Limb Lengthening Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: PRECICE studies, risks, & complications  (Read 1365 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

ask.me

  • Newbie
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29
PRECICE studies, risks, & complications
« on: November 03, 2021, 05:09:43 AM »

This forum is a gold mine for information, but the information density is lacking. It's difficult to sort through the uncontrolled variables, anecdotes, and heresy. So I thought we could all play a game with this specific thread.

I keep hearing that even if you have the most experienced surgeon and are the most compliant patient, there's still risks associated to LL.

Let's assume you have the "best" surgeons, and you are extremely compliant as a patient. As someone who wants to go into this with eyes wide open, I want to thoroughly uncover the remaining risks with everyone.


Rules
  • Only post or reply if you can reference a trusted source, which includes studies, research papers, or direct quotes from doctors/surgeon. It does not include patient experiences from patients with unvetted surgeons. The last piece may seem discriminatory, but there are way too many things that can go wrong with an inexperienced surgeon. I'll arbitrarily set "vetted" as appearing in an interview with Cyborg4Life's channel (you tube.com/c/Cyborg4Life).
  • Include a link and direct quote or paraphrase that reference in your reply.
  • Make a clear distinction between your opinion and the information that comes from a reputed source.


I'll keep posting until I get bored.

--
Reference: https://paleyinstitute.org/centers-of-excellence/stature-lengthening/complications/#/

Fat Embolism - Very rare, can cause death, can be prevented.

Deep Vein Thrombosis (DVT) and Pulmonary Embolism (PE) - Rare, preventable with anticoagulants, DVT can lead to PE, which can cause shortness of breath, chest pain and even death. Taking oral contraceptives and smoking increases the risk of DVT.

Premature Consolidation - rare, prevents further lengthening, re-break is necessary for further lengthening
The only way to prevent this is to speed up the lengthening intentionally for a week or two.

Delayed or Failure of Consolidation - preventable by identifying and addressing risk factors, sing surgical methods, setting proper rate of distraction, or reversing distraction; delays weight bearing and increase the period of disability and recovery; can require more surgery to induce bone healing which is expensive.

Nerve Injury - uncommon if the rate of distraction does not exceed 1mm per day and if the amount of lengthening is restricted; Recognition of nerve symptoms is important. The lengthening should be stopped or slowed in such cases;

Muscle Contractures - preventable with PT and patient should do their own stretches at home several times per day. A fixed contracture of the knee or ankle can lead to disability and the need for more prolonged PT along with associated expenses.

Fibular Complications - preventable with surgeon's technique

--
My notes --
Fat Embolism - appear not to be a risk given the assumptions i.e. "best" surgeon.
Fibular complications - appear not to be a risk given the assumptions i.e. "best" surgeon.
Muscle Contractures - unclear whether it's still a risk given the assumptions i.e. compliant patient.
--
Reference: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=9104.465
MyEvolution documents a case of premature consolidation. He underwent the process with the Paley Institute.

Reference: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=9104.527
Paid ~20k USD for re-breaking.

--
Reference: https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2017/8032510/
Some studies show an alarming rate of device-related complications for PRECICE 1 vs PRECICE 2, 17.6% (6/34), and 50% (23/46) respectively.

Nail bending and breakage of rotation coupling without actual instability was the biggest complication. Seen mostly in the smallest (8.5 diameter) nail.

This does not include PRECICE 2.3.
--
Reference: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17453674.2021.1903278
Serious adverse events during treatment with the Precice Stryde.
Late onset of pain was a prominent feature in 8/27 patients.

In the MHRA reference 2020/012/009/226/001 issued January 20, 2021 one concern that was raised was the “unknown long-term biological safety profile. This includes reports of pain and bony abnormalities at the interface between the telescoping nail segments.”

2/30 femoral Stryde nails broke within 1 year after implantation (nail diameter: Ø11.5, Ø11.5; patient weight: 55 kg, 85 kg). This adverse event is not considered to be related to the described osteolysis, but a consequence of regenerate insufficiency

If the suspected prodrome—late onset of pain in the junctional area—is included, 23/30 of segments were affected. Despite these alarming numbers, the true incidence rate is likely to be higher, as 15/30 of the bone segments were still at risk, i.e., the nails were not removed at the time of writing.

In contrast, Robbins and Paley (2020 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17453674.2021.1903278#), who were the first to implant the device in May 2018, state in their paper from 2020 evaluating 187 lengthened bone segments in 106 patients: “There were no issues related to biological incompatibility of the Biodur® 108 alloy stainless steel from which the implant was fabricated. There was no corrosion seen in the few nails that were removed during this short study time.”

2 patient were suddenly unable to fully weight-bear after solid consolidation of the regenerate

Vogt et al. (2021) also describe osteolysis in Stryde nails. Late onset of pain was also the dominant clinical feature in their case series, which was relieved by hardware removal. Moreover, they observed discoloration of the nail at the telescoping interface.
--
My notes --
On the plus side, it seems removing the hardware relieves pain.
Logged

zaozari

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 633
Re: PRECICE studies, risks, & complications
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2021, 02:40:37 PM »

Hello, congratulations for your excelente work!
May I just ask you to allow and rename/copy to a new one, a topic to include all LL methods, after all, biological challenges are mostly the same?
I suggested this also in:
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=68400.msg206883;topicseen#msg206883
Logged

zaozari

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 633
Re: PRECICE studies, risks, & complications
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2021, 02:48:57 PM »

This one is already sticked, but not sistematic/organized.

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=680.0

It could be one of the sources.
But  I confess I don't know if the "ideal" topic could be edited, bu whom, and if the moderator for example has the time....
Logged

ask.me

  • Newbie
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29
Re: PRECICE studies, risks, & complications
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2021, 03:27:12 PM »

Thanks @zaozari.

Would appreciate if you DM'd me since the purpose for this thread is to keep it extremely concise (no noise).

I would suggest creating a new topic and linking back to this thread. My intention is to keep this topic relevant for those considering PRECICE. There are different tradeoffs between devices, and even within the PRECICE family, there's PRECICE 1, 2, ..., 2.3, STRYDE that each comes with its own tradeoffs.

BTW, I could not consider the thread you linked as a source since it doesn't fall into a "trusted" category, but for example, TRS's post within that thread would be an ideal addition to this thread.
Logged

c

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 140
Re: PRECICE studies, risks, & complications
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2021, 03:34:51 PM »

谢谢提醒
Logged

ask.me

  • Newbie
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29
Re: PRECICE studies, risks, & complications
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2021, 12:58:25 AM »

I'm sad that I can't edit the original post.

--
Reference: Conversation with Dr. Marie Gdalevitch

Risk factors
--
My notes --
Patient anecdotes that I have yet to find a reputable reference for, but still makes sense to me:
  • Flexibility - TBD
  • Muscles - TBD, but I think it's related to ease of recovery. If your muscles are stronger and maybe trained for damage, then PT is easier mentally and physically which results in better outcomes.
--
Reference: Dr. Hoon - yo utu.be/jIzlDeFAz_o
Found via http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=66375.msg190939#msg190939

Regenerated bone is identical to original bone.

Well-formed bones does not increase likeliness of fractures and osteoporosis.
It is on the surgeon to ensure bone is well-formed formation, particularly during the osteotomy and lengthening phase.

Nerves, muscles, and blood vessels grow during the lengthening process to an extent.
Surgeon should avoid nerve damage during operation and protect nerves during lengthening.
Blood vessels are not impacted by lengthening, if not damaged during operation.

Muscle may not recover completely.

Lengthening causes muscle tension which results in tension on the knee joints that can lead to damage to the cartilage (pain, inflammation). Rate of lengthening is an important factor here.

Lengthened legs are prone to become knocked knees. Improper leg alignment can lead arthritis long term. Surgeons entirely control alignment outcomes of LL.


--
My notes --

Muscle tension can lead to damage to cartilage - should not be an issue given compliant patient and best surgeon, but still good to know.

Minor damage to the cartilage may heal on its own, major damage if untreated may wear the joint.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/cartilage-damage/

Arthritis due to leg misalignment - not an issue given best surgeon assumption.

--
Reference: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30311058/

Average patient self-reported ability scores at post-operative two years were 94.6 and 89.9 for daily living and light sports, respectively. However, the average score for moderate-to-strenuous sports was 68.1 and 39 patients (31.2%) recorded below average score for the moderate-to-strenuous sports.

Note: Tibia LL patients, LAT/LON
--
My notes --

Since this relates to the muscle, it's probably also relevant for PRECICE patients to a degree.
--
Reference: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100927141144.htm

Regenerated nerves do not grow back perfectly.
--
My notes --

I think it's safe to assume this also applies to nerves that grow as a result of lengthening.
--
Reference: https://www.jonathanshultsmd.com/blog/spotting-the-warning-signs-of-nerve-damage

Numbness or tingling in the hands and feet
Feeling like you’re wearing a tight glove or sock
Muscle weakness, especially in your arms or legs
Regularly dropping objects that you’re holding
Sharp pains in your hands, arms, legs, or feet
A buzzing sensation that feels like a mild electrical shock

Damaged nerves can sometimes be repaired, especially if they are treated quickly after an injury. For that reason, it’s important to call us after a serious injury or when you first notice the signs of nerve damage. This is a situation in which you don’t want to wait too long because sometimes nerves reach a point of being irreparable.


--
My notes --

PNS nerves can regenerate; CNS nerves don't.
--
« Last Edit: November 05, 2021, 01:49:40 AM by ask.me »
Logged

ask.me

  • Newbie
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29
Re: PRECICE studies, risks, & complications
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2021, 05:44:32 PM »

Shout out to Dr. Donghoon Lee for making this information so accessible and understandable for the common folk.
--
Reference: you tu.be/6xZ1WA-EGVk?t=819

Heavier patients have a higher likeliness of corrosion with STRYDE.
Tibias are more susceptible to corrosion because it takes longer to heal, thus, longer length of weight bearing.
PRECICE 2.3 does not have distraction, stability related, or corrosion issues.
Aggressive rehab might make nail breakage more likely.
Higher incidence of Osteolysis in tibia compared to femurs.
--
« Last Edit: November 05, 2021, 07:51:57 PM by ask.me »
Logged

Siegfried

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 335
Re: PRECICE studies, risks, & complications
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2021, 06:00:31 PM »

What is the difference between precise 2.2 and 2.3?
Logged
Unilateral Quadrilateral Lengthening 2021/22 w/ Koehne
Pre-Surgery: 1.67 m
Post-Surgery: 1.76 m
My Story: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=68285.msg221238#msg221238

ask.me

  • Newbie
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29
Re: PRECICE studies, risks, & complications
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2021, 05:06:28 AM »

What is the difference between precise 2.2 and 2.3?

It's just the next iteration of precice 2.2. I don't do this for a living, so basically all I can say about it is the quote below. Both Dr. Assayag and Dr. Hoon have mentioned they've seen good results from PRECICE 2.

Quote from: https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2017/8032510/
First, PRECICE2 has been revised up to version 2.3 which tried to upgrade the mechanical strength and stability.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2021, 05:33:23 AM by ask.me »
Logged

ask.me

  • Newbie
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29
Re: PRECICE studies, risks, & complications
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2021, 09:29:05 PM »

Incisions and what may leave a scar after PRECICE 2.2 implants.
--
Precice 2.2 tibia -
https://www.facebook.com/limbplastx/photos/888950891716023
--
Precice 2.2 femurs -
https://www.facebook.com/limbplastx/photos/855693701708409
--
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up