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[173to187USTORUSSIA]

Hello. Over the past year I have been working my a** o ff. I make $21 dollars an hour at my job. All of the sudden today at the middle of my shift, the HR lady called and told me I was immediately on administrative leave. It was like a punch to the chest. I have saved $21,5000 dollars, nearing my goal of $30,000 to depart Russia. I want to get this surgery, get as much height as I can and rebuild my life in a different state.

I am still trying to stay positive. On the bright side - I will have a paycheck of $2,500 coming in. I have decided to do Doordash and Grubhub 16 hours a day. I will not stop until I hit my goal of having $28,000 - $30,000 dollars. I will drive for 16 to 18 hours a day if I have to!

I would rather be homeless, begging on the street and 6'2 then a lonely 5'8 short man with a house and nobody or a women just with me for me providing.

The good:
I only pay $1050 a month rent including utilities. Car is payed off.

On a side note, you guys were right about my ex. We dated again for a month and then she told me she just "wasn't feeling it." Looks like their are plenty of fish in the sea, AFTER SURGERY

Im trying to stay positive and optimistic instead of sinking into a deep depression. The sooner I get this surgery the sooner I can rebuild my life.
I can't live the rest of my life as a lonely under-average man. No amount of muscle helps on a short man's body. I need to get out of this state I am in as well. I can't handle high altitudes and my health, sleeping, energy and cognition are F'D up.

Please give me advice and the positive reinforcement I need to press on during this trying time!

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Just take the vaccine you sissy.

[173to187USTORUSSIA]

Just take the vaccine you sissy.

I got it back in March, but I appreciate your comment anyways. I will try to keep my head up. I find your posts inspiring and motivating, specifically the thread where you let people ask you questions about your surgery.

[zaozari]

Hello. Over the past year I have been working my a** o ff. I make $21 dollars an hour at my job. All of the sudden today at the middle of my shift, the HR lady called and told me I was immediately on administrative leave. It was like a punch to the chest. I have saved $21,5000 dollars, nearing my goal of $30,000 to depart Russia. I want to get this surgery, get as much height as I can and rebuild my life in a different state.

I am still trying to stay positive. On the bright side - I will have a paycheck of $2,500 coming in. I have decided to do Doordash and Grubhub 16 hours a day. I will not stop until I hit my goal of having $28,000 - $30,000 dollars. I will drive for 16 to 18 hours a day if I have to!

I would rather be homeless, begging on the street and 6'2 then a lonely 5'8 short man with a house and nobody or a women just with me for me providing.

The good:
I only pay $1050 a month rent including utilities. Car is payed off.

On a side note, you guys were right about my ex. We dated again for a month and then she told me she just "wasn't feeling it." Looks like their are plenty of fish in the sea, AFTER SURGERY

Im trying to stay positive and optimistic instead of sinking into a deep depression. The sooner I get this surgery the sooner I can rebuild my life.
I can't live the rest of my life as a lonely under-average man. No amount of muscle helps on a short man's body. I need to get out of this state I am in as well. I can't handle high altitudes and my health, sleeping, energy and cognition are F'D up.

Please give me advice and the positive reinforcement I need to press on during this trying time!

With all respect and really wanting to help may I ask first of all if you think you also suffer from height neurosis (it may be obvious but it's important you have this clear in your mind, because this may change everything when approaching the problem).

[173to187USTORUSSIA]

With all respect and really wanting to help may I ask first of all if you think you also suffer from height neurosis (it may be obvious but it's important you have this clear in your mind, because this may change everything when approaching the problem).

Is it really neurosis? Or is it simply the rational part of my brain realizing that I will always be at a disadvantage and have to work significantly harder then tall men. A neruosis is based in one's mind. Heightism is based in reality.

Nightclubs and bars are meat markets. I will never be able to really compete and get the women I want standing at 5'8. With tinder and online dating apps height is more important than ever
.

I went out to the club the other day with 4 inch timberland style boots and felt amazing. It was indescribable. I couldn't dance worth a damn in them but it felt so good.

I still got dwarfed by a 6'5 and 6'3 guy. Guess who the hottest girls in the club were with?


A neurosis is one thing. Being filtered out of the dating and casual hook up scene because of my height is another thing.

At some point in life a man has to face the facts and come to terms with the reality of the world.

The reality of the world is as a short man you always need to be exceptional in all other aspects to even have a shot at dating women that naturally gravitate towards tall men. Giving women the ability to choose who they want to mate with leads to shorter men being left out in the cold OR always worrying about when the girl they are with will leave them. What's worse as a short man is you can't replace the girl without weeks to months of work.

Meanwhile Mr 6'2 gets a new hookup every week to every few days and women compete and vie for his attentino.

[zaozari]

I am really NOT saying it is neurosis! (By the way, I have neurosis). How could I tell?
I asked because IF IT'S ASSOCIATED WITH NEUROSIS it objectively doesn't matter that I tell you a fact that is for example what is the men's height most sought after by women in the UK (Hint: it is less than 6'00"). (I am making a copy paste of a post I wrote in another topic further below). It will also be,  according to my experience, very difficult to overcome without LL.

On the other hand, IF THERE IS NOT height neurosis, WITH YOUR HEIGHT  you can possibly (not certain,  of course) avoid LL with all its risks, time and money spent; you can escape that financial problem immediately, try behavioural cognitive therapy, and you can invest that time and money on working in other things that make men also more appealing specially for inteligent and sensitive women, who are physically as beautiful as other more superficial women (just think for example in how many girls prefer going to the gym or whatever instead of nightclubs).
These things are for example; good personal coaching, travelling, working on purchasing your own house, having it with nice, cosy, decoration, have a decent car (no need to be a Ferrari, maybe a nice electrical one:-), languages, meditation, self knowledge and self control, knowledge about women (yes, we can be better!), "nice" hobbies, fashionable clothes (no need of Louis Vitton!), etc.
Let me also add the following,  repeating from other posts: at the end of the day, when we get tired of f******, we only need ONE woman! A woman that really loves you, no matter if you get fat, bald, or old. And she can be beautiful, sxxy and everything you wish for!

COPY PASTE:
(...)
Re: WHAT DO WOMEN WANT AFTER ALL?
(...)
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2021, 01:58:48 PM »
______________

Well, it seems I got the answer and very exact (at least in the UK):

It's 5"8 (172,8 cm).

Yes! No more, no less. Many of us are falling in the trap of stereotypes, insecurities and other bull !

" 5ft 8in is the ideal height for a man.
Dating app Badoo has revealed the most right-swiped heights based on their users aged 18 to 30. "
Note that this is not an average that could even correspond to not a single woman preferences. This is really the height the the highest number of real women in the UK prefer.

Also, "  5′8″ Is the average height for a NAVY SEAL"

Maybe they just don't like feeling a super high arm "falling" with the hand on their shoulder....or not being able to give a normal hugh!

Rember also that
The average males height in the is USA is 5"" 9,3 while in the UK is taller: 5"10,1

So, "please", those of you with 5"8 (or even 5"7 using elevator insoles), don't risk your body, don't waste your time and money in LL!
(Even if your concern is not girls, think deeply on this matter...)

Improve yourself in other matters: learn languages, improve your style, get counselling or yoga or whatever to feel more secure and better self esteem when you are with girls, at your job, etc. Buy a nice car. Travel with your girlfriend. And when you are nked with no insoles surely she will not stop loving you for 1 inch, if are good to her and show you love her!

Regarding myself I am so far from 5"8 that I really still think about LL and will stay in this forum....

Sources:

https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/dating/most-attractive-height-for-man-woman-a3846246.html

https://tall.life/height-percentile-calculator-age-country/

Navy Seals : Quora after Google search. Link doesn't  stick

[fivesevencripple]

30k is a good number. take credit and if you cant pay it off you ll go to jail for 1-2years and itll be fine.
you might also want to stay in russia. russians dont cooperate with us. so if interpol looking for you for credit fraud nothing will happen.

[ReadRothbard]

Wait, why were you put on administrative leave?

[zaozari]

Believe me, I understand your suffering. I am 5,0" and neurosis leading to depression, altough I had 3 very nice girlfriends (in all aspects....) 2 or 3 cm taller (and sometimes more, with high heels) which apparently were not enough confidence booster :-( and I lost them because of me only.

So if you feel you are stuck and not already "depressed enough"  to make the best judgement, go ahead before getting worst. I think I know a chance of doing LL with the money you have and I would never post it here if I wasn't considering it for myself also in terms of safety. But I haven't finished my research and if you consider it, you should do it also. I think I should not post all details to everybody until I have better knowledge, I don't want to minimally influence negatively somebody too young or inexperienced that may be in the forum. However, everybody can find this, I can also PM more details for somebody who is interested. I am not promoting this!! (You can check my other 220 posts).
This is not a greedy doctor, he first refused to do it on me because of my age, then I promised to do intensive  physiotherapy and he accepted but only up to 6 or 6,5 cm! He is experienced enough.
He does only tibias and LON. Costs are the following (don't include :Achilles tendon lenghtening if needed):.

There are 3 packages you can choose from. 
BASIC PACKAGE
- US $10,000 Including surgeon fees, hospital fees, implant costs, nail+frame cost, analgesics, 10 nights in hospital after implantation, 3 nights in hospital after EF removal, hospital meals. 
STANDARD PACKAGE (For lengthening 6cm)
- US $15,000 Including everything in Basic Package + Accommodation and meals in 60 days of lengthening period in an 1-bedroom apartment, 40 hours of physical therapy. 
PREMIUM PACKAGE (For lengthening 7cm)
- US $19,000 Including everything in Basic Package + Accommodation and meals in 90 days in an 1-bedroom apartment, 60 hours of physical therapy, pick-up and transfer to and from airport.

Note that premium package doesn't really "offer" 7 cm. It only assures treatments and physiotherapy IF your body supports 7 cm.
Some people say they spend less with less inclusive packages if they arranje accomodation and caretakers by themselves.

[zaozari]

For total clarity, and since I posted the above, I should also add the following;

1. This is NOT my first choice,  because:
a) the doctor is more than 24 h in plane away from where I am and besides all other inconveniences, I would like to have access to an anti gravity thread-mill to help physiotherapy;
b) physiotherapy is done at the accommodation place, not gym or hospital,  it's confortable and it's probably enough, but I would like to have a bike (which I won't except if I buy one, 2nd hand there) always nearby to guarantee full 2/h a day 6 or 7 days a week, the least, of physiotherapy and, more important:
c) altough I decided "tibias first" I would really like to avoid any nail there for several reasons (not only but main one, the risk of chronic pain in knee due to place of insertion: around the knee and through or around patellar tendon).

2. The method I already chose after comprehensive analysis, for tibias, is Externals Ilizarov adapted or not (like Taylor). This doctor ceased to do it one year ago and fully concentrates in LON.

3. So, this is my background "plan c" in case I don't have enough resources to do it in Europe. But it seems a very good compromise between safety and costs. Remember than except when using very expensive nails, some western doctors  are a bit greedy, have more expensive  prices (of course, it's also true that verything else is not cheap in the western world). So, also LL cost is substancially higher than in "cheaper"  countries that however are leaving "3rd world" classification long ago. But I still have to confirm after direct talk and follow up of more patients.
For the time being, I found enough ethical guarantees (he almost doesn't make publicity, only has a website in his own language that western people can only read by translation  like with Chrome browser for example, AND, last but not the least, the doctor is respected and experienced, despite its young aspect and he does not stop research and publishes it in good scientific expert magazines.

[Highest]

Hi zaozari OT how tall are your parents? Did you have any medical problems in your childhood?

[zaozari]

mistake post, sorry, I will write answer  a bit later

[173to187USTORUSSIA]

Wait, why were you put on administrative leave?

Long story short: I posted a politically incorrect comment on a blog on a company computer that was most likely either keylogged or being tracked somehow. Pretty stupid way to lose a good job but its what it is.

[ReadRothbard]

Long story short: I posted a politically incorrect comment on a blog on a company computer that was most likely either keylogged or being tracked somehow. Pretty stupid way to lose a good job but its what it is.

Damnit, man. Try to explain away the remarks with some excuse. Hiding your political and social views is a must when working anywhere.

[-]

I would rather be homeless, begging on the street and 6'2 then a lonely 5'8 short man with a house and nobody or a women just with me for me providing.

Im trying to stay positive and optimistic instead of sinking into a deep depression. The sooner I get this surgery the sooner I can rebuild my life.

I can't live the rest of my life as a lonely under-average man.

Hi there. I hope you are well. I know how you feel and can certainly relate with you whenever I see a tall dark handsome Indian man with a hot blonde white girl. But there's always hope for you if you can provide for a woman financially as you already know. So don't lose hope!

[stevens]

Is it really neurosis? Or is it simply the rational part of my brain realizing that I will always be at a disadvantage and have to work significantly harder then tall men. A neruosis is based in one's mind. Heightism is based in reality.

Nightclubs and bars are meat markets. I will never be able to really compete and get the women I want standing at 5'8. With tinder and online dating apps height is more important than ever
.

I went out to the club the other day with 4 inch timberland style boots and felt amazing. It was indescribable. I couldn't dance worth a damn in them but it felt so good.

I still got dwarfed by a 6'5 and 6'3 guy. Guess who the hottest girls in the club were with?


A neurosis is one thing. Being filtered out of the dating and casual hook up scene because of my height is another thing.

At some point in life a man has to face the facts and come to terms with the reality of the world.

The reality of the world is as a short man you always need to be exceptional in all other aspects to even have a shot at dating women that naturally gravitate towards tall men. Giving women the ability to choose who they want to mate with leads to shorter men being left out in the cold OR always worrying about when the girl they are with will leave them. What's worse as a short man is you can't replace the girl without weeks to months of work.

Meanwhile Mr 6'2 gets a new hookup every week to every few days and women compete and vie for his attentino.

Go to a 3rd world country and get a traditional woman, you are tall/average in 3rd world countries, and women there are traditional. Do a google search and simply put poorest countries in latin america or other places. or simply go to africa. The poorer the country is, the less of a gold digger you wil find.

[-]

Go to a 3rd world country and get a traditional woman, you are tall/average in 3rd world countries, and women there are traditional. Do a google search and simply put poorest countries in latin america or other places. or simply go to africa. The poorer the country is, the less of a gold digger you wil find.

This. As someone who's from a SEA country as well as having been to some other SEA countries, I can confirm this.

We see a lot of short white guys who can't attract girls in their home countries like OP came here and are able to get dates with local girls here.

Only I have to strongly disagree with the last part. In fact, due to the fact that they are 'poorer', it means that they will be more dependent on rich husbands. That's why they won't mind short white guys as much. To them, white men = rich men. And that includes short white men too.

[stevens]

This. As someone who's from a SEA country as well as having been to some other SEA countries, I can confirm this.

We see a lot of short white guys who can't attract girls in their home countries like OP came here and are able to get dates with local girls here.

Only I have to strongly disagree with the last part. In fact, due to the fact that they are 'poorer', it means that they will be more dependent on rich husbands. That's why they won't mind short white guys as much. To them, white men = rich men. And that includes short white men too.

It depends, if you get a woman that is starving to death i don´t think she would be a gold digger.

[Upgrade]

Hi there. I hope you are well. I know how you feel and can certainly relate with you whenever I see a tall dark handsome Indian man with a hot blonde white girl. But there's always hope for you if you can provide for a woman financially as you already know. So don't lose hope!

What is up with you with Indian males and white blonde females?

[-]

It depends, if you get a woman that is starving to death i don´t think she would be a gold digger.

If a woman that is starving to death wanted to be a man so that she will no longer be starving to death, that is basically the definition of a "gold digger". She is in it for the money.

And forgot to say, that just because the OP here, at 5'8", moves to a 3rd world country where the average male is not far from his height, doesn't mean that he will be seen as average height there or that he will no longer be seen as short.

Just so you know that from the point of view of Asian people, white men are strongly associated with size and height. So when South East Asian women see a white man who's almost the same size as their own men, they will see him as small/short.

[HateLAPELoveSTEM]

If a woman that is starving to death wanted to be a man so that she will no longer be starving to death, that is basically the definition of a "gold digger". She is in it for the money.

And forgot to say, that just because the OP here, at 5'8", moves to a 3rd world country where the average male is not far from his height, doesn't mean that he will be seen as average height there or that he will no longer be seen as short.

Just so you know that from the point of view of Asian people, white men are strongly associated with size and height. So when South East Asian women see a white man who's almost the same size as their own men, they will see him as small/short.

You did not consider the aesthetic and cultural differences from a random Westerner and Asian and I swear to God he will just find amusements with Chinese girls cuz he will necessarily fall sick of them for their personalities and styles. You will never imagine how disgusting they are until you run into one of them.

[HateLAPELoveSTEM]

Hi zaozari OT how tall are your parents? Did you have any medical problems in your childhood?

Medical problem is not a universal key to idiopathic short stature or short stature for unknown reasons.
Like my father is 162cm and my mother is 158cm, my paternal grandpa's height is unknown but my paternal grandma is shorter than 146cm, and my maternal grandpa is 165cm+ tall and maternal grandma is 146cm tall.
My nutrition is not bad cuz since 3 y.o, I started to live in the CBD of Shanghai City and it doesn't take a genius to conclude that I am not malnourished at all.
So medicine is a fker and it can't explain why I am so short.

[HateLAPELoveSTEM]

Damnit, man. Try to explain away the remarks with some excuse. Hiding your political and social views is a must when working anywhere.

Is America currently returning to the Degression or something? Why throwing a political remark onto the Internet must put on an administrative leave LOL?

[ReadRothbard]

Is America currently returning to the Degression or something? Why throwing a political remark onto the Internet must put on an administrative leave LOL?

In America, you can be fired or punished at work and school for disparaging a protected/privileged class (women, gays, trans peoples, lesbians, Blacks, Jews, etc.).

[Betagur7]

Ngl I had scheduled an appointment with Rozburch and I reconsidered the surgery after I found out I was 5’8”.Nobody had properly measured me before. This might sound stupid but I would’ve done the surgery to get to 5’9 if I thought I was 5’6.5”. Seeing the OP wanting to go from 5’8 to 6’3 is understandable but I wouldn’t do it.

[zaozari]

Hi zaozari OT how tall are your parents? Did you have any medical problems in your childhood?

Hi! I decided to get sometime out of the forum to gain some distance and reflection before coming back to research and discussion.
So, answering your question my father and mother height are/were both around 158 cm, maximum maybe 159 cm.

[zaozari]

Hi zaozari OT how tall are your parents? Did you have any medical problems in your childhood?

I had no medical problems but a very unstable family and education life, which is now proven to impair normal growth.  I think it's clear I am a "victim" of that and my parents low height, although taller than me (but from a shorter previous generation ! ).

[Petersburglength]

Believe me, I understand your suffering. I am 5,0" and neurosis leading to depression, altough I had 3 very nice girlfriends (in all aspects....) 2 or 3 cm taller (and sometimes more, with high heels) which apparently were not enough confidence booster :-( and I lost them because of me only.

So if you feel you are stuck and not already "depressed enough"  to make the best judgement, go ahead before getting worst. I think I know a chance of doing LL with the money you have and I would never post it here if I wasn't considering it for myself also in terms of safety. But I haven't finished my research and if you consider it, you should do it also. I think I should not post all details to everybody until I have better knowledge, I don't want to minimally influence negatively somebody too young or inexperienced that may be in the forum. However, everybody can find this, I can also PM more details for somebody who is interested. I am not promoting this!! (You can check my other 220 posts).
This is not a greedy doctor, he first refused to do it on me because of my age, then I promised to do intensive  physiotherapy and he accepted but only up to 6 or 6,5 cm! He is experienced enough.
He does only tibias and LON. Costs are the following (don't include :Achilles tendon lenghtening if needed):.

There are 3 packages you can choose from. 
BASIC PACKAGE
- US $10,000 Including surgeon fees, hospital fees, implant costs, nail+frame cost, analgesics, 10 nights in hospital after implantation, 3 nights in hospital after EF removal, hospital meals. 
STANDARD PACKAGE (For lengthening 6cm)
- US $15,000 Including everything in Basic Package + Accommodation and meals in 60 days of lengthening period in an 1-bedroom apartment, 40 hours of physical therapy. 
PREMIUM PACKAGE (For lengthening 7cm)
- US $19,000 Including everything in Basic Package + Accommodation and meals in 90 days in an 1-bedroom apartment, 60 hours of physical therapy, pick-up and transfer to and from airport.

Note that premium package doesn't really "offer" 7 cm. It only assures treatments and physiotherapy IF your body supports 7 cm.
Some people say they spend less with less inclusive packages if they arranje accomodation and caretakers by themselves.

I am interested, who is the doctor?

[zaozari]

Please be advised I'm NOT PROMOTING this doctor and he's not my first  choice. Do your own research including in this forum (you have so far only 3 posts), and be realistic about lenght extension and potential knee problems, among others, with LON (or any other nails in tibias). Be informed about serious risks of all LL surgeries.
At least he has experience and seems serious, he doesn't promote himself in Western countries and he first refused LL in me due to age.  When I "promissed" doing intense physiotherapy and insisted because of the importance I put into it, he advised me to lenghten 6 cm, not 7 cm that I suggested, (The "6" and "7cm" in the packages are only done if medically advised, he just guarantees duration of assistance and physiotherapy at those costs for that maximum lenghtening).
It's Dr. Doàn in Vietnam.