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[Masteryourlife]

Hi , I'm 23yo and 5'9 .
I recently measured my bones and my femur is 42cm and tibia 37cm (roughly cause I can't swear they are 10/10 accurate but at least close to it) .

I plan to lengthen between 5.5 to 6 cm on my femurs with internal nails (hopefully with stryde in 2023) .

What are your thoughts on that ?

Any former patient with similar stats ? How is your recovery?

I'm intrested in hearing some opinions regarding my LL plan from either former and (actuall) perspective patients .

[thaw1010]

The consensus is that 5.5-6cm on femurs is completely doable.

I'm getting my femur surgery with the Precice nails this June, and am planning to max out the nail at 8cm. A year later I'm getting my tibias done, hopefully to get 6-8cm there. The latter will likely be more difficult.

[Masteryourlife]

The consensus is that 5.5-6cm on femurs is completely doable.

I'm getting my femur surgery with the Precice nails this June, and am planning to max out the nail at 8cm. A year later I'm getting my tibias done, hopefully to get 6-8cm there. The latter will likely be more difficult.

What doctor you planning to with ?
N why not just 8 femur and call it a day ?
5'9 is a good height ; if you have it you might want more or you might be fine , but from 5'6 , I think it's a big jump and a good height  unless you are from sweden or countries with tall avarage heights .

[thaw1010]

What doctor you planning to with ?
N why not just 8 femur and call it a day ?
5'9 is a good height ; if you have it you might want more or you might be fine , but from 5'6 , I think it's a big jump and a good height  unless you are from sweden or countries with tall avarage heights .

It's in the US, I'll let people know the doctor when I start my diary for personal reasons.

My goal is to hit 6ft. My logic is that I would rather just accept and embrace being short instead of going to an entire surgery process to be "average." I want to be above average if I even consider the surgery, which is why I'm doing two operations.

Also, you're 5'9 lol, idk what you're saying bro

[ReadRothbard]

Hi , I'm 23yo and 5'9 .
I recently measured my bones and my femur is 42cm and tibia 37cm (roughly cause I can't swear they are 10/10 accurate but at least close to it) .

I plan to lengthen between 5.5 to 6 cm on my femurs with internal nails (hopefully with stryde in 2023) .

What are your thoughts on that ?

Any former patient with similar stats ? How is your recovery?

I'm intrested in hearing some opinions regarding my LL plan from either former and (actuall) perspective patients .

The consensus is that you should lengthen no more than 20% of your initial limb length--or 15% if you want to be ultra safe and recover quickly.

So, for you, this is 8.4 cm on your femurs and 7.4 cm on your tibias. Or, if you want to lengthen only 15%, then this is 6.3 cm on your femurs and 5.6 cm on your tibias.

[Masteryourlife]

It's in the US, I'll let people know the doctor when I start my diary for personal reasons.

My goal is to hit 6ft. My logic is that I would rather just accept and embrace being short instead of going to an entire surgery process to be "average." I want to be above average if I even consider the surgery, which is why I'm doing two operations.

Also, you're 5'9 lol, idk what you're saying bro

I have my reasons but I always stated that with my look , height has never been an issue with anything .
My job was different from the ones that a normal person would do and the people I met also had different logics so that helped me develope dysphoria at 5'9 .
Not necessarily you will be happy at 5'9 but I was just saying that it is worth considering stopping because mine it's a very personal story/perspective affected by my job and some people around me , which again ,are not common in ppl seeking LL (for what've seen so far) .
I was just saying tho , my opinion will not be your reality regardless but was just a pov worth of thinking on ig.

[thaw1010]

I think we're more similar than you would think. I'm not the average CLL patient either: I'm still in high school surrounded by 5'11-6 peers all around me. I'm not doing this just because I'm shorter than average. I would still want to do this even if I was 5'9 (which is why I'm getting two surgeries). Still, regardless of someone's circumstances, including yours and mine, height dysphoria can justify trying to become taller than average (6' and above).

[ReadRothbard]

I think we're more similar than you would think. I'm not the average CLL patient either: I'm still in high school surrounded by 5'11-6 peers all around me. I'm not doing this just because I'm shorter than average. I would still want to do this even if I was 5'9 (which is why I'm getting two surgeries). Still, regardless of someone's circumstances, including yours and mine, height dysphoria can justify trying to become taller than average (6' and above).

I'm specifically doing it to try and be tall.

[Masteryourlife]

Yes of course even just the desire of being taller then avarage or simply tall can justify this surgery if that desire it's big enough and there is enough knowledge of the process/possible complications.

Looking forward to follow your diary @five_six since you are the one who will undergo this surgery first .

[Sambollio]

The consensus is that you should lengthen no more than 20% of your initial limb length--or 15% if you want to be ultra safe and recover quickly.

So, for you, this is 8.4 cm on your femurs and 7.4 cm on your tibias. Or, if you want to lengthen only 15%, then this is 6.3 cm on your femurs and 5.6 cm on your tibias.

Thank you! This forum needs to reincorporate percentages over flat numbers. If someone is very short their lengthening might be 2cm less than their taller counterparts equivalent length when going off of percentage of original bone length.

[ilovescience]

Thank you! This forum needs to reincorporate percentages over flat numbers. If someone is very short their lengthening might be 2cm less than their taller counterparts equivalent length when going off of percentage of original bone length.

Sorry I am a little confused here. Do you mean taller people have more potential to lenghten 2 cm more than snorter people on legs?

[Masteryourlife]

Sorry I am a little confused here. Do you mean taller people have more potential to lenghten 2 cm more than snorter people on legs?

He means that taller people can lengthen more because they have longer bones .
A person with a longer bone can lengthen more and have the same result as a shorter person apparently lenghetning more conservatively.

[ReadRothbard]

Thank you! This forum needs to reincorporate percentages over flat numbers. If someone is very short their lengthening might be 2cm less than their taller counterparts equivalent length when going off of percentage of original bone length.

Yes, I've been trying to take the forum more in that direction; I also think we need to abandon the idea of safe limits to a degree. There's no such thing as a "safe" limit for ll; any ll can be potentially dangerous, and that danger increasing exponentially past those percentage limits I posted. Theoretically, someone can lengthen 25% of both their segments and be fine--but it's like playing Russian Roulette.

[ilovescience]

He means that taller people can lengthen more because they have longer bones .
A person with a longer bone can lengthen more and have the same result as a shorter person apparently lenghetning more conservatively.

Thank you for explaining. That could be the reason why many tall guys want to do LL. They benefit from it a lot.

[ReadRothbard]

I don't think tall people generally go for LL unless they're short in comparison to their family imo.

[ilovescience]

Yes, I've been trying to take the forum more in that direction; I also think we need to abandon the idea of safe limits to a degree. There's no such thing as a "safe" limit for ll; any ll can be potentially dangerous, and that danger increasing exponentially past those percentage limits I posted. Theoretically, someone can lengthen 25% of both their segments and be fine--but it's like playing Russian Roulette.

LL nowadays is safer than it was 10 years ago I believe. Maybe in future that safe limit shouldn't be a problem as doctors master their skills in LL, or with the help of regenerative medicine.

[zaozari]

LL nowadays is safer than it was 10 years ago I believe. Maybe in future that safe limit shouldn't be a problem as doctors master their skills in LL, or with the help of regenerative medicine.

The problem won't be to find how to produce more bone or how to lenghten more.
The issue is the physiological, biological and biomechamics natural limits. The body is a fully integrared organism, not a mechanic machine. If one grows too much, organs may face disproportional challenges, for example heart will have to pump more blood and quicker, bone marrow will have to produce more blood, nerve coordination may be changed, feet and iliac bones may be too stressed, tendons more subject to tendinitis, all sorts of problems impossible to foresee may happen.

[Masteryourlife]

The problem won't be to find how to produce more bone or how to lenghten more.
The issue is the physiological, biological and biomechamics natural limits. The body is a fully integrared organism, not a mechanic machine. If one grows too much, organs may face disproportional challenges, for example heart will have to pump more blood and quicker, bone marrow will have to produce more blood, nerve coordination may be changed, feet and iliac bones may be too stressed, tendons more subject to tendinitis, all sorts of problems impossible to foresee may happen.

Agree , there will ,maybe,be a safer and slower way to lengthen without having pre-consolidation havig less soft tissues problems but other then that...our body it's not designed to allow massive changes so there will always be some limits with LL .
For the moment,  I just wished there was a "biofeedback" as Paley anticipated was gonna be integrated in the next gen nails,allowing us n surgeons to know what is going on inside and an authomated lenghetning process that lengthens when the muscles are ready to and calculates times between lengthening sessions to maximize soft tissues recovery but minimize chances of bone pre consolidations .
Paley ready anticipated that but given the Stryde recall,  I can't wait 5 more years ..but future LLers might have that luck and I believe that it's the max we can wish for our generation.

[Shogun]

According to my mock ups, savings and the extreme time i can put into this I would lengthen 15-16cm and be happy, and leave this chapter of life behind me. Still being online in forum ofc every now and then.
That would take me from 5'6 to lil above 6 feet. I dont count shoes or my hair just natural standing height.

Sad part is that I won't be getting it for a couple of years since I am working on myself in different aspects of life. Tho LL will come true and once it will I will be here to describe it all, humerus as well.

[ilovescience]

According to my mock ups, savings and the extreme time i can put into this I would lengthen 15-16cm and be happy, and leave this chapter of life behind me. Still being online in forum ofc every now and then.
That would take me from 5'6 to lil above 6 feet. I dont count shoes or my hair just natural standing height.

Sad part is that I won't be getting it for a couple of years since I am working on myself in different aspects of life. Tho LL will come true and once it will I will be here to describe it all, humerus as well.

Thanks to our better understanding of how LL should be done, 16cm of height gain shouldn't be a problem for now. Your height isn't short though. If you come to Asia some people may think you are little taller. Lots of men between 5'6 to 5'7 in some places of the Asia.

[ReadRothbard]

According to my mock ups, savings and the extreme time i can put into this I would lengthen 15-16cm and be happy, and leave this chapter of life behind me. Still being online in forum ofc every now and then.
That would take me from 5'6 to lil above 6 feet. I dont count shoes or my hair just natural standing height.

Sad part is that I won't be getting it for a couple of years since I am working on myself in different aspects of life. Tho LL will come true and once it will I will be here to describe it all, humerus as well.

Measure your femur and tibial lengths first (you can find videos on how to do so on youtube), and please don't lengthen more than 20% of your initial bone lengths.

[zaozari]

Thank you! This forum needs to reincorporate percentages over flat numbers. If someone is very short their lengthening might be 2cm less than their taller counterparts equivalent length when going off of percentage of original bone length.

No, we still should go on considering both percentages and absolute lenght in cm.
It's a technical medical issue, not for us to decide.
Because there is a part of lenghtening that "obeys" to biological "flat" trends of osteogenesis in adult bones. For some reason most scientific articles mention centimeters of lenght including or not initial height. Most doctors have cm as reference, for example, Paley atempts to lenghten tibias 5 cm (as others 7 cm) regardless of initial height (and of course taking into account individual biological response).
At the same time, consequently or not, more than 20% is not acceptable by all serious surgeons for healthy patients.
Of course imagining duplicating lenght of bones, muscles, nerves and tendons is biologically and anatomically absurd (except when it's done in big trauma and some forms of nanism).

[ReadRothbard]

No, we still should go on considering both percentages and absolute lenght in cm.
It's a technical medical issue, not for us to decide.
Because there is a part of lenghtening that "obeys" to biological "flat" trends of osteogenesis in adult bones. For some reason most scientific articles mention centimeters of lenght including or not initial height. Most doctors have cm as reference, for example, Paley atempts to lenghten tibias 5 cm (as others 7 cm) regardless of initial height (and of course taking into account individual biological response).
At the same time, consequently or not, more than 20% is not acceptable by all serious surgeons for healthy patients.
Of course imagining duplicating lenght of bones, muscles, nerves and tendons is biologically and anatomically absurd (except when it's done in big trauma and some forms of nanism).

People usually cite cm for the simple reason that most of the site falls within a certain ranges of height (5'4'5'8 or so), and most people have certain ratios between their tibias and femurs.

[Shogun]

Measure your femur and tibial lengths first (you can find videos on how to do so on youtube), and please don't lengthen more than 20% of your initial bone lengths.

Time won't be a problem for me. I can take 2 years off if i have to.Any therapies or whatever exercises to achieve my goal safely and slowly. As soon as i feel my nerves hurting, tendons being tight or whatever, lengthening slows down and hard physiotherapy will do the work. I am a person who believes *slow and study wins the race*.

[zaozari]

People usually cite cm for the simple reason that most of the site falls within a certain ranges of height (5'4'5'8 or so), and most people have certain ratios between their tibias and femurs.

I meant research articles, websites of surgeons and my personal contacts with them, not this forum particularly....But I am not saying it's wrong the percentage approach. I just think, from those sources, that the more correct approach seems to be "mixed" and case by case, while respecting certain generalizations such as the 20% "rule".

[Masteryourlife]

I think that following blindly some rules it's kinda like trying to convince yourself that you did it all to stay safe by following medical "guidelines" ,in order to justify bigger amounts of lengthening.
In reality,  LL it's not that new , but CLL is and n LL discrepancy patient even with loss of athletic ability would be way better if they have equaly long legs , while for CLL patients it's not the same thing ,at all,so same stats do not apply to us .
Also I said in so many times but people seems to not wanna hear it : Not even 10 years ago doctors lengthened tibia more then femur and safe limits were what we would consider foolish today .

A guy in this forum lengthened 9 cm with betz and he was 5'8 (don't remember his nickname) .
He lost so much of its leg power and he has limitations when it comes to sports,strength etc.
He was not a dwarf with 10cm femurs , but he still got a bad outcome and he was probably just SLIGHLY over the 20% of his femur length.
Let's say he did 8 or 8.5 cm ...result would have been the same !
He wished he stopped the lengthening at 5 or 6 cm I believe ... and his story should teach us since he did us the favour to share it .
I really don't care what some unknown ppl around the world
Will do with their legs , but their bad outcome sometimes harms this community because they refuse to tell the story as it is and keep blaming other factors of the procedure and we all get scared and anxious when we do not know the real backgrounds .
Idk how ppl here can believe more to stats then ACTUALL former patients but whatever ..Like zaozari said , it's ok to focus on % but to a certain degree.

[HateLAPELoveSTEM]

I will give Paley's Option 5 a try if failed or couldn't achieve my goal I would kill myself

[Masteryourlife]

I will give Paley's Option 5 a try if failed or couldn't achieve my goal I would kill myself

Can you stop?

We got it , you would ; hope Paley can help you !
And if he can't there is always betz ,guichet n giotikas who use albizza based nails and almost cripple people with 10 cm femur ; add to that 6 cm tibia with another good doctor and u got 16 cm ,congrats !

People at 5'7 aim at 5'9 and are super happy with it but nope , you want to be tall from 5'5 ( that s ur height I believe) or you would kill yourself as if you knew what being avarage feels like but we already discussed that so u have Paley and some  butchers around who would not interfeer with your psychological problem and will lengthen you to ur desire .

[ReadRothbard]

I think that following blindly some rules it's kinda like trying to convince yourself that you did it all to stay safe by following medical "guidelines" ,in order to justify bigger amounts of lengthening.
In reality,  LL it's not that new , but CLL is and n LL discrepancy patient even with loss of athletic ability would be way better if they have equaly long legs , while for CLL patients it's not the same thing ,at all,so same stats do not apply to us .
Also I said in so many times but people seems to not wanna hear it : Not even 10 years ago doctors lengthened tibia more then femur and safe limits were what we would consider foolish today .

A guy in this forum lengthened 9 cm with betz and he was 5'8 (don't remember his nickname) .
He lost so much of its leg power and he has limitations when it comes to sports,strength etc.
He was not a dwarf with 10cm femurs , but he still got a bad outcome and he was probably just SLIGHLY over the 20% of his femur length.
Let's say he did 8 or 8.5 cm ...result would have been the same !
He wished he stopped the lengthening at 5 or 6 cm I believe ... and his story should teach us since he did us the favour to share it .
I really don't care what some unknown ppl around the world
Will do with their legs , but their bad outcome sometimes harms this community because they refuse to tell the story as it is and keep blaming other factors of the procedure and we all get scared and anxious when we do not know the real backgrounds .
Idk how ppl here can believe more to stats then ACTUALL former patients but whatever ..Like zaozari said , it's ok to focus on % but to a certain degree.

I generally agree, but like I said, we should treat 20% as a hard limit, and really 15% is much better. And ofc, these are just guidelines; I agree that you should focus on your own situation, your own body's reaction, and most importantly, your own doctor's advice.