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[theuprising]

Like alot of guys when they first discover LL I wanted to do the maximum that was possible. Over time on the forums
you come to realise that you don't just want to be tall but also not have any long term problems following the lengthening.

I've read what Dr Franz and Dr Lee have written as well as the literature which does back up what they say.
I do want to hear the other side, can anyone out there show medical evidence that you won't have significantly higher risk of
long term problems if you lengthen over 6cm? I have a decent starting height so proportions would not be an issue here
rather I don't want the problems that go along with a long lengthening.

[Keep Growing]

You need a bit of luck as each body is different meaning our bodies tolerate LL in different ways.
I have set a target of ''only'' 4 cm for myself (based on my proportions, my frame etc). I believe that if you can improve yourself in other areas like personality, fitness -> muscle etc + a small/safe gain your life will improve in a healthier way than doing 7 cm.

[shortkid]

Ive read so many diaries of people going up to 7.5 without any problems. thats what I want to do.

[KrP1]

It is justificated if you are really short. Like 165. It depends on your starting height

[Cannibal]

If you don't hit 6 feet then leg lengthening isn't worth it. If you can reach 6 feet only by going over 6 cm in one surgery, then go right ahead. If it takes two surgeries on 9 cm each leg, that's fine also.

[KrP1]

Cannibal Thats stupid

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Every body is different so tolerance for lengthening will vary.  I like the idea of not having a preset goal going into LL.  Just lengthen as much as you feel you can handle.  Sweden said all his problems started happening when he passed 5cm, so it probably wasn't a good idea for him to keep going after that point.  I had lots of problems in the beginning with knee inflammation, but that got better and better as my body got used to the device.  Things actually started getting easier for me after 5cm, and I didn't quit after 7.5cm because of problems, I quit because Dr. Xia told me not to go past 8cm.  I don't know what he based this limit on, though.

[G-Man]

Like alot of guys when they first discover LL I wanted to do the maximum that was possible. Over time on the forums
you come to realise that you don't just want to be tall but also not have any long term problems following the lengthening.

I've read what Dr Franz and Dr Lee have written as well as the literature which does back up what they say.
I do want to hear the other side, can anyone out there show medical evidence that you won't have significantly higher risk of
long term problems if you lengthen over 6cm? I have a decent starting height so proportions would not be an issue here
rather I don't want the problems that go along with a long lengthening.

If someone really wants the maximum "safe" gain in LL procedure I would suggest doing 5cmx2 on femurs with Guichet nail and 5cm on tibs for a total of 15cm.  Since it is 5cm per operation, it is feasible and probably the best and safest way to be 6'' taller!  Not the cheapest tho.

[shortkid]

Ya if I had unlimited money I would do 4cm on femur and 4cm on tibia. I'm scared of proportions looking weird

[G-Man]

I hear ya, but I've never really paid attention to proportions before I discovered LL.  I'd say 99% of the population don't even notice or think about it.

Personally, I always thought that long legs kick ass!! 

[ChrisIsaak]

I did 7 cm on femurs, people didn't even notice. The whole deal about proportions is a load of b.s. Longer legs look better.

[theuprising]

G man if you did 2x5 cm on femur wouldn't that be the same risk as someone
who did 10cm in one go in terms of permanent malignment?

Regarding proportions if someone goes from 170cm to 180cm its pretty hard to tell
but when you see guys who have gone from say 165cm to 180cm you can definitely
tell. Proportions is all about what your starting measurements were.

[G-Man]

G man if you did 2x5 cm on femur wouldn't that be the same risk as someone
who did 10cm in one go in terms of permanent malignment?

Yes, but even 1cm in the femur will cause malalignment.  LL changes brutally your body forever so it is up to you to decide if the benefits outweigh the consequences.

Regarding proportions if someone goes from 170cm to 180cm its pretty hard to tell
but when you see guys who have gone from say 165cm to 180cm you can definitely
tell. Proportions is all about what your starting measurements were.

I say fuk em! 

[GeTs]

Well one is desperate to add inches in height and sees that someone did 6+ successfully then he starts believing its possible, another reason is that they don't want to appear taller or be taller , I mean they want to be taller but more important to reach a number because this is the criteria.
in people's mind the difference between 179 and 180 is huge for the same reason above

[Alu]

Femurs only, and if you are comfortable with the idea of not being able to length your tibia for proportion purposes.

I personally wouldn't even want to go to 6 cm. (I want to do both segments for a gain of 8-10 cm; so around 4-5 cm in each segment)

[patientdad]

My son went 8 cm on femurs and he looks fine.  He is young, no problems to speak of.  He will be walking in another 3 weeks or so.

[Uppland]

You need a bit of luck as each body is different meaning our bodies tolerate LL in different ways.
I have set a target of ''only'' 4 cm for myself (based on my proportions, my frame etc). I believe that if you can improve yourself in other areas like personality, fitness -> muscle etc + a small/safe gain your life will improve in a healthier way than doing 7 cm.

Very good thinking I will do the same thing myself. 4-5 cm should be the standard goal, only patients with favourable ratios and soft tissue adaptation should lengthen more.

[G-Man]

To quote Dr. Jamal, "There is a big resistance of Achilles tendon  after 4,5-5,0 cm of tibias lengthening. There is a big resistance of the hip's muscles after 6,0 - 7,0 cm of femur lengthening."  So staying at 4 for tibs and 5.5 for femurs should be in the safe zone just before problems start.

[microman]

lol you guys sound hilarious with your '4.5cm max' LL operations.

95% of diaries here are 7-8cm in one segment.

'4-5 cm should be the standard goal, only patients with favourable ratios and soft tissue adaptation should lengthen more.'

well i guess that was pretty much everyone then? not one china diary is less than 7cm on the old forum.

[Uppland]

lol you guys sound hilarious with your '4.5cm max' LL operations.

95% of diaries here are 7-8cm in one segment.

'4-5 cm should be the standard goal, only patients with favourable ratios and soft tissue adaptation should lengthen more.'

well i guess that was pretty much everyone then? not one china diary is less than 7cm on the old forum.

They're playing with fire, how many truly successful diaries have you read?

I consider OBG's experienced the absolute minimum to be considered successful.

[Revenge]

Surgery for 4 cm is ridiciluous if ı have to ı will lenghten achil. too

[microman]

They're playing with fire, how many truly successful diaries have you read?

I consider OBG's experienced the absolute minimum to be considered successful.

umm, like... all of them?

[G-Man]

lol you guys sound hilarious with your '4.5cm max' LL operations.

Actually a lot of doctors who did hundreds of LL with hands on experience recommend those limits but I suppose you know better with your severe ballerina.  Just saying that problems may occur if you go over those limits.

It is normal to want the most bang for your buck, I get it but it's at your own risk. The less you lengthen, the less problems you will have, simple logic.

[microman]

dr. says my ballerina is fine and he has had many cases with patients with worse ballerina and they recover fully.

yes my dr. knows much more than you he has 100+ cases, he said hardly anyone stops at 5cm.

on the old forum everyone that went with mitkovic did 7-8cm, one even did 9cm.

you going with guichet right? his average patients lengthening are 6.7cm, by upplands logic none of those people are 'success stories' and they only got that by 'playing with fire' or whatever.

[G-Man]

yes my dr. knows much more than you he has 100+ cases, he said hardly anyone stops at 5cm.
on the old forum everyone that went with mitkovic did 7-8cm, one even did 9cm.

From your own diary: "he said his recomendation is 4cm, but you can do 5cm, he said 80% of patiens can do 5 safely, and 20% should stop at 4cm, he basically implied to not go over 5cm, i was a little dissapointed by this but my safety is paramount."

Also: "He said if you get misalignment say at 4.5cm due to soft tissue you must stop at 4.5cm  "the other patients here said mitkovic said to them that they can go for 5cm, and if 5cm went well do 6cm maximum."

[microman]

after reading all the other diaries it became apparent to me that that was not the case as everyone was doing 7-8cm.

as i said guichet himself has average lengthening rate at 6.8cm, in that regard 4.5cm would be a very below average gain.

as far as mitkovic i didn't type it correctly, i meant it gets harder but not that they actually stop, im at 6.5cm with no complications so far, this is not uncommon as long as you follow what the doctor tells you, someone here got major misaligment at 2.5cm but he was doing 1mm/day and the dr. told him not to do that and that is why he got major misalingment.

here are the main diaries on the old forum, and their gains.
jungle      7   
Summer2008   7    
EM7      7   
cbick66      7.5   
Tbone      7.5   
star trek   8         
George61   8.9   

it speaks for themselves.

[Penguinn]

I would be pretty damn pissed off if I had to stop lengthening at 4 or 5.

At least it's not as bad as people who want to pay thousands and sacrifice time and pain for 0.2cms.

[Alittletooshort]

Do you suffer from ballerina Microman? If so, how bad is it?
How is your walking?

[G-Man]

as long as you follow what the doctor tells you

Well, your own doctor tells you that between 4 and 5 is safe with a maximum of 6.  Implying that over that is not as safe.  Am I missing something here?  Yes you can lengthen 8cm and he will let you, but it won't be as safe.

[microman]

no i typed that wrong as i said, that wasn't the doctor i think that was a patient that said that, mitkovic never said 6cm was maximum at all, only 1 LL doctor on this forum has a 6cm maximum limit.

just read his on faq it says safe limit is 5-7.5cm, also look at the diaries i mentioned, don't look at mine it mentions what other patients said and they have different results, for example someone could have problems at 4cm so they have to stop at 5cm but what i am saying is unless you have problems you don't stop, like you wouldn't stop at 4cm because 1% of patients have a problem at 4.1cm, so in other words you wont pre-emptively stop or create some rule based on someone elses gain.

Daigoro from the old forum had a major problem with dr. betz and only got 2.5cm because of it, but you wouldn't spend £40,000 and stop at 2cm because someone had a big problem at 2.5cm, your viewing this whole thing the wrong way and creating some sort of 'lowest possible limit where you wont get major complication', might as well stop at 1cm because there is no such limit where a major complication could occur.


everything is fine Alittletooshort dr. mitkovic saw me today and said ballerina and knee bending is fine, as well as standing/walking.

i will likely stop at 7cm.

[theuprising]

no i typed that wrong as i said, that wasn't the doctor i think that was a patient that said that, mitkovic never said 6cm was maximum at all, only 1 LL doctor on this forum has a 6cm maximum limit.

Dr Rainer Baumgart :
-In normal proportioned people lengthening of more than 5cm (2 inches) only at the femur or at the tibia creates disproportions, which is not advantageous.  If you want to get more than 5cm (2 inches), it is normally necessary to lengthen femur and tibia simultaneously. With this procedure you can reach 10-15cm (4-6 inches) or even more, but in most cases the relationship to the frame becomes disadvantageous if you lengthen more than about 10cm (4 inches).

Dr Alex Monegal:
-I recommend to use intramedullar devices. We can lengthen up to 8cm in fémur and 6 in tibia. It depends on your current height and the tibio-femoral proportion What i might advice you to lengthen.

Dr Mangal Parihar: 
- Max 6 cms. daily rate 0.75 to 1 mm, depending on pain and muscle tightness.

Dr Janet Conway : 
- The total recommended lengthening is 2 inches (5 cm) in the thigh bone (femur). Lengthening more than 2 inches in one bone is associated with higher complication rates. If desired, another entirely separate lengthening procedure can be performed one year later in the shin bones (tibiae) to gain an additional 2 inches (5 cm) of height.

Dr Franz Birkholtz:
-Functional recovery is multifactorial but we expect high levels of recovery in lengthenings between 5 and 10 cm.  Cosmetically 10cm still keeps people in proportion.  I would aim for 5-6 cm on femur and 4-5 cm on tibia.  Arthritis is probably due to malalignment, but also increased joint pressures.  This seems to be related to the extent of the lengthening as well.

Dr Donghoon Lee: 
- To minimize various complications resulting from limb lengthening, it is recommended that lengthening is performed under 20% of the original bone length, and by an experienced surgeon.  Since the femur is longer than the tibia, generally speaking it is possible to lengthen more when lengthening the femur. However, since the muscles surrounding the femur are very strong, too much lengthening could lead to joint contracture in the hip joint or knee joint, so caution must be taken. According to  Park's report (Park HW et al, JBJS,2008 ) , 25% of the people who lengthen the tibia(6cm in average) was found to have some difficulties in persuing vigorous activity  If both Tibia and Femur are lengthened sequentially, the maximum to be 10cm in total. But, one more important thing is to consider body ratio. So, I recommend to decide the target considering the safety, recovery of sports activity and body ratio.


There is a difference between a doctors recommended amount and the max they will allow. It is not their body and as long as you can perform daily activities it is not their concern your athletic ability has declined or you look weird for example. See Dr Betz for allowing patients to lengthen to the point where they can no longer run.

This surgery is all about trade offs. Guys with taller starting heights have the luxury of being concerned about bio mechanics and proportions which shorter guys don't.