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[BelowTheMean]

Randomly found an interesting study the other day and thought I'd share it on here.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31859-6/fulltext

You guys are always talking about how younger guys are taller than the adult average and I found some relevant tidbits in here.

-Average height of 19-year old men in the Netherlands in 1985: 180.6cm
-Average height of 19-year old men in the Netherlands in 2019: 183.8cm (rank 1)

-Average height of 19-year old men in the US in 1985: 175.8 cm
-Average height of 19-year old men in the US in 2019: 176.9 cm (rank 48)
My thought on this one is that it's due to demographic change. The average height of white guys in the US is probably around 178-180cm.

-Average height of 19-year old men in China in 1985: 167.6cm
-Average height of 19-year old men in China in 2019: 175.7cm (rank 65)
The change over the last 35 years here is pretty crazy (more than a full femur CLL.) I can definitely see why this forum has so many Chinese visitors.

-Average height of 19-year old men in Japan in 1985: 170.4cm
-Average height of 19-year old men in Japan in 2019: 172.1cm (rank 115)
Japan was already rich by 1985 so it looks like they're limited by genetics.

Global height ranking for UK has worsened over past 35 years, with 19-year-old boys falling from 28th tallest in 1985 (176.3 cm) to 39th in 2019 (178.2 cm).

It looks like average heights in the whole world are growing still.

[10cmOnTibiaOrGTFO]

as access to food improves people's bodies have more energy available so they grow. 
there are genetic limits though. at some point height becomes unhealthy. i think 6ft will be the new
standard in a couple centuries for developed countries. they need to improve LL though. it sucks so much now.
way too time consuming and painful.

[Astronomy]

But most of Chinese regions' average heights aren't that tall since it's given that Chinese average height is 175cm by 2019(I'm a Chinese).It's not related to growing average height that there is an increasing rate of growth of Chinese visitors.Just cuz in China there are more and more people screaming for growing taller.

[tallmen]

Randomly found an interesting study the other day and thought I'd share it on here.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31859-6/fulltext

You guys are always talking about how younger guys are taller than the adult average and I found some relevant tidbits in here.

-Average height of 19-year old men in the Netherlands in 1985: 180.6cm
-Average height of 19-year old men in the Netherlands in 2019: 183.8cm (rank 1)

-Average height of 19-year old men in the US in 1985: 175.8 cm
-Average height of 19-year old men in the US in 2019: 176.9 cm (rank 48)
My thought on this one is that it's due to demographic change. The average height of white guys in the US is probably around 178-180cm.

-Average height of 19-year old men in China in 1985: 167.6cm
-Average height of 19-year old men in China in 2019: 175.7cm (rank 65)
The change over the last 35 years here is pretty crazy (more than a full femur CLL.) I can definitely see why this forum has so many Chinese visitors.

-Average height of 19-year old men in Japan in 1985: 170.4cm
-Average height of 19-year old men in Japan in 2019: 172.1cm (rank 115)
Japan was already rich by 1985 so it looks like they're limited by genetics.

Global height ranking for UK has worsened over past 35 years, with 19-year-old boys falling from 28th tallest in 1985 (176.3 cm) to 39th in 2019 (178.2 cm).

It looks like average heights in the whole world are growing still.

Uk and US are the same. Genes wise also you guys are the same. Been to both countries and I didn't see any difference in avg height for white folks.

[tallmen]

as access to food improves people's bodies have more energy available so they grow. 
there are genetic limits though. at some point height becomes unhealthy. i think 6ft will be the new
standard in a couple centuries for developed countries. they need to improve LL though. it sucks so much now.
way too time consuming and painful.

With proper nutrition, all countries will eventually catch up and height can not keep growing there must be a limit. I don't believe humans will be 7ft or 8ft on average in 10000 years.

[HeightGain]

There is enormous variation within countries. The rich areas of Western Europe and US, 183cm at 19 years old would be considered average, 178cm short.

[BelowTheMean]

There is enormous variation within countries. The rich areas of Western Europe and US, 183cm at 19 years old would be considered average, 178cm short.

Maybe in Europe, but Idk about the US. Even in the Midwest where there’s a ton of tall white guys there are plenty of short white guys too. I highly doubt the average is over 6ft in any part of the US.

[HeightGain]

It depends what groups you are part of. Young, wealthy white men and women that go to the top universities are a lot taller than those averages. That is to be expected as height is correlated with earnings and wealth which means better schools and better grades and the best universities

[BelowTheMean]

It depends what groups you are part of. Young, wealthy white men and women that go to the top universities are a lot taller than those averages. That is to be expected as height is correlated with earnings and wealth which means better schools and better grades and the best universities

You could probably say that the elite university students from any country are taller than the average person in that country. But the percentage is so small that it doesn't affect the national average at all. I don't see your point. The topic is national averages and the US is not very tall because it is very diverse. I'm sure you can find the national average height for white men only but I would be very surprised if it was higher than 178-180cm.

Besides, if you attend a big public school in the US with 40000+ students the height distribution is not going to be that different from the national height distribution. Plenty of engineering departments at these schools (Michigan, Illinois, Berkeley) feed into the Bay Area with some of the highest earning recent college grads coming out of school.

The correlation with height and income is pretty weak ($600-$800/year/inch.) This is definitely not worth getting LL for. I don't know if there's a correlation between height and wealth. If there is, I haven't seen it before, but I would be interested if you can find a study. The much bigger issue regarding height and money is how much money you need to compensate for being a short guy in dating.

[Body Builder]

It is a joke that China has an 1,75 average and japan 1.72. Even 1,70 is much for China but 1,75 is really a joke.

[BelowTheMean]

It is a joke that China has an 1,75 average and japan 1.72. Even 1,70 is much for China but 1,75 is really a joke.

I find it suspect as well, but they are taking the source material from 42 different studies in China, and some of them are measured and not self-reported heights. The 2019 height is about the same as Korea, which seems somewhat reasonable? (Though I've never been there so I can't confirm.) I believe the height for Japan though, they are not very tall.

Then again, I was in Amsterdam last year (pre-surgery) and it didn't feel to me like the average person was much taller than the average American, so I guess sample size and bias matters a lot.

[Serilium]

South China is very short, like 169-170 cm average for youth. North China is like 173-174. Higher you go the taller. These reports are likely sample bias towards northern area- if you did the actual average of ALL of China it definitely wouldn't be 175cm. But there are North China places where 174cm average is legit, not many though- minority.

Additionally China is the most heightist country in the world. Short people get treated like disabled people. It is disgusting and I completely empathize with anyone who is short in China. You essentially have to be very rich or have a green card to the USA to get married as a short man in China. I am the product of a marry-for-immigration parents of China. There are entire rural villages with unmarried men- somewhat due to the excess of men but undoubtedly also due to heightism- when women can choose such as with the one child policy causing millions more men than women- women will not choose a short guy.

[Body Builder]

South China is very short, like 169-170 cm average for youth. North China is like 173-174. Higher you go the taller. These reports are likely sample bias towards northern area- if you did the actual average of ALL of China it definitely wouldn't be 175cm. But there are North China places where 174cm average is legit, not many though- minority.

Additionally China is the most heightist country in the world. Short people get treated like disabled people. It is disgusting and I completely empathize with anyone who is short in China. You essentially have to be very rich or have a green card to the USA to get married as a short man in China. I am the product of a marry-for-immigration parents of China. There are entire rural villages with unmarried men- somewhat due to the excess of men but undoubtedly also due to heightism- when women can choose such as with the one child policy causing millions more men than women- women will not choose a short guy.

Well said. In China, height is almost everything. A comoletely stupid prejudice and anyone can understand how low is the mental level of people who think like that.

However, that means that many exaggerate a lot about their heights.
Chinese can no way be taller as an average than Japanese or the same as Koreans.
The first have way worse living standards and way more poverty than Japan and South Korea, two of the most advanced and rich countries in the world.
The average of Chinese people can't be much more than North Korea and Vietnam where it is 1.65-6 so the maximum for young Chinese men is 1.70.

Anyway, personally I don't care about averqge heights and all these bs. I believe that above 1.75 it is a truly respectable height and above 1.70 you are not considered short, even if the average Dutch is 1.90 or whatever.
What matters is how a man's body looks aesthetic and above 1.75 (maybe even 1.70) anyone can look good with a fit body, no matter what country you are in.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

China is two countries: a billion peasants and 300 million people who live at about the level of second-tier European countries like Portugal or Greece.

An average doesn't mean much there.

[Bantem]

-Average height of 19-year old men in the US in 1985: 175.8 cm
-Average height of 19-year old men in the US in 2019: 176.9 cm (rank 48)
My thought on this one is that it's due to demographic change. The average height of white guys in the US is probably around 178-180cm.

I don't think your theory is correct. I have read before that immigrants after 2 generations are usually in the same height range as the people who's families have been living there for a while. If you compare African-Americans to White Americans, you will see that they have a similar average height. In the study you linked one of the sources was this "Child height and intergenerational transmission of health: Evidence from ethnic Indians in England" In this study it mentioned that Ethnic Indians (Not sure what an Ethnic Indian is, since Indian is a nationality) were still shorter than Whites, but a lot taller than Indians living in India the difference being around 6-7cm. So in another generation this difference could be even bigger and the gap between the Whites would also close. Helping to backup the previous study I had read.

[tallmen]

China is two countries: a billion peasants and 300 million people who live at about the level of second-tier European countries like Portugal or Greece.

An average doesn't mean much there.

It's the same in India. Except for maybe more peasants.

[HeightGain]

The height of subsets of populations is relevant because whatever your age or occupation you typically interact with subsets of the population.

If you are part of the wealthy, highly educated, subset that is what is relevant to you. I don't care what height people are in China because I have little interaction with people that live in China.

You might not like it and might not believe it if you don't study or work in these environments but 178cm is short.

[tallmen]

The height of subsets of populations is relevant because whatever your age or occupation you typically interact with subsets of the population.

If you are part of the wealthy, highly educated, subset that is what is relevant to you. I don't care what height people are in China because I have little interaction with people that live in China.

You might not like it and might not believe it if you don't study or work in these environments but 178cm is short.

It's not depressingly short you can wear 2' lifts and get 6". If you'll say 178 cm is short then what will you say for someone who is 152 cm.

[Astronomy]

It's not depressingly short you can wear 2' lifts and get 6". If you'll say 178 cm is short then what will you say for someone who is 152 cm.

Average heights of environments can crucially differ from each other.Once I heard one man who is 180cmish said he was considered as a monster travelling in Guangxi Province.

[Astronomy]

China is two countries: a billion peasants and 300 million people who live at about the level of second-tier European countries like Portugal or Greece.

An average doesn't mean much there.

Lancet just did some counting jobs but not measuring jobs.Once they counted North Korea female average heights as 169cm.So I think Lancet used correct calculation methods but they themselves referred from false data by accident.Actually this result is considered suspectful even in China(You can see some netizens who is strict with height are arguing on this result although the others accept it cuz millenials are of course taller than Chineses in 80's).I think Lancet referred from those data biased towards the North China(Although many North regions's average heights can't reach that number).

[Astronomy]

Well said. In China, height is almost everything. A comoletely stupid prejudice and anyone can understand how low is the mental level of people who think like that.

However, that means that many exaggerate a lot about their heights.
Chinese can no way be taller as an average than Japanese or the same as Koreans.
The first have way worse living standards and way more poverty than Japan and South Korea, two of the most advanced and rich countries in the world.
The average of Chinese people can't be much more than North Korea and Vietnam where it is 1.65-6 so the maximum for young Chinese men is 1.70.

Anyway, personally I don't care about averqge heights and all these bs. I believe that above 1.75 it is a truly respectable height and above 1.70 you are not considered short, even if the average Dutch is 1.90 or whatever.
What matters is how a man's body looks aesthetic and above 1.75 (maybe even 1.70) anyone can look good with a fit body, no matter what country you are in.

It's time tik tok was banned .Not only is tik tok exaggerating the importance of height but also Chinese average height(For millions of times I've seen some users said 185cm was very short in their habitats...).In 80's,as long as you're a rich man over 150cm,marriage is not a dream.But nowadays even though you're Jack Ma under 165cm,perhaps it's easy to get far away from teenage and college lovers and can't get married along life).

[tallmen]

It's time tik tok was banned .Not only is tik tok exaggerating the importance of height but also Chinese average height(For millions of times I've seen some users said 185cm was very short in their habitats...).In 80's,as long as you're a rich man over 150cm,marriage is not a dream.But nowadays even though you're Jack Ma under 165cm,perhaps it's easy to get far away from teenage and college lovers and can't get married along life).

You can never get tall enough but I think 5'9 and above people can live a happy life and be in good mental health in most countries. (Asia, US, UK, Canada etc.)

[Serilium]

TikTok/Douyin has created a generation of body dysphoria, lookism, heightism, for everyone ages 0-25 that validates you if you're in the top 1% of looks and puts you down if you're in the lower 99%. It is no good for society and is absolutely cancerous.

This 1/99 already happened forever in society before TikTok. Now it is on absolute steroids with TikTok/YouTube/Movies/TV, with TikTok impacting kids the most now.

There is hundreds of thousands of Chinese TikTok videos mocking short guys. Imagine I mocked someone for a genetically inherited terminal illness, something out of their control, that'll be too far right? But surely height is okay to play games with.

And with FaceTune and leg extender apps everything is being more fake and setting up a young generation to absolutely go crazy with valuing looks and unrealistic beauty standards, as if it wasn't important enough before. With these fake apps, it's like we're living in a facade, everyone is faking it and reality doesn't even matter anymore.

If "perfect" girls/boys still need to get plastic surgery and edit their photos with FaceTune, can you even imagine how the bottom 50% feel? Let alone the lower 5%. TikTok is cancėr.

Not to mention it has ruined everyone's attention span.

[tallmen]

TikTok/Douyin has created a generation of body dysphoria, lookism, heightism, for everyone ages 0-25 that validates you if you're in the top 1% of looks and puts you down if you're in the lower 99%. It is no good for society and is absolutely cancerous.


There is hundreds of thousands of Chinese TikTok videos mocking short guys. Imagine I mocked someone for a genetically inherited terminal illness, something out of their control, that'll be too far right? But surely height is okay to play games with.

And with FaceTune and leg extender apps everything is being more fake and setting up a young generation to absolutely go crazy with valuing looks and unrealistic beauty standards, as if it wasn't important enough before. With these fake apps, it's like we're living in a facade, everyone is faking it and reality doesn't even matter anymore.

If "perfect" girls/boys still need to get plastic surgery and edit their photos with FaceTune, can you even imagine how the bottom 50% feel? Let alone the lower 5%. TikTok is cancėr.

Not to mention it has ruined everyone's attention span.

They mock disabled people too. They are the scum of the planet. You shouldn't give a crap about them.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Yeah we did a group trip to a karaoke place in Beijing and one of the staff openly mocked us for being crippled.

[F_99]

Even when it comes to the young, wealthy white men subgroup in the US, 178cm is not short.

[BelowTheMean]

Even when it comes to the young, wealthy white men subgroup in the US, 178cm is not short.

Exactly, 178cm is not tall but it's not short either. I went to a top boarding school in the US for high school (an Ivy League feeder) and sure, more than a few of my classmates turned out to be 6'2" or taller after college, but there were plenty of short ones too. I guess if you exclude the men of Jewish ancestry (which there are a ton of in the elite education circle) then maybe the average for white guys could be 180. I still don't think it's anywhere near 6' because there are so many 5'7" to 5'10" white guys.

Maybe the average would approach 6' if you only count midwestern guys with Germanic or Scandinavian ancestry, but that's so specific that it's meaningless. Plus you won't find it on the east or west coasts.

[HeightGain]

It is not pleasent for people on here to hear it because even after surgery they will be below average in certain subsets. Other posters have talked about it on here before about 178cm being considered short. Wealthy and white in the top academic institutions and employers, 178 is short.

You yourself have said that the average height is at least 178/9 where you live.

I have studied in multiple top places in Europe and my experience has been the same in each place.

[BelowTheMean]

It's time tik tok was banned .Not only is tik tok exaggerating the importance of height but also Chinese average height(For millions of times I've seen some users said 185cm was very short in their habitats...).In 80's,as long as you're a rich man over 150cm,marriage is not a dream.But nowadays even though you're Jack Ma under 165cm,perhaps it's easy to get far away from teenage and college lovers and can't get married along life).

TikTok/Douyin has created a generation of body dysphoria, lookism, heightism, for everyone ages 0-25 that validates you if you're in the top 1% of looks and puts you down if you're in the lower 99%. It is no good for society and is absolutely cancerous.

This 1/99 already happened forever in society before TikTok. Now it is on absolute steroids with TikTok/YouTube/Movies/TV, with TikTok impacting kids the most now.

There is hundreds of thousands of Chinese TikTok videos mocking short guys. Imagine I mocked someone for a genetically inherited terminal illness, something out of their control, that'll be too far right? But surely height is okay to play games with.

And with FaceTune and leg extender apps everything is being more fake and setting up a young generation to absolutely go crazy with valuing looks and unrealistic beauty standards, as if it wasn't important enough before. With these fake apps, it's like we're living in a facade, everyone is faking it and reality doesn't even matter anymore.

If "perfect" girls/boys still need to get plastic surgery and edit their photos with FaceTune, can you even imagine how the bottom 50% feel? Let alone the lower 5%. TikTok is cancėr.

Not to mention it has ruined everyone's attention span.

Yeah, social media is cancer and I'm especially glad I'm not part of the TikTok generation. 10 years ago, girls in their early 20s expected guys to be popular on Facebook. Nowadays the early 20s cohort expects guys to have a lot of Instagram followers. If I wait any longer to settle down I'm going to have to start a TikTok

In all seriousness though, one big advantage of dating as a guy in your 30s is that girls in their early 20s are more willing to accept that you don't use social media. You'll have to play a more mature role and have your sh*t together financially but that beats trying to become popular on social media imo.

[Jamesy998]

There are still so so many women out there who could care less about social media. The tiktok generation is just a cringe phase which we also went through, do you guys really not remember Bebo and MySpace haha, those were the days. I am only 22 but I still remember. Those tiktok users will also mature away from that once they mature a bit.

No need for a girlfriend for the time being. I have my LL done so now I can finally focus on my career.

[BelowTheMean]

It is not pleasent for people on here to hear it because even after surgery they will be below average in certain subsets. Other posters have talked about it on here before about 178cm being considered short. Wealthy and white in the top academic institutions and employers, 178 is short.

You yourself have said that the average height is at least 178/9 where you live.

I have studied in multiple top places in Europe and my experience has been the same in each place.

I'm not sure if you are referring to me or someone else. I don't remember specifying the average height around where I live on this forum. I personally don't mind being technically below average height after surgery. I'm not going to change my username or lengthen my tibias. I already did all I'm willing to do to grow in height and I believe the surgery will serve its intended purpose for me once I recover.

However, with that said you keep bucketing the US with Europe but the US is shorter than most of Western and Northern Europe. There is no way that rich white men have an average height of 183cm in the top academic institutions in the US unless you exclude men of Jewish ancestry. Maybe it's different in Europe, but Jewish people are a huge demographic in US Ivy League schools and statistically significant in this case.

I have anecdotes like you do too:

• One time when I was hanging out in Budapest my friends and I randomly ran into an Ivy League frat on a barcrawl and we ended up joining them for the night ('Mericans f*k yeah.) There were about 15 guys and while two of the guys were over 6'3", five of them were 5'6"-5'9", the rest were 5'10"-6', so I don't think the average was anywhere near 183cm. In fact, I'm pretty sure the average local guy was actually taller than most guys in the group.
• One time I was clubbing in the Wan Chai district of Hong Kong and my friends and I ran into a group of British college kids. I will say that every single one of them was over 6' tall and they actually mocked us for being American (jerks!) I would certainly believe if you said rich college kids in the UK are 183cm on average based on that experience, though I've been to London a few times and I don't think the average person there is all that tall.
• I know several South African Americans of British and Dutch descent and none of them are over 6' tall.

Based on my personal experience, I feel like Americans just aren't as tall as Europeans, and I really can't picture the average height of rich white guys from elite US schools being 183cm on average, and it's not due to lack of exposure.