Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[SpeedDialer]

I think I have seen various nurses (including those not specifically associated with LL) drop their phones out of their medical scrub pockets like 5 times in three weeks

I don't know how the hospital thinks those thin hospital scrub pockets can hold smartphones given how often nurses have to bend down slightly to do something or help someone. Maybe they should just let them all have fanny packs or something

[SpeedDialer]

Right now hamstring stretches during physical therapy are giving me the most pain right now, like 7 out of 10 pain. Quad stretches during physical therapy giving sometimes similar pain but sometimes a bit less

I actually think though that in the non handicap room, the walls are so close to the bed on both sides maybe I can use the walls to help me stretch hamstrings frequently to deal with this

[SpeedDialer]

Clicking tends to be hard when the thighs are already sore- sounds obvious I know but I mean it

I prefer doing the clicking alone without the nurses now -> because I can take my time and do multiple attempts to do a click and I don't feel any guilt/judgement when I yell or groan in pain

It is usually like the first 2 ish clicks that are potentially painful but after that, they tend to get easier

[thankscience]

What are your current thoughts of about montaza vs novotel? Thinking of doing internal tibias some day, not sure which would be better

If the nurse frequency at montaza is still higher, I'm tempted to do like 3 weeks handicap room at Montaza then the remaining time at Novotel (bigger desk space, probably less noise, save money/time on the commute, much more beautiful and large). I think one internal precise femur patient did something like this. But I'm not sure that is actually a good idea for internal tibias, I don't know how hard/easy the transfers are (wheelchair/bed, wheelchair/toilet etc)

The prices for a room at each hotel change slightly depending on the time of year. But using today's prices I have worked out an approximation:

Montaza
Handicap room (30 days) = 1800 euro
Double for single use (60 days) = 3600 euro
Hotel Tax (1.50 euro per night for 90 days) = 135 euro
Taxi to PT (4 times per week - 20 euro each way(?) for 12 weeks) = 1920 euro
Taxi to Hospital (once per fortnight?) = unsure (please clarify for me)
10% discount for stays longer than 2 weeks = Deduct 540 euro

Total: 6915 euro (excluding taxi to hospital costs)

Novotel
Handicap room single occupancy (Oct (86 euro per night); 30 days) = 2580 euro
Handicap room single occupancy (Nov to Mar (72 euro per night); 60 days) = 4320 euro
*Prices for superior room with double bed and double sofa bed for single use are the same as the handicap room*
Taxi to PT (4 times per week - 8 euro each way(?) for 12 weeks) = 768 euro
Taxi to Hospital (once per fortnight?) = unsure (please clarify for me)

Total: 7668 euro (excluding taxi to hospital costs)

I am not sure if breakfast is included with the Novotel prices above - I'm waiting for Evi to get back to me.

Seems Montaza still comes out cheaper overall, but you may need to factor in other costs like the food menu, trips to hospital, etc. Also, keep in mind they are introducing the new SUV service so the price from each hotel to the PT centre may reduce drastically.

[SpeedDialer]

Taxi to Hospital (once per fortnight?) = unsure (please clarify for me)

I remember that physical therapy center -> doctor's office was like 40 euros and I was miffed (my appointment was after physical therapy, we did take a slight detour to drop off a nurse at Montaza though), but thankfully that only happens once every two weeks.

I have to check my app's history but I have think that it is something like this:

So if I do some very crude estimates, I'm getting like 4*2*20+40/2 = 180 euros as a very rough ballpark per week of taxi fare, but I'm probably forgetting something and it might be a bit more or less. I think leaving montaza early is a potential strategy depending on the time of your physical therapy to avoid some traffic, not sure when traffic is the worst
(divide by 2 because see doctor only once every two weeks

Occasionally though you get lucky w/ traffic or w/e and sometimes the taxi is only 17 or 16 euros to physical therapy from montaza

But remember this isn't quite accurate b/c need two hotel -> hospital trips before the surgery so maybe its like 40-50 euros more at the start

However, hopefully commute prices will go down a bit once they arrange the SUV transport or w/e Evi was saying. However, if she said that its prices depends on the distances, then the distance montaza is from the physical therapy center will still matter a bit probably

Sorry I couldn't be of more help, I just have some rough estimates

[SpeedDialer]

The prices for a room at each hotel change slightly depending on the time of year. But using today's prices I have worked out an approximation:

Montaza
Handicap room (30 days) = 1800 euro
Double for single use (60 days) = 3600 euro
Hotel Tax (1.50 euro per night for 90 days) = 135 euro
Taxi to PT (4 times per week - 20 euro each way(?) for 12 weeks) = 1920 euro
Taxi to Hospital (once per fortnight?) = unsure (please clarify for me)
10% discount for stays longer than 2 weeks = Deduct 540 euro

Total: 6915 euro (excluding taxi to hospital costs)

Novotel
Handicap room single occupancy (Oct (86 euro per night); 30 days) = 2580 euro
Handicap room single occupancy (Nov to Mar (72 euro per night); 60 days) = 4320 euro
*Prices for superior room with double bed and double sofa bed for single use are the same as the handicap room*
Taxi to PT (4 times per week - 8 euro each way(?) for 12 weeks) = 768 euro
Taxi to Hospital (once per fortnight?) = unsure (please clarify for me)

Total: 7668 euro (excluding taxi to hospital costs)

I am not sure if breakfast is included with the Novotel prices above - I'm waiting for Evi to get back to me.

Seems Montaza still comes out cheaper overall, but you may need to factor in other costs like the food menu, trips to hospital, etc. Also, keep in mind they are introducing the new SUV service so the price from each hotel to the PT centre may reduce drastically.

I think this is a good analysis. The SUV service might throw off the commute cost calculations, but I gave my best rough estimate in a post just above for the current situation for taxis and montaza.

I think that breakfast comes w/ novotel is my vague memory from ozboy's diary, and I'm under the impression that novotel has a better selection of fruits for breakfast than montaza

Right now, I am in a room in Montaza by luck that seems to be farther from the strip club noise though I still hear the busy road noise (which is usually not that bad just consistent low noise, except when the loud bikers drive by)

Montaza's lunch/dinner seems to have less selection than Novotel but be a bit cheaper by a few euros

I keep going for Montaza's burger meal b/c its only like 6.50 euros but eventually probably I'll get sick of it after too many times

I still think the better desk space at Novotel is good for people who want to game or get work done + the overall nicer atmosphere and space + the easier to mount bicycle in their gym is probably nice. But probably the best thing about novotel is just to avoid the dice roll of whether you end up close to the strip club noise at Montaza/being woken up in the middle of the night. I'll ask Evi later about how frequently the nurses go to Novotel in the first three weeks or so, I'm a bit worried about that the frequency of coming might drop off alot after the first week, though I'm not sure how much it matters for internal tibia patients (whether it matters alot or not much, I don't have a sense of how independent internal tibia patients can become after 1 week)

I'm doing gnail femurs now

[SpeedDialer]

The prices for a room at each hotel change slightly depending on the time of year. But using today's prices I have worked out an approximation:

Montaza
Handicap room (30 days) = 1800 euro
Double for single use (60 days) = 3600 euro
Hotel Tax (1.50 euro per night for 90 days) = 135 euro
Taxi to PT (4 times per week - 20 euro each way(?) for 12 weeks) = 1920 euro
Taxi to Hospital (once per fortnight?) = unsure (please clarify for me)
10% discount for stays longer than 2 weeks = Deduct 540 euro

Total: 6915 euro (excluding taxi to hospital costs)

Novotel
Handicap room single occupancy (Oct (86 euro per night); 30 days) = 2580 euro
Handicap room single occupancy (Nov to Mar (72 euro per night); 60 days) = 4320 euro
*Prices for superior room with double bed and double sofa bed for single use are the same as the handicap room*
Taxi to PT (4 times per week - 8 euro each way(?) for 12 weeks) = 768 euro
Taxi to Hospital (once per fortnight?) = unsure (please clarify for me)

Total: 7668 euro (excluding taxi to hospital costs)

I am not sure if breakfast is included with the Novotel prices above - I'm waiting for Evi to get back to me.

Seems Montaza still comes out cheaper overall, but you may need to factor in other costs like the food menu, trips to hospital, etc. Also, keep in mind they are introducing the new SUV service so the price from each hotel to the PT centre may reduce drastically.

My instinct is that probably you will be alot happier at Novotel, like I'm under the impression Novotel feels like a full, nice hotel and is part of a big chain owned by a bigger French hotel company (accor) + ozboy said it did not have noise problems. Montaza is fine, but it is sort of like them trying to cram all the basics into confined spaces. An exception to that is the montaza handicap room, which has plenty of space because it has three beds. My former handicap room was close to the strip club night noise, which consistently woke me up in the middle of the night, and I'm pretty glad that my current non-handicap room is farther from that noise. My current non-handicap room feels a bit like a college dorm room, everything is crammed and small but all of the essentials are there and I can't complain given the great price I paid. I feel like I can use the non-handicap room in Montaza easily and enjoy its cheaper price because I have gnai--l so it is OK that my wheelchair cannot even get into the bathroom in this tight space

But I sort of think that if I was doing any other method (precise, externals, etc) I would really prefer a handicap room (either montaza handicap room or novotel) with more space and be able to roll the wheelchair into the bathroom if need be

[SpeedDialer]

Ah sorry I misread your post, you were asking about the SUV prices not the current taxi prices my b  -- I'm also in the dark atm and am just waiting to find out

[SpeedDialer]

A note to people thinking of doing externals:

unfortunately, there appears to be a bit of a dice roll that goes like this:

- people do externals to avoid drilling the kneecap (and they get external pin scars as the price)
 
- some people doing externals can handle the pin site pain and can go the full distance with just externals

- But some people (don't know the percentage) cannot tolerate the pin site pain and other things and end up switching to LATN (? wrong name? anyone know?) or internals midway-> ? so I think maybe they just end up drilling the knee cap anyway -> end up with both pin site scars + a drilled in kneecap anyway? Am I misunderstanding? Then you end up with the worst of both worlds, or I missing something?

but when you start, its not clear whether a given person can tolerate externals only the whole duration, so that is what I mean by a diceroll, I don't see how you can predict your response to the pin site pain before starting

Just something to keep in mind, I wonder if anyone has any statistics on this to know the likeliehood of this happening?

[SpeedDialer]

Last night I slept the entire night without being woken up by the nearby strip club noise and I didn't hear it at all. I consider myself lucky. Had some great dreams, didn't have pain in my legs during my dreams, which sometimes happens and causes the dreams to become more nightmarish. I hate being disabled in my dreams

I setup my laptop/keyboard on the small desk at montaza and will try it out for gaming and productivity later

legs still just constantly a bit sore everyday, makes clicking harder than before

At some point my clicking was virtually no pain, but it has gone back to being a bit stressful

Although clicking can be stressful, it is probably worth it so far w/ gnail. I mean plenty of times I go to the bathroom, if I have to pick up an object, I temporarily will only be supported by my two legs and one arm on the walker. Is it a problem? I don't think so b/c its weight bearing, I still feel safe.

Probably right now I hate the time damaged/slanted pavement near montaza and the physical therapy center. Look down when you walk, don't be afraid to take a step back to safety if the walker seems wobbly on unstable/not level ground

[SpeedDialer]

So maybe people who haven't come yet might be wondering the nurses we keep talking about sometimes by name

There are two nurses who work very closely with Dr. Giotikas, they often come to visit the newer patients especially to help them take are of themselves and teach them how to become independent

When new patients come, they shift their attention alot to the new patients so it is really important to try to become independent as soon as you can ->  practice the bed to walker transfer, its safe, worst thing happens is you fall on the bed. One time a nurse had to deal w/ an emergency or something w/ a new patient so myself + another patient had to scramble at the last moment to get to the taxi ourselves with just the hotel staff aid, which turned out to be OK. Just be ready for that after like 1-2 weeks to rely more on yourself + the hotel staff

I do think that the bed -> wheelchair and then wheelchair -> toilet transfers are much much easier than walker transfers for going to the bathroom---but not ideal in the long term (better to practice walking with walker if you are able to). If you are using the wheelchair to transfer to the toilet, it might be easier to remove the toilet seat raiser device if you bought one since it is hard to go from a lower wheelchair elevation to a higher extra raised toilet seat. But if you are on a walker, then an extra raised toilet seat is awesome

There is a male nurse. On very rare occasions he smokes outside when we're outside waiting for a taxi, but its not a problem at all, just move the wheelchair a bit away if the smoke is an issue. He's strong, and has helped me move my stuff lots of times, I appreciate it, I apologize for not planning better and I apologize for bringing too much heavy stuff.

There's also the female nurse who is temporarily seemingly working alot double time and covering for both the administrative assistant (Dora) + doing her normal duties as a nurse. She knows alot of languages (English, Greek, Spanish at least) , puts people at ease, and I can see why Dr. Giotikas hired her

To my ears, Greek when spoken with a deep voice sounds calmly badass/manly. And when in a higher pitched voice, Greek can have a certain crack/pop sounds to it w/ the consonants (ex: parakalo). People are nice and its a good experience, but on the phone I would simplify your English and words (just focus on the main noun and main verb, don't add too many connecting words or you'll just end up confusing someone)

[SpeedDialer]

If a Greek person tells you to put "spirit" on a cut (not related to leg lengthening), I think they mean "alcohol"? Maybe the Greek word for alcohol can translate into alcohol or spirits?

[SpeedDialer]

Warning: the entrance to the shower section of the bathroom in the non-handicap Montaza room is too narrow to fit in a walker. Tried putting the shower chair straddling the shower section and outside but I couldn't sit on it stably from a walker.

 My current solution is to just sit on the toilet and use the hand wash faucet's water to wash my hair by reaching my arms over, but I wonder if there are better solutions?

Any better ideas?

[thankscience]

Are you allowed to shower without a walker yet? I probably would stay in the handicap room until then...I guess it would be too slippery to use crutches in the shower

[SpeedDialer]

Are you allowed to shower without a walker yet? I probably would stay in the handicap room until then...I guess it would be too slippery to use crutches in the shower

I am only allowed to shower using the walker, and the nurse was trying to help me work out the optimal way to enter and exit the shower in the non-handicap room. However, because the entrance of the shower portion of the bathroom is too narrow for the walker, that is one problem. Another problem is that once inside the shower portion, there is not enough space to actually turn/rotate the walker. In fact it feels like the walker cannot fully expand (by maybe about a cm or so) once inside the shower if you are facing the nozzle. And then finally when you try to exit the shower, its, like before when you tried to enter, still not wide enough to pull it out without folding the walker.

I don't think I will be able to shower without a walker for a long time given that I can't walk unassisted. I think you're right that the crutches would be dangerous inside the shower

I use gnail, I think it should most likely be OK to do the walker folds while standing up but I am going to double check with the nurse later the safest way to do this. I don't feel safe doing this on my own without a nurse for now, need some practice to do this logically

This all makes me wonder if I would even be willing to do the above if I had precise given my heavy weight of 170 pounds and the fact that precise is not weight bearing and I don't think it can support 170 pounds

I am pretty thankful I am using gnail, but I also wish I had been more successful in trying to lose weight, this whole thing would be way easier at my freshman year weight of 130 pounds

I think if you either use a montaza handicap room or use novotel, you can just avoid all the above problems. My instinct is that most people would be happier at novotel, not sure. I think that novotel has more space in the bathroom, not 100% sure but based on the pictures it appears to have more space

the montaza handicap room also has alot of space

[thankscience]

I know it's still early days as you are lengthening but I'm surprised it's much of an issue if you are using the nails that support 95kgs per leg

[SpeedDialer]

shrug

[SpeedDialer]

notes for me next time:

- when get in taxi, duck head extra low/bend over even more forward to avoid head bump into taxi

- maybe try out the greek salad w/o the cheese

- gonna try just constantly having two very small pillows under one tibia in bed so I can start stretching that leg's hamstring whenever I went (just by leaning forward slightly)

- put towel under elbow when use computer at desk

- what are the most common messages to put into google translate to turn to Greek to show someone? "please wait for my friend before you drive the taxi"

- figure out two sets of clothes to rotate for which are being cleaned and which are ready to be worn

- might as well ask for cold water when go to physical therapy center

[SpeedDialer]

At some point are you thinking of doing internal tibias in Athens?

[SpeedDialer]

The walker/wheelchair use seems to be affecting my dreams. I had a dream where arm movements, especially tricep movements, cause me to float / fly in the air

[SpeedDialer]

A nurse helped me to attempt to walk without the walker one time up a very very small set of stairs up to the hotel (he held one of my arms and I used my other arm on a wall)

Its odd, like my legs felt a bit unstable/wobbly but I had the strength to do it in the quads/etc

I can't wait to use the antigravity treadmill at physical therapy (basically uses pressure/inflatable pads or something around your waist to hold your upper body up) and then you can walk on the treadmill as your upper body sort of floats above

I still haven't encountered the "flat ass" syndrome LLers have warned me about, and maybe with my body fat amounts I'll never bump into it ---but I still might experiment with bringing a little cushion to the hospital to use to sit on those hard chairs outside the doctor's office

[SpeedDialer]

I've still been lazy and haven't done any grocery delivery yet. I wonder what would be most useful to get if I ever did?

Er lets see

Fruits that I can't get from the breakfast buffet. Maybe bananas are the easiest since I don't have any kitchen stuff.

Uh what else

Probably soda tbh. I can buy soda from the hotel but its like 3 euros for a small bottle.

An omega 3 fat source? But I keep reading that omega 3 supplements and some high omega 3 foods like flax seeds may mess with something related to blood, I think Dr. Giotikas told me not to get krill oil

I probably should pick some fish dish at the hotel to try at some point

If I did grocery delivery, I would probably want to get alot of stuff that can last a long time so I can just do one big delivery and use it over the course of several weeks. I could fill the hotel cooler with soda I guess.

alright alot of soda
maybe some bananas
what else

I don't see the value of getting protein powder or anything like that, I can just force myself to eat more eggs in the morning it seems, no?

Maybe I should eat less chocolate cake during breakfast, but its the best tasting food they have for breakfast at the hotel

The green apples seem to last a bit longer than the red apples from the hotel (don't seem that fresh), or maybe its just the sour taste masking the mild aging

The nutrition I'm missing from my diet seems to be vegetables, omega 3 fats, and I could probably be eating more protein. I still think I don't feel that motivated to get grocery delivery, I could just try out the greek salad dish later, try out a fish dish later, and force myself to eat more eggs in the morning instead of chocolate cake

[SpeedDialer]

Toying with this idea for stretching hamstrings in a way that doesn't require any arm strength w/ the strap

1. Put wheelchair at edge of bed, but not facing the bed (90 degrees)

2. lock the wheelchair

3. scoot up towards it

4. put leg on the soft wheelchair arm rail that is closer to you

5. bend upper body forward slightly -> hamstring stretch

Not sure if its a good idea, but this would avoid having to use the arm strength

It still requires scooching towards that end of the bed but it seems like it otherwise would be a 'lazy' way to stretch hamstrings easily

Before in the handicap room, I did something similar with a chair but it wasn't as soft. And now I'm using my chair in a different position in the non-handicap room closer to the side table of the bed to hold stuff

The other easiest way seem to be

1. tuck one leg in

2. straighten the other leg, maybe put a pillow under it

3. lean forward -> hamstring stretch

I don't know why they seem to emphasize doing the hamstring stretch with a strap, but probably because at the start your mobility is worse and they are thinking about the situation of being stuck on your back in bed in one spot

[SpeedDialer]

I used to rotate between the hamstring, quad, adductor, and abductor stretches doing them in roughly 1:1:1:1 ratios in terms of time

I don't think that's a great idea anymore -> I'm not having any significant pain from adductor stretches in physical therapy  and the only pain I'm having from abductor stretches is from nerve pain, not the muscle pain

I'm having the most pain in the hamstrings and quads during physical therapy -> so it seems like I should spend most of my stretching time on hamstrings and quads, no? Quads are the easiest muscles to stretch by far from a sitting position, you just sit up and then heel to butt -> quad stretch

hamstrings with the wheelchair idea above are also pretty low effort to start doing and maybe I should just spend more of my time in a position (closer to the edge of the bed where the wheelchair is) where I am only 1 or 2 seconds away from starting a hamstring stretch if I wanted to do one (just lift leg onto the soft arm wheelchair rest -> insta hamstring stretch)

[thankscience]

At some point are you thinking of doing internal tibias in Athens?

Nah. Half a year of being wheelchair bound doesn't appeal to me I also have concerns about potential knee damage from doing tibias

[SpeedDialer]

Note to self:

montaza food

the greek salad that costs 8 euros is mostly cucumber and tomato, the only new vegetables you get from it that you can't already get from breakfast are onions and peppers, and its not that much more. the greek salad is also pretty massive and is hard to finish

the falafel wraps look delicious, at least from what I saw afar, I might want to try one some time

still not that easy to get a large amount of protein for dinner, its mostly carbs for most meals, maybe I've overlooked a dish?

wish they had souvlaki but I can see why they would not invest in the equipment needed for it

another patient is telling me the hotel doesn't allow takeout delivered to the hotel. However, I don't see how they can possibly enforce that if someone just does the delivery to a nearby address and walks over. And they also can't stop grocery delivery, which could include precooked meals so I'm a bit confused

[SpeedDialer]

other notes:

tuck in fingers not using during wheelchair, don't want them to bump into the metal wires of the wheelchair wheel

difficult to force myself to eat more eggs in the morning for protein, the chocolate cake and orange juice are easier to eat because of the sugar

Somehow when I'm in alot of pain, I don't feel like eating the tomatoes or cucumbers at breakfast at all,, not even the apples

hard to deal with temptations to skip a day of clicking "cmon just one day of rest won't hurt" though I wonder if this could cause any problems with premature consolidation later

today was the coldest morning I've been through yet in Athens, usually the past weeks weather was amazing even at 7 am

hoping when the ice packs to the hotel and pedal machine gets setup I will have an easier time

it is psychologically unpleasant to see the flexibility gains you make worked against by the lengthening (I got more flexible but now that muscle will be tighter again because the leg is now longer) \

the stationary bike they give you cannot really fit in the non-handicap montaza hotel room, be warned

dreams are getting strange, probably from the longer dreams resulting from not being woken up by the strip club music is contributing to that

right leg clicking is much harder than the left leg for me. The fact that the big click comes first for the right leg makes it harder I think, but I'm not sure. yelling helps. Clicking was going so well a few weeks ago, but once the whole thigh is sore again, clicking becomes painful again

[thankscience]

I think you should just order whatever food you want and hope for the best 

When do you take x-rays next?

[SpeedDialer]

the montaza hotel chocolate cake, ice cream, and french fries temporarily distract from the pain and seem a bit dangerous for this reason

gonna branch out and try some other dinner dishes aside from the burger I think, I think with enough salt I can overpower the lemon flavoring of the occasional chicken dishes

the pizza I would say is still not worth it, I mean its alot of calories and filling for 6.50 euros but at the end of the day its a bunch of hardish bread with a small amount of tomato sauce and some cheese

I keep forgetting to ask them for the dish of the day on the phone. But often its like "its X traditional Greek dish, it is sort of like pasta w/ red sauce and X and Y and a smallish amount of meat" and I'll be thinking "man I'm in pain, do I go with the cheap burger meal which I know will feel good w/ the fries or do I roll the dice on this more expensive thing I don't know how to spell and am not sure I can find a picture of?"

At the hospital, there were alot of greek dishes I think and somehow I didn't have much luck w/ the various pasta/tomato/cheese dishes, they are sort of lighter and different flavored, maybe different herbs than what I'm used to in the USA with fast food. Kind of like cheese with some sweeter notes and herbs i don'[t recognize and I didn't have much luck w/ it

The falafel wraps look delicious from afar, I should prolly look at the options again. I mean falafel is deep fried, no? I'm not sure how much better it is than french fries. Occasionally the hotel has a lemon flavored piece of chicken with a bunch of rice dish, I wonder when that will come back, I think I won't mind it and it will be a break from this fried stuff.

[SpeedDialer]

I think you should just order whatever food you want and hope for the best 

When do you take x-rays next?

er i think Its Monday? Prolly I should find out, I think its monday every two weeks for me not sure

[SpeedDialer]

Looking at the novotel menu vs montaza hotel menu

novotel seems to have some like expensive higher end options like a 25 Euro salmon meal

but novotel doesn't seem to have like the 6-7 euro meal options that montaza has

novotel looks like it has a greater variety of ice cream options and more fruits and has more french stuff, probably because the french company accor owns novotel

probably my favorite fruit now are the green apples at montaza, something about that sour sugary taste in the skin

I think for the breakfast buffet I can eat like 5-6 eggs until I can't eat anymore, I mean maybe I could eat more if I had less chocolate milk or less orange juice

Although sometimes you'll hear from some of bodybuilders/ weightlifters that you gotta eat protein every X hours or 3 hours or w/e, but I'm skeptical of that. I mean if you eat a big breakfast buffet I have to think it takes a long time for all of that food to digest