I know now- would I have lengthened slightly less?

Deads · « **Reply #514 on:** December 03, 2015, 10:00:11 AM »

Quote from: programdude on December 02, 2015, 11:50:20 PM

About my insurance: It is generally very good. My theory is that perhaps they thought it was something that was non essential or that the hospital gave me the option to transfer myself another way. My insurance paid plenty for my hospital stay in NYC, even my medications for my lengthening procedure- So unless this is the MOST expensive ambulance ever I think there has to be a misunderstanding there... Also I have a max out of pocket expense with my insurance which should protect me.

As for why two surgeries didn't appeal to me: Insane expenses and opportunity costs lost. It would basically be 400k between the costs and time lost. The scarring is already pretty significant with femurs, though not awful. Tibia has even more scars plus they would be all up and down your legs.. its just too much. Also there is very bad complications and takes even more time to heal. Would it be nice to have done conservative amounts and have perfect proportions? Absolutely. But my proportions look normal now that I have some meat on my legs. Other than when I was less muscled in the legs and a girl was attempting a ridiculous position that involved me on my knees and her lower body in the air with her back against the bed- I've never had a comment on the length of my legs.

As far as my aesthetics I can't stress enough I have only had good feedback and am satisfied. I did well with women before but now they are outright reverent of me. Friends and family comment on how tall I am, and respect is significant. It is because of how happy I am with that aspect of things that I am not outright angry and bitter despite how poorly recovery and everything has gone. My journal should be a testament both to the risks of and the benefits of this procedure. They only question in my mind, is knowing what I know now- would I have lengthened slightly less?

Yeah the costs are significant over 2 surgeries. I'm thinking that going with Dr Alex Monegal will side step the cost issue. Two of his surgeries are not much more than 1 of Paleys.

My health is priceless to me. If I'm going to do a surgery that may jeopardise my health or quality of life, then I'd rather fork out the extra money to ensure I have the quickest and most successful recovery.

Also, if you do two surgeries, each individual surgery will take less time if you are lengthening less on each individual portion.. Less distraction, less tissue stretching and less overall consolidation time.

programdude · « **Reply #515 on:** December 03, 2015, 10:12:34 AM »

You're not wrong. The real cost for me will be my athleticism going with my plan vs. yours. Which within reason is a sacrifice I was and am willing to make. Do I want to get back to running well? Sure. But between the extra money and the scarring I was willing to have a smaller chance of that.

Also given how bad my recovery and experience has been even with Paley, I wouldn't like to think how it would go with someone "lesser".

Not saying your plan is bad. If you are ok with the scarring, confident in your dr., and have the money, you will probably be very happy.

Uppland · « **Reply #516 on:** December 03, 2015, 10:54:18 AM »

Quote from: programdude on December 03, 2015, 10:12:34 AM

You're not wrong. The real cost for me will be my athleticism going with my plan vs. yours. Which within reason is a sacrifice I was and am willing to make. Do I want to get back to running well? Sure. But between the extra money and the scarring I was willing to have a smaller chance of that.

Also given how bad my recovery and experience has been even with Paley, I wouldn't like to think how it would go with someone "lesser".

Not saying your plan is bad. If you are ok with the scarring, confident in your dr., and have the money, you will probably be very happy.

I believe you said that you had the worst recovery out of several patients you knew?

ouroboros · « **Reply #517 on:** December 03, 2015, 02:09:34 PM »

Quote from: programdude on December 02, 2015, 11:50:20 PM

As far as my aesthetics I can't stress enough I have only had good feedback and am satisfied. I did well with women before but now they are outright reverent of me. Friends and family comment on how tall I am, and respect is significant. It is because of how happy I am with that aspect of things that I am not outright angry and bitter despite how poorly recovery and everything has gone. My journal should be a testament both to the risks of and the benefits of this procedure. They only question in my mind, is knowing what I know now- would I have lengthened slightly less?

LL is definitely a life altering experience. Sounds like you gain in some areas while you sacrifice other areas. Your courage is admirable because you took the plunge instead of settling for uncertainty, and "what ifs".

I'm curious on your opinion of lengthening less..... at what point in the lengthening process would you recommend stopping? Do you know of patients at Paley's that lengthened less and got the results you were hoping for?

programdude · « **Reply #518 on:** December 03, 2015, 06:04:36 PM »

Yes, by far of the FEMUR patients I know I did the worst. I know of females doing tibias who did worse in some ways... But my leg snapped on half- hard to beat that lol.

I know that an older patient who did only around 6 CM did significantly better than me. Around that seems to be quite safe on femurs. However its honestly mostly a gamble. I know someone who was slightly shorter than me to begin with and did the same amount to great recovery though. But you need to ask yourself at what point is it not worth all the money and pain? Would 1 inch be worth it? Certainly not. Two? Noticeable, but hardly worth the downpayment on a house, no?

The last thing I would want is for someone to go through this, and still be physically compromised, spend the money, have the scarring, but not be satisfied with the result. Because I wasnt short to begin with, maybe I would have accepted just a little over 2 inches if I knew it would be complication free and my recovery would be expedient and 100%. But I feel I wouldn't be as happy with the height as I am now, which would beg the question if it was all worth it.

Deads · « **Reply #519 on:** December 03, 2015, 09:05:47 PM »

Quote from: programdude on December 03, 2015, 06:04:36 PM

But I feel I wouldn't be as happy with the height as I am now, which would beg the question if it was all worth it.

Well I guess time will tell how your overall recovery is.. And only then will the answer become apparent to you.

programdude · « **Reply #520 on:** December 04, 2015, 03:29:15 AM »

Even with my freshly broken leg I can at least jog mediocrely. Walking endurance I recently found to be excellent as I did a lot of that every day for a few weeks recently, including hikes.

Sports aren't important to me, but running is to an extent so I would like to improve there. If sports are important to you I would strongly consider 2 inches of lengthening at the most based off my experiences. And if they are very important I wouldn't risk this at all.

alps · « **Reply #521 on:** January 08, 2016, 02:16:36 PM »

how are doing programdude?

programdude · « **Reply #522 on:** January 13, 2016, 01:12:39 AM »

I'm doing alright. Still sorting out bills and such from my incident. Walking and mild jogging is alright.

DoingItForMe · « **Reply #523 on:** January 13, 2016, 02:15:04 AM »

Quote from: programdude on January 13, 2016, 01:12:39 AM

I'm doing alright. Still sorting out bills and such from my incident. Walking and mild jogging is alright.

Any pain from surgery left over?

programdude · « **Reply #524 on:** January 13, 2016, 05:46:05 AM »

Not at all when stationary, and not really when walking. Some discomfort when jogging.

DoingItForMe · « **Reply #525 on:** January 13, 2016, 10:41:53 AM »

Quote from: programdude on January 13, 2016, 05:46:05 AM

Not at all when stationary, and not really when walking. Some discomfort when jogging.

Discomfort only on the fractured leg or both?

Thatdude950 · « **Reply #526 on:** March 18, 2016, 06:11:47 AM »

Any improvements?

Limb Lengthening Forum

Author Topic: Installing height- Programdude's Precice 2 Internal femurs with Dr. Paley (Read 248244 times)