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[AppleFanBoy]

You speak without knowledge if you say V21 was a fan of the nurse. People who call other people stupid because they don't agree with their opinions expose themselves for what they are.  Arrogant. People are allowed to have different opinions. I didn't judge her by her cover.  I said I didn't find her highly skilled in communications.  You came alone so you had no choice but to get help.  If you chose to use a person who wasn't trained in PT to do your PT that is your decision.  She did not discover the clicking method. Betz did. I used it on day 2 after watching the Betz video.  I even recorded myself on that day and shared the video with others. I ultimately found a better method in a Guichet video. You have no idea on my recovery to conclude you had a better recovery than me.  From what are you basing that your recovery was better than anyone - your mind?  Or did the nurse tell you that?   My recovery is excellent.  Just because you liked her doesn't mean I have to.  If Dr. Giotikas was dressed in Spandex, at every appointment would you have chosen him? I am sure the deceased is vouching for her right now from the grave.

@LU213 whatever you do in life, do not become a lawyer.  Your interpreting skills and conclusions need some serious work.  Leave opinions/emotions aside and stick to logic. Using a dead person comically to raise a point is the most childish thing I’ve seen on this forum by far and overall says a lot about your maturity. This must be the difference between paying for your own surgery vs someone’s parents paying for their surgery. I initially wasn't going to bother but crossed the line like a kid with a tantrum. Do you even read what you write? Jesus

Have you used any of the nurses services?  Nurses were mainly with their uniform and extremely competent.  You have no idea what you’re talking about if this is the judgement you perceive on the nursing team.  Make some money for your self first and then come back to this forum because it’s the only way I see it making you an adult, fellow American.

P.S. We can see your edit.

[heelsunderhead]

I start this  to help others be aware of the risks.  I know the beloved person very well.  Those people who troll the forum, never post images, never post about the beloved and only show up to defend the nurses, and attack posters do not help others.  Only 2 people wrote about their sadness for the beloved's death in the diaries.  V21 was one and LU213 the other. Please  stop the high school personal attacks about stupid stuff like its bad thing that parents can afford to pay this procedure. No one cares who pay.   Should people have the procedure in the first place?  If so what people need to know to stay alive.

[canterk]

The latest Giotikas interview by cyborg4life is up. It has some segments about PE risks and PE treatment protocols. What do you think guys? Heres the video




Do you think the blame is more on the medical staff or its really a combination of many factors that lead to his unfortunate outcome.

[Lucky star]

I start this  to help others be aware of the risks.  I know the beloved person very well.  Those people who troll the forum, never post images, never post about the beloved and only show up to defend the nurses, and attack posters do not help others.  Only 2 people wrote about their sadness for the beloved's death in the diaries.  V21 was one and LU213 the other. Please  stop the high school personal attacks about stupid stuff like its bad thing that parents can afford to pay this procedure. No one cares who pay.   Should people have the procedure in the first place?  If so what people need to know to stay alive.

On October 7, I visited the rehabilitation center. That afternoon, I accompanied Paul to complete the whole Pt process. We have been chatting. His Chinese is very good. He shared a lot with me. I thank him very much. He is a very cheerful and smiling boy. I got an email reply from the hospital on November 10 to confirm his brain death. When I saw the email, my heart was broken. I couldn't believe it was true. I collapsed and cried many times that day. But I don't know what happened to him, so I didn't say anything.

[canterk]

I'm sorry for your loss to all those who knew the patient who left us. If you are completing your lengthening still please stay strong and you will get through the entire process much taller than before

[chicitita]

SO sorry for your loss. This is truly devestating. This guy shared the same dream as all of us.

[Masteryourlife]

The latest Giotikas interview by cyborg4life is up. It has some segments about PE risks and PE treatment protocols. What do you think guys? Heres the video




Do you think the blame is more on the medical staff or its really a combination of many factors that lead to his unfortunate outcome.

Was trash .(not because of Vic)
He did not care at all !
All he said was that his protocol was acceptable and that the person signed the paper 2 months prior .
I think this is the way guichet got over the problem as well !
Pathetic and disgusting .
I hate those doctors to a crazy extent because it might be partially true that we sign for it , but as for anything else (even a lip filler) , but we do not expect to die .
Also , stuff might happen but they can be fixed (Look at Paleys speech of PE and FE) ,but as other patients stated there , if you say something is not ok, "this is hurting that is hurting "and no one does A THING...then the outcome talks for the doctor .

I hope no one in the foreseeable future will pick giotikas (as it happened with guichet) for this procedure.



Also , only 2 deaths besides maybe some in india or idk with unknown doctors , happen with guichet nail .
Does anyone think that there is a correlation ?
I don't think so but it's just weird

[canterk]

Was trash .(not because of Vic)
He did not care at all !
All he said was that his protocol was acceptable and that the person signed the paper 2 months prior .
I think this is the way guichet got over the problem as well !
Pathetic and disgusting .
I hate those doctors to a crazy extent because it might be partially true that we sign for it , but as for anything else (even a lip filler) , but we do not expect to die .
Also , stuff might happen but they can be fixed (Look at Paleys speech of PE and FE) ,but as other patients stated there , if you say something is not ok, "this is hurting that is hurting "and no one does A THING...then the outcome talks for the doctor .

Do you mean Guichet got a PE death too?! So this means, this kind of nail increases the risk? Does it mean we can choose external or LON/LATN and be safer from PE?

[chicitita]

I would say so.

[chicitita]

Also I do think it was beyond disrespectful how he went and was going over their "protocols" and "safety lines" when a patient is dead and cannot be brought back with these amazing protocols ....

Something went wrong(AND this almost two months after surgery!!!!!) and there should be people hold accountable for this. If not with legal system, then future patients who are thinking to go to Giotikas should NOT got! No height overgoes your wellbeing and living a long life! Please do think many times about which doctor you choose and how invested they will be in your wellbeing. Your wellbeing is their reputation, so trust me - they will care for the sake of something and not find any easy ways out! Thats how I feel with Paley, he will care for the sake of his business and reputation and thats good enough for me!

[V21]

Also I do think it was beyond disrespectful how he went and was going over their "protocols" and "safety lines" when a patient is dead and cannot be brought back with these amazing protocols ....

Something went wrong(AND this almost two months after surgery!!!!!) and there should be people hold accountable for this. If not with legal system, then future patients who are thinking to go to Giotikas should NOT got! No height overgoes your wellbeing and living a long life! Please do think many times about which doctor you choose and how invested they will be in your wellbeing. Your wellbeing is their reputation, so trust me - they will care for the sake of something and not find any easy ways out! Thats how I feel with Paley, he will care for the sake of his business and reputation and thats good enough for me!

Not defending other doctors, but I know for a fact that a guy had fat embolism with Paley (he survived) and the Doctor did not care that much about it, being an arrogant idiot.

[Arcon]

I liked giotikas a lot in this video...He seemed very well composed and very thorough in his answers.

[Marie_Bard]

I also liked him yesterday...Open, trustworthy and knowledgeable. He made himself available to everyone and provided complete answers to all questions asked.

[Masteryourlife]

Not defending other doctors, but I know for a fact that a guy had fat embolism with Paley (he survived) and the Doctor did not care that much about it, being an arrogant idiot.

I believe he survived  because there was a treatment not because he was left on the bed and said "goodnight deal with it " .
Am I wrong ?

[Masteryourlife]

People come on he did not give a f***.
When asked if prices will drop he said "I don't know."

We don't know either but maybe you can explain lil better or have a surgeon perspective.
Prices will change for sure in a way or another because new nails will eventually come out and more surgeon will perform it so his "explanation l" after the"idk." Made no sense .
More surgeon making it means a drop not a stabilization of prices or increase .
This means he clearly don't care and all he wants is money ,period .
Also " any word for perspective patients?"  "No" .
Who ,I mean..WHO IN THE WORLD will pick him after a death case when in an interview he was so calm and giving the vibe of "could not care less" .

Complications can arise , but a death it's a death and saying protocol was "ok" and the patient had signed for it is beyond disrespectfull .
If the dead did not happen the interview was completely fine, but it did and the fact he acted like it didn't concernes me a lot ,not about him as a surgeon only , but as a human being !Period.
Anyone is free to do and pick the surgeon they mostly like tho thisbis just my opinion .

[Masteryourlife]

Based on another post it seems the patient already had a rare underlying condition. I think there was already high risk, irrespective of the doctor.

The guy who was there (don't remember the nickname) said he was completly fine.

[Masteryourlife]

Do you mean Guichet got a PE death too?! So this means, this kind of nail increases the risk? Does it mean we can choose external or LON/LATN and be safer from PE?

Uhm...I honestly don't know but I was asking you all for an opinion .
It's just random according to you or there is a correlation ?
Maybe size and mechanism ..idk

[canterk]

Uhm...I honestly don't know but I was asking you all for an opinion .
It's just random according to you or there is a correlation ?
Maybe size and mechanism ..idk

I'm just saying both PE deaths were patients who had Guichet nail. Is there a correlation? I don't know either and hopefully someone can shed some light into this. It might help patients who still want to choose Dr. G but not his G-nail.

[Arcon]

According to most doctors PE, fat embolism and osteomyelitis risks are the same after femur nailing regardless of the type of the nails used or whether they are inserted from the hip or from the knee.

[Arcon]

...
When asked if prices will drop he said "I don't know."

We don't know either but maybe you can explain lil better or have a surgeon perspective...

Also " any word for perspective patients?"  "No" .
Who ,I mean..WHO IN THE WORLD will pick him after a death case when in an interview he was so calm and giving the vibe of "could not care less" .

Complications can arise , but a death it's a death and saying protocol was "ok" and the patient had signed for it is beyond disrespectfull .
If the dead did not happen the interview was completely fine, but it did and the fact he acted like it didn't concernes me a lot ,not about him as a surgeon only , but as a human being !Period.
Anyone is free to do and pick the surgeon they mostly like tho thisbis just my opinion .

 Calm down mate..We are all just expressing our opinions here.
About future prices: I wouldn't like a doctor speculating about anything when they don't have evidence. We can speculate freely here but doctors ought to be more careful when they speak. I prefer to hear " I don't know" when they don't;  It's not for them to be worried about future prices from now anyway. This is mainly our problem.

About "any words for prospective patients":  He took the time to answer to all questions in detail, patiently and with evidence, I didn't mind that he didn't make a statement in the end, other the "happy holiday season to all".

He was "so calm" because probably the tragic incident was a random or unavoidable event. He did say somewhere ".. the independent scrutiny didn't show any fault and this was a small relief for us" (or something like that, anyway). I don't know if in your country you believe that all complications are doctor's fault but I don't. Bear in mind that doctors are far more familiar than us with complications and deaths and Giotikas has worked in big trauma centres in the UK and even in war zones as a military surgeon so he has probably seen a lot! I am sure that he must have been devastated with what has happened but he has to carry on, doesn't he?

Needless to say I respect you beliefs.

[Masteryourlife]

Calm down mate..We are all just expressing our opinions here.
About future prices: I wouldn't like a doctor speculating about anything when they don't have evidence. We can speculate freely here but doctors ought to be more careful when they speak. I prefer to hear " I don't know" when they don't;  It's not for them to be worried about future prices from now anyway. This is mainly our problem.

About "any words for prospective patients":  He took the time to answer to all questions in detail, patiently and with evidence, I didn't mind that he didn't make a statement in the end, other the "happy holiday season to all".

He was "so calm" because probably the tragic incident was a random or unavoidable event. He did say somewhere ".. the independent scrutiny didn't show any fault and this was a small relief for us" (or something like that, anyway). I don't know if in your country you believe that all complications are doctor's fault but I don't. Bear in mind that doctors are far more familiar than us with complications and deaths and Giotikas has worked in big trauma centres in the UK and even in war zones as a military surgeon so he has probably seen a lot! I am sure that he must have been devastated with what has happened but he has to carry on, doesn't he?

Needless to say I respect you beliefs.

I am here yo express my belief as well and not forcing anyone to do or not do anything but , I don't agree with your statment.
If CLL had such an unpredictable outcome like some doctors try to make us think ,then it would have been illegal in most countries , like the eye surgery thing .
It's not a Russian roulette !
I understand that something bad can happen and ppl died for way less invasive cosmetic surgeries ,but the guys in greece said that the guy complained several times and no one cared .
Also I did say that the interview was fine if he didn't have a death and all he said was that " an independent scrutiny " said that they protocol were acceptable .
For the money ppl spend on this , an acceptable protocol is not enough.
And hided behind the paper signed 2 months prior ..like...we know we sign for it but do you believe he did all he could to save him ?
This is the question I am making ,not that bad stuff can't happen , but that I am not sure he ( and his staff)did all they could to save him .(as some patients also stated by confirming the guy complained and no one cared) .
Those are the words of ppl with no interest in either side so him having "apparent " integrity on an interview doesn't say anything to me .
Again , I would never chose him ;would rather quit on the surgery then choose him,Guichet,betz and co. (Let alone some others that brave the ones who pick them ) .

[thankscience]

I liked Giotikas' responses. Of course limb lengthening is unlikely to get cheaper in the next 5 years. The only way it could become cheaper is if there is a sudden influx of quality doctors providing it.

Regarding Paley's fat embolism case, I believe he said that this had never happened before prior to COVID. Someone also mentioned the patient who died in Athens was unvaccinated. So there may also be some correlation with the pandemic.

[canterk]

I liked Giotikas' responses. Of course limb lengthening is unlikely to get cheaper in the next 5 years. The only way it could become cheaper is if there is a sudden influx of quality doctors providing it.

Regarding Paley's fat embolism case, I believe he said that this had never happened before prior to COVID. Someone also mentioned the patient who died in Athens was unvaccinated. So there may also be some correlation with the pandemic.

I hope we can still confirm whether the patient contracted COVID or not. I read he did a rapid test and it came out negative but still. I know this may sound bad but if he had COVID and having the virus was part of the reason why he developed PE, that would put a lot of potential patients at ease.

[KiloKAHN]

I liked Giotikas' responses. Of course limb lengthening is unlikely to get cheaper in the next 5 years. The only way it could become cheaper is if there is a sudden influx of quality doctors providing it.

Regarding Paley's fat embolism case, I believe he said that this had never happened before prior to COVID. Someone also mentioned the patient who died in Athens was unvaccinated. So there may also be some correlation with the pandemic.

A Paley patient with a diary from 2014 got a fatty emboli in his lungs and at the time Dr Paley said he was the second patient in the last 3 years that got it.

I doubt the embolism had anything to do with COVID in either case.

[thankscience]

A Paley patient with a diary from 2014 got a fatty emboli in his lungs and at the time Dr Paley said he was the second patient in the last 3 years that got it.

I doubt the embolism had anything to do with COVID in either case.

Thanks for clarifying. I know Paley mentioned recently (in an interview - possibly with cyborg4life I think?) something along the lines of there being higher reports of emboli or clots in 2020 and the only thing that had changed was the pandemic. Maybe someone else can confirm...

[alwayslucky]

Hey, guys, so the cause of this incredible tragedy has not been determined yet... I am very heartbroken and shocked. Such a tragedy should not come to such a self disciplined and active person. At the same time, I am afraid that there may not be a specific reason for such a tragedy, such as the hospital or whose fault, but it seems that there is no such reason now, What I fear most is that this tragedy is just because our brother is unlucky, because if so, this tragedy may come to anyone, and it may not be avoided no matter how hard we try. Can someone give us a reassuring explanation？…

Grieve for him again…

[Arcon]

…If CLL had such an unpredictable outcome like some doctors try to make us think…
 the guy complained several times and no one cared
… " an independent scrutiny " said that they protocol were acceptable . For the money ppl spend on this , an acceptable protocol is not enough….
And hided behind the paper signed 2 months prior,we know we sign for….

Hi, I don’t know which doctors you are referring to, but the doctors I know do not present LL as “ unpredictable”. Giotikas said that dying from PE and fat embolism is a  rare but real possibility. like 1 in 7000-10000 cases. Now if you think for a moment that that there have been 2-3 deaths from PE and another few cases of fat embolism in the last let ‘say 10-15 years, and there are maybe 1000-1500 LL surgeries done par year then the numbers do add up and make sense. This not unpredictable imo.

You don’t know the type of complains the died patient did. Maybe they were completely irrelevant to PE. Most of Giotikas’s patients say that he is always very responsive to provide solutions to patient’s concerns, problems etc. Afterall PE is not something that you have for weeks in your body before it decides to kill you. It happens within hours or a couple of days.

A verdict of an independent scrutiny  would never use words like “very good, excellent, fantastic etc” they use terms like “ satisfactory- non satisfactory/ acceptable non acceptable etc”. You need to interpret these terms literally and binary. If they didn’t find anything I tend to believe that the incident was unavoidable or random or within statistics.

The informed  consent process is very important in the West. It is one thing if you have a complication during a treatment as a doctor and a whole different story if you haven’t informed the patient about this possibility when you were discussing the treatment. Giotikas is a UK trained surgeon so this is inside him now.

I understand that you hate Giotikas but systematically defaming him based on your personal explanations of unproved facts is unethical, or at least wrong. I believe that you would be more relactunt to do it if for example giotikas was working in the same country with you and could sue you for professional defamation.

[alwayslucky]

I would like to ask if the patient can make some preparations before the operation to avoid fat embolism. For example, light diet, vitamin C supplementation, reducing body fat rate and so on. I know that in many ll cases, only a few fat embolism will occur. I don't want to be the unfortunate one. I want to try my best to make myself successful

But I'm still scared. According to the comments on the forum, Dr. giotikas should be a very good and experienced doctor, but the tragedy still happens to his patients, including I heard that some of Betz's patients also die. Is it because their ability is not enough or just because of bad luck? Because Dr. Lee, Dr. Paley and Dr. A, which seem to be more top doctors, have no death cases or even serious consequences

[Arcon]

.... Such a tragedy should not come to such a self disciplined and active person. At the same time, I am afraid that there may not be a specific reason for such a tragedy, such as the hospital or whose fault, but it seems that there is no such reason now, What I fear most is that this tragedy is just because our brother is unlucky, because if so, this tragedy may come to anyone, and it may not be avoided no matter how hard we try. Can someone give us a reassuring explanation？…

Grieve for him again…

Imo, the only reassurance is that it is very rare to happen. Choose a good doctor that you trust, stick to their advice, discuss openly all yourconcerns and symptoms,exercise within reason, eat well and stay hydrated.
I discovered recently that too much exercising or dehydration could also cause clots and PE.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2040580/DVT-I-developed-life-threatening-blood-clot-I-exercised-TOO-much.html
https://www.stoptheclot.org/about-clots/athletes-and-blood-clots/

[Arcon]

I would like to ask if the patient can make some preparations before the operation to avoid fat embolism. For example, light diet, vitamin C supplementation, reducing body fat rate and so on. I know that in many ll cases, only a few fat embolism will occur. I don't want to be the unfortunate one. I want to try my best to make myself successful

But I'm still scared. According to the comments on the forum, Dr. giotikas should be a very good and experienced doctor, but the tragedy still happens to his patients, including I heard that some of Betz's patients also die. Is it because their ability is not enough or just because of bad luck? Because Dr. Lee, Dr. Paley and Dr. A, which seem to be more top doctors, have no death cases or even serious consequences

If you read previous posts you will see that Paley had his fair share of fat embolisms in the past, which proves that it can happen to anyone. I also think that the more cases you do the more the chances statistically of something going wrong. From that prespective, rare things are more possible to occur in more experienced doctors who do more cases and maybe more complex cases. I dont think that Betz, Lee and A do as many LL cases as Giotikas does, and certainly not as many as Paley!

[alwayslucky]

Yes, I've seen that post, but Paley handled it well and the patient finally recovered. I think it also reflects his good ability.
And thank you for your advice! Although this seems a very disturbing fact, we may all need to gamble with fate