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[sixfootandhalf]

Almost unianimously, everyone who has had excellent surgeries from Betz on here, have flown to greece for an iTB release, and have commented on the massive difference and improvement due to the ITB release.

Everyone offers it now, and while stretching will always remain so key, ITB releases are essential once you lengthen higher ammounts. There is just way too much raw data to support this.

[lessthanavg8300]

Tight IT bands cause duck ass in the sense that you need to position yourself with your ass out to compensate for them being short to stand up.  But its sort of a choice.  You can stand with super wide legs without duck ass, or legs close together with duck ass.

Tight hip flexors and quads probably cause duck ass that you dont get to choose.  Even if you widen your legs its still there.  I havent experienced this yet but I can definitely see this.

So it just depends how you look at it.  They both cause it in different ways.

[Jaki19]

Is the it band also stretched when doing tibias? In theory it should, since the it band goes through the whole leg right?

[RealLostSoul]

Tight IT bands cause duck ass in the sense that you need to position yourself with your ass out to compensate for them being short to stand up.  But its sort of a choice.  You can stand with super wide legs without duck ass, or legs close together with duck ass.

Tight hip flexors and quads probably cause duck ass that you dont get to choose.  Even if you widen your legs its still there.  I havent experienced this yet but I can definitely see this.

So it just depends how you look at it.  They both cause it in different ways.

No that‘s not how it works. When your it band is tight you are physically unable to close your legs when having them straight (standing or lying), only when you bend your knees it will be possible. Trust me I was at this point where I couldn‘t close my legs and it‘s not a choice at all. 
Duckass that doesn‘t go away no matter what is from quads and hip flexors like you described. And seeing him walk I do think that it band might play a role in his gait especially since he did not get it released.

Is the it band also stretched when doing tibias? In theory it should, since the it band goes through the whole leg right?

No it does not. Tibia will result in foot drop (can‘t put your heel down). And that can also cause backpain similar to duckass but it‘s a different root problem. Wide legs /it band issues is not a thing with tibia

[lessthanavg8300]

Bud, Im literally doing the lengthening....I understand how it works.  Your ass needs to go out to completely close your legs if you have mild wide legs.  It sounds like you had something more severe.

But as I mentioned and we agree on: hip flexors and quads are definitely what causes duck ass in a way where you cant shift your position to fix it.

If you want to solve duck ass while walking normally with legs close together, you really need to solve both hip flexors and IT bands.

[RealLostSoul]

Bud, Im literally doing the lengthening....I understand how it works.  Your ass needs to go out to completely close your legs if you have mild wide legs.  It sounds like you had something more severe.

But as I mentioned and we agree on: hip flexors and quads are definitely what causes duck ass in a way where you cant shift your position to fix it.

If you want to solve duck ass while walking normally with legs close together, you really need to solve both hip flexors and IT bands.

You specifically didn‘t want to get an It band release right?

Also in my case since at the end of lengthening i have had no wide legs and free range of motion in the lateral movement (crossing my legs no problem etc) but duckass regardless in what position(no difference if i have my legs together or apart… Unless sitting which bends the knees thus shorten the hip flexor and therefore fixing it). It‘s been a bitch to get rid off tbh. Takes much longer than I thought.

[lessthanavg8300]

Nah I got the IT soft release.  I do get tight IT bands but its manageable so far.  I have to work at it though.

Yeah it sounds like the hip flexors and/or quads got you.  If you go to one knee and bend backwards, this stretch just doesnt loosen up the flexors anymore?  Or is more quads or both?

[RealLostSoul]

Nah I got the IT soft release.  I do get tight IT bands but its manageable so far.  I have to work at it though.

Yeah it sounds like the hip flexors and/or quads got you.  If you go to one knee and bend backwards, this stretch just doesnt loosen up the flexors anymore?  Or is more quads or both?

Both for me. And even though i stretch a lot the progress is veeery slow. I hate it. It‘s the biggest factor holding me back.

[hippo60]

Both for me. And even though i stretch a lot the progress is veeery slow. I hate it. It‘s the biggest factor holding me back.

Obviously hypothetical, but if you knew this in advance - would you lengthen less?

[RealLostSoul]

Obviously hypothetical, but if you knew this in advance - would you lengthen less?

Can‘t say for sure. I‘ve seen people that did less and also have it. I think the amount where I wouldn‘t have had it at all would be too little for me to do the surgery in the first place.
The thing is for me it‘s not noticeable with any clothings (it‘s less than stand taller now for example) but even if it‘s slightly there you get backpain when walking for longer. So that‘s the main culprit. If that goes away which I think it will in a few weeks I am pretty good and can call myself recovered for everyday life.
So in the end I am happy with my decisions and wouldn‘t change anything. I am still very early in consolidation.

If for whatever reason it stays for longer, lets say many months or perhaps years then definitely YES. It‘s pretty awful and the backpain is hindering in recovery (could walk much longer but need to quit it soon every single day bc my lower back hurts too much)

[hippo60]

Can‘t say for sure. I‘ve seen people that did less and also have it. I think the amount where I wouldn‘t have had it at all would be too little for me to do the surgery in the first place.
The thing is for me it‘s not noticeable with any clothings (it‘s less than stand taller now for example) but even if it‘s slightly there you get backpain when walking for longer. So that‘s the main culprit. If that goes away which I think it will in a few weeks I am pretty good and can call myself recovered for everyday life.
So in the end I am happy with my decisions and wouldn‘t change anything. I am still very early in consolidation.

If for whatever reason it stays for longer, lets say many months or perhaps years then definitely YES. It‘s pretty awful and the backpain is hindering in recovery (could walk much longer but need to quit it soon every single day bc my lower back hurts too much)

Got it! When did you finish lengthening?

[sixfootandhalf]

I'm going to be getting a more agressive ITB release, not quite a full ITB release, but i've asked for deeper cuts and more of them in my ITB band. I've asked for this to be as aggressive as possilble, i don't mind reduced mobility anyway, if it means the ITB bands won't be super, super tight.

Everyone who has lengthened over 7cm has flown to greece to get Giotikas to cut their ITB, and unanimously in 5, 6, 7, diaries there is significant improvement once the ITB is cut.

I get for a weight bearing nail you do not want to do the full release immediately, but imo, i am going to get them to kindly go as aggressive as possible.

Stretching will always remain the most important part no doubt.

[sixfootandhalf]

Nah I got the IT soft release.  I do get tight IT bands but its manageable so far.  I have to work at it though.

Yeah it sounds like the hip flexors and/or quads got you.  If you go to one knee and bend backwards, this stretch just doesnt loosen up the flexors anymore?  Or is more quads or both?

your progress is stunning,

If you could go back and get a more aggressive soft ITB release, i.e. more cuts, deeper cuts, (not the full ITB mind) would you have considered it?

[RealLostSoul]

Got it! When did you finish lengthening?

2 weeks ago. The other leg a bit over a week ago (fixed small discrepancy at the end).

[hippo60]

2 weeks ago. The other leg a bit over a week ago (fixed small discrepancy at the end).

ha ok, you weren't kidding about being early in consolidation 

[Stand taller]

Looks like you guys have been at it a little back and forth about IT-band and hip flexors, so I'll try to answer generally. A tight It-band will primarily cause wide legs, and tight hip flexors will primarily cause duck ass. And note that I am writing primarily, and that is because it is all connected and people are different. In my case I did have wide legs up until 5-6cm, but stretching helped me get rid of it almost 100% and it hasn't been an issue since. But that does not mean my it-band has not been tight, closing my legs the last 10-15cm has required effort - but closing them has not been an issue since 6-7cm lengthening.

Somebody wrote that duck ass can be reduced by opening your legs, and I have also experienced this. This is why lately I have been focusing on stretching my hip flexors as much as possible with my legs closed. This had resulted in there almost being no difference in my duck ass while standing wide or closing my legs. So it does seem like most of my limitation in ROM and duckass is now in my hip flexors.

The whole time I have been consulting with Dr Becker and he has always said that an it-band release would help a little bit, but that focusing on stretching hip flexors would be a better use of my resources. He has never recommended me doing the it-band release, but when asked he can do it for 7000 Euro. Considering my progress since I stopped using crutches and especially the past few weeks I honestly think that the days in hospital for surgery, the time it takes to travel back and forth, and the recovery time after - at this point in time I would probably get just a good results doing what I have been doing lately. I'm feeling good progress daily and in the past week all tension in my right it-band is almost gone, but there is still a little left in my left leg. In other words, I am probably just a week or two away from having to use zero effort in closing my legs.

Should I have gotten the it-band release earlier? I am frankly not sure how much it would have helped. Do I feel I should get it now? Not at all, because as I've been saying for weeks. My progress lately has been really good.

[Stand taller]

I'm thinking about getting IT-ban release as I feel like my tight it band is a major contributor of my duck ass. Gonna try focusing more on IT.band stretches in the weeks to come, and hopefully I can resolve my tight IT-band with stretching. And before you say "IT-band does not cause duck ass", no.... not alone. I can stand fairly straight with my legs spread a little, but once I close them so my feet are touching my duck ass get much worse. So at least they are interconnected and the tight IT-band makes it worse. Another thing is when I stretch my IT-band I can stand much more upright which in turn allows me to stretch my hip flexors in a whole different way. So there is no doubt in my mind that tight IT-band makes duck ass much worse because it limits how much you can stretch your hip flexors.

If you have personally had these issues and did an IT-band release please share you experience here, and if you didn't do a release - share your story on what worked and how long it took.

Becker can do it for 5000 Euro and two days in hospital. Are there any other alternatives and what would they cost?

[hippo60]

Curious what made you change your mind? Few days ago you seemed pretty against that idea, and also quoted a different price as well...

[Stand taller]

Curious what made you change your mind? Few days ago you seemed pretty against that idea, and also quoted a different price as well...

First price I quoted was wrong, I just remembered the wrong amount. I think because I am experiencing such good progress lately, I also feel I haven't had much progress in my IT-band when I started thinking about it. And I actually feel that my IT-band is the one major thing "holding" or will "hold" my further progress back. So instead of hindsight in a few months, I started thinking about maybe doing it now instead of in 3 months.

And also the fact that both people here and my PT have said that duck ass is not because of IT-band I've been like "okay then". But I also see that when I close my legs my duck ass worsens, so obviously they are very much related. So I don't know man... I am not sure why or even what to do....

[lessthanavg8300]

First price I quoted was wrong, I just remembered the wrong amount. I think because I am experiencing such good progress lately, I also feel I haven't had much progress in my IT-band when I started thinking about it. And I actually feel that my IT-band is the one major thing "holding" or will "hold" my further progress back. So instead of hindsight in a few months, I started thinking about maybe doing it now instead of in 3 months.

And also the fact that both people here and my PT have said that duck ass is not because of IT-band I've been like "okay then". But I also see that when I close my legs my duck ass worsens, so obviously they are very much related. So I don't know man... I am not sure why or even what to do....

I bet it helps.  If you're struggling you might as well.

[Siegfried]

5000€ seems very expensive. IT-Band release is a pretty standard surgery, so I would recommend doing it with a standard orthopedic surgeon somewhere else in Germany. You should be able to do it for half the price.

[hippo60]

First price I quoted was wrong, I just remembered the wrong amount. I think because I am experiencing such good progress lately, I also feel I haven't had much progress in my IT-band when I started thinking about it. And I actually feel that my IT-band is the one major thing "holding" or will "hold" my further progress back. So instead of hindsight in a few months, I started thinking about maybe doing it now instead of in 3 months.

And also the fact that both people here and my PT have said that duck ass is not because of IT-band I've been like "okay then". But I also see that when I close my legs my duck ass worsens, so obviously they are very much related. So I don't know man... I am not sure why or even what to do....

It's interesting to go back to the first page of your diary. A couple of people mentioned that 10-11cm is a lot and LegendKiller also talked about his IT band which Betz refused to release and he ended up doing it with someone else.

Are you in the US/EU? If you're not sure, I strongly suggest consulting with another doctor. I'm biased but maybe you can consult (even remotely) with Rozbruch? Will probably be a good investment. I don't have the link but there is a Betz diary/post here about someone who had very tight IT band and hip flexors and Betz refused to do anything and Rozbruch released both.

[RealLostSoul]

It's interesting to go back to the first page of your diary. A couple of people mentioned that 10-11cm is a lot and LegendKiller also talked about his IT band which Betz refused to release and he ended up doing it with someone else.

Are you in the US/EU? If you're not sure, I strongly suggest consulting with another doctor. I'm biased but maybe you can consult (even remotely) with Rozbruch? Will probably be a good investment. I don't have the link but there is a Betz diary/post here about someone who had very tight IT band and hip flexors and Betz refused to do anything and Rozbruch released both.

IT band surgery is very easy most surgeons can do that no need to spent thousands of dollars to travel far away and do it at a place of expensive health care when your local hospital probably has someone do it for you.

Also can you even release hip flexors? I doubt it and my PT told me that‘s one muscle that‘s not operated on. You would need to go through the intestines or from the back to access it right? Both terrible. Maybe endoscopically but even that sounds unrealistic.

First price I quoted was wrong, I just remembered the wrong amount. I think because I am experiencing such good progress lately, I also feel I haven't had much progress in my IT-band when I started thinking about it. And I actually feel that my IT-band is the one major thing "holding" or will "hold" my further progress back. So instead of hindsight in a few months, I started thinking about maybe doing it now instead of in 3 months.

And also the fact that both people here and my PT have said that duck ass is not because of IT-band I've been like "okay then". But I also see that when I close my legs my duck ass worsens, so obviously they are very much related. So I don't know man... I am not sure why or even what to do....

I can only speak from my experience . I had initial IT band release though, if you didn‘t have that you would benefit from it. Maybe try the it band stretch I talked about earlier and holding for 3 minutes per side. 3 reps per side and 3 sessions per day in total. You probably know it anyways but yea.
My duckass is not related to how I have my legs. I close them normally it requires no effort and is like before. Only thing is tight hip flexors but past few days it‘s been getting better. My PT sees progress. I can sleep on my stomach now without pain.

[Stand taller]

IT band surgery is very easy most surgeons can do that no need to spent thousands of dollars to travel far away and do it at a place of expensive health care when your local hospital probably has someone do it for you.

Also can you even release hip flexors? I doubt it and my PT told me that‘s one muscle that‘s not operated on. You would need to go through the intestines or from the back to access it right? Both terrible. Maybe endoscopically but even that sounds unrealistic.

I can only speak from my experience . I had initial IT band release though, if you didn‘t have that you would benefit from it. Maybe try the it band stretch I talked about earlier and holding for 3 minutes per side. 3 reps per side and 3 sessions per day in total. You probably know it anyways but yea.
My duckass is not related to how I have my legs. I close them normally it requires no effort and is like before. Only thing is tight hip flexors but past few days it‘s been getting better. My PT sees progress. I can sleep on my stomach now without pain.

What's the IT-band stretch you recommend? I've started doing one now, 3min per side, and been really sore the past few days. So seems like I am working the right area, so I'll increase the reps as the days go. As I do more IT-band stretches I am also reaching new parts of my hip flexors while stretching and they seem to be responding well. So we'll see how the next few weeks go, and I'll make a decision then.

And for those wondering, I am in northern Europe. I would love to do it locally, but traveling to Germany or other places in Europe is just an hour or two on a plane, so that's no stress.

[hippo60]

IT band surgery is very easy most surgeons can do that no need to spent thousands of dollars to travel far away and do it at a place of expensive health care when your local hospital probably has someone do it for you.

Also can you even release hip flexors? I doubt it and my PT told me that‘s one muscle that‘s not operated on. You would need to go through the intestines or from the back to access it right? Both terrible. Maybe endoscopically but even that sounds unrealistic.

Maybe, personally I'm not interested in just having "someone do it for me" but each to his own.

Honestly I'm not 100% sure it was the hip flexors, I can try to ask him 

[sixfootandhalf]

I have to say I admire your dedication and work ethics and betz and becker are some  of the best in the world.

But I am still so shocked you haven't gotten an ITB release:

"
I think RB and dreamingcloud were both recently clinically diagnosed to not being able to recover their normal functions unless an ITB release was performed. This is definitely not them feeling bad about wide legs and looking for an easy way out.

Betz would first prescribe several months more of PT, and then proceed to ignore the patient. He has not replied to my first 6-week x-ray email for 6 days.

I believe Betz has good intentions in not wanting to release ITB, since too much release can lead to permanent problems. However, since the band is just a fibrious tissue, it cannot stretch. For some people, their tensor fasciae latae muscle simply cannot stretch for the full length of their lengthened femurs."

dremaingcloud (Feb 2021): http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=66226.msg188865#msg188865
 Logged

[sixfootandhalf]

What's the IT-band stretch you recommend? I've started doing one now, 3min per side, and been really sore the past few days. So seems like I am working the right area, so I'll increase the reps as the days go. As I do more IT-band stretches I am also reaching new parts of my hip flexors while stretching and they seem to be responding well. So we'll see how the next few weeks go, and I'll make a decision then.

And for those wondering, I am in northern Europe. I would love to do it locally, but traveling to Germany or other places in Europe is just an hour or two on a plane, so that's no stress.

You lengthened a huge ammount , wow !

I would honestly say you should speak to a specialist about getting an ITB release.

[RealLostSoul]

What's the IT-band stretch you recommend? I've started doing one now, 3min per side, and been really sore the past few days. So seems like I am working the right area, so I'll increase the reps as the days go. As I do more IT-band stretches I am also reaching new parts of my hip flexors while stretching and they seem to be responding well. So we'll see how the next few weeks go, and I'll make a decision then.

And for those wondering, I am in northern Europe. I would love to do it locally, but traveling to Germany or other places in Europe is just an hour or two on a plane, so that's no stress.

https://imgur.com/a/aI9ZsvF
Do this. Only effective stretch.
If it’s not getting better in a few weeks do the release.

Maybe, personally I'm not interested in just having "someone do it for me" but each to his own.

Honestly I'm not 100% sure it was the hip flexors, I can try to ask him 

 there are thousands of qualified surgeons on the world, especially for something as easy as it band release (this exists outside of the LL world too btw).

I have to say I admire your dedication and work ethics and betz and becker are some  of the best in the world.

But I am still so shocked you haven't gotten an ITB release:

"
I think RB and dreamingcloud were both recently clinically diagnosed to not being able to recover their normal functions unless an ITB release was performed. This is definitely not them feeling bad about wide legs and looking for an easy way out.

Betz would first prescribe several months more of PT, and then proceed to ignore the patient. He has not replied to my first 6-week x-ray email for 6 days.

I believe Betz has good intentions in not wanting to release ITB, since too much release can lead to permanent problems. However, since the band is just a fibrious tissue, it cannot stretch. For some people, their tensor fasciae latae muscle simply cannot stretch for the full length of their lengthened femurs."

dremaingcloud (Feb 2021): http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=66226.msg188865#msg188865
 Logged

I am living proof that ITband can be stretched. It may be harder and maybe it was due to the release “helping” but I did fix my related issues and recovered from them with stretching. . The studies that quoted were done on corpses. Nothing comparable to a living organism.
Why I am so sure about it is this:

I had wide legs at 3-4cm couldn‘t close my legs. Then viciously stretched and I could close again. Now my itband have grown to their new length. Pt confirmed that. Your muscles and tendons don‘t magically end too far up after LL. They grow. My walk is pretty good except from slight swaying leftover and some hip flexor related minor duckass. I think in a month or two I will be back to normal except from sports. Becker said 2-3 months post op until normal walking etc and I think that’s accurate.

[Stand taller]

Day 430 (Day 272 Post clicking)

Thankfully the forum is back, it must have been gone for almost a month! (anybody knows what happened?)

As for me, I have had great improvements the past month. First of, because the continuation of the work I do with stretching and focusing more on IT-Band - my duckass is almost completely gone now! The pic below is me after stretching here a few days ago, it is kind of hard to spot it.


https://freeimage.host/i/Hhnumk7

As for walking, things have improved day by day. Around 3-4 weeks ago I started walking without a shopping cart at a local mall. Prior to this I was walking 1-1,5km every day with a shopping cart. This allowed me to stretch my stride as much as possbile. The weather is still cold, snowy and icy, so walking outside is still very hard. But for the past 3-4 weeks I have been walking the "route" at this local mall unassisted - just free walking.

At first I got very tired quickly and also sweaty because of the stillness in my hips. Over the past month I can walk further and also more without getting as sweaty. This week I had goal of walking 2km every day (I don't even use a shopping cart while shopping anymore), and here is what I managed.

Monday 2,5km
Tuesday 2,3km
Wednesday 2,7km
Thursday 2,3km
Friday 2,4km
Saturday 2,0km
Sunday 1,3km

In total I have walked 15,5km the past week, averaging 2,214km every day. My gait and stamina are getting better and better every day. Since I am standing a little straighter every day, I am also stretching new sections of my muscles when walking and training a new area every day. So I have been pretty sore around my hip and back the past week. As I now get closer and closer to zero duckass and standing straight I'm guessing that will get better and better every day.

I am almost 100% straight now, and my "only" struggles now is that I walk a little stiff and my left IT-Band is considerably tighter than my right one. So I walk with a slight limp, but that is getting better and better every day. There is also a big difference in stiffness in the morning and evening, where I am a lot stiffer in the morning. A month ago, I was equally stiff regardless of time of day after sitting down for a few minutes.

For this week, my goad is to walk 2,5km every day for a total distance of 17,5km!

[boots2asses]

Don't want to be rude or something but the balance between the Tibia and Femur just looks so off.

I wonder how you look in jeans as for jeans you can clearly see where the patella is.

[bukibuki]

Don't want to be rude or something but the balance between the Tibia and Femur just looks so off.

I wonder how you look in jeans as for jeans you can clearly see where the patella is.

he already showed a jeans photo and he looks fine
he is 4 inches taller and his life is infinitely improved and you come here and nitpick his long legs for "looking off"