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For those who want a summary of my left leg complication press this link

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=68198.msg205027#msg205027

That way you can skim through my diary and read only the beginning/walking updates/summary

Pray with you , hope you will recover soon. and will forget all these pain.

[Activatedxx]

Appreciate it

[Activatedxx]

https://imgur.com/a/JD91nbd

Here is the step I actually lost balance on^ found it in my photos
Never actually fell or anything. Just put my body weight on other leg

[Stretch]

Thank you for highlighting this.

Unfortunately it is not the first time I've heard of the shenanigans of this individual and group.

[Michael J. Assayag, MD]

caveat emptor…

i think this thread is super important as it highlights numerous problems that are easily avoidable

[Activatedxx]

Exactly, if you’re going to go overseas go with someone like parihar or giotikas etc
These doctors have proved themselves in numerous ways as putting patients first.
Buldu is a nice guy, but obviously he does not put the patient first if he is treating his practice like an assembly line.

[SirStretchAlot]

Another point is just do internals. The infection would likely never have happened.

And this is not neccessarily a Buldu problem. They have this exact same issue with hair transplants. Turkey in its entirety uses pressure sale tactics to get foreigners to pay more, be it travel or medical tourists. I've been there 3 times, and I hated it more each time.

I'd probably just stay away from developing countries all together. They always drop the ball when things go wrong, because they know you have less institutional protection. If this happened in Germany or US, they'll be sued to hell, no matter how many consents you signed.

[ilovescience]

Another point is just do internals. The infection would likely never have happened.

And this is not neccessarily a Buldu problem. They have this exact same issue with hair transplants. Turkey in its entirety uses pressure sale tactics to get foreigners to pay more, be it travel or medical tourists. I've been there 3 times, and I hated it more each time.

I'd probably just stay away from developing countries all together. They always drop the ball when things go wrong, because they know you have less institutional protection. If this happened in Germany or US, they'll be sued to hell, no matter how many consents you signed.

Limb lenghening has been considered a popular cosmetic surgery in Turkey has it? I saw lots of foreigners head there for LL.

[Activatedxx]

Another point is just do internals. The infection would likely never have happened.

And this is not neccessarily a Buldu problem. They have this exact same issue with hair transplants. Turkey in its entirety uses pressure sale tactics to get foreigners to pay more, be it travel or medical tourists. I've been there 3 times, and I hated it more each time.

I'd probably just stay away from developing countries all together. They always drop the ball when things go wrong, because they know you have less institutional protection. If this happened in Germany or US, they'll be sued to hell, no matter how many consents you signed.

You completely missed the point. The infection has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Pinsite infection will happen to anyone anywhere doing externals, but if you look at the post I screenshotted (2cnd photo first, then read 1st) you’ll see I was ignored. They read my message, didn’t reply. I texted 6 hours later again, same thing read and no reply
If you look at the photo you will see my right leg was so inflamed/swollen it was touching the fixator

[SirStretchAlot]

You completely missed the point. The infection has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Pinsite infection will happen to anyone anywhere doing externals, but if you look at the post I screenshotted (2cnd photo first, then read 1st) you’ll see I was ignored. They read my message, didn’t reply. I texted 6 hours later again, same thing read and no reply
If you look at the photo you will see my right leg was so inflamed/swollen it was touching the fixator

I'm sorry for being such a dik but doing externals in a developing country was the main issue here. Buldu's agency was obviously unscrupulous, but you were partially responsible for all this misery because you wanted to save money. I just didn't feel any sense of self-responsibility in your writing, just that Buldu's agents were evil, and they are. However, your choices ultimately decide what happens to your body.

I had a loose screw with Betz after the initial surgery. The moment he saw it on the Xray, I was sent in the surgery room to fix it next morning. This probably had something to do with me having paid triple for internals in Germany compared to externals in Turkey.

Paley with externals only had 2% higher infection rate than he did with internals. They disinfect the wound much more frequently and professionally.

I really feel sorry for all of your misgivings, but this is just another reminder for everyone not to trust doctors with agents in developing countries. You probably would've saved 50% if everything went right. But if something went wrong, those savings will be last things you'll regret.

[RolexDream]

I think LLT's biggest issue is the consistent lying, at a point where they tell more lies than truths
Regardless of how unethical it becomes, the team will lie, cheat, scream at patients to make the things exactly how they want it

Additionally, LLT don't really care about the patients, nor do they do much to support the patients
99% of the time spent with patients is to film instagram stories

[Activatedxx]

I'm sorry for being such a dik but doing externals in a developing country was the main issue here. Buldu's agency was obviously unscrupulous, but you were partially responsible for all this misery because you wanted to save money. I just didn't feel any sense of self-responsibility in your writing, just that Buldu's agents were evil, and they are. However, your choices ultimately decide what happens to your body.

I had a loose screw with Betz after the initial surgery. The moment he saw it on the Xray, I was sent in the surgery room to fix it next morning. This probably had something to do with me having paid triple for internals in Germany compared to externals in Turkey.

Paley with externals only had 2% higher infection rate than he did with internals. They disinfect the wound much more frequently and professionally.

I really feel sorry for all of your misgivings, but this is just another reminder for everyone not to trust doctors with agents in developing countries. You probably would've saved 50% if everything went right. But if something went wrong, those savings will be last things you'll regret.

Lol I didn’t take offense to anything you said, even paley wrote me in an email “you get what you pay for” you guys are completely right
Buldu did fix the complication for free. I could have afforded to do it in the USA but it would have been a huge chunk of my savings. Being 23 and working so hard to save that first 100k it’s not something you want to let go of just to have a surgery that will make you 3 inches taller. That was my attitude at that time, now I feel like I should’ve just went and did precice with giotikas or parihar for 45k-50k total.

Also this post wasn’t to really complain, it was more supposed to be an eye opener. LLT makes everything look nice and dandy, they try to seduce you. Like the photo of the patient with the bent pins, his before and after photo shows him starting at 5’8 next to sedat and he is 181cm in the after photo towering after him. Anyone looking at it is probably like “wow that’s great” but they don’t know what I know, that patient is one of my friends I made over there and he had 2 extra surgeries for complications ( bent pins and failing nail) and had the fixators on for 4 months. He went through hell. No one knows what it’s like to have femur fixators on, each day feels like forever. You start to lose your sanity due to all the discomfort. He just started walking unassisted slightly at the 6 month mark and has a long way to go to walk normal.
I made this post so people see the reality of what happens there and what’s behind their post. They post stuff that makes everything look like flowers and butterflies in reality it’s bullcrap

[Want-3-inches]

Thanks for this post.

I think we should be vary of any place which markets this procedure excessively. Someone had a broken femur after nail removal in the US and I bet that doctor will not post anything about that in their marketing. They will just put before and after pics lol.

[SirStretchAlot]

Lol I didn’t take offense to anything you said, even paley wrote me in an email “you get what you pay for” you guys are completely right
Buldu did fix the complication for free. I could have afforded to do it in the USA but it would have been a huge chunk of my savings. Being 23 and working so hard to save that first 100k it’s not something you want to let go of just to have a surgery that will make you 3 inches taller. That was my attitude at that time, now I feel like I should’ve just went and did precice with giotikas or parihar for 45k-50k total.

Also this post wasn’t to really complain, it was more supposed to be an eye opener. LLT makes everything look nice and dandy, they try to seduce you. Like the photo of the patient with the bent pins, his before and after photo shows him starting at 5’8 next to sedat and he is 181cm in the after photo towering after him. Anyone looking at it is probably like “wow that’s great” but they don’t know what I know, that patient is one of my friends I made over there and he had 2 extra surgeries for complications ( bent pins and failing nail) and had the fixators on for 4 months. He went through hell. No one knows what it’s like to have femur fixators on, each day feels like forever. You start to lose your sanity due to all the discomfort. He just started walking unassisted slightly at the 6 month mark and has a long way to go to walk normal.
I made this post so people see the reality of what happens there and what’s behind their post. They post stuff that makes everything look like flowers and butterflies in reality it’s bullcrap

Totally feel you bro. Sorry for being such a dck. Your misfortune are for all of us to learn from. You did everyone in the LL world a huge favour by posting the truth behind Livelifetaller.

[Growing]

Lol I didn’t take offense to anything you said, even paley wrote me in an email “you get what you pay for” you guys are completely right
Buldu did fix the complication for free. I could have afforded to do it in the USA but it would have been a huge chunk of my savings. Being 23 and working so hard to save that first 100k it’s not something you want to let go of just to have a surgery that will make you 3 inches taller. That was my attitude at that time, now I feel like I should’ve just went and did precice with giotikas or parihar for 45k-50k total.

Also this post wasn’t to really complain, it was more supposed to be an eye opener. LLT makes everything look nice and dandy, they try to seduce you. Like the photo of the patient with the bent pins, his before and after photo shows him starting at 5’8 next to sedat and he is 181cm in the after photo towering after him. Anyone looking at it is probably like “wow that’s great” but they don’t know what I know, that patient is one of my friends I made over there and he had 2 extra surgeries for complications ( bent pins and failing nail) and had the fixators on for 4 months. He went through hell. No one knows what it’s like to have femur fixators on, each day feels like forever. You start to lose your sanity due to all the discomfort. He just started walking unassisted slightly at the 6 month mark and has a long way to go to walk normal.
I made this post so people see the reality of what happens there and what’s behind their post. They post stuff that makes everything look like flowers and butterflies in reality it’s bullcrap

I know exactly who you're talking about. Even when I saw that photo My first thought was "man he's been there for a long time". Aldo if you look closer he's being held up and not standing on his own 100%

[Activatedxx]

Totally feel you bro. Sorry for being such a dck. Your misfortune are for all of us to learn from. You did everyone in the LL world a huge favour by posting the truth behind Livelifetaller.

You didn’t say anything offensive, and even if I can help one person with this post that’s enough for me

[Activatedxx]

I know exactly who you're talking about. Even when I saw that photo My first thought was "man he's been there for a long time". Aldo if you look closer he's being held up and not standing on his own 100%

Yes sadly his muscles atrophied to a really high degree and the trauma from 4 surgeries slowed his recovery even more. He’s a great guy and his story behind why he got LL made me kinda sad for him. I wish him the best and pray for him

[Growing]

Yes sadly his muscles atrophied to a really high degree and the trauma from 4 surgeries slowed his recovery even more. He’s a great guy and his story behind why he got LL made me kinda sad for him. I wish him the best and pray for him

damn.. Crazy part is he wasn't really actually short. 5'8 isn't bad.. But I definitely understand being slightly under 5'9 with no shoes.

[tripleogkush]

good post. it was clear to me though. its always fake when its all perfect.

[Activatedxx]

good post. it was clear to me though. its always fake when its all perfect.

Yeah I didn’t expect it to be perfect. At the time I was looking for a well rounded experienced doctor. I didn’t realize experience doesnt translate to success. An experienced doctor that treats something like an assembly line is going to have way more issues than someone less experienced or like parihar who only takes a small amount per year and pays more attention to details

[SpeedDialer]

Oh wait Parihar/Giotikas are still 50k USD total for internal?

G nail alone is over 50k USD right?

But I know Parihar is less

Anyone know if Parihar in total is less than 50k$ in practice when factoring in all costs?

[tripleogkush]

i wouldnt trust an indian doctor. and yea he is cheaper but i think he only does ilizarov.
dont cheap out on this. rather safe some more money and have it done properly

[Activatedxx]

i wouldnt trust an indian doctor. and yea he is cheaper but i think he only does ilizarov.
dont cheap out on this. rather safe some more money and have it done properly

I would trust parihar, he does external and precice but he is experienced, isn’t concerned about money, trained with paley etc

For saving money I think giotikas is probably best choice

[SirStretchAlot]

Parihar is cheap and India-based. He only does externals which is a problem in itself.

Giotikas does both externals and internals. I personally would never cheap out for externals because of the permanent scars and high infection rates.

[yash]

Parihar is cheap and India-based. He only does externals which is a problem in itself.

Giotikas does both externals and internals. I personally would never cheap out for externals because of the permanent scars and high infection rates.

its not true that externals have high infection rates, when proper care is taken they are pretty much rare and even if they do occur, a simple antibiotic course is enough to resolve the issue... also the scars can easily be removed by a simple outpatient plastic surgery .. no question that internals are the best, but when you can't afford them, externals are not really bad either

[KiloKAHN]

Parihar is cheap and India-based. He only does externals which is a problem in itself.

Giotikas does both externals and internals. I personally would never cheap out for externals because of the permanent scars and high infection rates.

Dr Parihar does conventional externals, hexapod externals using six-axis correction like the Taylor Spatial Frame, LON, and Precice internals (when the recall isn't in effect).

Internals are overkill for tibias if you're a guy. Plus you're subjecting yourself to more injury than externals whrn you've got a nail getting shoved into your kneecaps.

[SpeedDialer]

"Precice internals (when the recall isn't in effect)."

Precise 2 not available now with Parihar?

[KiloKAHN]

"Precice internals (when the recall isn't in effect)."

Precise 2 not available now with Parihar?

Probably is, I haven't checked. I was including Styrde in that. If the last generation is still available elsewhere then Dr P is still offering them.

[SirStretchAlot]

its not true that externals have high infection rates, when proper care is taken they are pretty much rare and even if they do occur, a simple antibiotic course is enough to resolve the issue... also the scars can easily be removed by a simple outpatient plastic surgery .. no question that internals are the best, but when you can't afford them, externals are not really bad either

"High" is always a relative term. Externals have double the infection rate of internals. In India, where you guys love to do your LONs and LATNs, the external infections rates are 10%, unacceptable for any cosmetic surgery.
https://applications.emro.who.int/imemrf/Ann_Punjab%20Med_Coll/Ann_Punjab%20Med_Coll_2018_12_1_80_82.pdf

Your use of the word "remove" illustrates your lack of basic understanding around plastic surgery. Scars cannot be removed, they can only be lessened. Just like burns, your skin recovers better when it is exposed to heat for a lesser amount of time. Deep penetrative injuries over months leads to permanent deep-tissue scars. I have actually consulted a plastic surgeon, and he said while the screw insertion points can be near-invisible, the nail insertion hole near my hip would still be visible, even with skin graft. For externals, every pin hole scar is deeper than my nail incision. It is a fantasy to think plastic surgeons can work magic.

Plus, the cost of removing 10+ scars on both legs is easily more expensive than doing internals in the first place. The damage you do to yourself by choosing cheaper externals is irreversible.

[Stretch]

"High" is always a relative term. Externals have double the infection rate of internals. In India, where you guys love to do your LONs and LATNs, the external infections rates are 10%, unacceptable for any cosmetic surgery.
https://applications.emro.who.int/imemrf/Ann_Punjab%20Med_Coll/Ann_Punjab%20Med_Coll_2018_12_1_80_82.pdf

Your use of the word "remove" illustrates your lack of basic understanding around plastic surgery. Scars cannot be removed, they can only be lessened. Just like burns, your skin recovers better when it is exposed to heat for a lesser amount of time. Deep penetrative injuries over months leads to permanent deep-tissue scars. I have actually consulted a plastic surgeon, and he said while the screw insertion points can be near-invisible, the nail insertion hole near my hip would still be visible, even with skin graft. For externals, every pin hole scar is deeper than my nail incision. It is a fantasy to think plastic surgeons can work magic.

Plus, the cost of removing 10+ scars on both legs is easily more expensive than doing internals in the first place. The damage you do to yourself by choosing cheaper externals is irreversible.

Woah! I was not aware of this fully, so unfortunate.

[yash]

"High" is always a relative term. Externals have double the infection rate of internals. In India, where you guys love to do your LONs and LATNs, the external infections rates are 10%, unacceptable for any cosmetic surgery.
https://applications.emro.who.int/imemrf/Ann_Punjab%20Med_Coll/Ann_Punjab%20Med_Coll_2018_12_1_80_82.pdf

Your use of the word "remove" illustrates your lack of basic understanding around plastic surgery. Scars cannot be removed, they can only be lessened. Just like burns, your skin recovers better when it is exposed to heat for a lesser amount of time. Deep penetrative injuries over months leads to permanent deep-tissue scars. I have actually consulted a plastic surgeon, and he said while the screw insertion points can be near-invisible, the nail insertion hole near my hip would still be visible, even with skin graft. For externals, every pin hole scar is deeper than my nail incision. It is a fantasy to think plastic surgeons can work magic.

Plus, the cost of removing 10+ scars on both legs is easily more expensive than doing internals in the first place. The damage you do to yourself by choosing cheaper externals is irreversible.

hey sirstretchalot,
comparing a research paper done on trauma cases with an open fracture to cosmetically done cases under sterile environment is not a fair thing to do..
open fractures mean they have skin wounds, most of which would be larger and almost always are the source of infection,.
in cosmetic cases we dont have such unsterile wounds, and hence your comparison is not valid.
ok i might have made a mistake in calling it scar removal, but a scar revision surgery would make the scar almost invisible. i am a recently graduated doctor myself and have seen so many of those procedures being done, during my dermatology and surgery rotations..
also the cost as you  say is not even close to the cost of externals. the cost in india, would not exceed 50000 inr(i have this confirmed from seniors who have finished their residency in dermatology) per segment. so even 4 segments would mean no more than 3000-4000 usd. which as you can see in no way is more.