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[billsmafia]

I am seeing one doctor who have patients with 11+ femur, 8+ cm tibia etc.

I thought 8cm femur and 5cm tibia were upper bound for safe length.

Some of his patients do 20 cm in two surgery. This can’t be safe to make, no?

[SirStretchAlot]

It really depends on the patient. Betz had a 19 year old male athlete do 12cm on femurs and recovered very well. I'm 29, and not an athlete, so I'm having trouble with 10cm on femurs. Most reach their tibia limit at 6.5/7cm, but again if you're a young athlete, 8cm is doable.

The limit is different for everyone. I know some 50 year old men who took 4 month to only do 7cm on femurs.

[Body Builder]

It really depends on the patient. Betz had a 19 year old male athlete do 12cm on femurs and recovered very well. I'm 29, and not an athlete, so I'm having trouble with 10cm on femurs. Most reach their tibia limit at 6.5/7cm, but again if you're a young athlete, 8cm is doable.

The limit is different for everyone. I know some 50 year old men who took 4 month to only do 7cm on femurs.

Noone will recover well from 12cm in femurs.
That 19yo you said is f@cked for life and he will find it out for sure in less than 10 years.

[billsmafia]

It really depends on the patient. Betz had a 19 year old male athlete do 12cm on femurs and recovered very well. I'm 29, and not an athlete, so I'm having trouble with 10cm on femurs. Most reach their tibia limit at 6.5/7cm, but again if you're a young athlete, 8cm is doable.

The limit is different for everyone. I know some 50 year old men who took 4 month to only do 7cm on femurs.

Yes but the issue is not the amount done but the safety.

[SirStretchAlot]

Again, I'm assuming safety means recoverability, or the likihood that you're not going to end up a cripple?

It completely depends on your age and muscle elasticity. Everyone is different. A couch potato old man, would end up with life-long problems lengthening 6cm, while a young athlete would not have problems lengthening 11cm.

8cm on Precise and Stryde are manufacturer preferences. The nails themselves become more prone to bending as they extend as well. How much you lengthen depends on how fit and young you are, and how your legs themselves feel at different lengths.

I personally had no problems lengthening until 9cm. From 9.5cm-10cm, I knew my legs were at their limit.

[Worzezterlire]

I personally had no problems lengthening until 9cm. From 9.5cm-10cm, I knew my legs were at their limit.

Interesting, consistent with my experience.  When I hit 8cm I didn’t feel like I was anywhere near my real limit, definitely could have hit 10cm if my nail allowed it.  My knee extension was 0 degrees even at full extension.  Probably for the best I didn’t attempt more than 8cm at once, though.  To me everything after 4cm felt the same. 

[Atomic]

Safety limits are set according to patients ability to regain their athletic capacity after surgery. Although the lengthening limit varies according to the genetic structure of the person, I am almost sure that people who lengthen 10 cm or more will walk like a robot (if it is called walking). If anyone lengthening 10cm or more and can run normally even if not as much as before the surgery, please share the video link and surprise me.

[Thehighest]

Safety limits are set according to patients ability to regain their athletic capacity after surgery. Although the lengthening limit varies according to the genetic structure of the person, I am almost sure that people who lengthen 10 cm or more will walk like a robot (if it is called walking). If anyone lengthening 10cm or more and can run normally even if not as much as before the surgery, please share the video link and surprise me.

Depends if 10 cm is in two segments or just in one, 10 cm in both segments is not that much actually.

[Atomic]

Depends if 10 cm is in two segments or just in one, 10 cm in both segments is not that much actually.

Yes, a total of 10 cm is an ideal amount of lengthening for two segments. Even 14-15 cm can be reached for two segments. I was talking about the femur. For the femur, greater than 8 cm is a high-risk area and recovery of athletic capacity becomes very difficult. It is out of the question for the 10 cm tibia region alone. People who want to extend their tibia by 10 cm can say goodbye to their peroneal nerves.

[SirStretchAlot]

Yes, a total of 10 cm is an ideal amount of lengthening for two segments. Even 14-15 cm can be reached for two segments. I was talking about the femur. For the femur, greater than 8 cm is a high-risk area and recovery of athletic capacity becomes very difficult. It is out of the question for the 10 cm tibia region alone. People who want to extend their tibia by 10 cm can say goodbye to their peroneal nerves.

There is no research around "8cm" being the limit from where risks become higher. It could be 7cm or 9cm. The 8cm number just came from the limit that Nuasive products allow. It carries no meaning.

I met a Betz patient who walked perfectly fine at 10cm on femurs. He is on his school's basketball team. When my gait recovers, I'll take a video too. As for athletic ability, any LLer should expect incremental decrease in performance for every cm they lengthen.

There is not a single number like 8cm or 10cm, especially given the diversity of people on this forum. 10cm is easy for a 20-year old male athlete while 8cm is near impossible for a 50-year old house wife. It's a continuous spectrum that depends on your age, gender and fitness.

[eric.cartman]

This is dependent on so many factors incl. the patient's physiology, age and other health factors. Age impacts your recovery but it doesn't mean you should go for 10+ cm just because someone else your age was successful doing so

[Atomic]

8cm is an average limit. I've seen a lot of patients, especially those who have had femoral surgery and lengthening over 10 centimeters, and almost all of them have not regained their athletic capacity. Patients who can reach their previous physical capacities after the lengthening is over are patients who do not exceed these limits. Because soft tissues have an lengthening capacity and this varies from person to person. Crossing this personalized limit causes irreversible damage to the elasticity of the muscles, and it is no longer a healthy muscle that can contract and extend properly. The example you gave is an exceptional example, and very few people can achieve it. You can search for lengthening limit ideas from many successful surgeons on this subject. Doctor Betz says that 20 cm and more lengthening can be achieved in two surgeries. Do you think this is a reasonable number? I think you should ignore this doctor's thoughts on lengthening amounts.

[SirStretchAlot]

I think 20cm is quite ridiculous, but I'm quite certain I'll recover from 10cm given my current progress. But I'll update you in 6 weeks.

[Body Builder]

There is no research around "8cm" being the limit from where risks become higher. It could be 7cm or 9cm. The 8cm number just came from the limit that Nuasive products allow. It carries no meaning.

I met a Betz patient who walked perfectly fine at 10cm on femurs. He is on his school's basketball team. When my gait recovers, I'll take a video too. As for athletic ability, any LLer should expect incremental decrease in performance for every cm they lengthen.

There is not a single number like 8cm or 10cm, especially given the diversity of people on this forum. 10cm is easy for a 20-year old male athlete while 8cm is near impossible for a 50-year old house wife. It's a continuous spectrum that depends on your age, gender and fitness.

Υes, there is not a single number to lengthen safely but there is an upper limit and this is 8cm for femurs.
With 10cm added after a few years the knees will face major problems. Almost all the ll'ers who lengthen that much ended up with pains. I already mentioned Tall who lengthened 10-11 cm (without a real reason because he was already 1.76 if I remember right) with Betz too who never told him that there would be a problem but after a few years he ended up with major knee pains.

Our bodies don't have unlimited capabilities and 8cm is a huge gain. If someone is not ok with that then the solution is another LL on tibias, not 10-12 cm lengthening which will be disastrous almost always.

[BetzLandLiberator]

Υes, there is not a single number to lengthen safely but there is an upper limit and this is 8cm for femurs.
With 10cm added after a few years the knees will face major problems. Almost all the ll'ers who lengthen that much ended up with pains. I already mentioned Tall who lengthened 10-11 cm (without a real reason because he was already 1.76 if I remember right) with Betz too who never told him that there would be a problem but after a few years he ended up with major knee pains.

Our bodies don't have unlimited capabilities and 8cm is a huge gain. If someone is not ok with that then the solution is another LL on tibias, not 10-12 cm lengthening which will be disastrous almost always.

I did 10cm with Betz (10cm on the right, 9cm on the left) in 2012. I still don't have knee pains. And I weight lift, including squats, twice or thrice a week. Maybe I'll get some knee pain in the future but so far, 9 years later, I'm still good.

But I do recommend people sticking with 8cm. Even 1cm can be a huge difference in the recovery. My 9cm leg recovered way faster (months earlier) than the 10cm. And I lost more flexibility in the 10cm leg.

[SirStretchAlot]

Great insight. I lengthened 10cm and 10.4cm, so I anticipate my recovery to be even slower. How long did it take for you to return to normal strength and gait? Thanks

[BetzLandLiberator]

Great insight. I lengthened 10cm and 10.4cm, so I anticipate my recovery to be even slower. How long did it take for you to return to normal strength and gait? Thanks

Gait I've got back to normal very quickly as soon as I left the crutches (but it took me a while to get rid of the crutches, so that gave me plenty of time to get rid of the duckass and get back to a normal gait. I also never had the wide legs problem so common with Betz's patients).

Normal leg strength I only got back after I removed the nails one year later, as I avoided squats and other strong leg lifts while I had the nails on.

[SirStretchAlot]

Nice nice. What did you do to get rid of the duck ass?

[BetzLandLiberator]

Nice nice. What did you do to get rid of the duck ass?

I walked a lot on crutches, did stationary bike, pt sessions, massages, very light weight lifting.
I spent four months in Germany after lengthening, so I followed Dr. Betz instructions to the letter.
At that time the patients stayed in the Park Hotel which is connected to the Vitalis health center and in front of a really nice park, so it was really easy to exercise, have massages and pt sessions there.

When I went back to my country I was almost duckass free (it wasn't visible anymore but I could still feel it a little bit).

[SirStretchAlot]

Oh wow. 4 months after lengthening is a pretty long time! I guess for us 10cm people, that's inevitable.