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Author Topic: Out of “danger zone”  (Read 1192 times)

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chicitita

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Out of “danger zone”
« on: December 04, 2021, 09:58:25 AM »

Hi!

I am wondering how long do you have to wait until you are out of the higher risk danger zone for getting fat embolism AND PE?

Fat embolism is like 2-3 days I’ve heard, but correct me if I’m wrong! What about PE?
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tallmen

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2021, 10:13:33 AM »

Hi!

I am wondering how long do you have to wait until you are out of the higher risk danger zone for getting fat embolism AND PE?

Fat embolism is like 2-3 days I’ve heard, but correct me if I’m wrong! What about PE?

End of the lengthening period. Lengthening damage blood vessels which can cause PE. Better to use low dose blood thinners till the end of lengthening.
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V21

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2021, 10:15:02 AM »

The Spanish Dr who say my X rays yesterday told me that you can say you are out of danger from PE 3 months post surgery.
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two

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2021, 11:31:44 AM »

End of the lengthening period. Lengthening damage blood vessels which can cause PE. Better to use low dose blood thinners till the end of lengthening.

This is not true. Any ortho surgery has risk of PE for 3 months. It has nothing to do with lengthening period. Even if you stop lengthening at 3cm you are still at risk for PE for 3 months.
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yash

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2021, 12:02:15 PM »

Rangurangu cycle ekki
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cross ll exfixLON with dr hirdesh and dr saini,, 4.8femurs & 4.8tibs
164cm to 174cm  age:23
step 1(left femur & right tibia) done on 20-aug-2021..removal on 20-oct-2021
step 2(right femur-left tibia) on 21st-nov-2021 removal~10th-jan-2022
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=67864.0

tallmen

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2021, 03:59:18 PM »

This is not true. Any ortho surgery has risk of PE for 3 months. It has nothing to do with lengthening period. Even if you stop lengthening at 3cm you are still at risk for PE for 3 months.

This is absolutely true. Lengthening causes blood vessel injuries which can cause blood clots.
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two

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2021, 04:22:29 PM »

This is absolutely true. Lengthening causes blood vessel injuries which can cause blood clots.

Source?
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tallmen

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2021, 04:49:35 PM »

Source?

Source about? Do you need a source that lengthening blood vessels cause damage to them or does damage to blood vessels cause blood clots? You can google it. It's common knowledge.
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two

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2021, 04:56:18 PM »

Source about? Do you need a source that lengthening blood vessels cause damage to them or does damage to blood vessels cause blood clots? You can google it. It's common knowledge.

Source that lengthening can cause blood clots. "Damage" is a broad word. "Damage" from trauma is different from "damage" from tension of distraction. We need a source that what you say is true. How you say this common knowledge is beyond me.


Anyway, just so no one is misinformed, the risk of DVT exists for upto 3 months after surgery whether you are distracting or not. So you are in "danger zone" even if you stop lengthening at 3cm.
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Masteryourlife

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2021, 05:22:52 PM »

So 3 months post surgery not 3 months post distraction right ?
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TakingAction

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2021, 06:15:51 PM »

So 3 months post surgery not 3 months post distraction right ?

Not right if you’re using non-weight bearing nail. The only time we’re safe is when we’re able to walk without assistance. Because only walking can eliminate the risk of blood clots in our legs.
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Gained 3 inches
Patient of Dr. Robbins and Dr. Paley (Nov 2021)
My Diary: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=68301.0

canterk

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2021, 02:37:18 AM »

To add to OP's question. How do you know if you're developing PE? Yes I googled the symptoms but what is the best way to ensure you catch it while it's early? Get tested regularly? What else?
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tallmen

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2021, 06:04:54 AM »

Source that lengthening can cause blood clots. "Damage" is a broad word. "Damage" from trauma is different from "damage" from tension of distraction. We need a source that what you say is true. How you say this common knowledge is beyond me.


Anyway, just so no one is misinformed, the risk of DVT exists for upto 3 months after surgery whether you are distracting or not. So you are in "danger zone" even if you stop lengthening at 3cm.

You are just stupid. By your logic, all fracture patients should be given blood thinners for 3 months but no doctor does that. Also, Paley only gives blood thinners until the end of the lengthening period so if you do 3 cm he'll only prescribe it for 30 days. You can check his website or consult with him to confirm this.
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two

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2021, 07:27:45 AM »

For the benefit of others:

- Paley gives blood thinners for precice patients for 5-6 months which is well after distraction
- Blood thinners are not the only way of preventing blood clots. Mobility also is. For fracture patients, they use weight bearing nails so they start walking very early. Same with knee replacement patients. Precice LL is very different.
- Blood clots can happen to even healthy people who sit a lot. It is just that after a surgery like this, the risks are much higher for the first 3 months. So even with a weight bearing nail if after 3 months you start sitting on a chair all day then you are at a risk of blood clots.

Everybody needs to choose a doctor they trust 100% and do as they say.
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tallmen

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2021, 10:34:06 AM »

For the benefit of others:

- Paley gives blood thinners for precice patients for 5-6 months which is well after distraction
- Blood thinners are not the only way of preventing blood clots. Mobility also is. For fracture patients, they use weight bearing nails so they start walking very early. Same with knee replacement patients. Precice LL is very different.
- Blood clots can happen to even healthy people who sit a lot. It is just that after a surgery like this, the risks are much higher for the first 3 months. So even with a weight bearing nail if after 3 months you start sitting on a chair all day then you are at a risk of blood clots.

Everybody needs to choose a doctor they trust 100% and do as they say.

It clearly says until the end of the distraction phase on his website. Anyone with iq greater than room temperature can open this link and read it under DVT section.
https://limblengthening.org/complications/
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two

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2021, 01:55:53 PM »

It clearly says until the end of the distraction phase on his website. Anyone with iq greater than room temperature can open this link and read it under DVT section.
https://limblengthening.org/complications/

That could be for stryde but for precice he gives it for 6 months.

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=68301.msg207280#msg207280

Chill out on the abuses  :D
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zaozari

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2021, 04:49:36 PM »

(mistake,  sorry)
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zaozari

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2021, 04:52:48 PM »

"For the benefit of others:

- Paley gives blood thinners for precice patients for 5-6 months which is well after distraction
- Blood thinners are not the only way of preventing blood clots. Mobility also is. For fracture patients, they use weight bearing nails so they start walking very early. Same with knee replacement patients. Precice LL is very different.
- Blood clots can happen to even healthy people who sit a lot. It is just that after a surgery like this, the risks are much higher for the first 3 months. So even with a weight bearing nail if after 3 months you start sitting on a chair all day then you are at a risk of blood clots.

Everybody needs to choose a doctor they trust 100% and do as they say."

************

This is the more accurate response altough it is not complete and Paley isn't God (altough he starts to think so, if it's true that he claims never having or will (!) have cases of infection.  So I would add only the followig:
-I take anticoagulants daily and never had any surgery, fracture or LL yet. My condition is just that, my blood is "thick", a general practitioner sees that in routine analysis easily (time of prothrombin, etc).
So Dr. Paley should add: "special care is needed with patients that are already taking anti coagulation medication prior to LL surgery"", "special care and further medication is needed for these patients if undergoing LL" and (ethically, "safety first" Paley's slogan, but something no LL candidate wants to ear: "a candidate to LL may be excluded from the procedure if blood analisys, other cardiovascular condition, or any history of DVT, any embolism, etc , advise so."
-From the above one must conclude that it may be beneficial to take those medicines for more than 6 months not only in these situations but specially if for any reason the patient has low mobility for whatsoever reason. In fact,  the only problem is not only a person that stays too much time seated but with little movement in whatsoever position. There's even at least one case of a plane stewardess coming from a transcontinental flight that fall flat dead while waiting for luggage due to some kind of thrombosis. And surely she must have walked some distance inside the plane. But she may have been also a longtime seated, a longtime standing and/or walking in a very limited space. The cloth formed surely while in the plane and reached the brain or cardiac artheries later on. In some countries healthy patients are already advised, since a certain age,  to take 100 or 150 mg of aspirin, a natural, light, anti coagulatnt, daily, because of this risk (the benefit of such measure has however been challenged recently).
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two

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2021, 06:33:26 PM »

Interesting zaozari.

Have you consulted with any LL doctors and explained your condition to them?
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Masteryourlife

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2021, 06:51:46 PM »

Thanks to all for the useful infos .

Does anyone knows if after lengthening (a  person with no previous medical cases of PE or DVT) and consolidating etc. It will have more chances of random blood clots in his future life ?
I believe that a 5 or 6 cm lengthening would not make a difference in the body to that point but if someone else has a more scientific answear ,It would be appreciated .


Ps:
The unfortunate guy in Greece brought up so many concerns and we should never forget what happened to him as it could have been anyone (not diving into neglingences or personal opinions ) .
We should all and always keep this approach from now on to this surgery on any aspect of it ,in order to make the right decisions and eventually save ourself from a negligence from a medical team .
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ryand2021

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2021, 10:06:33 PM »

For P2.2 Paley requires blood thinner until you can walk freely, which is 2-3 months into consolidation period. Some people chose to stop it early at their own risk.

There has been at least one blood clot case which happened to a Stryde patient during the consolidation period. So technically you are still at risk of blood clots until you can have reasonable amount of exercise and movement on a daily basis.
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LL: March 2021; Femur Precice 2 with Paley
Before: 170cm; After: 178cm.

soulsearcher

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2021, 10:48:56 PM »

Was the patient on bloodthinners when he had the bloodclot?
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zaozari

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Re: Out of “danger zone”
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2021, 12:42:59 AM »

Interesting zaozari.

Have you consulted with any LL doctors and explained your condition to them?

I haven't addressed that issue with any yet. My hope is that I am "cleared" for LL responsibly and that the condition really gets as normal as possible with the same or other medicines.  I also prefer tibias because fracture is less "agressive" and depending on the method with less "blood mess".
But above all because cloths produced in the tibias region are generally smaller and apparently much less prone to "travel" all the way up to the heart, lungs or brain than those in femur region.
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