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[OzBoy39]

Hi Everyone,

I've been reading pretty much all of you in this forum since I decided to jump in and book my surgery and I must thank each and everyone of you who posted their experiences, the details of PT, surgery, hospitals, doctors. You've been an incredible source of information.

Also a big shout out to Vic from @Cyborg4Life. He is th hero among us and deserves all the success he can get.

In about 2 weeks time (Aug 24th) I'll go for a bilateral femoral lengthening through G-Nail with Dr. Giotikas in Athens.

I have explored various options before this but the combination of being a weight bearing nail (although with a gruesome  ratcheting mechanism lol), the package that Dr. G. offers (they include full PT in the cost... that's quite good), his reputation and overall the "vibe" of competence that I got in my 1 hour consultation with him convinced me that he is the right option. Ah.. and the location. You can't beat Greece in summertime.

I'll be staying at the Novotel in Athens, which is the closest hotel to the PT centre with all the amenities i was looking for (gym, pool, various restaurants...big breakfast...).  If anyone is staying there too, please reach out and we can grab a few drinks together.

I thought I start this diary to share my experience, the goods, the bads... the ugly (hopefully not) and the achievements and get in return some much needed support from people that understand what most of us are driven from when going through this.

A bit of background. 38 years old, 164cm, 64Kg caucasian male. Live in Australia with my wife and an amazing kid (the real pain here is to leave him for about 2 months but my wife has been supportive of this from day one. Nobody else knows about this. Not my family  not my friends. This is a solo journey and I'm lucky I can actually afford it (money and time).

About my current build... I'm fairly athletic and in good shape. Use to go hard-core to crossfit gym until 6-7 months ago when I literally stopped doing lower body hypertrophy sessions and only concentrated on stretching.

I still kept my upper body routine somewhat but just in order to.. maintain. I believe that will help heaps during lengthening to be able to move around. I did lose a lot of cardio stamina though as i havent been going to classes sonce then.

On the other hand, my flexibility gains have been quite satisfying. I'm at a point where as far as hamstrings go, I can easily go palms to ground with my elbow bended somewhat. On  the hip flexor side, I can't quite gauge how flexible they are but I've been concentrating most of my efforts on those recently as I understand and I feel they will be key to success and are notoriously harder to stretch than the hammies.

What are my goals?
Well, I set myself a 3 tiered goal. I'd like to aim at a minimum of 7cm as tier1, which will make me happy as ill get closer to average (and with shoes i should reach close to 175cm), but if I feel good the ideal goal would be between 8-9cm.

If then things progress better than I expect (Im not holding my breadth here) I would venture the double digit goal as my ultimate target. Yes I understand this is risky and all that and I do appreciate everyone providing comments to other patient to don't risk a healthy body for an extra cm. I'll see how thing go and follow the Doctor's and PT's advise when I'm there.

Other than this, I hope I can manage to squeeze in some trip around Athens as I believe this time of the year the weather should be awesome (I like hot sweaty climates).

Anyway, hope to be able to provide insights that will help other prospective patients, do don't shy away from questions.

Cheers
OzBoy

[ilovescience]

Welcome to the forum. I know Australia is a country where many men are tall, but you are not short. 164cm is a good height. I have met people shorter than you when I was in Australia.

[OzBoy39]

Thanks @ilovescience.
Yeah definitely not "the" shortest, but I'd say within the bottom 3-5 percentile.

 Let's see if we can reach the dream of getting to somewhere around the 45th percentile at 173cm.

[thankscience]

Good luck on your journey!

I'm considering Dr G for early next year and have a couple of questions. How much does the 1 hour consultation cost and what things did you discuss? Also, how much more expensive is staying at Novotel compared to Montaza, the one Athens BJR recommend?

[Infinite]

Hi Everyone,

I've been reading pretty much all of you in this forum since I decided to jump in and book my surgery and I must thank each and everyone of you who posted their experiences, the details of PT, surgery, hospitals, doctors. You've been an incredible source of information.

Also a big shout out to Vic from @Cyborg4Life. He is th hero among us and deserves all the success he can get.

In about 2 weeks time (Aug 24th) I'll go for a bilateral femoral lengthening through G-Nail with Dr. Giotikas in Athens.

I have explored various options before this but the combination of being a weight bearing nail (although with a gruesome  ratcheting mechanism lol), the package that Dr. G. offers (they include full PT in the cost... that's quite good), his reputation and overall the "vibe" of competence that I got in my 1 hour consultation with him convinced me that he is the right option. Ah.. and the location. You can't beat Greece in summertime.

I'll be staying at the Novotel in Athens, which is the closest hotel to the PT centre with all the amenities i was looking for (gym, pool, various restaurants...big breakfast...).  If anyone is staying there too, please reach out and we can grab a few drinks together.

I thought I start this diary to share my experience, the goods, the bads... the ugly (hopefully not) and the achievements and get in return some much needed support from people that understand what most of us are driven from when going through this.

A bit of background. 38 years old, 164cm, 64Kg caucasian male. Live in Australia with my wife and an amazing kid (the real pain here is to leave him for about 2 months but my wife has been supportive of this from day one. Nobody else knows about this. Not my family  not my friends. This is a solo journey and I'm lucky I can actually afford it (money and time).

About my current build... I'm fairly athletic and in good shape. Use to go hard-core to crossfit gym until 6-7 months ago when I literally stopped doing lower body hypertrophy sessions and only concentrated on stretching.

I still kept my upper body routine somewhat but just in order to.. maintain. I believe that will help heaps during lengthening to be able to move around. I did lose a lot of cardio stamina though as i havent been going to classes sonce then.

On the other hand, my flexibility gains have been quite satisfying. I'm at a point where as far as hamstrings go, I can easily go palms to ground with my elbow bended somewhat. On  the hip flexor side, I can't quite gauge how flexible they are but I've been concentrating most of my efforts on those recently as I understand and I feel they will be key to success and are notoriously harder to stretch than the hammies.

What are my goals?
Well, I set myself a 3 tiered goal. I'd like to aim at a minimum of 7cm as tier1, which will make me happy as ill get closer to average (and with shoes i should reach close to 175cm), but if I feel good the ideal goal would be between 8-9cm.

If then things progress better than I expect (Im not holding my breadth here) I would venture the double digit goal as my ultimate target. Yes I understand this is risky and all that and I do appreciate everyone providing comments to other patient to don't risk a healthy body for an extra cm. I'll see how thing go and follow the Doctor's and PT's advise when I'm there.

Other than this, I hope I can manage to squeeze in some trip around Athens as I believe this time of the year the weather should be awesome (I like hot sweaty climates).

Anyway, hope to be able to provide insights that will help other prospective patients, do don't shy away from questions.

Cheers
OzBoy

Hey Ozboy,

First, Congratulations, and I wish you to reach your goal!
Patients have had/have some difficulties with G-Nail clicking. The package of Dr. Giotikas suggests nurses will assist you with clicks if you stay at the Montaza or Grand Hyatt hotels.
Nearly all of the patients stay there, and I think it can be very helpful for social situations.

I have a few questions.

Why didn't you stay at the Montaza or Grand Hyatt hotels?

How can Dr. Giotikas solve non-union with G-nails that cannot be reversed?

Have you seen/spoken to other patients who have had G-Nail treatment and checked how they walk now/do sports to be impressed by the results of G-Nail?

According to my understanding, Dr. Giotikas is staying in Athens for two weeks and in the UK for two weeks. What are your options if you need him urgently?

[OzBoy39]

Hey Thankscience

It was 200 euro if I remember correct. This was after the free 15 mins consult.

We discussed pretty much everything I wanted to clarify. Dr. G gave me a thorough review of the process pre, during and post op. Explained the risks in details and answered all the questions I had. We also went through my background and lifestyle to assess potential habits to change before the ops.

About the Novotel, it is definitely more expensive than the Montaza, but I had the chance to pay it through my frequent flyer points (due to Covid I kept accumulating so many points that pretty much I spent 0 cash at Novotel for 2 months... Super sweet deal. They didn't have the Montaza as an option. The Hyatt instead was fully booked until Nov 10).

That was pretty much it

[OzBoy39]

Hi Infinite.

Thank you man.
Yeah I would have definitely preferred staying at the Montaza and or the Hyatt (although this last one for this period is super expensive even with the discount offered).

But I had this deal that I can pay the hotel with frequent flyer points that I accumulated during Covid and the Montaza wasn't among the options. The Hyatt is fully booked until Sep10.

Regarding the non-union, I understood from him that is a rare circumstance in limb lengthening, and something a patient and his doctor need to be on top of (ahead of the game) through monitoring with x-rays, excercise, nutrition and supplementation. If non union starts to develop, the first option is to slow down the lengthening and if it becomes a chronic condition... Down the surgery path again you go.
The G-nail as we know is a non reversible nail so ... Not much you can do in terms of compression.

I haven't spoken directly to any other patient. And I believe by reading and watching pretty much any  testimonial out there that

1- it is possible to go back to a perfectly normal life
2- I think you definitely will have reduced performance in sports activities with limitations that will most likely impact thongs like jumping, explosive burst from your legs and similar motions.

Me personally, I'm almost in my 40s. Not chasing any Olympic dream anymore, so as long as I can regain my mobility/flexibility (which now btw is definitely above average due to all the stretching I'm doing😂) to be able to perform simple sporting activities, I'd be super happy then.

Having to continue stretching forever... If that's a thong, it's definitely not a problem. I love this routine of stretching your body out and after you get somewhat good at it, you sort of crave it, it's a relaxing part of my day.


Last about Dr G. Splitting his time between Athens and the UK. Yeah there's that, but again from what I understand, most patients see their doctors every few weeks or even months. If some complications arise that require medical attentions, if it's life threatening I'm assuming it's not going to be dr G only to take care of it. There will be a team of professional within the Mediterraneo hospital that will take care of whatever comes up.

[thankscience]

Thanks for the answers! I didn't think Dr G did it 2 weeks in Athens then 2 weeks in the UK - I read somewhere it was a few days per week in Athens then a few days in the UK. I might be wrong though.

Are you getting travel insurance? Also, what types of stretches are you using for hip flexors?

I look forward to reading your journey!

[OzBoy39]

No problems at all.
Yeah I'm honestly not too sure about his schedule. I might have asked at the time of the consultation but can't remember now.

I looked quite a lot into travel insurances.  I got myself one middle tier for about 300$, BUT they clearly state, like all other insurances, that they do not cover for any medical claim related to a condition that... It's the reason for the trip overseas. So I'm not really sure how useful it'll be. But for 300$, at least I'm covered if I damage my phone or laptop or for some delays and those usual things they cover.

Stretches...  I followed these 2 channels on YouTube
- Tom Merrick
- Strength Side

I started doing their follow along routines and then adjusted and mixed up excercises with the ones I found most effective to me.

The routines from Tom are super relaxing. Nice music flowing in background and overall a nice Zen time before bed. Strength side added a few very intense stretches (hams and hip flexors) which are my favourite now.
Check the link here




They are pretty intense though! It takes a while to start enjoying them depending on your starting range of motion.

[Infinite]

Hi Infinite.

Thank you man.
Yeah I would have definitely preferred staying at the Montaza and or the Hyatt (although this last one for this period is super expensive even with the discount offered).

But I had this deal that I can pay the hotel with frequent flyer points that I accumulated during Covid and the Montaza wasn't among the options. The Hyatt is fully booked until Sep10.

Regarding the non-union, I understood from him that is a rare circumstance in limb lengthening, and something a patient and his doctor need to be on top of (ahead of the game) through monitoring with x-rays, excercise, nutrition and supplementation. If non union starts to develop, the first option is to slow down the lengthening and if it becomes a chronic condition... Down the surgery path again you go.
The G-nail as we know is a non reversible nail so ... Not much you can do in terms of compression.

I haven't spoken directly to any other patient. And I believe by reading and watching pretty much any  testimonial out there that

1- it is possible to go back to a perfectly normal life
2- I think you definitely will have reduced performance in sports activities with limitations that will most likely impact thongs like jumping, explosive burst from your legs and similar motions.

Me personally, I'm almost in my 40s. Not chasing any Olympic dream anymore, so as long as I can regain my mobility/flexibility (which now btw is definitely above average due to all the stretching I'm doing😂) to be able to perform simple sporting activities, I'd be super happy then.

Having to continue stretching forever... If that's a thong, it's definitely not a problem. I love this routine of stretching your body out and after you get somewhat good at it, you sort of crave it, it's a relaxing part of my day.


Last about Dr G. Splitting his time between Athens and the UK. Yeah there's that, but again from what I understand, most patients see their doctors every few weeks or even months. If some complications arise that require medical attentions, if it's life threatening I'm assuming it's not going to be dr G only to take care of it. There will be a team of professional within the Mediterraneo hospital that will take care of whatever comes up.

Hi OzBoy,

I appreciate your complete response.

Your doctor should be available 24 hours a day. This is not a minor procedure, and you must check with your doctor daily. If you experience any complications, you should catch them right away.

What do you mean by "Down the surgery path again you go"?

[OzBoy39]

Yes that would be ideal, but there's always trade offs.
I am ok with it.

Regarding the "going down the surgery way again" that was related to the non union. Ultimately the worst case to fix that is to intervene surgically again.

[leonazul99]

Best of success mate

Hi Everyone,

I've been reading pretty much all of you in this forum since I decided to jump in and book my surgery and I must thank each and everyone of you who posted their experiences, the details of PT, surgery, hospitals, doctors. You've been an incredible source of information.

Also a big shout out to Vic from @Cyborg4Life. He is th hero among us and deserves all the success he can get.

In about 2 weeks time (Aug 24th) I'll go for a bilateral femoral lengthening through G-Nail with Dr. Giotikas in Athens.

I have explored various options before this but the combination of being a weight bearing nail (although with a gruesome  ratcheting mechanism lol), the package that Dr. G. offers (they include full PT in the cost... that's quite good), his reputation and overall the "vibe" of competence that I got in my 1 hour consultation with him convinced me that he is the right option. Ah.. and the location. You can't beat Greece in summertime.

I'll be staying at the Novotel in Athens, which is the closest hotel to the PT centre with all the amenities i was looking for (gym, pool, various restaurants...big breakfast...).  If anyone is staying there too, please reach out and we can grab a few drinks together.

I thought I start this diary to share my experience, the goods, the bads... the ugly (hopefully not) and the achievements and get in return some much needed support from people that understand what most of us are driven from when going through this.

A bit of background. 38 years old, 164cm, 64Kg caucasian male. Live in Australia with my wife and an amazing kid (the real pain here is to leave him for about 2 months but my wife has been supportive of this from day one. Nobody else knows about this. Not my family  not my friends. This is a solo journey and I'm lucky I can actually afford it (money and time).

About my current build... I'm fairly athletic and in good shape. Use to go hard-core to crossfit gym until 6-7 months ago when I literally stopped doing lower body hypertrophy sessions and only concentrated on stretching.

I still kept my upper body routine somewhat but just in order to.. maintain. I believe that will help heaps during lengthening to be able to move around. I did lose a lot of cardio stamina though as i havent been going to classes sonce then.

On the other hand, my flexibility gains have been quite satisfying. I'm at a point where as far as hamstrings go, I can easily go palms to ground with my elbow bended somewhat. On  the hip flexor side, I can't quite gauge how flexible they are but I've been concentrating most of my efforts on those recently as I understand and I feel they will be key to success and are notoriously harder to stretch than the hammies.

What are my goals?
Well, I set myself a 3 tiered goal. I'd like to aim at a minimum of 7cm as tier1, which will make me happy as ill get closer to average (and with shoes i should reach close to 175cm), but if I feel good the ideal goal would be between 8-9cm.

If then things progress better than I expect (Im not holding my breadth here) I would venture the double digit goal as my ultimate target. Yes I understand this is risky and all that and I do appreciate everyone providing comments to other patient to don't risk a healthy body for an extra cm. I'll see how thing go and follow the Doctor's and PT's advise when I'm there.

Other than this, I hope I can manage to squeeze in some trip around Athens as I believe this time of the year the weather should be awesome (I like hot sweaty climates).

Anyway, hope to be able to provide insights that will help other prospective patients, do don't shy away from questions.

Cheers
OzBoy

[OzBoy39]

Thank You! I'll keep my finger crossed (and legs too. It help with stretching the IT bands  )

[thankscience]

I'm curious to know if the price of g-nail is still the same as on the website considering the high inflation in Greece atm

[Infinite]

Yes that would be ideal, but there's always trade offs.
I am ok with it.

Regarding the "going down the surgery way again" that was related to the non union. Ultimately the worst case to fix that is to intervene surgically again.

Hello OzBoy,

Wishing you success in your endeavors!
You can count on me to stay behind you!

There will be a lot of value in this diary.

[thankscience]

No problems at all.
Yeah I'm honestly not too sure about his schedule. I might have asked at the time of the consultation but can't remember now.

I looked quite a lot into travel insurances.  I got myself one middle tier for about 300$, BUT they clearly state, like all other insurances, that they do not cover for any medical claim related to a condition that... It's the reason for the trip overseas. So I'm not really sure how useful it'll be. But for 300$, at least I'm covered if I damage my phone or laptop or for some delays and those usual things they cover.

Stretches...  I followed these 2 channels on YouTube
- Tom Merrick
- Strength Side

I started doing their follow along routines and then adjusted and mixed up excercises with the ones I found most effective to me.

The routines from Tom are super relaxing. Nice music flowing in background and overall a nice Zen time before bed. Strength side added a few very intense stretches (hams and hip flexors) which are my favourite now.

They are pretty intense though! It takes a while to start enjoying them depending on your starting range of motion.

Also, thanks so much for the stretching videos! I'll be sure to start incorporating them into my routine.

[SpeedDialer]

I'll be staying at the Novotel in Athens, which is the closest hotel to the PT centre with all the amenities i was looking for (gym, pool, various restaurants...big breakfast...).  If anyone is staying there too, please reach out and we can grab a few drinks together.

What are your thoughts on Novotel vs Montaza (one of the hotels Dr. Giotikas sends the nurses to?)

Does he also send them to Novotel or what is your plan for that?

[SpeedDialer]

By chance do you have the official website or email for Novotel? Having trouble finding their official website from a google search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=novotel+athens+greece&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS900US900&oq=novotel+athens+greece&aqs=chrome.0.0i512j0i22i30.2667j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[OzBoy39]

By chance do you have the official website or email for Novotel? Having trouble finding their official website from a google search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=novotel+athens+greece&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS900US900&oq=novotel+athens+greece&aqs=chrome.0.0i512j0i22i30.2667j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Not sure how Novotel is and how it compares to Montaza. I'll let you know when I arrive there.  It's definitely a higher tier and its an international chain with pretty decent standards so I'm expecting it to be good.

In regards to nursing I'm gonna have to pay extra I believe.. But since I sort of gotten the hotel with no cash expenditure, then it's ok for me.
Then from Novotel to the PT centre in Peristeri it's a 11min taxi or Uber ride. Uber gives me about 7-8  Euro per trip, so that's another expense to keep in mind.

Novotel website should be this one below
https://all.accor.com/hotel/0866/index.en.crapml#:~:text=The%204%2Dstar%2C%20Novotel%20Athens,%2C%20Monastiraki%2C%20Psiri%2C%20Acropolis.

[djimbo9]

Welcome to the forum. I know Australia is a country where many men are tall, but you are not short. 164cm is a good height. I have met people shorter than you when I was in Australia.

The delusion on this forum is killing me

As for Giotikas… I sent him various emails months ago and never got a response. He also has a murder case behind his back. Screw that guy

[OzBoy39]

I'll keep my fingers crossed I don't make that list.

Good luck with your betzbone. Keep updating like you did in your diary.
All the best

[thankscience]

Is the price of your surgery still the same as on the Athens BJR website?

[OzBoy39]

I haven't checked in a while. I think I paid around 51 or 52K euro if I remember correct. It was the exact amount advertised on the website a few months ago.

[thankscience]

That would be 47845 Euro then for the G-nail according to the website. I'm glad to hear it's still the same.

How has your family reacted to you telling them about this surgery?

[OzBoy39]

Yeah that was the amount. Just checked again.

My family as in my wife she knows and she's supportive and she's now taking care of the little one back home.

My family as in my parents, relative and friends don't know anything about it. I kept it from everyone and it'll stay that way until I'm done.

I know they wouldn't understand and then they'll try to talk me down about it. I don't want to have to deal with it. I'll eventually tell them after I'm done. But I need my mind strong and clear to go through the pains of this procedure and stick with it until the end

[Limbfan2020]

Hi Ozboy39! I wish you all the best for the upcoming surgery! I'm closely following ur diary since i'm also in my late 30s.

Did you also talk to other LL surgeons? Why didn't you choose the Betzbone?

[OzBoy39]

Thanks Limbfan2020. Appreciated.

Yes I was considering Betz together with Giotikas.
I didn't speak with Betz personally, haven't gotten that far.
I had reached out to them too asking for general information and received prompt reply.

Same (similar) nail and technique, no it bands, no physio included, small town in Germany, Betz offered the chance to repatriate you after 3 weeks although I don't quite like that option. But mostly...

Giotikas gave me a good honest vibe in the interview (he sounds very data driven and risk averse on top of just getting me the vibe of a honest person), plus I've red everything I could find on the internet and his reputation seems pretty high. And so I chose this for myself.

And Definitely the first 2 days in Athens have been great.
Fingers crossed.

[thankscience]

Are you taking anything for nerves prior to the surgery?

Thanks again for sharing your experience!

[OzBoy39]

Not a problem at all.

I actually didn't even know there were products to take pre-emptively for nerve pain, so no I didn't take any.

[thankscience]

I meant nerves as in anxiety in this case 

[OzBoy39]

Hahah yeah right!

I'm fairly calm still. Really trying to focus my mind on work and other things.

Today I'll go for the pre-op visit. I'm sure after that it'll be game on and we'll see how I feel then.

But again, so far it's not much about the surgery itself but really the doubts I have about what's coming next

Is the clicking gonna hurt? What does the anaesthesia feel like? How painful will i be at wake up? Will I be able to walk to the wc and back? Will I be able to go down to the kitchen with crutches? How am I gonna sleep? Will I need to hire a nurse?

The fear of all that's unknown I guess. I'll try and keep myself to the present moment at each stage and cope with one thing at a time.

Ah and I marked the wall with a pencil with the various targets im after 168cm, 170, 172. That hopefully will keep my eye and spirit focused on the prize.