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Author Topic: 13 or 15cm safe  (Read 3827 times)

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TranslatingWithWriting

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #62 on: May 26, 2022, 10:13:38 AM »

You will look like a man walking on stilts.I am yet to see a post ll patient that did 6-7cm+ on one segment that looked 100% natural. 6cm for me, is the upper limit a person can lengthen before starting to look odd. This is solely based on pics and vids of patients post ll. Just to add, starting to look odd does not mean looking bad. Looking bad for me is when patients get to 10 and beyond... never seen someone who lengthened that much that looked good.

Edit: also, the best recoveries I have seen are of people who did a max of 6cm on femurs and 5 on tibs. The videos of Turkish surgeon patients who did more are not reliable in my opinion and user heightjourney who recently posted a video of stretching, can bearly flex his knees beyond 90° degrees and he did 7cm with an excellent surgeon
As far as I am concerned if you wanna go beyond 5-6cm you should consider femurs+tibias otherwise not only will it be dangerous but also singular lengthening over 5-6cm will ruin your leg proportions.
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AimHigh

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #63 on: May 26, 2022, 10:30:34 AM »

Even at 8 cm Fem CLL my Tib./Fem. ratio is way out now (maybe ~.77), this combined with my skinny femurs (48 cm diam)  and thick(ish) calves makes me reluctant to ever be seen in shorts in public. , but 25 mm shoe lifts do help give the impression of longer Tibias and improve the T/F ratio.
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2016 5.3 cm RFem. Fitbone, 2019 8cm LFem. Precice 2.2, 2022 2.9 cm Rfem Precice 2.2

informationispower

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #64 on: May 26, 2022, 10:40:08 AM »

Even at 8 cm Fem CLL my Tib./Fem. ratio is way out now (maybe ~.77), this combined with my skinny femurs (48 cm diam)  and thick(ish) calves makes me reluctant to ever be seen in shorts in public. , but 25 mm shoe lifts do help give the impression of longer Tibias and improve the T/F ratio.

Tibs/fems ratio in my opinion is not so important as we are talking about bones that are 30-45cm long. Every single cm to either the tibs or fems change the ratio (numerically ) by a lot. Basically, every cm beyong 2cm to either will get you out of the normal range. In my opinion legs to upper body and arm length  (which usually correlates with torso length) are the most important factors... look on youtube a "short" posted by mahboubian of a guy who lengthened 8cm on femurs..  he looks horrible
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AimHigh

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #65 on: May 26, 2022, 10:59:11 AM »

I guess I was "lucky" as my sitting height is 93 cm, for me the extra 8 cm (10 cm with lifts) on my legs only improved my Leg/Body ratio, and my wingspan was not too bad at 177 cm.
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ilovescience

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #66 on: May 26, 2022, 02:23:10 PM »

Growing in your 20s is bullsh*t fairytale from prehistoric times...you body   continue grow but wider and internal organs

It is extremely rare but it could happen.

A study suggests it seals ar age of 24 for men. Check this website for the growth bone plate.

https://kidadl.com/fun-facts/when-do-growth-plates-close-delving-into-development
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TranslatingWithWriting

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #67 on: May 26, 2022, 02:34:19 PM »

It is extremely rare but it could happen.

A study suggests it seals ar age of 24 for men. Check this website for the growth bone plate.

https://kidadl.com/fun-facts/when-do-growth-plates-close-delving-into-development
Srsly if you can grow after 24 y.o you should consider to go buy some lotteries since you are that lucky.

Rare rare men grow after 24 y.o and just do LL and call it a day.
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ilovescience

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #68 on: May 26, 2022, 02:41:48 PM »

Srsly if you can grow after 24 y.o you should consider to go buy some lotteries since you are that lucky.

Rare rare men grow after 24 y.o and just do LL and call it a day.

My guess is probably 1 out of every 1000 men can grow after age of 24! It's rare.

I remember that I probably had a friend who grew like an inch in his late 20s. Like at age of 28.

Based on what many said, they told me their growth spurt is around age of 15! Some age of 18!
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Hobbit

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #69 on: May 26, 2022, 07:12:39 PM »

Hopefully 8cm femur + 5cm tibia is safe if not i’ll be so depressed  :'(
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TranslatingWithWriting

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #70 on: May 26, 2022, 07:47:55 PM »

Hopefully 8cm femur + 5cm tibia is safe if not i’ll be so depressed  :'(
of course you are likely to get it but you gotta also be mindful of your own endure, time, money and recovery. I said it did not solely depend on your money.
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ReadRothbard

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #71 on: May 26, 2022, 09:05:18 PM »

I don't know if it has to do with visual effect.

When I approached someone same as my height, if that person is strong or bulk up, I feel he is an inch taller than me.
If he os skinny, I feel like about the same or I am a little taller.

Did you feel the same thing when approaching your friends same as your height?

I feel bigger than almost everyone I meet; the only exceptions are if they're 6+ inches taller and have 30+ lbs of lean mass on me.
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“If you're afraid - don't do it, - if you're doing it - don't be afraid!” ― Genghis Khan

172 cm in the morning (67.8"); 170 cm (67”) at night; Sitting Height: 96 cm (37.8”); Goal: 184.5 cm (6'0.7"); Ultimate Goal: 192 cm (6’3.5) morning height, 190 cm (6’3) “night” height
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ReadRothbard

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #72 on: May 26, 2022, 09:06:22 PM »

Damn... you're ONLY 2 inches shorter than the AVERAGE guy?... I guess that makes you anything but short...

Correct, 1.5-2 inches is pretty tiny. I don't know why you'd think that deficit would make someone "short.
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“If you're afraid - don't do it, - if you're doing it - don't be afraid!” ― Genghis Khan

172 cm in the morning (67.8"); 170 cm (67”) at night; Sitting Height: 96 cm (37.8”); Goal: 184.5 cm (6'0.7"); Ultimate Goal: 192 cm (6’3.5) morning height, 190 cm (6’3) “night” height
Future space tycoon

zaozari

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #73 on: May 26, 2022, 10:36:43 PM »

Again I'll be extremely realistic and I'll say my head is messed up because of my insecurities, sure, I'm not going to try and delude myself like some guys on this thread. Anything below 5ft10 is short and you all know it, I know it hurts but again, deal with it. I'm wearing tall shoes, no insoles, I get to 5ft10 with those and I still feel very short in a country with a 5ft8 average. Don't go nuclear on me, it's not my fault we've all got messed up genetics. If you deny that then why are you here? Go be happy being 5ft8 and below just because the average in some Asian country is 5ft or whatever.

''I'm not going to try and delude myself like some guys on this thread''
With your height and saying this, thinking its the others who are deluding themselves here, you really have more important problems than height: since it's not probably brain sinapses or volume,...wake up, man, go on with your life, find a girl, be happy!
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zaozari

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #74 on: May 26, 2022, 10:44:06 PM »

We can end the pointless discussion and each to their own. I'm gonna take my chance to ask, what are the reasons behind people not doing 10cm femurs? I've seen a guy do it with Betz but all other diaries are like 7-8cm max. IMO, if you're going to pay that much money and go through all that pain and isolation, why not max it out? But then again, this is why I'm asking, there's obviously a reason behind it. I doubt a person doing 8cm wouldn't do 10 if he knew it'd be safe. Is aesthetics the issue then? Or loss of athleticism? Or an increased chance of an injury? I don't care about the first two but the last one is obviously a deal breaker if that's the case.

''if you're going to pay that much money and go through all that pain and isolation, why not max it out?''
Because you get with ridiculous proportions specially if you don't do a mock picture and try several simulated postions, and don't go also for tibias, risking even more... At least that's what a guy that did 10cm in femurs said here in the forum: when he seats in a chair he gets totally weird. When you are in shorts you get your knees ridiculous close to the floor. You can't speak of legs and body like meat or a piece of furniture.
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TranslatingWithWriting

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #75 on: May 26, 2022, 10:46:35 PM »

Correct, 1.5-2 inches is pretty tiny. I don't know why you'd think that deficit would make someone "short.
Excuse me 1 inch = 2.5cm right? I think 5cm is obvious, but as for under 5cm, then yeah it's neglectable.
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zaozari

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #76 on: May 26, 2022, 10:48:50 PM »

Below 1mm per day it is not the bone but rather soft tissue that limits lengthening, immediately post op your femur resembles a large smooth sausage due to swelling, and your knee flexion is lucky to reach 90 degrees,  you must wait at least 4 days for this swelling to subside before lengthening can begin , the next 2-3 weeks are not to bad (only bone growth rate of 1 mm per day is limiting factor) as the femur muscles/fascia and tendons are not under great tension, but then they become the limiting factor as their elastic limits are reached and you enter the painful tearing/ plastic deformation stage.
I was very flexible (pre CLL  at 49 YO had a -21 cm sit reach test), but yes my age (55 now) definitely makes my muscles/tendons more limiting and tighter than a younger person undergoing LL.

You really mean ''Below 1mm per day '' or over 1 mm per day? Over 1mm definitely is more violent for the tissues, no?
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zaozari

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #77 on: May 26, 2022, 10:56:00 PM »

Tibs/fems ratio in my opinion is not so important as we are talking about bones that are 30-45cm long. Every single cm to either the tibs or fems change the ratio (numerically ) by a lot. Basically, every cm beyong 2cm to either will get you out of the normal range. In my opinion legs to upper body and arm length  (which usually correlates with torso length) are the most important factors... look on youtube a "short" posted by mahboubian of a guy who lengthened 8cm on femurs..  he looks horrible

Femurs are already really long bones and they seem even longer because they are directly atached to volumous tissue of tights and glutes and the clothes reinforce this visual effect. A huge amount in femurs aesthetically is worse than in tibias, usually, specially in very short guys, who have already, not only in numeric terms but also relatively short tibias. They would seem really ''mini short'' without big insoles.
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AimHigh

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #78 on: May 26, 2022, 11:03:18 PM »

When consistently lengthening above 1mm per day there is a high risk that osteogenesis (bone growth) might cease (and therefore is the limiting factor) , I think in the first few cm that soft tissue is not too stressed and maybe lengthened beyond 1mm per day but the  bone growth limits distraction to ~ 1mm/day.
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AimHigh

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #79 on: May 26, 2022, 11:21:11 PM »

After 8cm CLL I now have a 54 cm long femur, and that is typical for a 6 2 person, however i only have the reach of a 5 9 person, I notice when driving that I am less comfortable as I have to push my seat further back and my knees almost rest on the front dash (I hate to think what would happen to my kneecaps in case of an accident), whilst my arms are more extended and shoulders more hunched forward to reach the steering wheel.
I also notice airplane/bus/train/movie seats are much tighter for me, not much fun as Australians typically travel long haul to visit other countries - basically I am realising the world is built for an average (maybe 5 10?) person.
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informationispower

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #80 on: May 27, 2022, 07:50:58 AM »

Femurs are already really long bones and they seem even longer because they are directly atached to volumous tissue of tights and glutes and the clothes reinforce this visual effect. A huge amount in femurs aesthetically is worse than in tibias, usually, specially in very short guys, who have already, not only in numeric terms but also relatively short tibias. They would seem really ''mini short'' without big insoles.

Actually no. Clothes make you femurs look shorter than what they really are usually... neither segment can be lengthened too much as it will always  look weird in my opinion. Short men have proportionally shorter legs just as much shorter torso, arms, and neck usually. Most men and women are proportional with 1-3cm difference in the length of the lower limbs and torso.
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ilovescience

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #81 on: May 27, 2022, 03:04:32 PM »

Actually no. Clothes make you femurs look shorter than what they really are usually... neither segment can be lengthened too much as it will always  look weird in my opinion. Short men have proportionally shorter legs just as much shorter torso, arms, and neck usually. Most men and women are proportional with 1-3cm difference in the length of the lower limbs and torso.

Generally shorter men have shorter arms and smaller hands?
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zaozari

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #82 on: May 27, 2022, 04:51:05 PM »

Actually no. Clothes make you femurs look shorter than what they really are usually... neither segment can be lengthened too much as it will always  look weird in my opinion. Short men have proportionally shorter legs just as much shorter torso, arms, and neck usually. Most men and women are proportional with 1-3cm difference in the length of the lower limbs and torso.
It's well established: short people have relatively short members (in relation to torso  neck and head). And short people also usually have shorter tibias (shorter tibias/femurs ratio).
If you say everything is shorter I don't understand any proportion diference.
Regarding femurs and clothing I read it from one orthopaedic doctor and in fact for example when you see a man walking from behind, you notice his tibias/femurs articulation, which is also the distance from the knee to the ground, contrasting visually directly, with a "femur atached continuously with the butt" and even back, with much smoother, low angle articulations / movements. You don't see for example any direct "bending" between femur and part of your trousers in the butt.
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zaozari

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #83 on: May 27, 2022, 04:54:32 PM »

Generally shorter men have shorter arms and smaller hands?
Shorter arms, legs, and usually also hands, specially fingers, yes. Didn't read about feet.
But sometimes  there are variations (diferent fenotypes).
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informationispower

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #84 on: May 27, 2022, 04:57:37 PM »

It's well established: short people have relatively short members (in relation to torso  neck and head). And short people also usually have shorter tibias (shorter tibias/femurs ratio).
If you say everything is shorter I don't understand any proportion diference.
Regarding femurs and clothing I read it from one orthopaedic doctor and in fact for example when you see a man walking from behind, you notice his tibias/femurs articulation, which is also the distance from the knee to the ground, contrasting visually directly, with a "femur atached continuously with the butt" and even back, with much smoother, low angle articulations / movements. You don't see for example any direct "bending" between femur and part of your trousers in the butt.

It is not well established that shorter men have relatively shorter tibias compared to other men. The proportion discussion is that 5cm on a segment is acceptable and can be supported by anyone no matter the starting height. Above that, you need to check how much outside of the average you are. Again this is MY opinion. Too long tibs give you a walking on stilts look while too long fems give you a "goat legs" look.
I just want to repeat that I have never seen a post op pic of someone who lengthened either segment above 6 or both above 9-10 that looked good in MY opinion
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zaozari

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #85 on: May 27, 2022, 05:03:02 PM »

It is not well established that shorter men have relatively shorter tibias compared to other men. The proportion discussion is that 5cm on a segment is acceptable and can be supported by anyone no matter the starting height. Above that, you need to check how much outside of the average you are. Again this is MY opinion. Too long tibs give you a walking on stilts look while too long fems give you a "goat legs" look.
I just want to repeat that I have never seen a post op pic of someone who lengthened either segment above 6 or both above 9-10 that looked good in MY opinion
The proportion discussion you mention is generally correct, altough each body measures and physiological response to LL is different. But the rest, no, you can find sources easily.
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informationispower

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #86 on: May 27, 2022, 05:47:16 PM »

The proportion discussion you mention is generally correct, altough each body measures and physiological response to LL is different. But the rest, no, you can find sources easily.

I searched for sources but couldn't find any. Would be happy if you could share some articles
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MK GoatKoza

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #87 on: May 29, 2022, 08:04:08 AM »


You're not getting my point bro. And yes, I'm definitely short. When I go out in public, I feel like I'm either the same or smaller than the rest of the men. I'm from Bulgaria, Balkans yeah but fortunately the shortest Balkan nation. Can only imagine what our neighbours have to endure.

Friend, you are from Bulgaria? Здраво од Македонија! I'm 172cm and feel similar to you, although I live in Australia (but am from Macedonia, and have been there many times).
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djimbo9

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #88 on: May 30, 2022, 05:21:53 AM »

Friend, you are from Bulgaria? Здраво од Македонија! I'm 172cm and feel similar to you, although I live in Australia (but am from Macedonia, and have been there many times).

Yeah friend. Glad we aren't in Bosnia where 184cm would be fking average lol.
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Hobbit

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #89 on: May 30, 2022, 05:56:42 AM »

Do you feel short in Australia?
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MK GoatKoza

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #90 on: May 30, 2022, 11:14:49 AM »

Do you feel short in Australia?

I live in Melbourne (2nd largest city, over 5 million people), and honestly I can't generalise about how I feel as a whole, as it's dependent on a lot of things like demographics and location. I grew up in the western suburbs of my city, where the demographics are mainly southern Europeans, south east Asians and south Asians. Out of my friend group of around 10 people (18 yr old southern European males), a good 70% of us are within 170-178cm. In my high school (I went to a public, government funded school), most of the boys at age 18 were around my height or a bit taller, with 90% of them being under 6 foot. Most of them also had southern European backgrounds. Growing up during school, I did not feel short at all. Upon entering university in the city centre, I suddenly felt much shorter. Most of the European students are of British origin and are noticeably taller than I am. My university tends to have many Chinese international students too, who are slightly taller than I am.

When I go out in the western suburbs, I don't really feel short due to the demographics of the area. However when I travel to the city centre, go to places where youth from all demographics gather, then yes I feel shorter than average.

One thing to note is, for the past few years a majority of the immigrants have come from China, our city centre is majority populated by Chinese people now. This trend of majority Chinese migration is definitely going to continue for the near future, so you can expect the average height to possibly go down further here.
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ilovescience

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #91 on: May 31, 2022, 02:48:29 AM »

I live in Melbourne (2nd largest city, over 5 million people), and honestly I can't generalise about how I feel as a whole, as it's dependent on a lot of things like demographics and location. I grew up in the western suburbs of my city, where the demographics are mainly southern Europeans, south east Asians and south Asians. Out of my friend group of around 10 people (18 yr old southern European males), a good 70% of us are within 170-178cm. In my high school (I went to a public, government funded school), most of the boys at age 18 were around my height or a bit taller, with 90% of them being under 6 foot. Most of them also had southern European backgrounds. Growing up during school, I did not feel short at all. Upon entering university in the city centre, I suddenly felt much shorter. Most of the European students are of British origin and are noticeably taller than I am. My university tends to have many Chinese international students too, who are slightly taller than I am.

When I go out in the western suburbs, I don't really feel short due to the demographics of the area. However when I travel to the city centre, go to places where youth from all demographics gather, then yes I feel shorter than average.

One thing to note is, for the past few years a majority of the immigrants have come from China, our city centre is majority populated by Chinese people now. This trend of majority Chinese migration is definitely going to continue for the near future, so you can expect the average height to possibly go down further here.

I think there should be lots of people with Chinese background living in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane. They are mostly Chinese, Taiwanese or Singaporean.

How tall do you think the Chinese men are near your area?  By average.

I think if they grew up in Australia, they could be taller than Chinese who came yo Australia when they were adults.
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Hobbit

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Re: 13 or 15cm safe
« Reply #92 on: May 31, 2022, 03:53:39 AM »

That is very true. Asians that grew up in the west tend to be taller than asians that grew up in asia sadly.
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