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[ReadRothbard]

Hello everyone, I've been researching LL for quite a long time now, and I'm finally at a place in life where I'm able to comfortably get it. My goal is 15 cm--7 cm on tibias and 8 cm on femurs--which equals about 19% of my total bone length. The first procedure I plan on undertaking is on my tibias, where I want to lengthen 7 cm (or 18.3% of my tibia length). As I understand it, lengthening under 20% of your initial bone length is the ideal, but I also am an avid powerlifter and bodybuilder, so full recovery of my lifting ability is of critical importance to me (I also do stuff like martial arts, but I have no ambitions of being anything more than an amateur athlete in these regards).

With all this being said, what would the LL veterans recommend? Is lengthening the tibias by 7 cm, especially with my athletic goals in mind, a bad idea or not? I'm currently planning on doing it with Dr. Solomin in St. Petersberg using LON, for reference. 

[germanlim]

On tibias I would not go over 5cm.

[ReadRothbard]

For me, 15% of my tibia length would be around 5.7 cm--what do you think?

[Thehighest]

Have read Bad things about solomin and kulesh. Read Androides case nerve damage or badwolf also nerve damage

[Dexter5729]

Hello everyone, I've been researching LL for quite a long time now, and I'm finally at a place in life where I'm able to comfortably get it. My goal is 15 cm--7 cm on tibias and 8 cm on femurs--which equals about 19% of my total bone length. The first procedure I plan on undertaking is on my tibias, where I want to lengthen 7 cm (or 18.3% of my tibia length). As I understand it, lengthening under 20% of your initial bone length is the ideal, but I also am an avid powerlifter and bodybuilder, so full recovery of my lifting ability is of critical importance to me (I also do stuff like martial arts, but I have no ambitions of being anything more than an amateur athlete in these regards).

With all this being said, what would the LL veterans recommend? Is lengthening the tibias by 7 cm, especially with my athletic goals in mind, a bad idea or not? I'm currently planning on doing it with Dr. Solomin in St. Petersberg using LON, for reference.

With your background I think You will do well with LL, similar to mine I did powerlifting and bodybuilding for 6-7 years pre op so I think you kinda get used to the muscle pain, nerve pain when stretching and what not so you'll be fine
Now for tibias , I'm 5'10 pre op keep in mind, when I reached 5cm, it was easy, super super easy. 6-7cm was hard, eventually I pushed to 8cm and 8cm was super super painful.
6 weeks in consolidation now and my gait is 70% back already. So 7cm is Hard but doable

[ReadRothbard]

Have read Bad things about solomin and kulesh. Read Androides case nerve damage or badwolf also nerve damage

Android did cross lenghtening and external femurs--both of which are very ambitious and difficult to undergo. It doesn't surprise me that he had complications, unfortunately. However, I couldn't find Badwolf's diary; is she from the old forums?

[ReadRothbard]

With your background I think You will do well with LL, similar to mine I did powerlifting and bodybuilding for 6-7 years pre op so I think you kinda get used to the muscle pain, nerve pain when stretching and what not so you'll be fine
Now for tibias , I'm 5'10 pre op keep in mind, when I reached 5cm, it was easy, super super easy. 6-7cm was hard, eventually I pushed to 8cm and 8cm was super super painful.
6 weeks in consolidation now and my gait is 70% back already. So 7cm is Hard but doable

Thanks for the input--especially from a fellow powerlifter and bodybuilder. My tibias are 38.1 cm long, so 15-20% of that would be 5.7 - 7.62 cm; however, I would rather be conservative and do no more than about 18-18.5% of my initial limb length (which is 7 cm). Would you advice stopping the lengthening as soon as your doctor makes the call than any more would require ATL? 

[Dexter5729]

Thanks for the input--especially from a fellow powerlifter and bodybuilder. My tibias are 38.1 cm long, so 15-20% of that would be 5.7 - 7.62 cm; however, I would rather be conservative and do no more than about 18-18.5% of my initial limb length (which is 7 cm). Would you advice stopping the lengthening as soon as your doctor makes the call than any more would require ATL?

''slow and steady win the race'' my distraction was in 6 months long. During that time, I lost my walking ability after 5cm, from 6cm to 8cm I turned the screw as slow as possible, sometimes i did not turn the screw for days,  many days I extended the gap only 0.25cm or 0.5cm only. I always stay on top of my legs, period

from 6cm-8cm probly took me like 3 months, I lost my walking ability and gained it back during this period, back and forth, very painful training everyday. I was on bed for weeks on and off and I was on my feet for weeks on and off. Because I did this very slow, at 7cm  I could walk unassisted for like a short distance ''on a good day''. At the end, at 8cm, I could still walk with my right leg, my left leg lost it's strength after 7cm. Man, lots of stuff happened, I should of written my diary but in short it's all about standing and walking. I should have stretched more, only thing I regretted

Anyway, as you can see, I've always stayed on top of my legs, always tried to stand, always tried to walk so I knew how my body responded after each inch gained, I knew I would recover and I did and you will too if you do it slow. Many LL guys on this forum paranoid about pre-consolidation, they extend their legs so fk fast like there's no tomorrow which is funny. Pre-consolidation is a complication, it's a problem but some of them talk about it like a good indication of healthy body by fast bone generation. My bone consolidation is perfect and I did this very slow, can't preach enough why ''slow and steady win the race''. If you have control over your legs, you will know when enough is enough and only you know it more than anybody else. I don't like the idea of atl or it band release, for me, it's better to keep the same structure. I would rather go with 5cm rather than 8 with atl release. Given your athletic background, I refuse to believe you will need this extra surgery regardless, you will be fine

Again, 5cm is easy anyone can do 5 maybe ''weak, old lady can't''. All doctor would agree with me
6cm is not hard -7cm is hard but doable
8cm is super super super hard, don't do 8cm if you don't know what you are doing
 

[AimHigh]

Agreed - did 8 cm (left femur) , only could manage 0.25 mm (or less) per day for last cm

[Sambollio]

I’m going to be honest for your sake, I think it’s more likely than not you will experience serious long term, possibly life long, impairment in mobility. I would expect especially as you age things like Achilles tendinitis will be a huge issue. I’d say go for your 15% length. Not trying to be mean but that length is very concerning to me, I want the best for all my fellow wanna be tall boys.

Also, if you do decide to lengthen that amount I would highly recommend going to the most reputable doctor possible, if you are going to push it, do it under the guidance of the greats.

Good luck man!

[ReadRothbard]

I’m going to be honest for your sake, I think it’s more likely than not you will experience serious long term, possibly life long, impairment in mobility. I would expect especially as you age things like Achilles tendinitis will be a huge issue. I’d say go for your 15% length. Not trying to be mean but that length is very concerning to me, I want the best for all my fellow wanna be tall boys.

Also, if you do decide to lengthen that amount I would highly recommend going to the most reputable doctor possible, if you are going to push it, do it under the guidance of the greats.

Good luck man!

I’ll consider Dr. Palsy’s option of growing up to 16 cm (two quadrilateral lengthenings staged a year apart) if certain financial things come together.

[Phoenixtears]

How are your athletic abilities post op? 8cm seems to be extreme and you should make a diary if you actually did 8cm. I’d be curious to know your stats and doctor

[Dexter5729]

How are your athletic abilities post op? 8cm seems to be extreme and you should make a diary if you actually did 8cm. I’d be curious to know your stats and doctor

i'll make a full clip walking, sitting down ass to grass at 2 months in consolidation phase. I should have written a diary but felt lazy to update same thing everyday

[ReadRothbard]

i'll make a full clip walking, sitting down ass to grass at 2 months in consolidation phase. I should have written a diary but felt lazy to update same thing everyday

I wish you luck, my friend. I don't want to push it with my tibial lengthening, and even 7 cm seems borderline to me, but it works given my starting bone length.

[Thehighest]

consider pili or catagni better you also can add 7cm

[ReadRothbard]

consider pili or catagni better you also can add 7cm

Don't they only do externals? I'd want to at least do LON.

[Dexter5729]

I wish you luck, my friend. I don't want to push it with my tibial lengthening, and even 7 cm seems borderline to me, but it works given my starting bone length.

Tks, when are you gonna do the 1st surgery?

[ReadRothbard]

Tks, when are you gonna do the 1st surgery?

It’s likely going to be sometime next year. I’m 25, so I have to get things done ASAP to be the man I want to be while I’m still young.

[Thehighest]

Have you considered anterior knee pain as a possible risk of LON method? I mean not always happen but is possible.But again with pure external Ilizarov you also have risks like collapse of regenerate or muscle damage because of the long time in frames.

[ReadRothbard]

Are there any studies on the risks of chronic knee pain after LON?

[Thehighest]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15891539/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8990026/

[ReadRothbard]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15891539/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8990026/

Looks like I have to suck it up and do pure externals, then.

[Thehighest]

I will take the risk no way you can saty in frames for a year, take the risk if there is pain is minimal

[ReadRothbard]

I will take the risk no way you can saty in frames for a year, take the risk if there is pain is minimal

There's always a compromise: I can do the lengthening for 2-3 months, and if I REALLY can't stand it, then I'll go ahead with lengthening and then nailing. If I think I can take it, then I'll go ahead with wearing the frames for 8-10 months or so.

[HateLAPELoveSTEM]

Lengthening under 15-20% of length of bones is Dr.Lee's theory and Dr.Paley's study has proven that going beyond 5cm on tibias will exponentially increase the potiential risks of surgery so you better listen to both sides.
I suggest for 15cm you better do Paley's Option 3 which requires rebreaking to achieve the amount what you want.

[ReadRothbard]

I don't have the money for Paley's option, but Dr. Catagni and Peng have been lengthening over 5 cm for a while without any problems. However, I'm considering going for 15% of my initial limb length; the limb length theory is generally accepted by every doctor in the field I've seen.

[HateLAPELoveSTEM]

I don't have the money for Paley's option, but Dr. Catagni and Peng have been lengthening over 5 cm for a while without any problems. However, I'm considering going for 15% of my initial limb length; the limb length theory is generally accepted by every doctor in the field I've seen.

15% is the 'safety' threshold and 20% is the maxium lengthening amount. So going over 15% of the bones can be feasible but the safety will for sure be negative influenced by the lengthening amount over than 15% of the bone lengths.
I still don't think lengthening around 7cm on tibia is safe enough and you gotta know if you become disabled after LL then how tall you are can't make senses anymore unless you think disabled is better than short.

[ReadRothbard]

15% is the 'safety' threshold and 20% is the maxium lengthening amount. So going over 15% of the bones can be feasible but the safety will for sure be negative influenced by the lengthening amount over than 15% of the bone lengths.
I still don't think lengthening around 7cm on tibia is safe enough and you gotta know if you become disabled after LL then how tall you are can't make senses anymore unless you think disabled is better than short.

I don't think it's as clear as that. These ranges are probabilistic--i.e. some people can lengthen 4 cm and be crippled if things go wrong and they don't listen to their doctor, while some can lengthen 10 cm and fully recover if everything goes swimmingly and they take the procedure seriously. Of course, I'm not going to insist on x amount; I'll start the lengthening, see how things develop from their, and decide accordingly.

[zaozari]

I don't have the money for Paley's option, but Dr. Catagni and Peng have been lengthening over 5 cm for a while without any problems. However, I'm considering going for 15% of my initial limb length; the limb length theory is generally accepted by every doctor in the field I've seen.

Hi,
By ''limb length theory'' you mean the threshold of 15/20% of initial bone lenght or the 7cm ''threshold'' (for some)?

[ReadRothbard]

Hi,
By ''limb length theory'' you mean the threshold of 15/20% of initial bone lenght or the 7cm ''threshold'' (for some)?

Yes

[zaozari]

Thanks. I suppose the 15/20, not necessarily 7 cm?