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[SpeedDialer]

Today was the best day yet, the walking, clicking, etc all went well

morale is high

the quad stretches during physical therapy are the most painful part of this at the moment

I'm also trying to figure out my stretching routine and try to identify mistakes

Mostly focused on quad, hip flexor, and hamstring stretches still

Which muscles are most related to duck ass? Hip flexors? What stretches do you like for them?

[Charizard]

Today was the best day yet, the walking, clicking, etc all went well

morale is high

the quad stretches during physical therapy are the most painful part of this at the moment

I'm also trying to figure out my stretching routine and try to identify mistakes

Mostly focused on quad, hip flexor, and hamstring stretches still

Which muscles are most related to duck ass? Hip flexors? What stretches do you like for them?

Congratz Speedy 👍🏼💪🏼
It must be glutes for duck ass 😂

[thankscience]

When you were in the hospital did you have a private room or were you sharing with someone?

[SpeedDialer]

When you were in the hospital did you have a private room or were you sharing with someone?

private

[SpeedDialer]

The burger meal for 6.50 euros at montaza hotel is pretty good, has good sauce, tomato, lettuce, and a big plate of fries, its decently filling and tasty for 6.5 euros

the cheese pizza is inexpensive but the time I had it didn't have much tomato sauce and was a bit hard so I think I might stick to burgers the times I want to get a full lunch/dinner for less than 7 euros

But most days, I don't really feel I need that much more to eat after the hotel's breakfast buffet

I haven't lengthened much, don't have any duck ass yet, but am a bit afraid of it after seeing a patient with duck ass. I don't think glutes are really the problem, maybe hip flexors more of the problem

So right now I'm working on some hip flexors stretches off the edge of the bed (butt on edge of bed, back lying down on bed, one leg hanging off, one leg tucked to knee)

During physical therapy, the biggest amount of pain is from quad stretches, followed by hamstrings, then hip flexors that the physical therapist does on me. If I can work on these stretches alot at home, I think I can improve my quality of life alot and have alot less pain each week

For clicking, I've found so far:
- closing my eyes, listening to relaxing music, lean the upper body in the direction the arm goes, try to get close to almost sleeping helps, use some pillows even for the upper body to get comfortable,  just let the gravity of one arm arm push down on your knee do the work for the clicks and just go completely limp, I didn't have any pain today doing clicks this morning

Its not as time efficient as using both arms to simultaneously move the leg to click, I think ozboy39 and veterans do that and their method is alot faster though

[thankscience]

Glad to hear you're getting the hang of clicking (albeit slowly). How many days after surgery did you start clicking?

Also, re the food - have you only been eating hotel food this whole time? 

[SpeedDialer]

Glad to hear you're getting the hang of clicking (albeit slowly). How many days after surgery did you start clicking?

Also, re the food - have you only been eating hotel food this whole time? 

The day after surgery, Dr. Giotikas walked to my bed, and did a few clicks on me and then in the days following, the nurses will do small number of clicks on you teaching you how to do them

I think maybe a few days later we started doing the 15 clicks per day in earnest

The hotel food has the free breakfast buffet + can pay for lunch or dinner. Depending on what you get, it is not expensive and there's enough variety. I've only eaten their hotel food, not sure if I'll branch out. Probably I'm going to keep trying their dishes. There is a small fridge in the room, its on the floor though, a bit hard to reach

Probably my biggest concern is the breakfast buffet only has tomatoes and cucumbers for vegetables. I'll probably see what other veggies they have in the lunch/dinner and then decide if I want to order some other vegetables by grocery delivery

Before the surgery when I could walk, I did eat some food from a local supermarket ("economy supermarket") that is about the size of a 7/11

[thankscience]

Has your appetite returned back to normal yet would you say?

Also, just curious if you chose to stay in the handicap room (with 1 guest) included, the double room, or double for single use?

Still tossing up my options as to what's realistic and best. Also considering Novotel if it ends up being cheaper when taking into consideration travel costs.

[SpeedDialer]

Has your appetite returned back to normal yet would you say?

Also, just curious if you chose to stay in the handicap room (with 1 guest) included, the double room, or double for single use?

Still tossing up my options as to what's realistic and best. Also considering Novotel if it ends up being cheaper when taking into consideration travel costs.

Staying handicap room for two weeks then moving to the single use room w/ the big bed (forgot what its called). Hopefully I don't regret my decision, I still need to figure out best arm placement during toilet transfer and shower transfer in the non-handicap room, which won't have the useful handle on the wall. Gonna try to work out the best technique. I think without the handles on the wall, I'll basically have to push off of the toilet itself or off of the shower chair itself, not sure yet, gonna ask the nurses

Appetite is not normal still, I'm rarely hungry

I still end up eating plenty though-- it would appear that I eat more for recreation/pleasure than out of hunger

Do the nurses ever go to novotel? I am a bit out of the loop

I think it is possibly useful to have slippers that have some grip on the bottom of them, I'm a bit worried about the slippery floor during showering, still working out the best steps in terms of arm placement/order of actions to do it safely

[thankscience]

Staying handicap room for two weeks then moving to the single use room w/ the big bed (forgot what its called). Hopefully I don't regret my decision, I still need to figure out best arm placement during toilet transfer and shower transfer in the non-handicap room, which won't have the useful handle on the wall. Gonna try to work out the best technique. I think without the handles on the wall, I'll basically have to push off of the toilet itself or off of the shower chair itself, not sure yet, gonna ask the nurses

Appetite is not normal still, I'm rarely hungry

I still end up eating plenty though-- it would appear that I eat more for recreation/pleasure than out of hunger

Do the nurses ever go to novotel? I am a bit out of the loop

I think it is possibly useful to have slippers that have some grip on the bottom of them, I'm a bit worried about the slippery floor during showering, still working out the best steps in terms of arm placement/order of actions to do it safely

I think the room you're referring to is the double for single use room. I'll be following your diary very closely to determine whether it's suitable! 

I think they do go to Novotel now because it was one of the options provided.

I'm also waiting to see whether you guys are offered to use the new SUV to transport you to and from the PT centre.

Have you lost much weight since surgery?

[SpeedDialer]

Somehow I totally forgot to ask them to weigh me when I went to the doctor today

I mean I can tell I'm thinner, but maybe by only like 5 pounds? And maybe alot of that is muscle lost

I talked to someone much thinner than me, and he is having a problem where his butt is much thinner than before so sitting on the hard seats outside Dr. Giotikas's office caused him pain. I'm considering bringing a small backpack with a small cushion in it the next time I go in case they don't want me to sit on a wheelchair (at some point they prefer you don't bring wheelchair and just use the crutches it would appear) just in case I have to sit on those hard seats. Evidently he waited like an hour for the appointment because things were really busy

However, I wonder if that will happen to me any time soon, I don't look fat, but I think I'm the heaviest patient here at the moment, I feel like my butt has plenty of fat still, I should still be like 170 pounds I think even after losing some weight

Some days clicking is hardly painful at all and somedays is like a deep pain inside, especially the first click leaves some pain that lingers for like 5 seconds and is maybe a 5 or 6 out of 10 pain. Its usually the evening clicks that are a problem for me so maybe I should do more warmup (pretend leg cycle in the air) + take the tramadol + 2 paracetamol before eating dinner instead of after, not sure

I think the dinner beforehand might be causing the tramadol to take longer to kick in before the evening clicks

[SpeedDialer]

I think the room you're referring to is the double for single use room. I'll be following your diary very closely to determine whether it's suitable! 

One thing I'll say is that the table + the bed side tables are just very very small, a little bit hard to get work done on then

The TV is small enough to pretty much be not worth using, I guess unless you like random TV channels

I'll say that the first week and a half the legs were so swollen for me that it was painful to sit in a chair and I spent most of the time in bed

Handicap bathrooms have room to park your wheelchair right next to them to do a wheelchair->toilet transfer, which is super useful the first week when your legs are weaker

However, the double for single use room bathroom is so small that I don't think you can park the wheelchair side by side with the toilet and would need to transfer using the walker.

There's a small elevated barrier in the single for double room bathroom (not in the handicap room, where the floor is completely flat). This barrier prevents water from the shower from going to other parts of the bathroom. Cannot really get wheelchair into there I think, its a bit tight + that elevated barrier would probably stop the wheels. Also need to get into the shower by walker

Basically before I transfer rooms, I need to make sure I've mastered the walker -> toilet without a side metal rail handle + need to practice taking a shower without any side rails to help me. It should not be hard if I do the steps in the order they told me, but it is something I am slightly worried about screwing up when I'm tired one day

[SpeedDialer]

I'm also waiting to see whether you guys are offered to use the new SUV to transport you to and from the PT centre.

Yeah I am also hopeful for this. The taxi costs are a bit cancer and there's not really a way around it

Today I went from hotel->physical therapy center -> hospital (for doctor's apointment)-> hotel
Three trips, it was like 20, 40, and 20 euros so like 80 euros total in one day

Thank god I split the cost with someone, which I think I was only able to do because I no longer need the wheelchair (I think the taxi can only fit one wheelchair? Actually not sure, probably can squeeze in a second one somehow in the trunk, it folds)

[SpeedDialer]

Note to self: bring warm loose sweatpants if I ever do this again

Tearaway sweat pants might technically be better, not sure it matters too much after a certain level of recovery though

[LIVELIFETHEWAYIWANT]

are you  there by yourself man ?  be strong  !!  I was alone  for 2  month before I  went   home .

[SpeedDialer]

are you  there by yourself man ?  be strong  !!  I was alone  for 2  month before I  went   home .

I'm by myself but am at the Montaza Hotel where the nurses go. Gonna be splitting taxi bills with a patient hopefully

Tonight, clicking was more painful and took longer than usual. Legs were a bit stiff and sore going into the clicking. Which makes me think if I did the bicycle a bit before clicking it would have been better. But I'm still afraid of the transfer to the bicycle, it doesn't look that stable. Wish they had given us an on the floor magnetic pedaler, woulda been safer I think (but it would be a tripping hazard, so idk)

Tempted to buy my own magnetic small pedaler on the floor but I'm hoping I can just do other exercises instead

I think one LLer suggested doing pedaling in the air, I didn't have much luck with that as a warmup before clicking

I think I need to remember that for days when I come to the hotel late (ex: when see the doctor on a Monday every two weeks) I need to remember I'll get back at like 7-8pm so I should probably take the tramadol first thing when I get back instead of eating dinner first. Hoping that will cause the tramadol to kick in faster than eating it after dinner so it will be ready by the time of clicking

Tonight's sleep ---the club music nearby wasn't so bad but my thighs left very stiff and it was uncomfortable for a while until I fell asleep

[thankscience]

How frequently do you have to go to the hospital for check ups? It seems to me that with all the taxi rides it may end up being cheaper/about the same from Novotel.

Thanks for the details about the non handicap room. Have you moved into it yet?

Hope you get some good sleep!

[SpeedDialer]

Out of laziness, I might just answer the questions after they accumulate and then answer in one huge post

The exercise bike at physical therapy- I'd say don't try to adjust it on your own, the seat can slide easily

today it rained and I gotta remember to bring a light jacket just in case the phone gets wet

hospital check up once every two weeks I think? ne1 wanna correct me?

haven't moved into non-handicap room yet but I've seen one before and the smallness means that the exercise bike will be a problem, not much space for it

Not sure about the novotel cost, but I've heard these rumors: I think its 86 Euros per night through some kind of deal the doctor arranged, a bit nicer, bigger, has an exercise bike that is easier to get onto in their gym and closer to the physical therapy center.  And has a pool but evidently has some steps that are a big problematic to go up. The thing is, I think the nurses only go to it when someone specifically needs help, anyone wanna correct me if I'm wrong? Also not sure if their arranged transportation coming up will go to Novotel or not (it should though if its so close to PT..)

Montaza I can't remember I think its like 55 Euros per night at the non handicap room and like 60 for the handicap room? Anyone know?

But if you save like 13 Euros four times per week lemme think

err ok comparing montaza hotel handicap room 61 ish euros per night

I remember there is tax, not sure if it was 1 euro or 1.5 so I just picked some very very rough numbers

61*7 = 427 euros per week at montaza handicap room

56*7 = 392 euros per week () something might be wrong with my calculation or setup

Novotel 86*7=602 euros but then subtract out 4*13 euros for money saved on shorter taxi trip
602 - 4*13 = 550 euros per week

Is my math right? I'm getting novotel is a bit more than 120 USD per week more expensive than the other options, am I mistaken?

The other x factor is the noise at Montaza is worse because of the strip clubs nearby

I'm also considering novotel if I go for internal tibias in a year or so, anyone have any other info to share about novotel and your thoughts? Not sure how the prices compare though and if novotel charges more for handicap room or not, anyone know?

[SpeedDialer]

So now even though my legs don't feel like 1000 pounds, they are just constantly a bit sore (a bit like DOMS) which is making clicking painful and harder and take longer

The quad stretches at physical therapy (where they stretch your legs using their arms/body weight while you lie down) are probably the most excruciating part of this journey, maybe 8 out 10 pain. I really did not expect this, but I wonder if sitting down alot on a bed during the pandemic made this worse than it would have been otherwise, not sure.

At least quads are one of the easiest muscles to self stretch when you're sitting down/on your back

Second behind that is the hamstring stretches which are maybe like 7 out of 10 pain at physical therapy

And then hip flexor stretches are maybe like 5-6 pain max

Oddly enough, IT band and adductor stretches never seem to hurt, but I wonder if that will change after I lengthen more

I think the issue is that like for adductors and hamstrings at some point when they apply more and more force, it moves your whole body instead of stretching more (though they can counteract thi by holding body down). For quads, this doesn't really happen, their body weight just easily overpowers just the flexion at the knee and they can stretch quads quite alot 

I did get an IT band release I think (?) so maybe that is why IT band stretches never hurt (?)

[SpeedDialer]

I think they do go to Novotel now because it was one of the options provided.

Will the hospital arranged transport go to Novotel? I would think it would have to given how close Novotel is to the PT center but I don't know

[SpeedDialer]

I'm under the impression that Dr. Giotikas is very busy, has alot of patients, and he is probably bombarded by questions all the time by email and whatsapp

It feels like he and his team are trying to manage alot of patients, I think three new ones are coming very soon and it should be fun to meet them

[SpeedDialer]

So currently I am toying with this idea to make evening and morning clicks easier:

- Maybe I will take the tramadol and two paracetamol before breakfast (I am not sure, but I think they take longer to kick in if you eat them after a big breakfast, anyone know?)

- then after the painkillers kick in, do the clicks

- then I go to physical therapy

- then I get back to the hotel and take another tramadol and two paracetamols before dinner (for the same reasoning as the above in ())

- then I eat dinner and possibly take a nap from exhaustion

- then legs will be stiff after a nap, need to warm them up + stretch them and maybe take another two paracetamol after, not sure

- then do the second set of clicks after the last two paracetamol kick in

Not sure if I should try this or if this is a good idea or not, just toying with ideas, I don't know if this is the optimal plan, if this is bad idea, or if there are much better plans

We can take up to 6 paracetmol pills and 2 tramadol pills they said, I just don't know the optimal timing of when to take them given that we need to do clicks, stretching, and physical therapy at various times

in terms of pain, the physical therapy is probably the most painful part. However, I've noticed the clicks sometimes can be relatively painless after some tramadol

[SpeedDialer]

How frequently do you have to go to the hospital for check ups? It seems to me that with all the taxi rides it may end up being cheaper/about the same from Novotel.

Thanks for the details about the non handicap room. Have you moved into it yet?

Hope you get some good sleep!

once every two weeks for checkups

taxi rides I'm not sure--- we go to physical therapy like 4 times a week and you save about 13 euros per ride. Oh wait my math was definitely wrong before, so like I forgot to take into account the ride back.

So actually someone will save like 13*4*2 = 104 euros ish per week I think?

So actually the effective cost of montaza vs novotel might be alot closer than people realize

I'm not sure how this will change once the prearranged transportation kicks in though

[thankscience]

How much are you currently spending on food each week?

[SpeedDialer]

How much are you currently spending on food each week?

Oh hm.. maybe like 55 euros per week ish?

[SpeedDialer]

What do you guys think about novotel vs montaza for internal tibia?

It seems like the nurses will always come to help new patients for at least a week

I just don't have a sense for how easy/hard the transfers are for internal tibia to do on your own

For internal femur, I had difficulty with bed -> walker transfers for maybe like 10 days

So I think maybe the question I need to find out is how hard are the various transfers (bed-> walker, walker-> toilet, etc) are for internal tibias and at what point it is easy to do without a nurse coming to help

I haven't met anyone who is doing only internal tibia yet- only people who are doing both. Well I think I met one guy ?matteo? not sure briefly who was about to leave and I didn't ask him before he left Greece

Anyone who is doing internal tibia only have any thoughts on how long it took to be able to do the transfers reliably on their own?

I think maybe the other thing I need to figure out is how long novotel patients get nurse support before they have to only get it by request 

[SpeedDialer]

It seems like there is the option for internal tibia to stay in Montaza's handicap room for X weeks and then move to Novotel (like the girl did) and in my mind the main benefit is escaping the strip club noise and perhaps there is less car street noise at Novotel, not sure. That and maybe the transport costs would be less + get better (but more expensive) food selection at the hotel

But I think she did internal femur so it is not certain it would be the same for internal tibia

I mean it feels like the transfers for internal tibia should be easier than for internal femur, I just wonder how those maybe first two week are for internal tibia patients?

There will be three more patients coming, so maybe hopefully one of them is doing internal tibia and I can ask them

I emailed Novotel and don't completely understand what they are saying:

"The door is accessible also for people using wheelchair and vase basin has specific seize according to the Int. standards for wheelchair accessible rooms
Furthermore the bath floor is flat.

The main room has one double bed and a chair and has space for the people using the wheelchair.

The room rate is available for up to 2 people for superior rooms of 1 double bed.
"

But from the above I think they are saying that even their basic room type "superior" they call it might be OK for wheelchair users

[SpeedDialer]

I'm noticing that when I have pain in the middle of my thighs before sleeping, sometimes I continue to feel that pain in my dreams

And in my dreams when I have that pain, I am often more disabled than I am in real life, feeling extra heavy, pain in the middle of the thighs (? at the gap where there is no bone? not sure?) and oddly enough have some kind of speech impairment in the dreams often too that feels associated with the rest of the pain

I do not know if I ever have had an accidental click while sleeping but I did feel a sort of knock or hitting feeling once, though I somehow doubt that was a device click, maybe a body click instead

I am hoping that when I go back down to 15 clicks instead of 21 per day that the evening stiffness/pain after clicking will go away

I will likely stay in Athens more than 3 months actually so I wonder if I will have the option to reduce my clicks to something lower than normal to spread things out-- Or if this is a bad idea and will cause premature consolidation?

[SpeedDialer]

Today I actually had more pain during hamstring stretches than quad stretches, I feel like a nerve or something was in a bit of pain after the hamstring stretches, felt like a long thin string of pain from the underside of my thigh down to the underside of my calf

hamstring stretches are a bit more of a hassle to stretch than quad stretches, maybe I should have the band always at hand to be able to begin hamstring stretches more easily and do them more frequently

IT band stretches and adductor stretches never seem to be that bad -> and I think it may be because at some point, the fat of my thighs blocks the physical therapist from moving the IT band stretch beyond a certain point. And also when he tries to stretch my adductors beyond a certain point, it just moves/rotates my whole body, which also puts a limit on how much they can be stretched

[SpeedDialer]

Back in the non-handicap room

I'll say a few things:

- it is totally possible to be in a non-handicap Montaza room after 3 weeks if you have gnail at least

- like alot of pieces of technology in general, the card keys at montaza have occasional certain issues of randomly stopping working, make sure you bring your phone and/or ID with you if you leave your room early on just in case (won't matter later when the front desk people recognize you though)

- The wheelchair will not fit into the bathroom door opening in the non handicap room -> that is actually OK for gnail and I wonder if its OK for some other nails too

- you can buy a toilet seat raiser from the guys who deliver the exercise bike (just ask them on whatsapp) for like 45 euros, it didn't really help me in the handicap room (where you can transfer from your wheelchair) but it is helping me now transfer from walker to toilet

- Technically it should be possible in theory to unplug the TV and use that outlet to charge devices on your desk, not sure, the other outlets are a bit far

- recommend getting a towel early and using it to hep you transfer from bed to wheelchair. Wheels/metal can chaffe your butt

- the non-handicap room will feel very small after you have lived in the handicap room, but honestly that's not a bad thing because if you ever fell down, you probably would rarely hit the floor, you'd probably actually just bump into the wall or fall onto the bed because of how tight the space is

- wonder if it would be worth getting some kind of foldable desk to increase desk space a little? small desk. But space is extremely tight as it is

- feeling lazy and I don't feel like slipping in the shower, why add that risk for so little reward? Can use cleaning wipes, I have alot. Can't get my wheelchair to the sink anymore (bathroom too narrow) to wash my hair though. I think maybe I'll just put a tiny tiny bit shampoo in my hair before going to the bathroom, walk in with the walker, put a bit of water on, go back to the wheelchair outside the bathroom, wipe it down with a towel, not sure if there are better ways?

then again, the walls are so narrow in the bathroom and shower that even if I did slip, I'd basically not fall down onto the floor-> I'd just bump into a wall and there would probably be no problem

I think it might be helpful to always have a chair at the edge of the bed and always have a walker at the edge of the bed. To be able to frequently use them for stretching and practicing transfers. With the big bed in the standard room, there's plenty of perimeter around the bed

[SpeedDialer]

I think the room you're referring to is the double for single use room. I'll be following your diary very closely to determine whether it's suitable! 

I think they do go to Novotel now because it was one of the options provided.

I'm also waiting to see whether you guys are offered to use the new SUV to transport you to and from the PT centre.

Have you lost much weight since surgery?

What are your current thoughts of about montaza vs novotel? Thinking of doing internal tibias some day, not sure which would be better

If the nurse frequency at montaza is still higher, I'm tempted to do like 3 weeks handicap room at Montaza then the remaining time at Novotel (bigger desk space, probably less noise, save money/time on the commute, much more beautiful and large). I think one internal precise femur patient did something like this. But I'm not sure that is actually a good idea for internal tibias, I don't know how hard/easy the transfers are (wheelchair/bed, wheelchair/toilet etc)