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[SpeedDialer]

Looking at the novotel menu vs montaza hotel menu

novotel seems to have some like expensive higher end options like a 25 Euro salmon meal

but novotel doesn't seem to have like the 6-7 euro meal options that montaza has

novotel looks like it has a greater variety of ice cream options and more fruits and has more french stuff, probably because the french company accor owns novotel

probably my favorite fruit now are the green apples at montaza, something about that sour sugary taste in the skin

I think for the breakfast buffet I can eat like 5-6 eggs until I can't eat anymore, I mean maybe I could eat more if I had less chocolate milk or less orange juice

Although sometimes you'll hear from some of bodybuilders/ weightlifters that you gotta eat protein every X hours or 3 hours or w/e, but I'm skeptical of that. I mean if you eat a big breakfast buffet I have to think it takes a long time for all of that food to digest

[SpeedDialer]

Trying to see if I can request a healthier starch option than french fries with the 6.50 euro burger meal, a little bit worried about the potential long term effects of eating french fries every day for several months (ex: supersize me movie)

It seems hit or miss when they have rice available

I mean I could ask for a bunch of toast/bread I guess but that would be pretty bland

wonder if I could ask for potatoes instead, maybe I'll do that

They probably have pasta on hand which might taste OK with salt

[SpeedDialer]

I have an idea

I could buy the vanilla ice cream during breakfast and then eat with the chocolate cake they have at montaza. Or with the ice cream with the other sugar powdered cake they have sometimes

Probably not a great idea though, better to fill my stomach with the breakfast buffet food during breakfast time. and in fact maybe I should be just grabbing two plates of eggs first thing to ensure I eat more protein before I eat any cake or chocolate milk. I feel a bit awkward about asking for help to fill two plates of eggs--- usually, I ask for one plate, they fill up like 2/3 of a plate and they are like "want more?" I'm like "yup" they put a bit more, they ask me again, this repeats like 5 times until one plate is full

The eggs are positioned a big higher than what I can see from my wheelchair. At some point I should be make the trek to the breakfast buffet with the walker probably

I'm still wary of their sausages, they seem very soft/dough-like in consistency and I wish they were cooked a bit more, I'm a bit afraid of them after the time I puked after eating them (though that could be unrelated)

Definitely leg lengthening related

hamstring stretches seem to benefit from PNS (stretch, tense up muscle, relax, stretch with more range of motion than before) but I might try it with quads too

when I fit my wheelchair in the space between the bathroom door and the bed with the wheelchair facing the bed, the wheelchair seems to auto scrunch up into partial folded mode - probably from the lack of space

it sort of gives a cradle space in the middle to rest one leg on while another can rest on a wheelchair handle for a hamstring stretch

I'm trying to prioritize the most important things to bring back to the USA after I leave Greece. The pee bottle is useful but also very cheap/replaceable. Same with the grabber. The extra big ice packs for my legs were a big expensive so I might try to save those. Probably want to save the walker/crutches/wheelchair of course. Probably want to save all of my clothes, computers, etc. So I guess its a question of what I am comfortable with abandoning in Greece. Probably the pillows. The extra blanket I got was expensive though. I can probably abandon all my liquids, they are pretty replaceable. It is odd- I feel like I brought too much but I also somewhat feel that I use almost everything I brought. Wish I had brought a bigger second travel bag-> although it would be very clunky to bring with me, ultimately I'll just end up asking the airport to move it for me so its no problem

[SpeedDialer]

Stuff I thought I would use but didn't end up using as much as I thought:

- portable thin book holders (holds books/papers upright) -> desk is too tiny, no space anyway

- my favorite extra big towel -> I used it as a blanket on the plane ride but I never use it now since I don't shower that often. also its size is a hassle during LL

- shower chair they give me -> I find myself using this next to my bed to stretch my hamstrings since I don't shower that often

- tablets -> thought I'd use these more but honestly with the m1 macbook air battery life/weight/having a keyboard there isn't much point to using tablets for what I mostly do (listen to youtube vids to distract me from pain)

- computer I use for gaming -> tiny desk at Montaza uncomfortable, I don't use it that much, I stay in bed more often and listen to stuff from my m1 macbook air, developing some right wrist pain also

- paper towels -> no point, just use the hotel's towels + toilet paper

what I am using more than I thought:

- I have a second grabber and I leave it in the bathroom, it helps me grab random stuff, helps me adjust my slippers

- vaseline, useful for all sorts of things, maybe I should have bought more, some brands are better quality than others

- cleaning wipes, so useful, so cheap

I spend alot of my time just eyes closed, lying down, listening to something, trying to escape from the pain and discomfort, waiting till I feel like doing some more stretches and then repeating this

I think it could be good to have two small water bottles and maybe like a strap connected to a grocery bag -> can fill up two water bottles each time you go to the bathroom so you have more water by the bed (handy for thirst, rinsing mouth, rinsing w/e)

I don't think a dry shampoo is that helpful because I can just sit on the toilet, reach my arms over to the sink and wash my hair that way

I thought that a VR headset would be nice during LL, but I actually think its probably worse than just a thin and light laptop with long battery life b/c of comfort and hassle

[SpeedDialer]

Oh I guess I thought I would use my wireless keyboard and laptop and HDMI cable with the TV like back at home but that turned out to not be a thing, the TV is like up in the air and small

Maybe would be different for novotel, idk?

Its just alot easier to use a small thin and light laptop near you at all times than deal with the above

I think bringing some strong see through bags is useful and a bunch of nametags is useful. At montaza the storage room is sort of them just putting all the stuff on the floor together, good to have your stuff labeled I think

A small fan is quite useful for cooling off your butt b/c you'll spend alot of your time sitting on it

[SpeedDialer]

On the plane ride, the seat table is a bit too low to use the laptop comfortably so I ended up just rewatching LOTR

I think maybe podcasts are ideal for the plane ride, you just close your eyes

I got the burger meal with pasta, it was 7.50 euros instead of 6.50 but at least it avoids eating fried foods

With some salt, the pasta tastes pretty good, I think they drizzled some oil on it to make it taste better not sure

[SpeedDialer]

I think the mornings are a bit rough because at that point the legs are very stiff/sore and I think it is possible that by that time the painkillers have worn off

In the evenings I sort of find myself waiting until the tramadol kicks in, that sleepiness and then I feel its time to do the clicks

My technique seems to be getting better (not having legs tucked in too close -> feels a bit crammed) or starting at a position that lets me use gravity and angles better to be able to click more easily with less force from my arm

I remember seeing a youtube vid wishing there were left and right specific nails and I sort of wish that was the case. It is just much easier if the first click is the small click, I can't explain why

I have not yet tried the two arm method of clicking, I mean it looks really efficient but requires you to engage your arm/upper body muscles just slightly a bit more than the way the nurses show you

In a day it feels like there are three kinds of painful experiences:

1. Clicking (though I did have a period where clicking was virtually painless briefly when my amount of total lengthening was low but my technique was improving alot)

2. Exercising (except bicycle exercise, bicycle basically never hurts and feels fantastic) - walking with the walker is not bad but my hands/wrists are starting to hurt, maybe being lighter will help for this. Its also just not so pleasant to walk with the walker when the thighs are sore in general obviously

3. stretching, especially at physical therapy is the most painful part of the experience I think. I mean I still like it because I think to myself "there is no way I am going to achieve those ranges of motion by myself, its better pain now as opposed to more pain later with also less walking function"

I know they want us to walk like an hour a day. On a day to day basis, the fear of the pain during physical therapy gives alot of motivation to do at home stretches to decrease that pain (though in practice the pain might end up being the same, they'll just go for even more range of motion). There isn't something as visceral to motivate you to do more walking.

There is one person doing externals now that I know of here in Athens, and I am under the impression that even small stretching movements cause him great pain due to the pins. the female physical therapist tends to get annoyed because from her perspective, she is hardly moving the legs/feet but it causes groans/screams of pain. I have to think that this disconnect is frustrating for externals patients.

The physical therapy room as of oct 2022 is on the 3rd floor (not in the hotel ,not in the hospital) (it will say in the elevator in Greek "physikotherapia" for the third floor where the ph sound is the greek letter phi and the th is theta and capital rho looks like a P for R sounds). The pavement around the physical therapy center is slanted/old so be careful when using the walker on it

I'm still trying to figure out what "peristo" means, I hear it alot from Greek speakers

[SpeedDialer]

I think a second pair of slippers might be helpful in case your first breaks but slippers are probably cheap/really easy to replace in athens

I have to remember to bring like actual shoes and socks when I start using the anti gravity treadmill, maybe I should ask them what is the first date I should bring shoes

Its getting alot colder too now, I miss the September weather already

I keep forgetting to check the weather in the morning, might be helpful to know when to bring my raincoat to protect my smartphone

[SpeedDialer]

There is a worker at the montaza hotel with a small black beard / stubble who seems naturally tall and handsome and sometimes I wonder if he understands what he has. He's friendly/polite, comes in and brings meals for room service, and I wonder if he realizes he naturally has what alot of these patients are going through alot of pain trying to just get a small bit of

In youtube vids about Greece from the Easy Greek language learning channel, I would sometimes see in those vids Greek guys saying that Greek girls are hot- it seems to be true, but I am possibly getting a distorted view because montaza hotel is near a bunch of strip clubs + there were plenty of young tourists from other countries around who might have just been wearing less clothes back in September because it was very warm

I remember leechlet's diary years ago where he remembered seeing some tall, good looking people in France and he felt a bit bad about himself

At physical therapy, there are alot of leg lengthening patients, and it feels a bit like gym/physical education class in school except we are taking turns occasionally screaming or groaning in pain. We're sort of all united in one view, which is that height has value and the lack of it can cause problems, but on a day to day basis we don't really talk about those kind of societal issues and its more of like friendly pleasantries (how are you feeling, how is the hotel, where are you from, etc)
 
there are lots of people from australia I feel. Just two people I think right now from the USA, which surprised me a bit. Actually, that makes sense because I think that the USA has more LL doctors than Australia. With an international group like this, English becomes the main language in the physical therapy center except when the nurses/physical therapists are talking amongst each other. And it makes sense there are no British people here since Dr. Giotikas has a British office. And it probably makes sense there are no Greek patients that I've seen yet because they can simply just live at home and find local physical therapists in their area

I'm finding that after closing my eyes/resting after using the ice machine / electricity / pressure machine at physical therapy that (like waking up from a nap), my voice is a bit muffled and hard to understand, especially under a mask

When there are too many people in the physical therapy center, they tell us to wear masks

I got 4 covid shots done before I came and sometimes get lazy with mask usage. after I ate the meal on the airplane ride, I've been a bit lazier about putting a mask on since I already basically broke my rule on the airplane

[SpeedDialer]

test

[thankscience]

Have you decided whether you will move to Novotel yet? Also, any update on the SUV or are you still taking taxis?

[SpeedDialer]

Have you decided whether you will move to Novotel yet? Also, any update on the SUV or are you still taking taxis?

I'm staying at Montaza for the whole time, I feel like w/ gnail I can handle the non handicap room well. I took a shower with Evi's help and I feel like with practicing once or so more I can do it on my own (but I am not really motivated to shower on my own when I can just wash my hair while sitting on the toilet by reaching my arms over to the sink's water stream)

I asked Evi about the SUV, she told me to just wait and she would tell everyone about it when they were ready so I'm in the dark

I still am considering novotel if I do internal tibias one day (I'm thinking of doing maybe like 4 weeks montaza handicap room -> then move to novotel but I wonder if my idea is stupid or not, I can't tell. I can't tell how much greater frequency of nurse visits will even be a thing or how much it will matter.)

Evi's great, she even came last Sunday to help, it feels like she is constantly working and rarely takes breaks

What are your thoughts on what to do for food? I don't know if Novotel has a microwave or a bigger refrigerator or anything. At Montaza, I feel like I can fit my extra large cold packs (coming in a few days), some water, maybe some soda in the cooler they give us but I don't really feel like dealing with storing meat or anything like that. I find myself just eating the burger meal with pasta at montaza, I paid a bit more to get the pasta I think but it was still less than 8 euros per meal. It is still a mostly carb meal (maybe unfortunately?) but at least it seems like a step up over eating french fries everyday, which I was beginning to be afraid of health-wise

Novotel seems like a more upscale French-influenced (in the menu) hotel and their food seems significantly more expensive but maybe better. I don't know why but I'm having some issues uploading pictures, but I tried to upload the montaza menu but the forum wouldn't let me, not sure why

[SpeedDialer]

Have you decided whether you will move to Novotel yet? Also, any update on the SUV or are you still taking taxis?

Still taking taxis, Evi told me to wait until they are ready to announce the SUV info to everyone

Taxi costs are indeed cancer but I am thankful that there is another patient who goes to physical therapy at the same time as me and we can share costs

[thankscience]

Evi's great, she even came last Sunday to help, it feels like she is constantly working and rarely takes breaks

What are your thoughts on what to do for food? I don't know if Novotel has a microwave or a bigger refrigerator or anything. At Montaza, I feel like I can fit my extra large cold packs (coming in a few days), some water, maybe some soda in the cooler they give us but I don't really feel like dealing with storing meat or anything like that. I find myself just eating the burger meal with pasta at montaza, I paid a bit more to get the pasta I think but it was still less than 8 euros per meal. It is still a mostly carb meal (maybe unfortunately?) but at least it seems like a step up over eating french fries everyday, which I was beginning to be afraid of health-wise

Novotel seems like a more upscale French-influenced (in the menu) hotel and their food seems significantly more expensive but maybe better. I don't know why but I'm having some issues uploading pictures, but I tried to upload the montaza menu but the forum wouldn't let me, not sure why

Is Evi the only nurse that visits you?

Hmm I would order groceries with mostly vegetables/pre-made meals to save money (if it works out cheaper)...tbh I'm a vegetarian so it's important to me to get vegetables and protein powder, but that doesn't seem to be an issue for you. (I'm thinking about stopping vegetarianism when I get the surgery but chicken is the only meat I like). What do the others staying at Montaza do for food?

[SpeedDialer]

Is Evi the only nurse that visits you?

Hmm I would order groceries with mostly vegetables/pre-made meals to save money (if it works out cheaper)...tbh I'm a vegetarian so it's important to me to get vegetables and protein powder, but that doesn't seem to be an issue for you. (I'm thinking about stopping vegetarianism when I get the surgery but chicken is the only meat I like). What do the others staying at Montaza do for food?

Sometimes Bill comes instead. There are two visiting nurses in total (Bill and Evi), I'm under the impression usually at most one of them is at Montaza 

Though actually recently I don't really need as much help as before and they spend more of their time helping the guy who uses externals. I think people on externals might want to stay at Montaza for the more frequent nurse visits because of the pin cleaning/infections/etc, not sure

I'm really only aware of what the guy doing externals (lives in Montaza also) is doing for food, and I am under the impression he is begrudgingly eating the hotel's food but wishes it had more protein and wishes he could get takeout. I think he is eating some falafel dishes and sometimes the burger dish. And sometimes they'll have like a chicken leg and a big plate of rice flavored with lemon. There also seems to be a variety of dish of the day traditional greek dishes, which I'm under the impression are often mixtures of pasta, red sauce, cheese, maybe some meat, and other things

I am under the impression with all the greek salads/falafel dishes it should be easy for a vegetarian to get by at montaza but it might depend on what someone likes. I feel like the amount of food they give you is pretty large

Although, according to the guy doing externals, the montaza hotel says they don't allow takeout from other places, I think a way around that is to simply set the address to be a nearby address, then go outside and accept that food when it comes. It is a hassle but oh well

I have not done the math, but I am not sure if premade meals put into the fridge come out to be cheaper when factoring in delivery costs. The other issue is that you will have no way to warm up the food unless you count using the kettle they give you to boil water and pour it in. So actually I guess if someone wanted like ramen meals/oatmeal meals/pour in hot water types of meals or something then yes it would be cheaper than hotel and maybe I'll try that sometime. I guess and canned soup meals should obviously be cheaper than the hotel too if you're willing to eat them at room temperature.

[SpeedDialer]

Have you decided whether you will move to Novotel yet? Also, any update on the SUV or are you still taking taxis?

Ah good timing, they just sent an email about it to everyone just now, it's probably in your inbox

if not I will ask if I can paste the info here but basically it is approximately these costs:

SUV
montaza -> physio is 7 euros
novotel -> physio is 4 euros

(One way costs for everything)

Thank god, I think this cuts the costs way down even less than taxi sharing (er its a good reduction but not as much as I thought. I was paying 20 euros * 4 is 80 euros per week with taxi sharing cutting my old costs in half. So now it will be more like 7*2*4=56 euros from montaza per week for physical therapy travel). I didn't include doctor visits in my calculation since those are only once every two weeks

hospital for both cases is like 11/12 euros ish

to airport is like 32 euros

starts mid october, we have to inform the nurses if we want to use it, I think we will have some kind of help getting into the vehicle not sure

What are your thoughts now for Novotel vs Montaza? That 4 euro one way cost for novotel does indeed look good, but it doesn't really make up for Novotel's more expensive cost. Then again, the montaza handicap room is a bit expensive like 61 euros per day and novotel is 86 ish I think

In a week so you'd save uh lets see (7-4)*4*2=24 euros per week I think? So for travel costs for Novotel now you would only save 24 euros per week if my math is right? So Novotel is significantly more expensive than Montaza still but the good news is now that with the SUV everyones costs go down overall

[thankscience]

Thanks for the info regarding the new SUV prices...wow that's a massive difference I think! Much more cost effective...

Doing some rough calculations with the new SUV prices, Montaza still seems cheaper overall - I'd say there's about a 1000 euro difference (if not more) depending on which room you choose to stay in.

[SpeedDialer]

Found out some things

Internal tibias precise:

- you can walk very short distances with the walker

- but they still ask you to bring the wheelchair with you to physical therapy

- Trying to find out about staying in Athens 3 months vs 6 months

- I'm under the impression there is greater risk of complications but in the short term it is less pain for the patient, am I wrong?

- still don't know what stretches they do for internal tibias at physical therapy, maybe I'll observe it later. I have to think that physical therapy they probably do more than just calves stretches, I mean I would think they would want to stretch the others just in case? If the patient is there anyway for physical therapy and needs to walk again eventually? I keep missing it and not seeing it, maybe I'll see it next time when I go to physical therapy

[SpeedDialer]

Alright here is the original SUV email, evidently its just a pilot experiment for now:

"We are delighted to introduce a new transfer service for our patients in Athens, with our brand new company car, a Peugeot 2008 SUV!

You can now use our car to go from the affiliated hotels (or nearby areas) to your physio sessions, hospital appointments or to the airport on the day of your departure from Athens.

The service starts on Thursday 13th October 2022. The first 2 weeks will be pilot, to see how the service works, make adjustments etc.

You can benefit from its competitive pricing, the familiarity and comfort (as opposed to traveling with unknown vehicles and drivers), and from the fact that it is nurse led, so a nurse will be there to help you at all times during transfers.



Please let the nurses know if you wish to use the service



The pricing will be as follows:

Montaza / Grand Hyatt to physio center: 7 euro

Montaza / Grand Hyatt to Mediterraneo hospital: 8 euro

Novotel to physio center: 4

Novotel to Mediterraneo hospital: 11

Physio center to Mediterraneo hospital:12

All hotels to the airport: 32



All of the above prices are per person, one way.

Payments can be made in cash every Thursday for the total of transfers you did in the week before.

An invoice/receipt of your payments can be issued before your departure, at the end of your stay in Athens."

[SpeedDialer]

"Payments can be made in cash every Thursday for the total of transfers you did in the week before."

Alright I am not sure if they will stick to this, but based on the above, I would bring alot of cash in Euros just in case, I think its on the order of 800-1000 euros but am not completely sure my math is right

This is a bit of a problem for me, I need to get to an ATM but I think the nearest ATMs to Montaza might involve crossing two very large/wide busy streets which I'm not really willing to do on my walker or wheelchair

[SpeedDialer]

I realized another pro/con of novotel vs montaza

at montaza in the three rooms I've been in, I haven't ever been able to get the water to be hot, just lukewarm, slightly warmer at most

maybe I'm wrong, anyone wanna chime in?

at novotel, based on something ozboy told me, it should be able to get hot water from the shower which he said helps with soreness if you aim the nozzle at your sore leg

[thankscience]

If you take a bath you might have to heat up the kettle and pour it in

[SpeedDialer]

Ah there's no basin for a bath at montaza, its just a shower

Anyone know if that is the case for Novotel?

I've found the second grabber stick kind of useful, I just leave it in the bathroom and grab stuff when I need to and I don't have to take the grabber with me to the bathroom while using a walker

The small pedal bike machine I bought is awesome, really a game changer for me. Helps with stiffness and depending on if you are leaning in or leaning back it stretches the muscles gently. Useful to warm up legs around clicking time or just move the legs/distract you from the pain

[OzBoy39]

Standard rooms have a basin in the shower and a glass door.
Handicap room doesn't. Straight on the floor

[SpeedDialer]

Standard rooms have a basin in the shower and a glass door.
Handicap room doesn't. Straight on the floor

Thanks!

[SpeedDialer]

I wonder if some kind of protein powder with omega 3 fats (maybe from seeds or something) might be good for this journey

But I don't know if it has any adverse cross reactions with other things we take so not sure

I mean I buy the burger meal with pasta at Montaza and think to myself "well I just ate a meal that is almost entirely carbs with a small amount of meat and an even smaller amount of veggies" and I feel somewhat that high carb meal - I sort of wonder if I even need those carbs I mean the training is hard but I don't know if it actually uses alot of calories

[thankscience]

If you take a bath you might have to heat up the kettle and pour it in

I was also going to say you could try a hot water bottle if you don't have a bath

[SpeedDialer]

I feel now the hardest part is the extreme soreness/stiffness/unresponsiveness of the legs I feel right after waking up

I often nap after physical therapy, and I heard this napping is common (not sure how much is from exhaustion and how much is from the cooling of the legs they do at the end)

The soreness after physical therapy -> it is very difficult psychologically to do clicks that night. So far I've won the battle each night against the urge to skip clicks but I am afraid I may lose this battle someday if I don't figure out something

I've found the massage gun useful for this, I sort of glide it gently over the legs and it "wakes" them up a little and makes them more responsive to being moved

Then I go use the pedal machine a bit to "wake" up the muscles even more

Unfortunately, it doesn't make the soreness go away

I keep pushing the evening clicks to be later and later at night to buy me time

Its often not so bad once it gets started, its only 7 clicks..

Sort of becomes this battle "cmon evening painkillers, please kick in already and help me do the evening clicks"

There is something psychologically difficult about the clicks too "alright time to lose my flexibility progress a bit by lengthening my legs"

My hands and feet often sweat easily in real life before this, and they seem to sweat more during LL in general

[SpeedDialer]

Right now, the things stopping me from using the shower hot water to stop soreness is:

1. the lack of hot water in shower nozzle

2. I could boil some water and then I think to make it safe, I would need to dilute it with regular tap water and then it would only last like one pour on my legs, not like a continuous stream of hot water

3. The overall awkwardness of getting into the tiny crammed shower area. Requires several points of not being supported by the walker (one to fold walker to be able to fit inside, one to grab shower chair to pull it into the shower area since otherwise it would block my entrance if I left in the shower area to begin with, one to fold the walker to pull it outside of the shower area). Still working out with Evi the best way to do this if I'm alone without her

"just walk inside without the walker" I could I guess -> but with the anti gravity treadmill even walking at only 50% of my weight is a significant task and same w/ walking w/ the crutches, I'm still afraid to try walking unassisted

However, the extra large cooling pads should be coming soon and I wonder if they will be a game changer. Unfortunately, unlike hot water, I don't think it is a good idea to use them before clicking or exercise, they seem more like a pain relief method to use when you're exhausted and can't exercise or stretch anymore

Anyone at Montaza been able to get like actual hot water and not just kind of warm water from the shower nozzle?

[LothLorien]

Thanks for your post. I've had a rough idea about what to expect from this surgery.

[SpeedDialer]

The burger at montaza- the edges of the patty are always burnt, I gotta remember to remove those edges before I eat them

Still debating whether to get a protein powder of sorts. Kinda feel iffy about the mostly carb dinners I usually have. Just kinda afraid of cross reactions with other things

Then again, protein powders/drinks are probably common. I am pretty sure the guy with a starting height of about 175 cm said he takes them everyday hm..

Definitely leg lengthening related