Topic: as anyone done 8cm on tibias and regained athletic ability. (Read 5262 times)

LL2022 · « **Reply #31 on:** July 19, 2021, 05:35:23 AM »

I would persobally definitely be happy with 174-175cm! It's the fact that I did something that is deemed "impossible". Living cheaply, working extra hard while in Uni, learning how to invest your money, research and due dilligence of surgery related things. Last but not least, to voluntarily break your legs and go through a painful and hellish process for months all on your own. If I don't become happy about going all this, I do not deserve to be taller.

It looks like Buldu removed the prices on his sites, and I cant find his personal contact information ;(

Anyhow I contacted AFA unddr Dr Innan and their LON package without food + accommodation costs 14k Euros. It also looks tempting due to Dr Innans experience. But little sceptical since haven't heard alot of him and AFA here

Growing · « **Reply #32 on:** July 20, 2021, 08:31:57 AM »

Quote from: RichTheGreat on July 17, 2021, 07:02:57 AM

Man, you are literally me, same age, same height and similar family situation. except im from Sweden. Let's say I have it arguably worse here where the average height is probably 182 cm for males my age hahah.

Likewise I have unsupportive parents so I have managed to save up for the 22k LON package in Turkey with Buldu. I just have to logistically figure out when to do the surgery since I still have 2 years of Uni left. I'm thinking of next year in June when I have my summer break. Obviously I can't let my parents or friends know about this either so I plan to stay the full 90 days in Turkey, If I wanna stay longer I'll have to be absent from classes, renew my visa and pay more for the accomdation. Luckily I live in my own student apartment so I can somewhat avoid my family.

I'm planning on LON Tibias - > 5,3cm. 0,8-0,85mm of lenghtning everyday so approximately 5 days of post surgery recovery before lenghtning, 65 days of lenghtning which leaves me with 20 days for bone healing and consolidation with PT and under the doctor's supervision.

Sorry for hijacking the thread... I just thought it would make the procesa extremely less painful physically and mentally if I could make a friend who go through the same hellish process.

Edit: this post was supposed to be a reply toLeoGb

Sound like a plan. What made you decide to do the tibias vs femur? Im still not sure which one I want to do. I hear tibias have a faster recovery.

Growing · « **Reply #33 on:** July 20, 2021, 08:42:02 AM »

Quote from: dexter1930 on July 11, 2021, 06:42:20 PM

thanks, I'm doing good at the end of the distraction, no painkiller needed and I can't wait to remove the frame to learn how to walk and get back to normal life again so I'm expecting absolute recovery post op.
my doctor is in HCM, he doesn't treat foreigners. He does CLL regularly but mostly dealing with discrepancy patients or any cases related to lower half
However, you can do it in Ha Noi. This is a biggest clinic with experienced dr there. I believe they do offer a total package for foreigners.
here is their link
https://www.facebook.com/keodaichandrdoan/
https://keodaichan.vn/ly-do-nen-chon/
I did NOT do it there simply because of the distance and I also believe it can be done with my doctor in HCM too, not a too risky surgery if everything gets done correctly and you your homework, you'll be fine. Notice, I do know A LOT of patients there through chatting app in VN so I know how they charge and shed some light for you
about the total package you should expect if you do it in Ha Noi, I can provide a closed up number
-flight ticket: idk you do the math
-2 surgery: attachment and removal of the frame: 8K. You will stay in the hospital for 10 days before discharge to your hotel
- Hotel: with water, electricity, wify....you should spend no more than 400$ per month for a NICE, CLEAN apartment 1-2 toilets, 2 bedrooms, 1 living room, 1 kitchen, balcony, ...You should also find a cheaper one easily but you need local people to look for this
- supplement, drugs, bandages, tapper,...etc : no more than 1.5k
- food: let just say you eat 5 times per day with big ass meal, fruits, snacks,....etc all are ordered so this can cost 400$ per month. This can be cheaper if you hire a caretaker, she will cook for you so you will pay less for food
- wheelchair. crunches: 40$
- care taker: I hire a mine 250$ per month/everyday no day off, he cooks for me and shows up from 12am-7pm.
- pt: they do provide in house pt, this guy charges 15$/ hour

So these are some major stuff that I can think of. Let's say you stay for 6 months and can you do the math. Lemme know if this helps

This is very informativ. Do you know if theirs any docs in Vietnam that can do leg straightening and limb lengthening at the same time? I know Baldu does it. But if I can find a more affordable option that would be awesome. Also may I ask what made you go for tibia lengthening vs femurs? Saw you mentioned that you was 28, bro your still a young man lol.. I'm 34 and depending on who I'm converting with still see's me as a young young, so I guess its all perspective. But we are all still in our prime with a lot of years ahead of us.

Medium Drink Of Water · « **Reply #34 on:** July 20, 2021, 01:01:34 PM »

Every doctor who does LL can do straightening. You can get a small amount of straightening from an internal nail, but for a lot you need an external device.

10cmOnTibiaOrGTFO · « **Reply #35 on:** July 20, 2021, 02:47:17 PM »

28 is already old and at 34 you re invisible to women

MakeMeTallAF · « **Reply #36 on:** July 20, 2021, 08:54:47 PM »

Quote from: 10cmOnTibiaOrGTFO on July 20, 2021, 02:47:17 PM

28 is already old and at 34 you re invisible to women

That's only because you're ugly bro

LeoGb · « **Reply #37 on:** July 20, 2021, 11:10:36 PM »

Quote from: Growing on July 20, 2021, 08:31:57 AM

Sound like a plan. What made you decide to do the tibias vs femur? Im still not sure which one I want to do. I hear tibias have a faster recovery.

No, the tibias are less painful, but the femurs recover faster. The problem is that there is a theory that in the future the tibias can bring some problems if you try to lengthen them too much, the advisable thing according to the best doctors of LL, is to lengthen maximum between 3-5 cm, more than 5 cm can generate complications in the future. While the safe barrier for femurs is between 7-8 cm, if you are going to pay a lot of money for this surgery the most sensible thing would be to go for the maximum possible safe lengthening, that is why in my case I opt for femurs, because I also feel that there is less likelihood of future complications.

LeoGb · « **Reply #38 on:** July 20, 2021, 11:21:38 PM »

Quote from: RichTheGreat on July 19, 2021, 05:35:23 AM

I would persobally definitely be happy with 174-175cm! It's the fact that I did something that is deemed "impossible". Living cheaply, working extra hard while in Uni, learning how to invest your money, research and due dilligence of surgery related things. Last but not least, to voluntarily break your legs and go through a painful and hellish process for months all on your own. If I don't become happy about going all this, I do not deserve to be taller.

It looks like Buldu removed the prices on his sites, and I cant find his personal contact information ;(

Anyhow I contacted AFA unddr Dr Innan and their LON package without food + accommodation costs 14k Euros. It also looks tempting due to Dr Innans experience. But little sceptical since haven't heard alot of him and AFA here

If I remember correctly, the prices were as follows, N1 16k EUROS for just the surgery, hospitalization and I think a few days of hotel. N2 18.5k, basically brings the same as the 16k package but this price includes the extraction once you finish the lengthening, and N3 which is 22k, includes lodging during the whole lengthening stage, physiotherapy, breakfast (I don't know if it includes the 3 meals) and I have no idea if it includes the x-rays, which as far as I know, cost 100 euros and they are done in your room. I know that there are some guys on this forum who negotiated directly with Buldu, and one of them got the 16k package for 15k, and another one got the 22k for 20k.

AimHigh · « **Reply #39 on:** July 21, 2021, 12:47:38 AM »

Men remain fertile well into old age, A man who looks after himself is more attractive in his 30's and has, also he becomes more calm and a better father. In a Womans 30's she rapidly become less fertile, less attractive and is truly tired of the "bad boy" losers of her 20's.
Truth is Women want resources, and as a Man ages he gathers more resources and skills - Men age like fine wine, Women age like Milk.

talgal · « **Reply #40 on:** October 22, 2021, 05:11:03 PM »

Quote from: LeoGb on July 16, 2021, 11:21:52 PM

Thank you for your attention and your answers Dexter, I hope you have been well today. I am 22 years old and I have had a complex since I was 15 years old, this has led my life to be a martyrdom, I am not that short, I am 1.68, but living in a country like Canada where the new generation of young people are almost mostly measuring 1.80, it is complicated. The problem is that my parents would not support me, my father does not know about my height complex, actually the only person who knows about it is my mother and when I told her about the surgery, it was an absolute no, I have the money to do the surgery, and I have the money for the stay, either in Turkey or in Vietnam, I think I could invest a maximum of 27k USD in this procedure, which would be something like 55% of my life savings, but what causes me a big conflict is to go maybe 5 months and come back to Canada with a walker or on crutches, because I think my mother would not stand it. My idea is very crazy, but my intention is that no one finds out, I can say that I will go for work to another city, but I could not sustain it if I return at any given time with really affected mobility. Not that I want to run around and do everything at 6 months, but if I at least knew for sure that I could walk relatively without much difficulty, that would be great. And yes, Dr Doan clarified that he didn't do femurs, I'd have to take my measurements to see if it's wise to have my tibias operated on as well. I had been thinking of going maybe mid January 2022, to get away from the Canadian winter.

Hi LeoGB, new here and just saw your posts about choosing between Dr. Buldu and Dr. Doan. I actually got the same reply from Dr. Doan’s team regarding the packages. I also messaged Dr. Buldu and got a reply from someone named Sedat on WhatsApp. Their prices sure seem good for a student like me but I do need to save up more lol. I’m also from Canada and just turned 21. Anyways, which doctor did you end up choosing? If you chose Dr. Doan, could you please let me know everything you did like hiring a physical therapist or a caregiver and also your living condition in Vietnam? I’m thinking of getting this procedure next year but I’m not sure yet.

LeoGb · « **Reply #41 on:** October 23, 2021, 01:35:51 AM »

Quote from: talgal on October 22, 2021, 05:11:03 PM

Hi LeoGB, new here and just saw your posts about choosing between Dr. Buldu and Dr. Doan. I actually got the same reply from Dr. Doan’s team regarding the packages. I also messaged Dr. Buldu and got a reply from someone named Sedat on WhatsApp. Their prices sure seem good for a student like me but I do need to save up more lol. I’m also from Canada and just turned 21. Anyways, which doctor did you end up choosing? If you chose Dr. Doan, could you please let me know everything you did like hiring a physical therapist or a caregiver and also your living condition in Vietnam? I’m thinking of getting this procedure next year but I’m not sure yet.

Hi, I hope everything is going well for you. I haven't had surgery yet and I don't have an exact date to do so, but I have done my research and have ruled out Dr. Buldu. 1 reason, is the fact that as I have been reading and gathering information, I have realized that LON on femurs is complete torture, and there are usually many complications, a painful, slow recovery and also Dr. Buldu's team has had many complaints from some patients who went through there. 2 reason, he is a guy who usually operates only on femurs, he does not have much experience with tibias, so Dr Doan is a plus, because basically all his surgeries have been on tibias. 3 reason the cost, although the prices are quite competitive compared to doctors in the US and Europe, compared to Dr. Doan, it is a bit more expensive, the premium package with Buldu (which includes accommodation, care, and food) comes out to 22k EUROS (31k CAD) while Dr. Doan, has a package that includes everything, for 15k USD (18. 5k CAD) and also, as I go only for Tibias, Dr. Doan is the best in terms of price and experience. where are you from in Canada?, if you are from Quebec, and you speak French, we could talk by text message and I can share information with you, unfortunately my English is not very good, but still I try to make myself understood as best as possible.

dexter1930 · « **Reply #42 on:** October 27, 2021, 12:16:28 PM »

Quote from: LeoGb on July 17, 2021, 05:10:30 PM

Hi Dexter, I hope everything is going very well for you. Thanks for thinking like that, I think that maturity and responsibility is not something that has much to do with age, but rather with experiences, I come from a very hardworking and humble immigrant family, and we usually take care of money, because at some point we were not very well. Yes, really the only thing that keeps me away from doing the procedure is that detail of arriving with my mobility affected and people asking, maybe after I recover from the procedure I will tell my mother, she will take it badly for not having told her, but I know that if I tell her that I am going to Vietnam to break my legs, I doubt she can be calm and sleep at night knowing that her son is going through something like this hahaha. Man, I think very highly of Dr. Doan, I will continue to do more research on LON in TIBIAS. By the way Dexter, when are you going to post a diary?..I would really be the most interested in reading it. Thanks for being so vigilant man, hope your weekend is going great.

yoh dude just logged in to let you know that I have removed the frames off after 2 days ago, now I can truly start my consolidation phase. Good luck on your journey in the future. For me, I'm pretty much done with the LL forum, time to move on

Unknown · « **Reply #43 on:** October 27, 2021, 12:43:29 PM »

Good luck, hope the best for you. Could you update 6 months-1 year later?

hardcope · « **Reply #44 on:** October 27, 2021, 12:57:24 PM »

Quote from: AimHigh on July 21, 2021, 12:47:38 AM

Men remain fertile well into old age, A man who looks after himself is more attractive in his 30's and has, also he becomes more calm and a better father. In a Womans 30's she rapidly become less fertile, less attractive and is truly tired of the "bad boy" losers of her 20's.
Truth is Women want resources, and as a Man ages he gathers more resources and skills - Men age like fine wine, Women age like Milk.

stop coping, you re a loser that couldnt get laid in his 20s because he couldnt compete with other men for women.
no female wants an inexperienced virgin man at 30 lol

zaozari · « **Reply #45 on:** October 27, 2021, 08:44:29 PM »

Quote from: SirStretchAlot on July 01, 2021, 07:09:46 PM

There aren't many cases because complications rise after 5cm. Did you reach 6cm with weight-bearing nails? Because feeling like you can go 6+ with external fixiators is very different than going 6+ with weight bearing. You won't be able to walk. My internal femur nails can go 11cm+, but I'll only go 8-9cm because my walking is getting worse.

Hi, sorry if it's obvious but can you explain what you mean by "because feeling like you can go 6+ with external fixiators is very different than going 6+ with weight bearing. You won't be able to walk.".
You mean it's easier or harder going 6+ with externals, assuming pain was the same?

zaozari · « **Reply #46 on:** November 23, 2021, 12:34:08 PM »

Sorry but I got confused about one thing: does this doctor has Precise or not?
Thanks

ReadRothbard · « **Reply #47 on:** December 13, 2021, 10:53:00 PM »

Idk about 8 cm, but Sweden did 7 cm on his tibias and is now competing on a world stage as a martial artist.

KrP1 · « **Reply #48 on:** January 08, 2022, 02:39:40 PM »

Quote from: ReadRothbard on December 13, 2021, 10:53:00 PM

Idk about 8 cm, but Sweden did 7 cm on his tibias and is now competing on a world stage as a martial artist.

He can't even run as a normal person.

Medium Drink Of Water · « **Reply #49 on:** January 08, 2022, 08:10:58 PM »

Do we have Sweden running videos? I think I never saw those.

HateLAPELoveSTEM · « **Reply #50 on:** January 08, 2022, 08:13:32 PM »

Hell no! 8cm on tibias is equivalent to killing urself, not to mention extremely long period for recoveries, the potiential risks such as bone disalignments, Ballet Feet, and etc. will be more possible!

Medium Drink Of Water · « **Reply #51 on:** January 08, 2022, 10:11:02 PM »

Quote from: Liberation on January 08, 2022, 08:13:32 PM

Hell no! 8cm on tibias is equivalent to killing urself, not to mention extremely long period for recoveries, the potiential risks such as bone disalignments, Ballet Feet, and etc. will be more possible!

I did 7.5 cm and am nowhere near dead because of it.

KrP1 · « **Reply #52 on:** January 08, 2022, 10:15:57 PM »

Quote from: Medium Drink Of Water on January 08, 2022, 08:10:58 PM

Do we have Sweden running videos? I think I never saw those.

Yes , i saw them some years ago. Can't tell where them are now.

ReadRothbard · « **Reply #53 on:** January 08, 2022, 11:18:48 PM »

A study about ten years showed roughly 25% of people who lengthened 7 cm on the tibias had trouble pursuing vigorous sports. I don’t have the study on hand rn, though.

HateLAPELoveSTEM · « **Reply #54 on:** January 09, 2022, 12:26:41 AM »

Quote from: ReadRothbard on January 08, 2022, 11:18:48 PM

A study about ten years showed roughly 25% of people who lengthened 7 cm on the tibias had trouble pursuing vigorous sports. I don’t have the study on hand rn, though.

So 75% of people can rehab their athletic abilities very well? But srsly I really don't recommend lengthening that much on tibias like beyond 6cm cuz one of Dr.Paley's studies concluded that lengthening tibias beyond 5cm, the possibilities of risks will exponentially increase but that study was tailored to lengthening with external fixators, not internal nails. Maybe the table will be turned if lengthening with internal nails.

ReadRothbard · « **Reply #55 on:** January 09, 2022, 12:52:45 AM »

Quote from: Mulholland Dr on January 09, 2022, 12:26:41 AM

So 75% of people can rehab their athletic abilities very well? But srsly I really don't recommend lengthening that much on tibias like beyond 6cm cuz one of Dr.Paley's studies concluded that lengthening tibias beyond 5cm, the possibilities of risks will exponentially increase but that study was tailored to lengthening with external fixators, not internal nails. Maybe the table will be turned if lengthening with internal nails.

There was a more recent study in 2019 showing that people who tibial lengthened an average of 19.3% of their original limb length (6.3 cm in this case) had some trouble pursuing vigorous sports 2 years post-op (the examples they gave with tennis, soccer, and basketball). Another study in 2010 found that people who lengthen 4.4 cm on average showed no decrease in muscular size or strength 2 years post op. I'll link both studies below (they were both on cosmetic patients).

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00264-018-4159-5

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20298828/

My personal theory is that difficulty in hard sports recovery probably has to do with the change in biomechanics; the more you change your tibia-to-femur ratio, the harder it'll be and longer it'll take to fully recover, as your body has to learn how to accommodate the increase. The obvious solution, of course, would be to then lengthen the femurs accordingly in order to restore your pre-op biomechanics, but that's another story.

HateLAPELoveSTEM · « **Reply #56 on:** January 09, 2022, 01:01:47 AM »

Quote from: ReadRothbard on January 09, 2022, 12:52:45 AM

There was a more recent study in 2019 showing that people who tibial lengthened an average of 19.3% of their original limb length (6.3 cm in this case) had some trouble pursuing vigorous sports 2 years post-op (the examples they gave with tennis, soccer, and basketball). Another study in 2010 found that people who lengthen 4.4 cm on average showed no decrease in muscular size or strength 2 years post op. I'll link both studies below (they were both on cosmetic patients).

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00264-018-4159-5

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20298828/

My personal theory is that difficulty in hard sports recovery probably has to do with the change in biomechanics; the more you change your tibia-to-femur ratio, the harder it'll be and longer it'll take to fully recover, as your body has to learn how to accommodate the increase. The obvious solution, of course, would be to then lengthen the femurs accordingly in order to restore your pre-op biomechanics, but that's another story.

4.4cm? Let's say no.
I'd rather choose Parkinson' Syndrome and Leukemia than being short so it's not possible for me to be satisfied by lengthening under 16cm(I am fixating on Paley's Option 3:4+4+4+4) but the latest study you offered to me instead means that a minority of patients had troubles in pursuing vigorous sports 2 yrs post LL so the results were handsome and not devastating to my expectations for tibial lengthening. Tyvm!

ReadRothbard · « **Reply #57 on:** January 09, 2022, 01:55:30 AM »

Quote from: Mulholland Dr on January 09, 2022, 01:01:47 AM

4.4cm? Let's say no.
I'd rather choose Parkinson' Syndrome and Leukemia than being short so it's not possible for me to be satisfied by lengthening under 16cm(I am fixating on Paley's Option 3:4+4+4+4) but the latest study you offered to me instead means that a minority of patients had troubles in pursuing vigorous sports 2 yrs post LL so the results were handsome and not devastating to my expectations for tibial lengthening. Tyvm!

How tall are you?