Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

don't do it if you only have a limit of 6 months. the stress of your visa running out will be a fuking nightmare in my opinion.

apply for a medical visa to encompass the entire duration such as an entire year. if you cant get at least 8 months then forget about Russia. or get LON in Russia. but full external should not be undertaken unless your visa is 8 months long.

[PrettyTall]

don't do it if you only have a limit of 6 months. the stress of your visa running out will be a fuking nightmare in my opinion.

apply for a medical visa to encompass the entire duration such as an entire year. if you cant get at least 8 months then forget about Russia. or get LON in Russia. but full external should not be undertaken unless your visa is 8 months long.

 
why not ? what about a person who don't care about being seen whit frames like me , i wanna do external stay for the first two weeks and length  home

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

I don't recommend getting surgery if you don't have access to a doctor.

ultimately you can do anything you like.

worst case scenario, you need surgery and don't have a visa. and have to wait for the visa approval which can take time.

what happens if you have premature bone consolidation.

in any case you don't need me to tell you the risks. you probably already know them. this is a 1nce in a life time surgery. I believe it should be done right.

[123]

 
why not ? what about a person who don't care about being seen whit frames like me , i wanna do external stay for the first two weeks and length  home

I wouldn't recommend this, there so many complications that can occur (and probably will).

But I don't think that your doc will even let you go home 2 weeks after the first operation, maybe after distraction, but not before that.

[Morgenst.]

I definitely would stay the six months the visa allows. By the end of it I'd be well in the consolidation stage with maybe two to three or four months remaining in the frames. I do think there's a lot less risk in doing that than simply taking off as soon as lengthening is done, due to the fact that by then I'll have been consolidating for least two months. So the rate of regeneration should be well established by then. I figured once I get back to the US I can take X-rays biweekly or so send them to the Dr while keeping up with all the aftercare necessary and go from there. Worst case scenario I have dr Rozbruch in NY right by me and I can consult with him should anything go wrong.

[Ajax2thousand20]

People are stupid. South Africa is a developed nation. Everyone knows that.

The only thing that turned me off about going to Birkholtz was him mentioning that amputated the leg is a possibility. I know something like that probably won't happen and don't know if it has but it's not a risk I'm willing to take.

[123]

The only thing that turned me off about going to Birkholtz was him mentioning that amputated the leg is a possibility. I know something like that probably won't happen and don't know if it has but it's not a risk I'm willing to take.

That can happen with any doctor, he's just honest.

[TRS]

The only thing that turned me off about going to Birkholtz was him mentioning that amputated the leg is a possibility. I know something like that probably won't happen and don't know if it has but it's not a risk I'm willing to take.

He is being honest about the worst possible outcome of LL which includes ampuation. It is important for prospective LL'ers to know that complications such as severe osteomyelitis, non-union, compartment syndrome and nerve damage can possibly lead to amputation. Keep in mind that death is also a possibility and it can happen with any surgeon.   

[Ajax2thousand20]

Yes right. I'm aware anything is possible and there is a price to pay for altering the anatomy of your body. The way he said it made it sound like the chances were greater with him that's all.
What are the odds of losing a limb and death (from the mental anguish or severe pain)
and has they're been any reports of them from any ll patient or forum? Also, is it more likely this would happen on exceeding 5 cms or 7.5 cms or even below 5cms?

[Blackhawk]

Yes right. I'm aware anything is possible and there is a price to pay for altering the anatomy of your body. The way he said it made it sound like the chances were greater with him that's all.
What are the odds of losing a limb and death (from the mental anguish or severe pain)
and has they're been any reports of them from any ll patient or forum? Also, is it more likely this would happen on exceeding 5 cms or 7.5 cms or even below 5cms?

I have read a lot if diaries and articles about LL the last couple of years but I haven't read any personal accounts of amputation.  There are a lot of unfinished diaries and LLers that seem to disappear.  That always concerns me and I think about the bad things that may have happened to them.

[123]

Yes right. I'm aware anything is possible and there is a price to pay for altering the anatomy of your body. The way he said it made it sound like the chances were greater with him that's all.
What are the odds of losing a limb and death (from the mental anguish or severe pain)
and has they're been any reports of them from any ll patient or forum? Also, is it more likely this would happen on exceeding 5 cms or 7.5 cms or even below 5cms?

That can happen quite fast, it doesn't really matter how much you lengthen, a bone infection can always happen and if the antibiotics won't work and the OP is not a success an amputation is the last possible way to save you from death. Also a deep vein thrombosis, which can cause a pulmonary embolism, can kill you, that happens quite often.

[Ajax2thousand20]

That can happen quite fast, it doesn't really matter how much you lengthen, a bone infection can always happen and if the antibiotics won't work and the OP is not a success an amputation is the last possible way to save you from death. Also a deep vein thrombosis, which can cause a pulmonary embolism, can kill you, that happens quite often.

Yeah. I can just imagine something went wrong with the unfinished Mahboubian Diary on here Such a sleazy doctor.

[ReadRothbard]

There has never been a case of amputation with ll. I don't know what you're talking about.

[goodlucktomylegs]

I'm very scare word"amputation"

[TRS]

Yes right. I'm aware anything is possible and there is a price to pay for altering the anatomy of your body. The way he said it made it sound like the chances were greater with him that's all.
What are the odds of losing a limb and death (from the mental anguish or severe pain)
and has they're been any reports of them from any ll patient or forum? Also, is it more likely this would happen on exceeding 5 cms or 7.5 cms or even below 5cms?

Chances of amputation or death is very slim to zero with a good surgeon. Deep infection, embolism and compartment syndrome can happen regardless of how much you lengthen, the latter two mostly happens after surgery. Non-union could be multifactorial and nerve damage could happen with higher lengthening amount. There have not been any reported amputation cases in forum patient diaries but I have read studies that exclude some patients from the study because their outcome was amputation. They don't state the reason why they were amputated but these patients did have pre-existing trauma before fixation and some resulted in osteomyelitis and non-union. Compartment syndrome, complex non-union and osteomyelitis resulting to amputation have been reported in studies.
Just remember that these are worst possible outcomes to LL, although rare with a good surgeon. Judging from some of the posts in this forum, it seems that some prospective LL'ers take this surgery very lightly and believe that they're immune to very serious complications. It's not a good idea to be overconfident. You must consider and accept the worst case scenario before LL. A forum member did experience a life threatening condition a day after his surgery and he immediately had to be shifted to the ICU unit, despite having surgery with the best. His experience was horrifying and seriously made me reconsider LL. It was an eye opener. I believe that majority of serious complications related to LL will not be reported in LL forums and only a very few percent of LL patients do have diaries. 
       

[Ajax2thousand20]

Chances of amputation or death is very slim to zero with a good surgeon. Deep infection, embolism and compartment syndrome can happen regardless of how much you lengthen, the latter two mostly happens after surgery. Non-union could be multifactorial and nerve damage could happen with higher lengthening amount. There have not been any reported amputation cases in forum patient diaries but I have read studies that exclude some patients from the study because their outcome was amputation. They don't state the reason why they were amputated but these patients did have pre-existing trauma before fixation and some resulted in osteomyelitis and non-union. Compartment syndrome, complex non-union and osteomyelitis resulting to amputation have been reported in studies.
Just remember that these are worst possible outcomes to LL, although rare with a good surgeon. Judging from some of the posts in this forum, it seems that some prospective LL'ers take this surgery very lightly and believe that they're immune to very serious complications. It's not a good idea to be overconfident. You must consider and accept the worst case scenario before LL. A forum member did experience a life threatening condition a day after his surgery and he immediately had to be shifted to the ICU unit, despite having surgery with the best. His experience was horrifying and seriously made me reconsider LL. It was an eye opener. I believe that majority of serious complications related to LL will not be reported in LL forums and only a very few percent of LL patients do have diaries. 
     

Yes I know. I knew that the outcome of losing life or a limb is very unlikely to happen but they're is still a chance. I think the fact that Dr. Birkholtz brought it up made me think that it happened under his supervision. I do not think I would lose a limb or die doing this operation but I do know that you are going to lose something with this surgery because no matter how successful the operation is you'll lose something like job promotion, personal relationships, lose of athletic ability etc. In my case, I think it's definitely worth going to various countries to get a good view of what it's like because all though I want this surgery more than almost anything, I know the thing that I want most could destroy me in the end even If I don't die or lose a limb.

[TRS]

Yes I know. I knew that the outcome of losing life or a limb is very unlikely to happen but they're is still a chance. I think the fact that Dr. Birkholtz brought it up made me think that it happened under his supervision. I do not think I would lose a limb or die doing this operation but I do know that you are going to lose something with this surgery because no matter how successful the operation is you'll lose something like job promotion, personal relationships, lose of athletic ability etc. In my case, I think it's definitely worth going to various countries to get a good view of what it's like because all though I want this surgery more than almost anything, I know the thing that I want most could destroy me in the end even If I don't die or lose a limb.

I remember the initial reaction in Dr.B's page when he mentioned amputation and was derided by several forum members. But as a prospective LL patient I would want to hear the worst case scenario before entering the operation theatre. Sometimes patients only like to hear what they want to hear and many doctors can take advantage of this, but a good doctor will always let their patients know about the worst possible outcome and not guarantee anything with a risky surgery.

[Moubgf]

mehh if its amputation, Just end your own life fast easy. Not alot lost. But if you gain that new height. life begins. 50-50. Only the worthy survive

[Ajax2thousand20]

mehh if its amputation, Just end your own life fast easy. Not alot lost. But if you gain that new height. life begins. 50-50. Only the worthy survive

Don't agree. Some doctors are driven by greed and not your safety. Build a strong repport with your doc and if you genuinely trust him/her, you'll probably be okay.

[Metanoia]

Chances of amputation or death is very slim to zero with a good surgeon. Deep infection, embolism and compartment syndrome can happen regardless of how much you lengthen, the latter two mostly happens after surgery. Non-union could be multifactorial and nerve damage could happen with higher lengthening amount. There have not been any reported amputation cases in forum patient diaries but I have read studies that exclude some patients from the study because their outcome was amputation. They don't state the reason why they were amputated but these patients did have pre-existing trauma before fixation and some resulted in osteomyelitis and non-union. Compartment syndrome, complex non-union and osteomyelitis resulting to amputation have been reported in studies.
Just remember that these are worst possible outcomes to LL, although rare with a good surgeon. Judging from some of the posts in this forum, it seems that some prospective LL'ers take this surgery very lightly and believe that they're immune to very serious complications. It's not a good idea to be overconfident. You must consider and accept the worst case scenario before LL. A forum member did experience a life threatening condition a day after his surgery and he immediately had to be shifted to the ICU unit, despite having surgery with the best. His experience was horrifying and seriously made me reconsider LL. It was an eye opener. I believe that majority of serious complications related to LL will not be reported in LL forums and only a very few percent of LL patients do have diaries. 
     

Very good comment. There's a clear bias in the forums not to show the complications. I have been attacked several times for writing about what i have seen at a very popular doctor. Nobody gets attacked for writing nice things. Even patients with diaries try to hide negative things (they are still under treatment , how could they dare openly criticise their doctors? ) . They rather stop writing or simply don't tell the truth.
I personally believe if i went to India my experience wouldn't have been worse than what has happened to me in Germany.

[alps]

Chances of amputation or death is very slim to zero with a good surgeon. Deep infection, embolism and compartment syndrome can happen regardless of how much you lengthen, the latter two mostly happens after surgery. Non-union could be multifactorial and nerve damage could happen with higher lengthening amount. There have not been any reported amputation cases in forum patient diaries but I have read studies that exclude some patients from the study because their outcome was amputation. They don't state the reason why they were amputated but these patients did have pre-existing trauma before fixation and some resulted in osteomyelitis and non-union. Compartment syndrome, complex non-union and osteomyelitis resulting to amputation have been reported in studies.
Just remember that these are worst possible outcomes to LL, although rare with a good surgeon. Judging from some of the posts in this forum, it seems that some prospective LL'ers take this surgery very lightly and believe that they're immune to very serious complications. It's not a good idea to be overconfident. You must consider and accept the worst case scenario before LL. A forum member did experience a life threatening condition a day after his surgery and he immediately had to be shifted to the ICU unit, despite having surgery with the best. His experience was horrifying and seriously made me reconsider LL. It was an eye opener. I believe that majority of serious complications related to LL will not be reported in LL forums and only a very few percent of LL patients do have diaries. 
     

Questions rising shorty,
1. Why will non-union lead to amputation? Worst case let it stay unconsolidated, walk with crutches all your life.
2. Are there sudden "signs" of these dangers: nerve damage and compartment syndrome? So that you can stop lengthening in a timely fashion? It's not like you go to bed doing 1mm and the next morning it's over, right?
3. You seem to have a tone of someone prepared for this kind of stuff? Could you have really lived through if you faced a leg amputation? I don't understand how someone who feels so unhappy being short and considers a ridiculously crazy procedure can accept such an adverse outcome. No offense, just curious.

[alps]

mehh if its amputation, Just end your own life fast easy. Not alot lost. But if you gain that new height. life begins. 50-50. Only the worthy survive

how do you suggest we end our own lives?

[123]

Very good comment. There's a clear bias in the forums not to show the complications. I have been attacked several times for writing about what i have seen at a very popular doctor. Nobody gets attacked for writing nice things. Even patients with diaries try to hide negative things (they are still under treatment , how could they dare openly criticise their doctors? ) . They rather stop writing or simply don't tell the truth.
I personally believe if i went to India my experience wouldn't have been worse than what has happened to me in Germany.

What happened to you?

[goodlucktomylegs]

Very good comment. There's a clear bias in the forums not to show the complications. I have been attacked several times for writing about what i have seen at a very popular doctor. Nobody gets attacked for writing nice things. Even patients with diaries try to hide negative things (they are still under treatment , how could they dare openly criticise their doctors? ) . They rather stop writing or simply don't tell the truth.
I personally believe if i went to India my experience wouldn't have been worse than what has happened to me in Germany.

I'm very sorry to  hear that
Get well soon

[TRS]

Very good comment. There's a clear bias in the forums not to show the complications. I have been attacked several times for writing about what i have seen at a very popular doctor. Nobody gets attacked for writing nice things. Even patients with diaries try to hide negative things (they are still under treatment , how could they dare openly criticise their doctors? ) . They rather stop writing or simply don't tell the truth.
I personally believe if i went to India my experience wouldn't have been worse than what has happened to me in Germany.

Unfortunately many people do dismiss things they don't want to hear. I'm really sorry for what you have gone through and I hope you do recover soon.

Questions rising shorty,
1. Why will non-union lead to amputation? Worst case let it stay unconsolidated, walk with crutches all your life.

Not all non-unions will lead to amputation. These days many cases are resolved with proper Ilizarov techniques, stem cells and growth factors but for some people non-union can last for many years or even life time and face complications such as fractures and infections. So they opt for amputation. Here is a study on non-unions http://actaorthopaedica.be/acta/download/2000-3/laursen-lass.pdf. There is one patient who requested amputation because he suffered from non-union, complications, disability and severe pain for 15 years.

2. Are there sudden "signs" of these dangers: nerve damage and compartment syndrome? So that you can stop lengthening in a timely fashion? It's not like you go to bed doing 1mm and the next morning it's over, right?

Yes, there are sudden signs of compartment syndrome and embolism
Here are some notes I prepared before my surgery and stored in my laptop for reference. You can call me crazy lol.
Compartment Syndrome
http://www.medicinenet.com/compartment_syndrome/article.htm
Signs:
Bleeding causes compartment pressure to rise and diminishes blood supply to nerves and muscles leading to:
-Pain exceeding the expectation of trauma
-Paresthesia (change in sensation) e.g tingling, tickling, prickling or burning of skin, pins and needles
-Paralysis of limb
-Tightness
-Bruising
-Swelling
Risks:
-Occurs hours or days after trauma
-Trauma include surgery, muscle, vascular damage
-Person with a history of anticoagulants
-Dressing, casts, splints constricting affected parts
-Permanent nerve and muscle damage mostly occur if patient is unconscious or heavily sedated, failing to report pain. Can occur 12-24 hours after compression
Treatment:
-Fasciotomy (making long incision on skin and fascia to release pressure)
-Removing cast, splints and dressing
Prevention:
-Early diagnosis and treatment should prevent complications
-People with cast should report pain under cast due to swelling, despite taking pain medications
Fat Embolism
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2700578/
Signs:
-Occurs 24-72 hours after surgery/trauma (maximum at 48 hours)
-Tachypnea (rapid breathing)
-Dyspnea (shortness of breath)
-Cyanosis (blue/purple discolouration of skin) in head, neck, thorax, sub conjunctiva, underarm
-Hypoxia (oxygen deprivation in body or region of body) Maybe detected hours before respiratory problems
-Cerebral problems e.g. confusion, drowsiness, rigidity, convulsions(rapid muscle contraction and relaxation) 
-Tachycardia (rapid resting heart rate)
-Jaundice
Risks:
-Trauma of pelvis and long bones
-Overzealous nailing of the medullary canal
-Reaming the medullary canal
-Increased velocity of reaming
-Increase in gap between nail and cortical bone
Treatment:
-Mechanical ventilation to maintain arterial oxygenation
-Albumin with electrolyte solution to restore blood volume and bind to the fatty acids to decrease lung injury
Prevention:
-The use of plates and external frame or smaller diameter nails decreases FES by reducing injury instead of nailing and reaming the medullary canal
-Using a pulse oximeter to monitor 02 saturation in blood therefore early desaturation will allow early oxygenation treatment to decrease hypoxic and systemic damage
-Preoperative use of methylprednisolone may prevent FES
Pulmonary Embolism
Cause
Blockage of lung artery from a blood clot developed in the deep leg veins.
Signs:
-Sudden shortness of breath
-Sharp chest pain and worse especially after cough or deep breath
-Pink foamy mucous cough/bloody cough
-Sweat a lot
-Anxiety
-Light headedness/faint
-Fast heart rate/breathing rate/irregular heart beat
-Heart palpitation
-Signs of shock
Risks:
- Surgery involving both legs/breaking bones where arteries/veins are affected
-Inherited risk of developing clots
-Slowed blood flow from long term bed rests after surgery, sitting for a long time, leg paralysis
-Abnormal blood clotting from blood vessel injury
-Not taking anticoagulents
Treatment:
-Anticoagulants (3 months after embolism or through life if risk remains high)
Hospital use of IV or shots/Home use via tablets
Slow down clot development and prevent clots getting bigger. But do not break up or dissolve existing blood clots
-Thrombolytics for extreme life threatening situations
All thrombolytics are capable of causing serious bleeding and capable of causing stroke and death.
-Embolectomy via surgery or catheter into the blood vessel
For patients with life threatening clots and cannot wait for medicine to work or for other failed treatments. Increases chance of developing more clots.
-Vena cava insertion into large central abdominal vein after failed anticoagulant treatment or bleeding risks fem anticoagulants. Or if a patient has an increase risk of death or restricted lifestyle for a recurrent emboli. Can break or be blocked with blood clots.
Prevention:
-Daily use of anticoagulants stops formation of new blood clots and prevents further growth of existing clots.
-Movement after surgery
-Compression stockings

For nerve damage, signs will be tingling, severe pain, loss/abnormal sensation, paralysis and loss of motor control.

3. You seem to have a tone of someone prepared for this kind of stuff? Could you have really lived through if you faced a leg amputation? I don't understand how someone who feels so unhappy being short and considers a ridiculously crazy procedure can accept such an adverse outcome. No offense, just curious.

Good question.
Yes I did prepare myself for the worst and I feel that in order to be ideal candidate for LL, people must consider whether they will be able to cope with the worst case scenario of amputation and whether others will cope in an unfortunate event of death. You may laugh at me but I made a will before I left for SA just to prepare for the worse. Personally, if I did lose my limbs then I would try and find solace knowing that I did try my best to fight the constant heightism I suffered for the past 20 years. I would then try and find happiness while being an amputee and not go straight into taking my own life.

[alps]

Yes, there are sudden signs of compartment syndrome and embolism

I went through those links, but some aspects of limb lengthening are not particularly addressed.
What I think now is that the "risky" part is during the surgery. After the surgery once you start lengthening, the worst outcomes can be poor recovery and non-union. I was wondering if everyday is a dread whilst lengthening, because nerve damage and contractures can happen even while lengthening as you indicated.

Good question.
Yes I did prepare myself for the worst and I feel that in order to be ideal candidate for LL, people must consider whether they will be able to cope with the worst case scenario of amputation and whether others will cope in an unfortunate event of death. You may laugh at me but I made a will before I left for SA just to prepare for the worse. Personally, if I did lose my limbs then I would try and find solace knowing that I did try my best to fight the constant heightism I suffered for the past 20 years. I would then try and find happiness while being an amputee and not go straight into taking my own life.

Is there a way to tell the doctor to euthanize you if things one of the worst outcomes happen and you have no control after that.

Do you think someone who has no motivation to live if the worst case of amputation happens is a good LL candidate? if not, why not?

[TRS]

I went through those links, but some aspects of limb lengthening are not particularly addressed.

Some of the links only describe and address the condition itself. They are from general medical websites not specialising in LL but provide very helpful information on conditions that can manifest after LL surgery.

What I think now is that the "risky" part is during the surgery. After the surgery once you start lengthening, the worst outcomes can be poor recovery and non-union. I was wondering if everyday is a dread whilst lengthening, because nerve damage and contractures can happen even while lengthening as you indicated.

Yes the surgery itself is very risky and it is of vital importance to go to a experienced surgeon who specialises in LL. I'd consider the entire LL phase to be risky because the latency period after surgery is when chances of compartment syndrome,embolism and deep infection to be at its peak. The risk of embolism can also present during distraction and that is why some surgeons continue anticoagulant treatment with their patients.
You're right about the risk of nerve damage, contractures, delayed/non-union and poor recovery during distraction phase. Don't forget the risk of device malfunction. And then the chance of refracture and poor recovery during consolidation.

Is there a way to tell the doctor to euthanize you if things one of the worst outcomes happen and you have no control after that.

It depends where you reside. It's illegal where I live but maybe possible in your country.

Do you think someone who has no motivation to live if the worst case of amputation happens is a good LL candidate? if not, why not?

This is a very difficult question to answer to be honest since the views will be highly subjective. If height is the major cause of suffering and preventing one from living a normal life then that particular person would be a good candidate for LL, regardless whether he has the motivation to live after the worst case of amputation. Instead people should ask themselves whether they have the motivation to live at their current height? Remember that chances of amputation is almost zero with a good surgeon.

[alps]

How was your mentality whilst lengthening?
Were you scared all the time about such possibilities like you probably were scared just before surgery?

[TRS]

How was your mentality whilst lengthening?
Were you scared all the time about such possibilities like you probably were scared just before surgery?

Pre-op nerves was the worst. The week before LL was very emotional and my flight to SA was possibly the worst flight ever because of the constant thought of whether I would make it through LL. After my consultation with Dr.B I looked forward to my surgery and just wanted to get over with it. I was really excited when they took me to the operation theatre the next day. I felt very euphoric and relieved right after surgery. During lengthening I was constantly occupied with the fear of nail failure and failing to reach my target. Other complications like nerve damage was the least of my concern because I paid very close attention to how my legs responded during lengthening. Fortunately I did not have any complications like nerve pain and contractures. The social isolation and the monotonous days during lengthening did have a toll on me but I kept my self busy with physio, cooking, reading study materials, TV, music etc..

[History101]

I wrote a response on this article regarding knee pain: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=1562.msg24774#new

But I thought this would be a good area to post it as well, and hopefully it will help people make better, more informed decisions regarding their limb lengthening journey and their fate:

1. Pain when kneeling on a hard surface, occasional discomfort when walking.   Nothing at all when standing still.
2. None, really.  I can still kneel.
3. 3-4 when kneeling on a hard surface, 1 occasionally when walking.

I get pain too when kneeling on hard surfaces and I never had anything inserted into my knees. I also feel discomfort when walking for long periods of time, as well my feet ache (like normal people do)...All of these "issues" were always there, even before my Femur lengthening.

I think most normal, healthy people, if they had to kneel or "walk on their knees" on a hard surface will get some type of pain or discomfort.

On a side note: I also receive discomfort when using my Elbows to crawl on a hard surface as well even though I never receive shoulder surgery.

That is why we cannot be so rash to form conclusions based on small sample sizes.

Hence, why, for example, in Japanese or Asian cultures where is kneeling is customary, people are aware of the discomfort of kneeling on hard surfaces and oftentimes use pillows, mats, or other cushions when kneeling to give comfort.

http://www.istockphoto.com/photo/japanese-couple-kneeling-on-a-tatami-mat-in-traditional-way-18936481

http://www.istockphoto.com/photo/japanese-couple-kneeling-on-a-tatami-mat-in-traditional-way-18936481

The most important thing is as you have no pain or discomfort when functioning in daily life such as standing or walking, then one could say that your knees are relatively healthy and is in line with the general population.

For example, I read many articles of people who never underwent LL but still get knee pain for a variety of other reasons such as being overweight, being inactive, sports injuries, arthritis, diseases, Old Age and more.

I also read and personally witnessed people who were involved in traumatic injuries which required Metal rods; many of them had little to no issues whereas others complained about pain while being mobile and functioning in daily life. Whether that pain is because of their accident trauma or because of the IM Nail insertion is debatable.

I work in the medical field and see many cases of people who had IM Nail inserted through their knees and they are functioning 100% fine, lead an active lifestyle, and can do everything they usually do.

Also, I have personally witnessed other people who have never done LL still get knee pains even though there was no insertion trauma. Generally, they can barely stand for long periods and walk with pain. Some of these people cannot function in day to day life without pain or disability.
They have other issues which has caused knee pains such as being overweight, weak or unbalanced leg muscles, being inactive, unhealthy lifestyle, arthritis, diseases, from Old Age, and more.
This is a far cry from the "Superman" MDOW who can function in everyday life, and in his words,"feels stronger after my limb lengthening then before" and could lift more after his Limb lengthening then before it.

Finally, I have had the fortune to communicate with old patients who underwent Limb Lengthening with Rod Insertion (LON And LATN) and they have told me they experienced nothing negative longterm and fully recovered...even the Indian Doctor ones like sarin. Look at people like Smallguy, Captain America, or Calic.

So essentially saying, medical and biological responses are incredibly complex with many variables from a person's history, their bodies ability to heal, or many other countless variables so we cannot jump into rash final conclusions based on a very small sample size of a few active forum members.

Also, remember that the proper insertion of IM Nall for healthy patients who undergo Limb Lengthening in controlled way is different from the patients who experienced trauma, accidents or injuries and require emergency IM Nail insertion on top of their injuries and other variables.

Remember, correlation does not equal causation.

[Moubgf]

I wrote a response on this article regarding knee pain: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=1562.msg24774#new

But I thought this would be a good area to post it as well, and hopefully it will help people make better, more informed decisions regarding their limb lengthening journey and their fate:

I get pain too when kneeling on hard surfaces and I never had anything inserted into my knees. I also feel discomfort when walking for long periods of time, as well my feet ache (like normal people do)...All of these "issues" were always there, even before my Femur lengthening.

I think most normal, healthy people, if they had to kneel or "walk on their knees" on a hard surface will get some type of pain or discomfort.

On a side note: I also receive discomfort when using my Elbows to crawl on a hard surface as well even though I never receive shoulder surgery.

That is why we cannot be so rash to form conclusions based on small sample sizes.

Hence, why, for example, in Japanese or Asian cultures where is kneeling is customary, people are aware of the discomfort of kneeling on hard surfaces and oftentimes use pillows, mats, or other cushions when kneeling to give comfort.

http://www.istockphoto.com/photo/japanese-couple-kneeling-on-a-tatami-mat-in-traditional-way-18936481

http://www.istockphoto.com/photo/japanese-couple-kneeling-on-a-tatami-mat-in-traditional-way-18936481

The most important thing is as you have no pain or discomfort when functioning in daily life such as standing or walking, then one could say that your knees are relatively healthy and is in line with the general population.

For example, I read many articles of people who never underwent LL but still get knee pain for a variety of other reasons such as being overweight, being inactive, sports injuries, arthritis, diseases, Old Age and more.

I also read and personally witnessed people who were involved in traumatic injuries which required Metal rods; many of them had little to no issues whereas others complained about pain while being mobile and functioning in daily life. Whether that pain is because of their accident trauma or because of the IM Nail insertion is debatable.

I work in the medical field and see many cases of people who had IM Nail inserted through their knees and they are functioning 100% fine, lead an active lifestyle, and can do everything they usually do.

Also, I have personally witnessed other people who have never done LL still get knee pains even though there was no insertion trauma. Generally, they can barely stand for long periods and walk with pain. Some of these people cannot function in day to day life without pain or disability.
They have other issues which has caused knee pains such as being overweight, weak or unbalanced leg muscles, being inactive, unhealthy lifestyle, arthritis, diseases, from Old Age, and more.
This is a far cry from the "Superman" MDOW who can function in everyday life, and in his words,"feels stronger after my limb lengthening then before" and could lift more after his Limb lengthening then before it.

Finally, I have had the fortune to communicate with old patients who underwent Limb Lengthening with Rod Insertion (LON And LATN) and they have told me they experienced nothing negative longterm and fully recovered...even the Indian Doctor ones like sarin. Look at people like Smallguy, Captain America, or Calic.

So essentially saying, medical and biological responses are incredibly complex with many variables from a person's history, their bodies ability to heal, or many other countless variables so we cannot jump into rash final conclusions based on a very small sample size of a few active forum members.

Also, remember that the proper insertion of IM Nall for healthy patients who undergo Limb Lengthening in controlled way is different from the patients who experienced trauma, accidents or injuries and require emergency IM Nail insertion on top of their injuries and other variables.

Remember, correlation does not equal causation.

why is he on the floor crawling in the first place? have not done it before the surgery and sure as hell wont become sports magasine #1 loverboy after.

Aslong as i can walk down to the supermarket with my girlfriend and take a ice cream. Or go to a festival and watch some shows i am all good.