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[RealLostSoul]

Many patients of Betz did more than 10cm. Even Tall on the old forum did 12cm and he ended up with terrible knee pain due to a completely.off femur tibia ratio, something that Betz never mentioned to him.
He finally did LL in tibias too with Rozbruch or Mahboubian (I don't remeber) just to not end up crippled, although he didn't need the extra height as he was already about 1.87 after his first LL.
And there are many other cases of Betz with much more lengthening than the safe amounts. Yes I don't think he was a good doctor but someone who made his name when only very few doctors did LL, especially in first world countries of Europe. Another example (much worse though) is Guichet, a very expensive doctor with many very bad cases like Unicorn's etc.

I am in the LL world.more than 15 years (and 12 as an LLer) so I really know what I am talking about.
Betz and Guichet are nothing more than overestimated merchants. I don't know about Becker but he must do LLs less than 2-3 years because I haven't heard about him when I was back in the forum about 3 years ago.
And 3 years of.experience for LL is very little.
If he is more experienced than that then its my fault.

Finally, I insist that doing a successful surgery is the most important for LL. Thinking that just putting an im nail is easy and anyone can do it without problems is plain bs. Even more with externals which at least have the opportunity to fix some things after the initial.surgery, especially hexapods.
But with internals the surgery itself is even more than 80% of a successful outcome. With extrernals yes, the post surgery plays some major role.too.
But doctors like Betz and Becker do almost exclusively internals so if the surgery is not excellent then the final.outcome will be problematic for sure, no matter what the patient will do.

Ok first of all yes I can‘t deny that 12 in an isolated surgery is too much. Surely. I am not quite sure if an off femur/tibia ratio causes knee osteoarthritis tbh. Misalignment does it yea but just ratio? Not too sure about that but I would be willing to research that. I think overlengthening will most likely cause balance / movement as well as muscular problems. And a super long recovery.
Second of all, the statement of “he didn’t need extra height”. Are you referring to as he didn’t want to get taller but needed tibia LL to fix it? I am a big believer of starting height doesn’t matter at all. People who choose this have different reasons and backstories. And I somewhat was skeptical myself of doing this for certain reasons but after seeing the faces and hearing the stories of real patients. I definitely changed my mind. Height increase is height increase. No matter where you start and just bc person A does it for reasons A. Person B doesn’t have to do it for the same reasons at all. Anyways I am dwelling off.
I kind of agree with the sentiment about Betz and Guichet but only to a certain degree, as we never heard both sides of the story (for unicorn I do think it is clearly malpractice to the infinite). I will just say this, because I did also hear some bad experience with Dr Betz, a few things. Whatever. Let me just say this, I am very glad I fell under Dr Becker’s regimen at a different location. I think he is more transparent and honest than his companion. 

From what I could gather it is at least 4 years training for orthopedic surgeon after med school. Then another 2 years minimum to be a specialist in a certain field (limb lengthening). I heard he is in with Dr Betz for about 5 years or so. So overall I think he might be doing it for 6-10 years now.
Yes this is definitely not as experienced as many others. I do agree. And I also was skeptical. But after my experience with him I am only positively surprised and if I do tibia again I will choose him. Just my 2cents. I understand that to be established he needs many more years and all, and yes I understand if someone chooses someone else, but I am personally satisfied.

I never said you were not knowledgeable and I know your were active on the old forums. It just goes against me that I read someone write facts as if they were facts but in my experience they are simply not true. (Like Becker only doing orthopedic surgery for 2 or 3 years is simply impossible.)

Yes the surgery is obviously the most IMPORTANT part. If it goes wrong you are screwed. But it’s just one part of the big process. Read again, I said most orthopedic surgeons can install an intramedullary nail. They do it for trauma a lot. Now maybe a special lengthening nail and good osteotomy is a different story. But look here “how to pick a good surgeon”. He admits that a surgeon needs to know more than just the surgery. But how to avoid complications during the process and how to do emergency surgeries etc. And good fibula fixation in tibia etc.
Whatever, if the surgery is good then the outcome will still vary so much by the patient it’s most definitely a big factor. And I also do think a surgeon needs to do checkups and not let a random PT (if there isn’t one close to the team like with Paley) decide about lengthening rate, etc.
Anyways both Betz and Becker are doing excellent jobs at installing the system. But Betz from what I gathered definitely seemed to lack post operative care, that’s why I also have mixed feelings about him.

Also I know u won’t like it but I think nobody should ever do any external method for cosmetic leg lengthening. (That’s my opinion not a fact)

[IceTrae38]

How difficult is clicking with Betzbone and G-nail?

[RealLostSoul]

How difficult is clicking with Betzbone and G-nail?

Beginning it‘s horrible but after a while very easy. Tibia seems to be much easier from the beginning.

[hanshi]

Betz has had a flat, long and bloody learning curve during which he has hurt and crippled many of his customers, a.k.a. patients.
He seems to have become better during recent years though. However as a doctor or even just as a human being he is not trustworthy. I've never met anybody more unscrupulous than him.
In general I would strongly recommend not to do this surgery in Germany due to the extremely bad protection of patient rights there.

[ten]

Betz has had a flat, long and bloody learning curve during which he has hurt and crippled many of his customers, a.k.a. patients.
He seems to have become better during recent years though. However as a doctor or even just as a human being he is not trustworthy. I've never met anybody more unscrupulous than him.
In general I would strongly recommend not to do this surgery in Germany due to the extremely bad protection of patient rights there.

So just USA then?

[hanshi]

So just USA then?

You should check out the jurisdictions. A red flag is definitely if the surgeon and the nail manufacturer are the same person. That's actually not allowed in many, if not most countries.

[Body Builder]

Second of all, the statement of “he didn’t need extra height”. Are you referring to as he didn’t want to get taller but needed tibia LL to fix it?

Also I know u won’t like it but I think nobody should ever do any external method for cosmetic leg lengthening. (That’s my opinion not a fact)

Yes, thats what I am saying. Tall had clearly mentioned in his diary that he didn't want extra height because he was 1.88 after his femur LL amd was completely fine with that (like any sane person). But he did a tibia LL because the american doctors told him that it was the only way to fix his major knee pain that as they mentioned was due to completely off tibia/femur ration.
If it had to do with misalignments then he would have just fixed it. It would have been much easier, cheaper, safer and faster than another LL which added him some extra height he didnt want (about 5-6 cm if I remember right).
And all these due to the insane lengthening that he did with Betz without ever being informed about the huge risk of developing permanent knee problems, something he would have avoided if he lengthened about 8cm but for sure not 12cm as he did!

Finally, you can write your opinion. But still, the most safe way to do LL is external tibias with hexapod. I have written many times why and all the real professional orthopaedic surgeons agree with me because it is way less invasive than internals and it always give you the opportunity to fix any misalignments and in the end to have completely straight bones and only one major surgery and not 2 like it happens with all internal devices.
Externals like the ones I used (monorails) of course are not the best way for LL and I paid the prize with a significant misalignment on my right tibia that I fixed with a titanium plate some years later. But if someone can stand the discomfort a big device like hexapods have, then it is for sure the safest way for LL. In tibias of course because for femurs the only safe way are internals. But even then comparing external tibias with hexapods and internal femurs, the first option will always be the safest.

[RealLostSoul]

Yes, thats what I am saying. Tall had clearly mentioned in his diary that he didn't want extra height because he was 1.88 after his femur LL amd was completely fine with that (like any sane person). But he did a tibia LL because the american doctors told him that it was the only way to fix his major knee pain that as they mentioned was due to completely off tibia/femur ration.
If it had to do with misalignments then he would have just fixed it. It would have been much easier, cheaper, safer and faster than another LL which added him some extra height he didnt want (about 5-6 cm if I remember right).
And all these due to the insane lengthening that he did with Betz without ever being informed about the huge risk of developing permanent knee problems, something he would have avoided if he lengthened about 8cm but for sure not 12cm as he did!

Finally, you can write your opinion. But still, the most safe way to do LL is external tibias with hexapod. I have written many times why and all the real professional orthopaedic surgeons agree with me because it is way less invasive than internals and it always give you the opportunity to fix any misalignments and in the end to have completely straight bones and only one major surgery and not 2 like it happens with all internal devices.
Externals like the ones I used (monorails) of course are not the best way for LL and I paid the prize with a significant misalignment on my right tibia that I fixed with a titanium plate some years later. But if someone can stand the discomfort a big device like hexapods have, then it is for sure the safest way for LL. In tibias of course because for femurs the only safe way are internals. But even then comparing external tibias with hexapods and internal femurs, the first option will always be the safest.

First short thing; like I mentioned. I do not think somebody is too tall or too short to do this. It‘s just made up by people to judge others. I think there is a lot of different backstories, motivations, reasons etc. You can never compare one suffering to the other. And height increase is height increase +X more height is +X more height no matter the starting point.

Okay to his case: I think it must be a unique case because it‘s the first time I ever I heard that femur/tibia ratio ALONE can cause knee degradation down the road. I mean yes it does make sense. But then again, there are quite a lot people that did more than 8, maybe not 12 necessary but still most of them end up being fine. And how again would 5cm tibia fix the ratio? If it is 80:100 then you would need 9.6cm in tibia to balance it out again. Maybe he started already with 0.7 tibia/femur and then got it way out of wack. Idk but it does sound to me like there may have been other underlying issues, but who knows. Was he fine in the end after tibia LL?

I do kind of agree with the last paragraph. Yes from a surgery standpoint external tibias (NOT LON) may be the best. I think that externals have their big downside though especially for cosmetic cases though which is why most top doctors like Paley won’t offer it and advice against. Also the practicality of carrying the frame around for an extended amount of time. I guess for 3 inches tibia it would be like 9 months? That’s a damn long time. Then reduced mobility. Infection risk. Ugly scars. Etc.

[Body Builder]

First short thing; like I mentioned. I do not think somebody is too tall or too short to do this. It‘s just made up by people to judge others. I think there is a lot of different backstories, motivations, reasons etc. You can never compare one suffering to the other. And height increase is height increase +X more height is +X more height no matter the starting point.

Okay to his case: I think it must be a unique case because it‘s the first time I ever I heard that femur/tibia ratio ALONE can cause knee degradation down the road. I mean yes it does make sense. But then again, there are quite a lot people that did more than 8, maybe not 12 necessary but still most of them end up being fine. And how again would 5cm tibia fix the ratio? If it is 80:100 then you would need 9.6cm in tibia to balance it out again. Maybe he started already with 0.7 tibia/femur and then got it way out of wack. Idk but it does sound to me like there may have been other underlying issues, but who knows. Was he fine in the end after tibia LL?

I do kind of agree with the last paragraph. Yes from a surgery standpoint external tibias (NOT LON) may be the best. I think that externals have their big downside though especially for cosmetic cases though which is why most top doctors like Paley won’t offer it and advice against. Also the practicality of carrying the frame around for an extended amount of time. I guess for 3 inches tibia it would be like 9 months? That’s a damn long time. Then reduced mobility. Infection risk. Ugly scars. Etc.

Doing 5-6cm on tibias fixed a lot the ratio, like just doing only 7cm on femurs which is very safe. I only remember that he did one of his tibias first with fully internals and when he finished it he did another LL on his other leg, because he wanted to be mobile. But I don't know if things went fine because I retired from the old forum for many years.

So Paley is against externals now? Because when I did LL Paley always mentioned how superior and safe were Ilizarovs for tibias and used some Taylor Spatian hexapods for LL. Maybe now that precise 2 and generally magnetic nails cost about twice or even more that ts frames he suddenly changed his mind...after all every doctor who performs LL is mainly a merchant. And merchants always want the more momey they can get.

Externals on tibias with hexapods have as.downsides only the discomfort and the scars. For me discomfort is the biggest con (thats why I used monorails) because I never cared about.scars and also they can be minimized with laser.
Infections are always superficial and you can treat them easily with oral antibiotics. With internals, infections are more rare but much more dangerous if they finally happen because they are inside the bone. Also, the risks with embolis, the most dangerous risk of LL, are way bigger with internals.
I am not against doing fully internals femur LL with a good nail though, I am just writing why  fully external tibias with am hexapod is the safest way for LL. But even fully internal femur LL is a good option. Lon on tibias is an unnecessary procedure for me though and of course a recipe of disaster for femurs.

[tallmen]

Doing 5-6cm on tibias fixed a lot the ratio, like just doing only 7cm on femurs which is very safe. I only remember that he did one of his tibias first with fully internals and when he finished it he did another LL on his other leg, because he wanted to be mobile. But I don't know if things went fine because I retired from the old forum for many years.

So Paley is against externals now? Because when I did LL Paley always mentioned how superior and safe were Ilizarovs for tibias and used some Taylor Spatian hexapods for LL. Maybe now that precise 2 and generally magnetic nails cost about twice or even more that ts frames he suddenly changed his mind...after all every doctor who performs LL is mainly a merchant. And merchants always want the more momey they can get.

Externals on tibias with hexapods have as.downsides only the discomfort and the scars. For me discomfort is the biggest con (thats why I used monorails) because I never cared about.scars and also they can be minimized with laser.
Infections are always superficial and you can treat them easily with oral antibiotics. With internals, infections are more rare but much more dangerous if they finally happen because they are inside the bone. Also, the risks with embolis, the most dangerous risk of LL, are way bigger with internals.
I am not against doing fully internals femur LL with a good nail though, I am just writing why  fully external tibias with am hexapod is the safest way for LL. But even fully internal femur LL is a good option. Lon on tibias is an unnecessary procedure for me though and of course a recipe of disaster for femurs.

It takes a lot of time and discomfort is a major problem but yeah fully externals is def safer than internals.

[RealLostSoul]

Doing 5-6cm on tibias fixed a lot the ratio, like just doing only 7cm on femurs which is very safe. I only remember that he did one of his tibias first with fully internals and when he finished it he did another LL on his other leg, because he wanted to be mobile. But I don't know if things went fine because I retired from the old forum for many years.

So Paley is against externals now? Because when I did LL Paley always mentioned how superior and safe were Ilizarovs for tibias and used some Taylor Spatian hexapods for LL. Maybe now that precise 2 and generally magnetic nails cost about twice or even more that ts frames he suddenly changed his mind...after all every doctor who performs LL is mainly a merchant. And merchants always want the more momey they can get.

Externals on tibias with hexapods have as.downsides only the discomfort and the scars. For me discomfort is the biggest con (thats why I used monorails) because I never cared about.scars and also they can be minimized with laser.
Infections are always superficial and you can treat them easily with oral antibiotics. With internals, infections are more rare but much more dangerous if they finally happen because they are inside the bone. Also, the risks with embolis, the most dangerous risk of LL, are way bigger with internals.
I am not against doing fully internals femur LL with a good nail though, I am just writing why  fully external tibias with am hexapod is the safest way for LL. But even fully internal femur LL is a good option. Lon on tibias is an unnecessary procedure for me though and of course a recipe of disaster for femurs.

Well yea I guess it does elevate proportions to a certain extent even if he still will be femur sided. i am still curious if the tibia LL ultimately fixed his knee problems.

Paley does not offer externals for cosmetic and he told me in 2021 that he highly advices against it. Don’t know remember exactly what reasons he gave but definitely scars, having to stay longer. And I think PT is worse to do with externals.
LON is downsides of both methods. If you do LON you put a nail in just like internals. So if you want the benefit of LON over externals than do internals. LON is just able to remove the frames immediately after lengthening but you still have the nail in.

Internals for tibia has the risk of knee related issues because of the nail insertion and also if the doctor doesn’t fixate the fibula it will migrate into nomansland. Overall tibia nailing is definitely more complex than femur one but an expert doctor should be able to do it safely.

Also for fat emboli syndrome. Usually there will always be fat droplets going to the lungs during the reaming of the bone marrow. It can be reduced with ventilation canula but still will happen. It is only a problem once your oxygen saturation goes down the drain. That happens if your lungs are plaqued more than they could naturally tolerate. The more bones you drill the more fat stacks up (which is why quadri shouldn’t be done in one surgery). Anyways, the body is able to deal and resorb the fat naturally with time so a little bit of fat emboli is symptomatic. Fat emboli syndrome (if it becomes symptomatic) requires anything from just a bit of extra oxygen via nosetubes to being rushed to the ICU (to be intubates and ventilated). It can lead to death so yes it’s the worst complication.
People with already weakened lungs are much more likely to develop it. Smokers, vapers, ex covid that damaged the lung, etc. healthy people with good lungs with a good doctor are very unlikely to develop any severe fat emboli syndrome if they do bilateral nailing.
Btw anecdotally, I am unfortunately having small lungs because I had pneumonia in my childhood which lead to my lungs not growing to it’s supposed volume. So I have small lung capacity for my body size. I never smoked or vaped. I learned about that at the pulmonologist when I did a checkup because it did affect me negatively when I did sports. Not in normal life but I could not jogg well and in sport climbing which is endurance based I performed so poorly which led me to bouldering only. Well sucks and I was also worried a lot about fat emboli before surgery but I was fine. Thank god.

(And before anyone again says this is made up bs; I can share sources for what I said above)

[krizza81]

Who would you recommend as someone more affordable? I'm only going for 5cm to femurs.

[Rockstarz5]

In LL you get what you paid, ig you eant cheqp you will get a cheap recovery, also just 5 cm in femur I dont think is worth it, do at least 7 but is up to you. If you look for cheap do LON (external)

[SpeedDialer]

Is Becker the best option for people who can afford him?

Has weight bearing femur and tibia. Betzbone seems to be easier for clicking than gnail probably. Does IT band release.

[Limbfan2020]

@cyborg4life

Please contact Dr. Axel Becker for an interview!

Thanks!

[sphenopetroclival]

In LL you get what you paid

This can be said with respect to any surgery.

[sphenopetroclival]

paying for a ferrari to have some car from a new company that some ferrari mechanics made the plans seems not wise for me.

You are not a vehicle.

[piikachu]

Any reviews for his hair transplantation work? I am planning to get my crown density improved and would love to combine it with my LL procedure. Is it safe to get both procedures at the same time?

[Rockstarz5]

You are joking right?

[piikachu]

Is it unsafe then? sorry I could not think why it would be unsafe to get both done together, as the hair one is a minor op.

[Kintaeryos]

A red flag is definitely if the surgeon and the nail manufacturer are the same person. That's actually not allowed in many, if not most countries.

Damn, isn't that the case with Paley and Precise Max?

[piikachu]

Want to inform here that he is only doing LL nowadays. In the past he did other aesthetic surgeries like hair transplant or tummy tuck. However, it is impossible to be an LL surgeon and not have your entire time filled with this job.

Please don't spread fake news. "Ärzte am alten Zollhof" is the place where he works from and you can read his good feedbacks on all his procedures by him on jameda.de or maps.google.com. Why are you discrediting him for no reason?

One positive refiew from last year is "I had HT done at the end of January by Dr. Becker and his team". (I have posted the English translation of course)

[Rockstarz5]

 Agreed with you, I see a toxic forum and people scared and afraid of everything, even or more the one that didnt done the journey yet,  so a lot of things is up to the patient.. hey im so interested in going with giotikas if you have good information weill appreciated

[piikachu]

Agreed with you, I see a toxic forum and people scared and afraid of everything, even or more the one that didnt done the journey yet,  so a lot of things is up to the patient.. hey im so interested in going with giotikas if you have good information weill appreciated

Sorry I don't know about Giotikas. I am considering Becker to do both hair transplantation and limb lengthening at the same time.

Here is a recent article from Dr Becker about hair transplantation: https:www.gesunder-mann-info.de/einzelhaartransplantation-der-weg-zu-vollerem-haar

He is advocating for single hair transplantation which is an advanced technique which increases the yield of the hair transplant. I think he is an expert in both fields (cosmetic LL and hair transplantation and possibly other cosmetic treatments).

[yuppy]

How much for Betz surgery in Germany?

[piikachu]

How much for Betz surgery in Germany?

I think for hair transplantation: 3€ per graft and so it really depends on how many grafts you require.

and for cosmetic LL 57.000€ for femurs.

[DonBones]

Again who told you he is an apprentice?

Absolutely definitely do not agree with 80% being the surgery itself. Even Paley said in his latest cyborg4life interview quote “most surgeons can install an internal nail- it’s not that difficult. But a good LL doctor knows the process and what to watch an eye out for […]”
Why is that? Considering how long this takes and how much you need to actively train. Everyone I met got the nail in perfectly. The outcomes however varied drastically by one factor: how much the person stretched/trained. I would say 30% is the surgery and 70% is patients compliance. This is why in the US they don‘t let you go home in my opinion. They are afraid of lawsuits so they keep you there and do 7 times a week PT where they force you to train/stretch and if you don‘t go they have it on paper. (Ofc this also is better to have a more consistent outcome in patients, for sure. The downside is the increased price).

Where did I not support my stance with arguments? I literally wrote why I disagree.
And again, I couldn’t disagree more.

Also I don’t see why Betz should be “a bad Dr in the end”, how did you come up with that? You probably read one diary of taller90 who did 11cm (and recovered well).
It’s like me saying: oh yea I heard Giotikas took 7h for femur surgery on one patient. He must be awful. There was a death case: He must be bad at the end. Oh someone got nerve problems, he must be not that good. Oh and remember that Paley patient who’s femur broke in the middle of the day post lengthening? Must be a terrible doctor to allow him to walk lol.  (Echo chamber thoughts like these were why I quit this forum back then).


No, i dont think that way. I think Giotikas is a great option for European doctors. And I also think the death case was the patients fault, bc skipping prescribed medication =noncompliance (and also the reason why you should know the process in and out before you do it in my eyes).

That is inaccurate. He took everything as prescribed and did physio as instructed (in fact, he collapsed on his way to physio). However, at that point Giotikas prescribed blood thinners for a mere two weeks post surgery, which very likely is not enough. My source? A patient who did the surgery at that time (who also posted a diary here) told me, and later Giotikas confirmed it when I spoke to him in London.

Giotikas changed his protocol later, though not immediately so as not to inadvertently admit he is at fault.

I am not saying he is a bad doctor. Having spoken to him twice, my impression was positive. That said, some people here deify him as the best in Europe, which to me seems a little over the top if I am honest.

[Beemer m3]

i think hanging out in germany for 2 months of lengthening would be fun. alot of easy access to food not much like a 3rd world country. but maybe the cost of food is higher here.

[Bagga]

i think hanging out in germany for 2 months of lengthening would be fun. alot of easy access to food not much like a 3rd world country. but maybe the cost of food is higher here.

Cost of living is expensive - transportation, food and accommodation.
Dun complain if you take this option.

[Bagga]

Cost of living is expensive - transportation, food and accommodation.
Dun complain if you take this option.

Dr. Becker is also setting up a centre at Freiburg
All in one building like livelifetaller.
I think it will help to lower the cost.

[lucindaris]

Do you know any details about the centre? Yes, it's quite expensive after surgery so I'd like to do it from my home after initial phase. It's 232 euro per day which makes almost 7k Euro per month.