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Author Topic: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please  (Read 1434 times)

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sprit33

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Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« on: January 03, 2022, 12:32:29 PM »

I plan to use precice 2.2 for 7~8cm femur lengthening with Dr. Giotikas ,now I am investigating the information of this doctor.
I searched with keywords, also read a lot of diaries, but I found it is a little difficult to find negative information about a doctor (too much diaries and posts)
Tell me the negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please.
I have seen many positive discussions and diaries about him, is it possible for advertising purposes?
By the way, I like this doctor very much, I am doing this because I want to know more comprehensive information.
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Masteryourlife

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2022, 01:07:48 PM »

I plan to use precice 2.2 for 7~8cm femur lengthening with Dr. Giotikas ,now I am investigating the information of this doctor.
I searched with keywords, also read a lot of diaries, but I found it is a little difficult to find negative information about a doctor (too much diaries and posts)
Tell me the negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please.
I have seen many positive discussions and diaries about him, is it possible for advertising purposes?
By the way, I like this doctor very much, I am doing this because I want to know more comprehensive information.
A patient of him died couple months ago so idk what diares did you read to be honest .
He is not the worst but I would not pick him ;scroll through leg lenghetning expierences and read more and carefully his diares because idk what is acceptable and what not to you so it's pointless to give personal impressions when standards are different .
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canterk

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2022, 03:40:49 PM »

here you can read about the patient who died: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=68419.0
but this does not say anything concrete about WHY he got the embolism. was it his fault or medical team fault or was he just very unlucky? no one really knows. but take note, the doctor said in an interview with cyborg that his medical team did not have any inadequacies at all according to an independent investigator. of course maybe they are saying this to avoid a lawsuit, we dont know, but the doctor appears to be trustworthy and ethical.

many current patients and recently finished patients have a diary, check them out. v21, morningstar, lucky star, nyc brother, those are the ones i remember right now but there may be more.
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Masteryourlife

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2022, 05:24:55 PM »

here you can read about the patient who died: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=68419.0
but this does not say anything concrete about WHY he got the embolism. was it his fault or medical team fault or was he just very unlucky? no one really knows. but take note, the doctor said in an interview with cyborg that his medical team did not have any inadequacies at all according to an independent investigator. of course maybe they are saying this to avoid a lawsuit, we dont know, but the doctor appears to be trustworthy and ethical.

many current patients and recently finished patients have a diary, check them out. v21, morningstar, lucky star, nyc brother, those are the ones i remember right now but there may be more.
I read them all !
There is no need to link me stuff (not saying it in a bad way) but I read them all , commented and made my own idea .
You want to see just the bright part of it tho and not the fact that every us doctor give xarelto for all the distraction phase while giotikas just for 3 weeks .
He just started doing good amounts of CLL and he already had a death !
It's up to you ,I'm honestly not gonna try to convince u to pick anyone else as I believe that anyone who undergoes this surgery its grown enough to decide for themself .


Just a reminder : Diares will never ever say "he was an as**ole because of this and that" most of them are current patients or in consolidation phase so it's not in their interest to attack their doctor .
They said that PT most time was not experienced ,that nurses where sometimes not professional, that the hospital was not great and that nothing was given if not asked.
The head nurses was on top of the guy who died .
Giotikas HAS NO CLUE about the clicking mechanism but still he offers it and ppl struggled a lot (V21) .
He took 7 hour to out the big nail in (V21) ,n as a consequences he threw up and felt bad for couple days after because of such a prolonged anesthesia.
He performs several surgeries a day (it's a hard and demanding job...2 or 3 surgeries a day can really make u perform at ur best for all of them?!)

Those are not my words but patient words but you read them and you are fine with them so to answear to your topic , other then this , giotikas did not insert a nail upside down or something .
I believe he is a fine orthopedic surgeon but not a good limb lenghetning surgeon ..u can be fine with him sure especially for the price u pay ,its up to you .


Ps: It might look like I am attacking you but I'm really not , I just don't like this surgeon at all for the reasons above .
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HateLAPELoveSTEM

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2022, 05:29:33 PM »

Hey mate every surgeon has bad news or rumors so negative information cannot undermine random surgeons' values even though he/she was took to court like Betz. They are still good surgeons worthwhile of being taken into considerations and you gotta also judge if some patients are just tarnishing random surgeons just bc they are grudging LLers or promoting other surgeons that they are serving for.
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eric.cartman

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2022, 06:07:07 PM »

It really depends on what kind of information you are looking for. Looking for negative information just for the sake doesn't make sense, imo. As mentioned above, one patient died under his care - not sure if it is his fault though. Could have been avoided if he had prescribed Xarelto for entire lengthening period. Having said that, myself and dozens of his other patients took Xarelto only for two weeks post-surgery and everyone was fine.

I did my Tibias with him and ended up having a misalignment during nail insertion - I had to get an additional surgery to get it fixed. I still have slight misalignment on my left leg - he says it's bad luck but it's also surgical skill and technique. My experience with him wasn't entirely positive in that sense, but overall I'd say he's probably better than most of Indian/Turkish doctors. Personally, I like Betz and prefer him to Giotikas. I think Betz is lot more experienced and foresees potential issues before they happen.

I'd also add I hated that stupid hospital in Greece - worst pain management/ patient care I've experienced.
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Masteryourlife

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2022, 06:14:18 PM »

It really depends on what kind of information you are looking for. Looking for negative information just for the sake doesn't make sense, imo. As mentioned above, one patient died under his care - not sure if it is his fault though. Could have been avoided if he had prescribed Xarelto for entire lengthening period. Having said that, myself and dozens of his other patients took Xarelto only for two weeks post-surgery and everyone was fine.

I did my Tibias with him and ended up having a misalignment during nail insertion - I had to get an additional surgery to get it fixed. I still have slight misalignment on my left leg - he says it's bad luck but it's also surgical skill and technique. My experience with him wasn't entirely positive in that sense, but overall I'd say he's probably better than most of Indian/Turkish doctors. Personally, I like Betz and prefer him to Giotikas. I think Betz is lot more experienced and foresees potential issues before they happen.

I'd also add I hated that stupid hospital in Greece - worst pain management/ patient care I've experienced.
Definitely misalignments are about the doctor surgical skill !
As you said , I believe too he is far better then ones in Inidia and in turkey and his prices appeal everyone ..but I ,personally, would rather save more or struggle more to pay a loan then go to him .
It's a mix of factors that can make the decision with him worthy or not and u get what u  pay (precice 40k it's probably the cheapest out there) .
I read on his website also the he published some articles and (correct me if I'm wrong) they were not about LL but about knees or other problems .
I want a doctor who did just LL for the past 10 years to touch my legs , not a general war orthopedic !
Betz is very experienced but I believe he does not care a bit about you as individual !
I think he has great surgical skills ( he invented fitobone with Baumgart)but the fact he does not care that makes his patient at times have poor outcomes ; crazy lengthening amounts ,no ITB release , fast lenghetning etc.
With betz u have to make ur research first , get the surgery and forget about him lol
Lenghetn conservative,  1mm a day max , stay on top of PT and meds and you will eventually be fine ..but if u follow his beliefs...u screwed
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hiddensir

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2022, 07:45:12 AM »

hi sorry can u explain more about your slight misalignment? how is it? and can u fix it or it's permanent and last quastion when u did that?
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ll-patient

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2022, 09:10:56 AM »

I think patients are going to him only because he is inexpensive (because greece is quite cheap) and he is offering guichet nail (weight bearing).

I do not know why and how he became famous all of a sudden on the forum. maybe it's the price and offering of guichet nail. does he have a fellowship in LL and deformity correction?

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sprit33

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2022, 09:47:10 AM »

Also need to know the initial symptoms and potential risk days of serious complications (PE, FE), and many, many other things.
Read articles and then take notes, become at least half of expert in this field before undergoing surgery,do this for every doctor, even Paley.
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canterk

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2022, 06:57:29 PM »

I read them all !
There is no need to link me stuff (not saying it in a bad way) but I read them all , commented and made my own idea .

hi masteryourlife, my reply was for sprit33 not for you. he asked for negative information about the doctor so i linked him the thread. apologies for the misunderstanding.
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Masteryourlife

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2022, 07:16:52 PM »

hi masteryourlife, my reply was for sprit33 not for you. he asked for negative information about the doctor so i linked him the thread. apologies for the misunderstanding.
No it was my bad , I did not read the nickname and thought it was the guy of the topic .
All good no worries :)
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Arcon

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2022, 10:32:25 PM »

...does he have a fellowship in LL and deformity correction?...

Hi, if you check him you will see that he specialized in LL and deformity correction at Addenbrookes hospital in Cambridge, UK, since 2012.  After cambridge he went to John radcllife Trust in Oxford. These hospitals are not just random hospitals, they are world renowned institutions and flagship trusts of the British NHS!  They are very meticulous with vetting and they are not employing random doctors. Before that, he participated in international deployments with NATO in Afghanistan as a military surgeon.
For these reasons (and because most people who met him seem to agree the he is what we would call a "strong personality"), I believe Giotikas is not just anybody and he is probably one of the most appropriately trained and experienced surgeons in the wolrd to be doing limb lengthening.
He started his private practice in Athens in 2017 (whilst he was still in Oxford!) and he only introduced guichet nail last summer, so I don't think that he is that "green" now in the CLL community, or that people are just going to him merely because of the g- nail.
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ReadRothbard

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2022, 12:32:51 AM »

Hi, if you check him you will see that he specialized in LL and deformity correction at Addenbrookes hospital in Cambridge, UK, since 2012.  After cambridge he went to John radcllife Trust in Oxford. These hospitals are not just random hospitals, they are world renowned institutions and flagship trusts of the British NHS!  They are very meticulous with vetting and they are not employing random doctors. Before that, he participated in international deployments with NATO in Afghanistan as a military surgeon.
For these reasons (and because most people who met him seem to agree the he is what we would call a "strong personality"), I believe Giotikas is not just anybody and he is probably one of the most appropriately trained and experienced surgeons in the wolrd to be doing limb lengthening.
He started his private practice in Athens in 2017 (whilst he was still in Oxford!) and he only introduced guichet nail last summer, so I don't think that he is that "green" now in the CLL community, or that people are just going to him merely because of the g- nail.

Yeah, he honestly seems to be a great surgeon. I still have some doubts, and I probably wouldn't do four-segment lengthening with him, but he does look amazing as a budget option for internals.
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Antonio111111

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2022, 02:54:10 AM »

It really depends on what kind of information you are looking for. Looking for negative information just for the sake doesn't make sense, imo. As mentioned above, one patient died under his care - not sure if it is his fault though. Could have been avoided if he had prescribed Xarelto for entire lengthening period. Having said that, myself and dozens of his other patients took Xarelto only for two weeks post-surgery and everyone was fine.

I did my Tibias with him and ended up having a misalignment during nail insertion - I had to get an additional surgery to get it fixed. I still have slight misalignment on my left leg - he says it's bad luck but it's also surgical skill and technique. My experience with him wasn't entirely positive in that sense, but overall I'd say he's probably better than most of Indian/Turkish doctors. Personally, I like Betz and prefer him to Giotikas. I think Betz is lot more experienced and foresees potential issues before they happen.

I'd also add I hated that stupid hospital in Greece - worst pain management/ patient care I've experienced.

Thinking positive does not change a outcome bro. It is better to see pros and cons and facts as they are. Don't become blind to something just because a doctor is good price.

This is for everyone please read and reflect.

I have to agree with masteryourlife on this.

Do not let your pursuit of cheap surgery blind you to a surgeons results

That gnail patient who died I believe would not have died if he went paley. Why i say this? Look at the number of surgeries paley does and has 0 death. He has had embolism but was able to sort it and prevent death. THAT is the competence he has that giotika does not. Paley has way better quality control.

Paleys track record and huge number of surgeries prove it.

Sure you could get lucky and come out fine with cheaper surgeons like giotika etc. But it's at a risk. A higher risk than what people think.

Let me use some analogy. You can make a house out of wooden frame and it'll suffice for most people. Most people will be happy. But what about some areas where termites eat the wood. Then house will get weaker.

So although many would praise that wood is fine but are biased and do not see that wood has its drawbacks. Metal frames are way better. No termite issue. Strength to last years and years. Some will call it overkill and expensive. But fact is metal frame will have way higher success rate than wood.

Another analogy is toyota/Lexus car company. They spend so much on quality control of their engines. Their engines last so long. Each part of engine is checked and verified. So very high quality protocol. So that's why say Toyota camry has such low problems in the car. Some other companies don't have such high quality standard. Ud seee the happy customers from other companies say car is fine. But there are vast others who say their cars are crap. With Toyota very very high percentage won't have problems with their toyota camry.

Best analogy is pilots. Cheap airline pilots are not trained to handle all situations. They just know how to take off and land and several other things. The happy scenario. So most people fly with them and come out alive and they praise them. But what about in bad weather conditions? Can their pilots fly with one engine off? Can they land properly with no front wheels? Nope. This is where highly trained pilots like for examples ones from Qantas and emirates shine. Their pilots can handle various severe conditions like engines not working, tyres not popping out, etc and still able to land the plane safely. Google it, these incidents have happened and their pilots landed the plane safely. Their pilots are expensive.

So the take away from this is, you are playing with chance with every decision you make. Doing this surgeey has risk yes. Going with less track record docs like giotika will increase your risks. Do u want to take that extra risk to save money? If yes then go ahead. And I genuinely hope you come out alive.

Me personally I'd rather save more money and go with top USA docs and get the proper quality protocol and after care. And knowing he has the best competence to prevent death if embolism is to occur. Atleast I'd be alive to pay off the bigger loan.

When  s**t  doesn't hit the fan, every doctor will look same and most will decide on just price.

When s**t  hits the fan, that's when high competence will show its benefits. Eg paley, metal house frames, Toyota, highly trained pilots.

Giotikas patient who died showed giotikas incompetence when s**t   hit the fan.

Now the choice is yours. Choose wisely and then bear its consequence. Either Good or bad.


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canterk

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2022, 05:34:29 AM »

i think with the dead patient we have to know for sure whose fault it was. we don't know if the patient followed all protocol. we don't know if giotikas is telling the truth that medical staff followed all standards in care. we just don't have any way to know now because the patient came alone and now he is gone and cannot answer our questions.
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Arcon

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2022, 10:03:41 AM »

...Do not let your pursuit of cheap surgery blind you to a surgeons results...That gnail patient who died I believe would not have died if he went paley.  He has had embolism but was able to sort it and prevent death. THAT is the competence he has that giotika does not. Paley has way better quality control...When s**t  hits the fan, that's when high competence will show its benefits. Eg paley, metal house frames, Toyota, highly trained pilots...Giotikas patient who died showed giotikas incompetence when s**t   hit the fan...

Excuse me but I disagree… Sh*t did hit the fan on that day in Athens and Giotikas’s team responded quickly according to their protocol and managed to save the patient’s life on the day of the incident (pretty much like Paley’s team saved their own patient, if you like to compare with Paley). The family of the patient then decided to disconnect the patient from the ICU machines in the following days because of his bad brain response.
I can’t imagine what else or what more Paley (or anyone) would have done if they had a patient with heart attack away from the hospital. From what I understand, Paley’s embolism occurred when the patient was still in the hospital, so the chances of survival were far more on his side; Actually it would have been a “crime” if their patient had died whilst in the hospital!
For me Paley is unjustifiably expensive, especially if you consider that you don’t get to see him a lot during your recovery or even be operated by him. Paley also failed to inform authorities about the problems of Stryde despite tha fact that he used it in large nummbers much earlier than the rest of the world; this doesn't show any quality control imo or just shows prioritization in making money. Giotikas is far more accessible than Paley and very much appropriately trained and experienced for the job…even when sh*t hits the fan!
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Masteryourlife

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2022, 10:19:37 AM »

Excuse me but I disagree… Sh*t did hit the fan on that day in Athens and Giotikas’s team responded quickly according to their protocol and managed to save the patient’s life on the day of the incident (pretty much like Paley’s team saved their own patient, if you like to compare with Paley). The family of the patient then decided to disconnect the patient from the ICU machines in the following days because of his bad brain response.
I can’t imagine what else or what more Paley (or anyone) would have done if they had a patient with heart attack away from the hospital. From what I understand, Paley’s embolism occurred when the patient was still in the hospital, so the chances of survival were far more on his side; Actually it would have been a “crime” if their patient had died whilst in the hospital!
For me Paley is unjustifiably expensive, especially if you consider that you don’t get to see him a lot during your recovery or even be operated by him. Paley also failed to inform authorities about the problems of Stryde despite tha fact that he used it in large nummbers much earlier than the rest of the world; this doesn't show any quality control imo or just shows prioritization in making money. Giotikas is far more accessible than Paley and very much appropriately trained and experienced for the job…even when sh*t hits the fan!
Where did u get those infos ?
I read that he died before even arriving at the hospital or even having any treatment .
Am i wrong ?!
If someone  who was in Greece can clarify this would be helpfull for the sake of this conversation
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3412strnr

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2022, 11:06:11 AM »

.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2022, 11:41:35 AM by giotikasgnail »
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Nyc brother

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2022, 11:31:46 AM »

I think patients are going to him only because he is inexpensive (because greece is quite cheap) and he is offering guichet nail (weight bearing).

1000% at least for me.
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Antonio111111

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2022, 10:44:42 AM »

The exact details of whether it's giotikas or patients fault will never be known. Dead people can't defend their point of view. So right now things can be swayed away from giotika easily even if he was at fault.

But the fact is, which is my point, paley has had so many surgeries under his belt and zero death. Don't forget that people. Operation technique matters too in preventing embolism etc. We do not know how good giotika is in terms of surgery skill. I believe giotikas surgery skill is not great. I even think betz surgeries are way better than giotika. Giotika doesn't align bones properly. Betz patients have perfect alignment. There are many other variables in this as well.

So a surgeon can fall short in any one area that can increase risk of embolism. Eg giotika giving blood thinners for such a short time.
Giotika didn't even talk much about the incident with cyborg. To me it totally smells like they shoving it under the rug and letting news die out.

Giotika would have earned alot of trust if he had addressed it with cyborg to clear the air. But all he did was keep it a mystery.

If people wanna take their chances with giotika, go ahead. Each to their own. But I just wanted to put my point across that life matters more than money. And don't take too many risks.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2022, 11:05:30 AM by Antonio111111 »
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dreamingtall

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2022, 05:44:36 PM »

Excuse me but I disagree… Sh*t did hit the fan on that day in Athens and Giotikas’s team responded quickly according to their protocol and managed to save the patient’s life on the day of the incident (pretty much like Paley’s team saved their own patient, if you like to compare with Paley). The family of the patient then decided to disconnect the patient from the ICU machines in the following days because of his bad brain response.
I can’t imagine what else or what more Paley (or anyone) would have done if they had a patient with heart attack away from the hospital. From what I understand, Paley’s embolism occurred when the patient was still in the hospital, so the chances of survival were far more on his side; Actually it would have been a “crime” if their patient had died whilst in the hospital!
For me Paley is unjustifiably expensive, especially if you consider that you don’t get to see him a lot during your recovery or even be operated by him. Paley also failed to inform authorities about the problems of Stryde despite tha fact that he used it in large nummbers much earlier than the rest of the world; this doesn't show any quality control imo or just shows prioritization in making money. Giotikas is far more accessible than Paley and very much appropriately trained and experienced for the job…even when sh*t hits the fan!



Paley Really is so expensive that you either need to already be wealthy at a young age which is not the majority or deplete your savings, credit score, and future investments
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Starting Height: 170.68cm; Goal Height: 182cm in two separate operations (^8cm Femurs, ^5cm Tibias)

kamaruusman

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Re: Negative information about Dr. Giotikas, please
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2022, 01:09:44 PM »



Paley Really is so expensive

And so is our life.
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