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[Body Builder]

You are joking right?.
I am 5'7 and 150 was my prime. I was full of muscles doing deadlifts of 140kg.
When I am boxing and doing lots of cardio I am more in my range which is 140-145.
Over 150 is actually obeses and outside ranges.
Maybe I am getting the conversions wrong but 150 is 68kg, which is ideal weight. 70kg is very muscular. Anything over that people were either fat or very muscular.

I was almost 1.69 and 75kg before LL with more than 40cm arms and about 14% bodyfat.
Now I am about 1.76 with 92kg and about 17% bodyfat and 47cm arms.
Of course I am not very fit right now but before LL I was.
So the majority of men are not under 68kg even if they are 1.65. And they are not fat, they are normal.
Being skinny as a man is maybe even worse than being short.

ITT: Short ectomorphs and short endomorphs arguing about what a "normal" weight is.

I was always a mesomorph. Only ectomorphs can be so skinny (less than 68kg).
Maybe you are one, I don't know.

Does anyone have tips for using a walker during Precise 2 lengthening? I worry that I will accidentally break the nails.

Yes. The best you can do is stop using a walker till 2 months after consolidation phase.
Otherwise you risk nailbreaking-bending and no tip will chanhe it.

[Bantem]

My stats are in my sig.
Franco Columbu was 185 pounds at 5'5" and I don't think anyone would call him fat.
I don't see how guys could be under 150 pounds without being just skin and bones. Muscle is heavy. I'm picturing Captain America before he got the super serum.

That's because he has a lot of muscle, muscle weighs more than weight. I was going by the general LL candidate who isn't muscular. From most of the pictures I have seen from diaries, most people don't look like they work out.

Unless you are a skinny short man, 150lb are a joke for a man.
Even a normal 5.5ft guy should be at least 160lb with a few muscles on him.
I was less than 5.7 and I never was less than 165 lb from 18yo and till my LL.
Less than 150lb is normal for a girl, not a man, even a short one.

This is the dumbest   I have read. You have no clue what you are talking about. Muscle plays a role but most people who are doing LL aren't jacked, that's clear from all the diaries, neither is the average person. 150 pounds at 5'5 wouldn't make you skinny, if you knew what BMI was you, would know that.

[BelowTheMean]

That's because he has a lot of muscle, muscle weighs more than weight. I was going by the general LL candidate who isn't muscular. From most of the pictures I have seen from diaries, most people don't look like they work out.

Idk, I've read a lot of diaries on here and I think most of the guys here work out. I mean if someone is considering LL, they've probably already tried everything else they can to improve their looks, social status, etc. You don't just go permanently altering your body for a few centimeters in height without trying a few other things first. I think working out and reaching your personal peak physical shape is one of the things that most guys do first when they are trying to improve themselves.

I was always a mesomorph. Only ectomorphs can be so skinny (less than 68kg).
Maybe you are one, I don't know.

I'm 75kg and 13% body fat right now at 177cm. My legs are skinny too given that I just finished lengthening. I will shoot to 80kg+ quickly once I start going to the gym again.

With all this talk of guys who think they can weight bear with Precice, all I can think of is what Captain America looked like before he got the super serum. Now that's a short guy under 150 lbs for sure lol.

[Body Builder]

That's because he has a lot of muscle, muscle weighs more than weight. I was going by the general LL candidate who isn't muscular. From most of the pictures I have seen from diaries, most people don't look like they work out.
This is the dumbest   I have read. You have no clue what you are talking about. Muscle plays a role but most people who are doing LL aren't jacked, that's clear from all the diaries, neither is the average person. 150 pounds at 5'5 wouldn't make you skinny, if you knew what BMI was you, would know that.

It is plain stupidity to have never worked out, be skinny or simply without any muscles and do something so massive like LL to become better looking because in the end the result will be a skinny or unfit guy just 6-7cm taller who will still look bad.


If some of you are 60-65kg then before LL you should really try to build some muscles and have a normal weight for a man because maybe you'll feel better with yourself.
Otherwise, do all these at least after LL.
A scrawny guy will still look like   even with 6-7cm more.

[FormerKidd]

Idk, I've read a lot of diaries on here and I think most of the guys here work out. I mean if someone is considering LL, they've probably already tried everything else they can to improve their looks, social status, etc. You don't just go permanently altering your body for a few centimeters in height without trying a few other things first. I think working out and reaching your personal peak physical shape is one of the things that most guys do first when they are trying to improve themselves.

Unfortunately, I don't think this is the case.  Plenty of people are looking for something to blame (their height) and a quick fix.

LL should really be well down the list of things you try to improve yourself.

Does anyone have tips for using a walker during Precise 2 lengthening? I worry that I will accidentally break the nails.

Always distribute your weight amongst both feet. This means you cannot walk even with the walker, because then you're putting your weight on one foot -- you have to hop.  Both feet, no feet, both feet, no feet.

[fivetenneeded2016]

I am 59kg. I can walk easily on crutches and sometimes a few steps crutchless too. I am on 12.5mm precise.

Every doctor and person must agree that it is the muscles and soft tissues that become a limit while lengthening. So, if the goal is to lengthen a bit more, one could lose a bit of muscles pre LL.

I used to be 72kg preLL. LOST IT ONLY TO LENGTHEN MORE, specially coz I have already lengthened before.

Also you can anyway gain back the muscle over time with workout


On the contrary the worst thing you can do is preLL is body build Lol. you'd be the short stubby man with already short looking arms coz they are fat/bulky. Like a miniature johnnny bravo lol, i'd rather be the caption america pre evolution that eay lol.

[sportiveshort]

I looked the worst when I was 70k, like... chubby, my body felt heavy, but I guess that was just me, and a quick look into a BMI chart gives me reason.
But hey, we all have different bodies, some people have heavier bones (yes, that is actually true), heavier frames, and it is not great to say.. just because you weight less than 150 you are skinny/look bad.

As for me, I am waiting on Stryde as I value my mobility, and don't have the money yet. I will have enough early next year, and that is when I plan to do it.
However, if the option is not there, I will have to consider doing Precice.

Good tip about loosing weight before LL if I decide to go with Precice.
And now, thinking about it, it's crazy that you are doing it twice now. Good luck on your trip!

[RealLostSoul]

I was almost 1.69 and 75kg before LL with more than 40cm arms and about 14% bodyfat.
Now I am about 1.76 with 92kg and about 17% bodyfat and 47cm arms.
Of course I am not very fit right now but before LL I was.
So the majority of men are not under 68kg even if they are 1.65. And they are not fat, they are normal.
Being skinny as a man is maybe even worse than being short.

Unless you are a skinny short man, 150lb are a joke for a man.
Even a normal 5.5ft guy should be at least 160lb with a few muscles on him.
I was less than 5.7 and I never was less than 165 lb from 18yo and till my LL.
Less than 150lb is normal for a girl, not a man, even a short one.

guys don't listen to this, please. This is ignorant and biased.
First of all, Muscles have nothing to do with height. Height is a different thing. There are males who feel insecure because they have no muscles -> solution = work out. If you feel insecure bc of height -> solution = LL or wearing lifts.
Not everyone likes muscles aesthetically, and I am not addressing the homosxxual community here. I think being bulked up looks terrible but this is just my personal view, I respect people that view it differently and want to bulk up to feel better. It's their choice and they see it through their eyes. However, I am not stating that it looks objectively bad.
LL is for height and being skinny and lean helps giving a "longer" look so I don't even see the fking point here. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't see this as a dumb "incel" teenage rant forum where people just want to bE mOrE aTtRaCtIvE fOr WoMeN...

and 150lbs or lower for a short male is healthy and normal. you see it through a bubble of people who work(ed) out.

It is plain stupidity to have never worked out, be skinny or simply without any muscles and do something so massive like LL to become better looking because in the end the result will be a skinny or unfit guy just 6-7cm taller who will still look bad.
If some of you are 60-65kg then before LL you should really try to build some muscles and have a normal weight for a man because maybe you'll feel better with yourself.

You are literally a bodybuilder that's why you weight the same number as a fat guy. It's a fact that if you hit the gym you will gain weight quickly through muscles. If you want to talk about the muscle game and all that then rather go to a bodybuilding website or something like that. LL (for me at least) is about height (not size) and height means one-dimensional length of limbs/legs/body, not muscle mass.


Other than that, you guys shouldn't explicitly take BMI as the holy formula since it is kinda outdated bc it doesn't take visceral fat, muscles, stature phenotype (ecto, meso, endo), etc. etc. into account. Usually, people have a weight where they are healthy for themselves and this can vary. A medical checkup should determine if you are at a healthy weight for yourself.

I for example know a lot of people who are 60-70kg that are average height and average body. From my experience that would be the average body stats. About 5'11 or 6 feet tall and maybe 150lbs. That's where you are average height, average weight. Not thin not fat. (Maybe in other countries this is different).
I know one 5'8 dude who is 80kg and he deffo is chubby. Another friend is 6'5 weighing 65kg and he looks great (thin, young, healthy and tall).
Of course, you can now say being chubby looks so much better but this is just a personal view (in medieval times being obese was a beauty trait now it's being anorexic).

Also IMO I'd rather be skinny and average than tall and fat.

I looked the worst when I was 70k, like... chubby, my body felt heavy, but I guess that was just me, and a quick look into a BMI chart gives me reason.
But hey, we all have different bodies, some people have heavier bones (yes, that is actually true), heavier frames, and it is not great to say.. just because you weight less than 150 you are skinny/look bad.

Of course not. I think this is reasonable but I doubt "heavier bones" really exist. But you can have different statures etc (not only height but you know... phenotypes and metabolism).

Unfortunately, I don't think this is the case.  Plenty of people are looking for something to blame (their height) and a quick fix.

Most people that go through with LL are mature enough to understand the reality of it. It never is a quick fix and most people I see who really do it are happy with everything BUT their height. Which is the ideal scenario.
I haven't done it yet but I as an example do not blame physical traits for anything. I love my body and appearance in general except for my height, obviously, else I wouldn't be here lol.

On the contrary the worst thing you can do is preLL is body build Lol. you'd be the short stubby man with already short looking arms coz they are fat/bulky. Like a miniature johnnny bravo lol, i'd rather be the caption america pre evolution that eay lol.

Don't say that, some may find these aesthetics appealing. I personally agree but I wouldn't say it's a "bad thing" for everyone. However, some argued that having more muscles in your legs make it harder to stretch, if this is the case, you probably should avoid bodybuilding (your legs at least) preLL.

[BelowTheMean]

guys don't listen to this, please. This is ignorant and biased.
First of all, Muscles have nothing to do with height. Height is a different thing. There are males who feel insecure because they have no muscles -> solution = work out. If you feel insecure bc of height -> solution = LL or wearing lifts.
Not everyone likes muscles aesthetically, and I am not addressing the homosxxual community here. I think being bulked up looks terrible but this is just my personal view, I respect people that view it differently and want to bulk up to feel better. It's their choice and they see it through their eyes. However, I am not stating that it looks objectively bad.
LL is for height and being skinny and lean helps giving a "longer" look so I don't even see the fking point here. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't see this as a dumb "incel" teenage rant forum where people just want to bE mOrE aTtRaCtIvE fOr WoMeN...

Nice strawman argument. Why is it incel to want to look more attractive to those who you are attracted to? That's a perfectly valid reason to get limb lengthening and for many guys on here (myself included) it's one of the main reasons. You can try and shame us, but we are short (and ex-short) guys who are used to it so your words have no power over us. Even if you can already get a ton of girls, you'll still have access to even more girls and better quality ones if you grow taller.

In fact I've been on this forum and the old one for over seven years and I've read a large number of journals; I can tell you for a fact that there are quite a few guys doing to this be more attractive to the opposite sxx and there's nothing wrong with that. Many of the guys who have gotten the procedure done also work out, because having a better body is also something that's more attractive in general. The majority of attractive girls like built guys. Maybe you don't like conventionally attractive girls so you don't need to have muscles, but most guys want to be attractive in all aspects and not just tall and skinny.

One of the multimillionaire LL vets on here once said (paraphrased) if you have a lot of money the girl will be attracted to the money, but if you spend it on LL you're increasing the likelihood that she'll be attracted to you. I believe the same concept applies to muscles (in that muscles are part of the definition of you) and you don't even need to spend money to build muscles.

I for example know a lot of people who are 60-70kg that are average height and average body. From my experience that would be the average body stats. About 5'11 or 6 feet tall and maybe 150lbs. That's where you are average height, average weight. Not thin not fat. (Maybe in other countries this is different).
I know one 5'8 dude who is 80kg and he deffo is chubby. Another friend is 6'5 weighing 65kg and he looks great (thin, young, healthy and tall).
Of course, you can now say being chubby looks so much better but this is just a personal view (in medieval times being obese was a beauty trait now it's being anorexic).

Also IMO I'd rather be skinny and average than tall and fat.

Yeah, and I know a lot of heavy short guys in good shape too. I have a friend who is an amateur MMA fighter (accountant by day). He's 5'7" with a 5'11" wingspan and he weights 180 pounds. He looks a little bulky, but I've seen him take down taller guys on many occasions before. The shortest friend I have is about 5'4" and he's an amateur bodybuilder (financial analyst by day) and he weighs almost 170 lbs I'm sure. He can bench press a pair of 125 lb dumbbells 15 times. The guy is an absolute beast and has over 15K instagram followers. He can also do a ton of muscle-ups, so he's not heavy at all given his level of strength.

Your 195cm friend probably couldn't beat either of my short friends in a fight because 65kg at that height is literally just skin and bones. The average 195cm athlete is over 110kg.

Also, who in the world wants to be average anyway? Average guys get below average girls, attractive guys get average girls, top of the line guys get attractive girls. Given your two choices, I (and most smart guys) would rather be tall and fat than skinny and average, because then I could just spend a year turning myself into tall and ripped and then have no more complaints about my body ever again.

[Body Builder]

guys don't listen to this, please. This is ignorant and biased.
First of all, Muscles have nothing to do with height. Height is a different thing. There are males who feel insecure because they have no muscles -> solution = work out. If you feel insecure bc of height -> solution = LL or wearing lifts.
Not everyone likes muscles aesthetically, and I am not addressing the homosxxual community here. I think being bulked up looks terrible but this is just my personal view, I respect people that view it differently and want to bulk up to feel better. It's their choice and they see it through their eyes. However, I am not stating that it looks objectively bad.
LL is for height and being skinny and lean helps giving a "longer" look so I don't even see the fking point here. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't see this as a dumb "incel" teenage rant forum where people just want to bE mOrE aTtRaCtIvE fOr WoMeN...

and 150lbs or lower for a short male is healthy and normal. you see it through a bubble of people who work(ed) out.

You are literally a bodybuilder that's why you weight the same number as a fat guy. It's a fact that if you hit the gym you will gain weight quickly through muscles. If you want to talk about the muscle game and all that then rather go to a bodybuilding website or something like that. LL (for me at least) is about height (not size) and height means one-dimensional length of limbs/legs/body, not muscle mass.


Other than that, you guys shouldn't explicitly take BMI as the holy formula since it is kinda outdated bc it doesn't take visceral fat, muscles, stature phenotype (ecto, meso, endo), etc. etc. into account. Usually, people have a weight where they are healthy for themselves and this can vary. A medical checkup should determine if you are at a healthy weight for yourself.

I for example know a lot of people who are 60-70kg that are average height and average body. From my experience that would be the average body stats. About 5'11 or 6 feet tall and maybe 150lbs. That's where you are average height, average weight. Not thin not fat. (Maybe in other countries this is different).
I know one 5'8 dude who is 80kg and he deffo is chubby. Another friend is 6'5 weighing 65kg and he looks great (thin, young, healthy and tall).
Of course, you can now say being chubby looks so much better but this is just a personal view (in medieval times being obese was a beauty trait now it's being anorexic).

Also IMO I'd rather be skinny and average than tall and fat.

Of course not. I think this is reasonable but I doubt "heavier bones" really exist. But you can have different statures etc (not only height but you know... phenotypes and metabolism).


Most people that go through with LL are mature enough to understand the reality of it. It never is a quick fix and most people I see who really do it are happy with everything BUT their height. Which is the ideal scenario.
I haven't done it yet but I as an example do not blame physical traits for anything. I love my body and appearance in general except for my height, obviously, else I wouldn't be here lol.


Don't say that, some may find these aesthetics appealing. I personally agree but I wouldn't say it's a "bad thing" for everyone. However, some argued that having more muscles in your legs make it harder to stretch, if this is the case, you probably should avoid bodybuilding (your legs at least) preLL.

Sorry but 6.5 with 65kg is a joke.
Noone can look even normal being that tall and skinny.

I don't say do bbing. I am just saying that it is stupid to be scrawny and think that your only problem is height or become scrawny to maybe make precise 2 a little more weight bearing which will still be prone to break even if you are only 150lbs.

I wanted to say that being attractive is a sum and some people here look very bad (unfit, skinny, bad style etc) and still think that adding 6cm will make them attractive etc which will not happen, simple as that.

[sportiveshort]

Yep, makes sense.
I think everybody should take care of themselves before trying CLL.

[Bantem]

It is plain stupidity to have never worked out, be skinny or simply without any muscles and do something so massive like LL to become better looking because in the end the result will be a skinny or unfit guy just 6-7cm taller who will still look bad.


If some of you are 60-65kg then before LL you should really try to build some muscles and have a normal weight for a man because maybe you'll feel better with yourself.
Otherwise, do all these at least after LL.
A scrawny guy will still look like   even with 6-7cm more.

I do agree with you in that regard and people definitely should work out pre-LL. Only upper body though, so it will make it easier to get around with crutches, it is not recommended by doctors to work out the legs, besides stretching.

[RealLostSoul]

Nice strawman argument. Why is it incel to want to look more attractive to those who you are attracted to? That's a perfectly valid reason to get limb lengthening and for many guys on here (myself included) it's one of the main reasons. You can try and shame us, but we are short (and ex-short) guys who are used to it so your words have no power over us. Even if you can already get a ton of girls, you'll still have access to even more girls and better quality ones if you grow taller.

In fact I've been on this forum and the old one for over seven years and I've read a large number of journals; I can tell you for a fact that there are quite a few guys doing to this be more attractive to the opposite sxx and there's nothing wrong with that. Many of the guys who have gotten the procedure done also work out, because having a better body is also something that's more attractive in general. The majority of attractive girls like built guys. Maybe you don't like conventionally attractive girls so you don't need to have muscles, but most guys want to be attractive in all aspects and not just tall and skinny.

One of the multimillionaire LL vets on here once said (paraphrased) if you have a lot of money the girl will be attracted to the money, but if you spend it on LL you're increasing the likelihood that she'll be attracted to you. I believe the same concept applies to muscles (in that muscles are part of the definition of you) and you don't even need to spend money to build muscles.

Yeah, and I know a lot of heavy short guys in good shape too. I have a friend who is an amateur MMA fighter (accountant by day). He's 5'7" with a 5'11" wingspan and he weights 180 pounds. He looks a little bulky, but I've seen him take down taller guys on many occasions before. The shortest friend I have is about 5'4" and he's an amateur bodybuilder (financial analyst by day) and he weighs almost 170 lbs I'm sure. He can bench press a pair of 125 lb dumbbells 15 times. The guy is an absolute beast and has over 15K instagram followers. He can also do a ton of muscle-ups, so he's not heavy at all given his level of strength.

Your 195cm friend probably couldn't beat either of my short friends in a fight because 65kg at that height is literally just skin and bones. The average 195cm athlete is over 110kg.

Also, who in the world wants to be average anyway? Average guys get below average girls, attractive guys get average girls, top of the line guys get attractive girls. Given your two choices, I (and most smart guys) would rather be tall and fat than skinny and average, because then I could just spend a year turning myself into tall and ripped and then have no more complaints about my body ever again.

Woah I never said that it's incel to want to be more attractive. That's is a valid thing ofc, I am not sugarcoating that. Yes, height is a big attractiveness factor, of course. I am just stating that this is not a "looks maximize" and dating forum per se. If you have problems with your appearance in general, you will find other places. This is solely for those who want to lengthen their bones.
That "better quality" argument is bs btw. No offense but that's a pretty big "incel" statement tbh. Humans don't have any value sorry but that's just the truth. It's not like "oh you own X money so you are able to drive a Lamborghini". "Oh you are 7/10 so you are able to find a mate that is 7/10 AT MOST, probably only 4/10 because your height measures X'ZX.". like wtf bro real life doesn't work like that. Surely attractiveness is important in finding a romantic partner but it is not the only thing. and defining humans by quality is utter garbage. At least saying so and referring to one's appearance. If you say you want to interpret value into people's lives I'd say the only ethnically correct way to do so is by looking at each person's action. Someone does good things so he is a "better person". That's the only valid way, other than that just makes the one judging a degenerate.

Yes, if you are an athlete you will weigh more, that's true. Also probably more wingspan, skull size, hand feet size etc. mean more weight.

Yes, he wouldn't beat anyone xD. but we are not living in the Klingon empire where you have to establish your worth by physical confrontations. Advanced, civilized humans don't need to hit each other like fking monkeys to determine who is more "Alpha". People that feel the need to do so are generally ones you should avoid.

I respect your reason for wanting to do LL btw, I'll never be someone saying it's a wrong mindset to do LL for girls or anything like that but I see that I come from a different end of the spectrum of people than you or others that do LL primarily for attractiveness .

Sorry but 6.5 with 65kg is a joke.
Noone can look even normal being that tall and skinny.

I don't say do bbing. I am just saying that it is stupid to be scrawny and think that your only problem is height or become scrawny to maybe make precise 2 a little more weight bearing which will still be prone to break even if you are only 150lbs.

I wanted to say that being attractive is a sum and some people here look very bad (unfit, skinny, bad style etc) and still think that adding 6cm will make them attractive etc which will not happen, simple as that.

He does bro, for real.

By saying that you are defining it as a problem to be low weight. No, it is not, for me at least. The same goes for height. Being short is no problem per se. There is NOTHING wrong with people that are short (excluding achondroplasia/dwarfism people). To be exact, there are billions of people who are "short", not every single one of them has psychological or sociological issues. So it is an individual mental problem that one can have. And trust me I am the last one to say being obese af or anorexic is healthy and all good. But from a medical standpoint, if you are low weight (in a healthy manner) there is nothing wrong with you just like if you are short (in a healthy manner).

I agree though that going anorexia for precise is not worth it of course.

That might be true I am not denying this, however, they are not explicitly here to become more attractive in general. especially those who have a family already, they just wanna be taller to feel better I suppose.


My point of this whole debate is that not everyone has the same reason to get LL (which is to become more attractive for the opposite sxx). And for the surgery and procedure, you should just be fit and healthy, normal, and if possible young is better (not necessary though).

[BelowTheMean]

Woah I never said that it's incel to want to be more attractive. That's is a valid thing ofc, I am not sugarcoating that. Yes, height is a big attractiveness factor, of course. I am just stating that this is not a "looks maximize" and dating forum per se. If you have problems with your appearance in general, you will find other places. This is solely for those who want to lengthen their bones.
That "better quality" argument is bs btw. No offense but that's a pretty big "incel" statement tbh. Humans don't have any value sorry but that's just the truth. It's not like "oh you own X money so you are able to drive a Lamborghini". "Oh you are 7/10 so you are able to find a mate that is 7/10 AT MOST, probably only 4/10 because your height measures X'ZX.". like wtf bro real life doesn't work like that. Surely attractiveness is important in finding a romantic partner but it is not the only thing. and defining humans by quality is utter garbage. At least saying so and referring to one's appearance. If you say you want to interpret value into people's lives I'd say the only ethnically correct way to do so is by looking at each person's action. Someone does good things so he is a "better person". That's the only valid way, other than that just makes the one judging a degenerate.

Yes, if you are an athlete you will weigh more, that's true. Also probably more wingspan, skull size, hand feet size etc. mean more weight.

Yes, he wouldn't beat anyone xD. but we are not living in the Klingon empire where you have to establish your worth by physical confrontations. Advanced, civilized humans don't need to hit each other like fking monkeys to determine who is more "Alpha". People that feel the need to do so are generally ones you should avoid.

I respect your reason for wanting to do LL btw, I'll never be someone saying it's a wrong mindset to do LL for girls or anything like that but I see that I come from a different end of the spectrum of people than you or others that do LL primarily for attractiveness .

I think you may be too naïve or idealistic. Humans are not as advanced or civilized as you think. Most people don't live, they mere exist and follow their basic biological programming. I never said that it was correct to value humans based on their physical appearance, but I am saying that it's how the world works. Me, you, and everyone else on this forum could agree that it's not how things should be, but that's not going to change reality. A few centuries of philosophy is not going to overwrite millions of years of evolution in the visual cortex of our brains. While we can't change the world, we can change our place in it by lengthening our legs to fit into better, which is why this forum exists. You can say this is an LL forum and only for LL, but I've been here for a long time and people on here have discussed many topics related to LL and attractiveness to the opposite sex is one of the big ones.

Human interactions, like anything else given a large enough population, are driven by the law or large numbers. There are always outliers, but most people end up dating someone at least somewhat similar to themselves in level of physical attractiveness. I think it can be clearly understood from my post that I was referring to patterns of behaviors among groups of people and not setting an absolute set of rules that no one can bypass. You can say that attractiveness is not the only important thing in finding a romantic partner and I can say that an air tank isn't the only important thing when scuba diving. Both statements are technically true, but neither has a purpose. Besides, I never said my goal is to find a romantic partner. Nobody needs LL to do that. I want to find the best romantic partner available to me, otherwise it wouldn't be worth the time and money to invest in LL.

Everyone loves to claim that they're unique or special, but the truth is most people are not. You might feel that each girl you date is different, but once you date enough of them you'll see some clear patterns emerge. If not after 10 or 20, then definitely by 100 or 200. You should be able to fit them into a distribution at that point and compare that to the general population to see how you're doing on quality. Don't get me wrong though, men are just as bland. Working out, getting LL, etc. are all things we do so we can transform ourselves into the image of a conventionally attractive man. Women are just as shallow as men when it comes to appearance (in fact some would argue even more so than men.) Whether or not she's attracted to you is mostly determined before you even open your mouth. I suppose after the first impression you can still change your standing with her, but you're already walking uphill or downhill at that point. I think most people on here understand this instinctively, which is why LL has so much value to men.

That might be true I am not denying this, however, they are not explicitly here to become more attractive in general. especially those who have a family already, they just wanna be taller to feel better I suppose.

Just because someone has a family already doesn't make them instantly asexual. You can still want to be more attractive for your spouse. Besides, divorces do happen, and at a pretty high rate in the western world. It's best to be prepared for anything.

[RealLostSoul]

I think you may be too naïve or idealistic. Humans are not as advanced or civilized as you think. Most people don't live, they mere exist and follow their basic biological programming. I never said that it was correct to value humans based on their physical appearance, but I am saying that it's how the world works. Me, you, and everyone else on this forum could agree that it's not how things should be, but that's not going to change reality. A few centuries of philosophy is not going to overwrite millions of years of evolution in the visual cortex of our brains. While we can't change the world, we can change our place in it by lengthening our legs to fit into better, which is why this forum exists. You can say this is an LL forum and only for LL, but I've been here for a long time and people on here have discussed many topics related to LL and attractiveness to the opposite sxx is one of the big ones.

Human interactions, like anything else given a large enough population, are driven by the law or large numbers. There are always outliers, but most people end up dating someone at least somewhat similar to themselves in level of physical attractiveness. I think it can be clearly understood from my post that I was referring to patterns of behaviors among groups of people and not setting an absolute set of rules that no one can bypass. You can say that attractiveness is not the only important thing in finding a romantic partner and I can say that an air tank isn't the only important thing when scuba diving. Both statements are technically true, but neither has a purpose. Besides, I never said my goal is to find a romantic partner. Nobody needs LL to do that. I want to find the best romantic partner available to me, otherwise it wouldn't be worth the time and money to invest in LL.

Everyone loves to claim that they're unique or special, but the truth is most people are not. You might feel that each girl you date is different, but once you date enough of them you'll see some clear patterns emerge. If not after 10 or 20, then definitely by 100 or 200. You should be able to fit them into a distribution at that point and compare that to the general population to see how you're doing on quality. Don't get me wrong though, men are just as bland. Working out, getting LL, etc. are all things we do so we can transform ourselves into the image of a conventionally attractive man. Women are just as shallow as men when it comes to appearance (in fact some would argue even more so than men.) Whether or not she's attracted to you is mostly determined before you even open your mouth. I suppose after the first impression you can still change your standing with her, but you're already walking uphill or downhill at that point. I think most people on here understand this instinctively, which is why LL has so much value to men.

Just because someone has a family already doesn't make them instantly asxxual. You can still want to be more attractive for your spouse. Besides, divorces do happen, and at a pretty high rate in the western world. It's best to be prepared for anything.

Calm down that sounds much like a teenage angst rant.
Humans are individually different. Yes, I agree that the vast majority of humans are pretty damn similar to gorillas in a zoo going through their everyday lives. However, there are those who are further down the rabbit hole of intellectualism. You can choose which people you surround yourself with. Do you really want those shallow idiots who judge you by unchangeable traits?

And don't get started on brain stuff, you know what's the one special brain anatomy thing for humans? The enlarged growth of the parieto-temporal lobe. It actually grows over the insula in humans. you can see this type of evolution in other grand apes but in humans it's the most distinctive. What comes with this? Advanced speech, communication, and sociology (primarily). Thus, one can argue that for us the complexity of communication is far more important in sxxuality too.

See, this sounds like a teen talking about "the meaning of life in a biological way is just fking ". The truth is, well yes, but actually no. Humans are supposed to be K-type reproductive species, which means their meaning of life is actually to RAISE their offspring, because it favors quality over quantity. That's also the best thesis as of now for the reason for homosxxuality (homosxxuals are determined to "help raise relative's offspring").


I think you should invest your money to feel better about yourself, gain more self worth, self esteem, in public situations or when under people. That will absolutely help you find a partner. and if you are below X type of percentile (probably 5'5 and below?), I agree that a really low height makes it HARD to find a partner so I see that this is a motivation of course.


See, I agree with the partner thing though, the first impression of looks is important, but it is indeed subjective!!! never forget that. If you see someone, you will always have them unconsciously "scanned" if they are "your type" or not. This however can vary so much. For example, probably bc of my history of height-related mental illness, I would want a girl who is tall (6ft and above ideally, not that uncommon in my country btw). All of my friends say though that this would be a "red flag" for them. Most men want small or average girl, max the same height as them. Some of my friends even have a kink for "petite" girls. But a taller girlfriend? No way! For most of them at least, but for me it would be good. Even if I'd lengthen to 6'7 I'd prefer girls who are 6'7 and above lol. Maybe it's a fetish thing.
But see, it can vary and not all beauty norms are 100% true. Especially things like tan (which I absolutely dislike, pale is better ) or hairstyle etc,. but ironically, the universally important thing is height, maybe it represents a genome that was important in evolution, who knows.


But maybe you are right and more people are only in for the sxxual aspects of LL, I am not though I do this for myself, not for anyone else, not to find a girlfriend or to be more attractive to girls (I couldn't stand when many girls would try to sxxually approach me anyways ugh. Just want a good one and be happy that's it).


oh and I forgot, about the moral dilemma. Morality is what advances in a progressing civilization. See how much different the world is now in comparison to medieval times. This is because collective morality is progressing in a sentient species. without any morale, a human-like species would destroy itself (which might eventually turn around and happen though). only very different species like a borg-like hive mind could progress and work. However, this just might be a theory of mine. And advanced humans judge no one by their looks anymore, eg. see how you would never hate a friend or family member because of their "lower than average" looks, right?. (we can't unchanged our inner program of mating preference though, you are right about that)

[V21]

I don't know dude. My gf is a 5'8 model and I was 5'6 when we started dating. She did use to give me   about it lol. Anyway, I think character is the most important thing, women like people who listen to them, and who are "different". I don't think this crazy journey is worth it just to be more attractive to the other sex. It's not like a few inches is THAT important. I had more success being 5'6 (I was incredibly jacked) than now at 5'8 lol. Just my opinion.

[BelowTheMean]

Calm down that sounds much like a teenage angst rant.
Humans are individually different. Yes, I agree that the vast majority of humans are pretty damn similar to gorillas in a zoo going through their everyday lives. However, there are those who are further down the rabbit hole of intellectualism. You can choose which people you surround yourself with. Do you really want those shallow idiots who judge you by unchangeable traits?

Actually, you can’t choose who you surround yourself with. You can pick your own friends, but you can’t avoid the average person all the time. You don’t get to pick your classmates or your bullies at school and you don’t always get to pick your boss or coworkers at work. You don’t always get to pick your business partners, clients, and vendors either. You can pick your own girlfriend but you can’t pick who her friends are. You’ll have to interact with people who don’t share the same values, views, and morals with you no matter who you are. If you could avoid all of them completely, then you wouldn’t need to get LL. You could just surround yourself with people who don’t view additional height as a positive attribute and forget about the whole thing.

And don't get started on brain stuff, you know what's the one special brain anatomy thing for humans? The enlarged growth of the parieto-temporal lobe. It actually grows over the insula in humans. you can see this type of evolution in other grand apes but in humans it's the most distinctive. What comes with this? Advanced speech, communication, and sociology (primarily). Thus, one can argue that for us the complexity of communication is far more important in sxxuality too.

That’s great, but you’ll never get a chance to open your mouth and exhibit any of those qualities if she writes you off instantly because of your height.

See, this sounds like a teen talking about "the meaning of life in a biological way is just fking ". The truth is, well yes, but actually no. Humans are supposed to be K-type reproductive species, which means their meaning of life is actually to RAISE their offspring, because it favors quality over quantity. That's also the best thesis as of now for the reason for homosxxuality (homosxxuals are determined to "help raise relative's offspring").

I am in no way attempting to define the meaning of life, but what I can do is tell you that those who care more about the quality of their offspring will be outbred by those who care more about the quantity of their offspring in the long run. Natural selection hardly applies to humans on an individual level nowadays. If you don’t raise your own kids, the taxpayer will.

Note that I’m not condoning this behavior nor would I partake, I’m just pointing out from a philosophical standpoint that what you deem to be meaningful is not the same to everyone.

I think you should invest your money to feel better about yourself, gain more self worth, self esteem, in public situations or when under people. That will absolutely help you find a partner. and if you are below X type of percentile (probably 5'5 and below?), I agree that a really low height makes it HARD to find a partner so I see that this is a motivation of course.

Again, it’s not impossible for a man to find a partner no matter what his height is, and for most it's not even that hard. Almost everyone ends up dating at least a few people over the course of their lives. How difficult it is to find a partner that you like depends on how picky you are relative to what you bring to the table. If you are too picky then you either have to settle or need to do something about your height (or other attributes that could be improved.) I'm very picky, which is why I felt like I needed LL to improve my odds.

See, I agree with the partner thing though, the first impression of looks is important, but it is indeed subjective!!! never forget that. If you see someone, you will always have them unconsciously "scanned" if they are "your type" or not. This however can vary so much. For example, probably bc of my history of height-related mental illness, I would want a girl who is tall (6ft and above ideally, not that uncommon in my country btw). All of my friends say though that this would be a "red flag" for them. Most men want small or average girl, max the same height as them. Some of my friends even have a kink for "petite" girls. But a taller girlfriend? No way! For most of them at least, but for me it would be good. Even if I'd lengthen to 6'7 I'd prefer girls who are 6'7 and above lol. Maybe it's a fetish thing.
But see, it can vary and not all beauty norms are 100% true. Especially things like tan (which I absolutely dislike, pale is better ) or hairstyle etc,. but ironically, the universally important thing is height, maybe it represents a genome that was important in evolution, who knows.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but statistically some people are more attractive than others. If 50% of people find person A attractive and 95% of people find person B attractive, by definition person B is much more attractive than person A, but that doesn’t mean person A doesn’t have any prospects and it doesn't mean that everyone would find person B more attractive than person A. I personally like the type of girls that a large number of men would find attractive (so conventionally attractive ones) so I got LL to improve my chances in the competitive pool, because I want every edge that I can get when competition is fierce.

But maybe you are right and more people are only in for the sxxual aspects of LL, I am not though I do this for myself, not for anyone else, not to find a girlfriend or to be more attractive to girls (I couldn't stand when many girls would try to sxxually approach me anyways ugh. Just want a good one and be happy that's it).

What does it even mean to “do this for yourself?” I mean technically I did it for myself too. After all, I’m the one who ultimately benefits from getting it done. I think it’s actually pretty difficult to do this surgery purely for other people based on the nature of the surgery. Even if you’re not interested in dating, getting the surgery would still benefit you should you want to date. Even if you’re not interested in what other people think about you, you still benefit from the social acceptance of being taller.

I don’t just want to settle for a “good” one; if I was okay with that then I would have gotten married a long time ago and I would never do something as extreme as LL because it’s not difficult to find a decent girl and live happily ever after. I’m greedy as hell and I want the best possible female available to me. Of course, there’s some luck involved, but the idea behind getting LL is to increase my odds. Based on my personal experiences, height is what I was lacking the most. I’ll have to continue going through a lot of women to find the right one, but hey, life’s not perfect.

If you have lots of women gunning for you, then why do you need the surgery? Surely at least one must be attractive in your eyes.

oh and I forgot, about the moral dilemma. Morality is what advances in a progressing civilization. See how much different the world is now in comparison to medieval times. This is because collective morality is progressing in a sentient species. without any morale, a human-like species would destroy itself (which might eventually turn around and happen though). only very different species like a borg-like hive mind could progress and work. However, this just might be a theory of mine. And advanced humans judge no one by their looks anymore, eg. see how you would never hate a friend or family member because of their "lower than average" looks, right?. (we can't unchanged our inner program of mating preference though, you are right about that)

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if humanity destroys itself. Might as well enjoy your time on Earth living to your fullest potential.

[BelowTheMean]

I don't know dude. My gf is a 5'8 model and I was 5'6 when we started dating. She did use to give me   about it lol. Anyway, I think character is the most important thing, women like people who listen to them, and who are "different". I don't think this crazy journey is worth it just to be more attractive to the other sxx. It's not like a few inches is THAT important. I had more success being 5'6 (I was incredibly jacked) than now at 5'8 lol. Just my opinion.

I have the exact opposite viewpoint as you. If you already have a wife or someone that you plan on staying together with permanently, then why suffer through LL? It's not like they were opposed to your original height to the point where they wouldn't be with you. You could spend the time and money doing something that's actually enjoyable. Surely you must have other meaningful goals in your life. I always write off LL when I'm in a relationship and the only reason I got around to doing LL is because I was single during the pandemic.

In dating the more picky you are the more you need every edge you can get, especially online dating. A few inches makes a huge difference and anyone who says otherwise is lying. All of the anecdotal historical experience on here points to a solid improvement in dating as a taller guy. Besides, if it wasn't important who in the world would spend almost $100K getting taller? The people of the forum are voting that it's important with their wallets.

[Serilium]

What does it even mean to “do this for yourself?” I mean technically I did it for myself too. After all, I’m the one who ultimately benefits from getting it done. I think it’s actually pretty difficult to do this surgery purely for other people based on the nature of the surgery. Even if you’re not interested in dating, getting the surgery would still benefit you should you want to date. Even if you’re not interested in what other people think about you, you still benefit from the social acceptance of being taller.

That is a very good point.

[Body Builder]

I have the exact opposite viewpoint as you. If you already have a wife or someone that you plan on staying together with permanently, then why suffer through LL? It's not like they were opposed to your original height to the point where they wouldn't be with you. You could spend the time and money doing something that's actually enjoyable. Surely you must have other meaningful goals in your life. I always write off LL when I'm in a relationship and the only reason I got around to doing LL is because I was single during the pandemic.

In dating the more picky you are the more you need every edge you can get, especially online dating. A few inches makes a huge difference and anyone who says otherwise is lying. All of the anecdotal historical experience on here points to a solid improvement in dating as a taller guy. Besides, if it wasn't important who in the world would spend almost $100K getting taller? The people of the forum are voting that it's important with their wallets.

Very well said.
I was thinking a lot about a second LL for the last years but after I found someone that I really think that she is ideal to be my future woman I almost forgot about a new LL because I can't find where exactly it would help me except from attracting other women easier to find the one I think as the ideal for me.
I prefer to not risk my legs further and to spend that amount of money to a better house or a new car or some trips with my girl.

I truly believe that LL is significant most of all to be more attractive to women.
Otherwise, unless you are very short (less than 1.65) things are not so hard everywhere else. Of course height helps everywhere but most of all it helps with women where a short man is almost doomed.
Even an average man can have some benefits with women if he adds 2-3 inches with LL while he won't have any benefit anywhere else in his life.

So V21 I can't understand why you underestimate height that much although you did LL even though you had a very good looming gf. I think that anyone like us who did something so hard like LL really understand how that added height could help us improve our lives otherwise I can't understand why you did it.
Personally, that 3 inches I added changed my life much and I am a different person right now, a person that for sure my 1.68 self would have never been.

[silverlining]

Hey bodybuilder, I'm around your height pre-lengthening (170cm). Did adding 8cm change your life drastically?

[V21]

I have the exact opposite viewpoint as you. If you already have a wife or someone that you plan on staying together with permanently, then why suffer through LL? It's not like they were opposed to your original height to the point where they wouldn't be with you. You could spend the time and money doing something that's actually enjoyable. Surely you must have other meaningful goals in your life. I always write off LL when I'm in a relationship and the only reason I got around to doing LL is because I was single during the pandemic.

In dating the more picky you are the more you need every edge you can get, especially online dating. A few inches makes a huge difference and anyone who says otherwise is lying. All of the anecdotal historical experience on here points to a solid improvement in dating as a taller guy. Besides, if it wasn't important who in the world would spend almost $100K getting taller? The people of the forum are voting that it's important with their wallets.

Because I do it for mental health and in order to feel better with myself. I have severe height dysphoria (even I'm not "short"), and I'm tired of living with feelings of failure. I want to look at myself and feel great, and that is worth even doing Precice. So, I couldn't care less about what women or others think about it, I care about what I feel about it. However, I respect your reasons, everyone who is willing to do this has a big set of balls lol, and you had a tough journey with the damn nerve pain. It's just hard for me to understand having this hell for women. Anyway, I'm glad you were succesful dude, 8 cm is a crazy difference

[Jamesy998]

Because I do it for mental health and in order to feel better with myself. I have severe height dysphoria (even I'm not "short"), and I'm tired of living with feelings of failure. I want to look at myself and feel great, and that is worth even doing Precice. So, I couldn't care less about what women or others think about it, I care about what I feel about it. However, I respect your reasons, everyone who is willing to do this has a big set of balls lol, and you had a tough journey with the damn nerve pain. It's just hard for me to understand having this hell for women. Anyway, I'm glad you were succesful dude, 8 cm is a crazy difference

I agree with you simply because you say you are doing it for yourself. There are others so delusional on here thinking they will increase their game with women or achieve great things with a 8cm gain, thats all idiotic and laughable. As long as you are not expecting to become a God with women and get promotions then you are good to go.

[Siegfried]

How long does it usually take for the femur-bone to consolidate with precise 2, lets say with a above average bone-growth?

[RealLostSoul]

Because I do it for mental health and in order to feel better with myself. I have severe height dysphoria (even I'm not "short"), and I'm tired of living with feelings of failure. I want to look at myself and feel great, and that is worth even doing Precice. So, I couldn't care less about what women or others think about it, I care about what I feel about it. However, I respect your reasons, everyone who is willing to do this has a big set of balls lol, and you had a tough journey with the damn nerve pain. It's just hard for me to understand having this hell for women. Anyway, I'm glad you were succesful dude, 8 cm is a crazy difference

I agree with you simply because you say you are doing it for yourself. There are others so delusional on here thinking they will increase their game with women or achieve great things with a 8cm gain, thats all idiotic and laughable. As long as you are not expecting to become a God with women and get promotions then you are good to go.

I'll answer the rest if I have more time (in a couple of days) but as of now I only agree with these two statements here. That's exactly my thoughts.

How long does it usually take for the femur-bone to consolidate with precise 2, lets say with a above average bone-growth?

Depends on the amount of lengthening and your healing rate but for 8cm you can expect to walk unaided after about ~2months post distraction phase.
How long does it usually take for the femur-bone to consolidate with precise 2, lets say with a above average bone-growth?

[RB]

I have the exact opposite viewpoint as you. If you already have a wife or someone that you plan on staying together with permanently, then why suffer through LL? It's not like they were opposed to your original height to the point where they wouldn't be with you. You could spend the time and money doing something that's actually enjoyable. Surely you must have other meaningful goals in your life. I always write off LL when I'm in a relationship and the only reason I got around to doing LL is because I was single during the pandemic.

In dating the more picky you are the more you need every edge you can get, especially online dating. A few inches makes a huge difference and anyone who says otherwise is lying. All of the anecdotal historical experience on here points to a solid improvement in dating as a taller guy. Besides, if it wasn't important who in the world would spend almost $100K getting taller? The people of the forum are voting that it's important with their wallets.

Because height dysphoria and being short doesn't magically go away when you are in a relationship. I also have a great girlfriend who I see a long-term future with but I was sick and tired of being 5'4" and the associated disadvantages that come with it. Height dysphoria causes you to think about your height in basically every social situation, regardless of if you have a gf or not. Being short is not just a disadvantage in the dating world, it is a disadvantage in just about every social interaction. This is why people can do LL for reasons other than purely dating related. Maybe my mindset is different as your starting height is close to my goal height but I would do LL whether I had a gf/wife or not.

[BelowTheMean]

I think we have all gone through vastly different experiences in life, which shapes our perspectives on things. Personally, I don't have enough height dysphoria outside the context of dating to feel like it's worth getting CLL to address. Some of you may have though, and I'm very curious what experiences led you to feeling like you need to get CLL. Maybe I'm missing something or overlooked something.

In terms of my career I don't think my height has been a hindrance. It definitely has not been an issue in the context of making friends. Honestly, outside of dating the worst trigger for my height dysphoria is when I get my car back from the valet and they moved the driver's seat way back. This isn't something I would ever consider getting CLL for though. I thought that my thighs were short and stubby before I got CLL, but that's definitely not something I would have gotten CLL to fix. In social settings, among groups of guys I've never been treated worse for being short. I do feel a little height dysphoria if many of the guys in the group are tall, but that's because I feel some resentment due to my belief that they have an easier time with women given their height. Realistically it's most likely not true, but that's what triggers my height dysphoria.

In the context of dating though, my experience has been completely different. I didn't even know that being short was a bad thing until my first serious girlfriend dumped me for a tall guy and by then I was out of college already. I somehow managed to spend all of my youth not having any height dysphoria. However, once I started having height dysphoria, I noticed it in all of my interactions with women. I've hooked up with 100+ women and therefore have collected a lot of data regarding how someone of my height is treated in the dating world. Note that I tell women I'm 5'8"/172cm and wear lifts when going out so I can usually "pass" as 5'8"/172cm. Here are some of the examples of my height-related experiences interacting with women as a short guy.

• Pretty much every girl I've dated who has had a taller ex (all of them) has compared their ex's height with mine and then called me short.
• One girl I dated who was 5'2"/158cm told me that none of her ex's were under 5'11"/180cm and that she was willing to date a short guy like me because she was getting older and ready to settle down (she was 27.) She also claimed she was taller than me every time she wore heels even though she was clearly not! She also said she didn't think any girls taller than her would be willing to date me because anyone taller than her would make me look short and girls don't like having short boyfriends.
• One girl I hooked up with who was only 5'1"/155cm randomly mentioned that her ex was 6'5"/195cm and played basketball in college while we were making out (wtf?) I'm sure she was just sh*t-testing me but when I asked her why she would point this out, and she said it was so I didn't feel like I was special. She was extremely hot, otherwise I would not have put up with her. She ghosted me two weeks after that anyway and I'm pretty sure the only reason we had a fling was because she wanted to try a muscular guy (I was in really good shape then.)
• One ex-gf who was 5'4"/162cm gave me so much crap for being short. Every time she wore heels or even stood on her tippy toes, she would point out that she was taller than me and laugh at me when I tried to deny it. She would also constantly joke about having to "crouch down" when we took pictures together so it wouldn't look like she was dating a short guy. She also frequently mentioned how every single one of her ex's were taller than me.
• Multiple girls have said something along the lines that they "did me a favor" after we hooked up because I am so short.
• One girl I hooked up with (5'8"/173cm) said that she didn't mind short guys because she was "generous". Wtf does that even mean? Guess it's just another girl pointing out that I'm short!
• One girl (5'5"/165cm) told me she was down to hookup whenever, but refused to ever be seen in public with me because I was too short. Like she literally would not even let me walk her down to my condo lobby in the morning. I was taller than her too...
• After we hooked up, I was walking my dog with one girl (5'9"/175cm) but when she saw someone approaching down the sidewalk she took a few steps away from me. She told me she didn't want people to think that she was with a shorter guy. At least this one was actually taller than me...
• One girl I met for a first date (5'5"/166cm) kept saying that she was taller than me, even though we were both wearing flat shoes and I was definitely taller than her. I still managed to hook up with her, but she was one of those girls who like to list off the heights of her ex's and compare me to them. She even had the gall to claim that a 5'10"/178cm guy was tall. Okay...
• This one isn't directly related to height, but I took one girl (5'4"/163cm) on an ice skating date and she didn't want to hold hands because "my arms were too short" and she felt like she was going to crash into me. My arms might be short, but they're still longer than hers... I was so mad that I actually left without giving her a ride home
• One female friend (5'7"/170cm) who openly had a crush on me (not mutual) eventually settled down with a tall guy and one time she was drunk and told me that my only weakness was that I was short and the reason she married a tall guy was so she had something to feel superior about (ugh)
• One girl (5'5"/165cm) I hooked up with had an ex on the periphery of our circle of friends. This guy was barely 5'10" and much worse than me in every other aspect, but when we were randomly talking about other stuff out of nowhere she randomly pointed out that he was taller than me.
• One ex-gf I literally hadn't talked to in years randomly messaged me to say hi. She told me that she got a new puppy and also casually mentioned that her current boyfriend is 6'3"/190cm.
• One of my other ex-gfs (5'3"/160cm) had a close friend (while we were dating) who was dating multiple guys at once. This girl was obsessed with height and literally ranked the guys she was dating by their height and income to make her final decision on which one to keep. She frequently told my ex-gf to dump me because I was too short.
• One girl (5'4"/162cm) I dated for about three months seemed perfectly normal and never mentioned my height even once. I thought she was one of the good ones, but after we broke up I started dating her friend and she started talking sh*t about me to her friend including telling her that I had "inferior genetics" because I was so short. She also sent me a ton of crap about her friend to try and break us up

I could probably keep going for a while if I spent more time down walking down memory lane. Honestly some of these girls I don't even remember anything about aside from when they gave me crap about my height. Don't even get me started with online interactions and height... I'm sure many of you here have had similar experiences, but if you have had as many of these negative experiences as I have, then you would want to get CLL as well. All of these girls are attractive and have decent personalities, and 95% of my interactions with them were positive. However, the second that the topic of height comes up, all of them instantly become brutal and condescending. It's such BS that it's completely normal for girls of any height to disrespect short guys and we're expected to just take it because "hey, I'm just stating a fact. You're short!" Maybe these girls can sense that I have height dysphoria and use it against me. Regardless, my height dysphoria in the context of dating gets triggered so much that I did CLL just so I can reduce the number of times I have to deal with this kind of heightism. I really hope at 177cm it will drop down to zero; then I'll never have to think about height again. I feel like even the girls who claim they don't "care about height" constantly bring it up and use it to make me feel bad, which is why I think getting CLL is so important for dating while simultaneously believing that it's super easy to get girls (at least as a fake 5'8".)

So yeah, hopefully some of you can see how my experiences drove me to get CLL for the purposes of dating. Maybe I have bad luck or I'm just good at attracting female a*sholes, but truly I believe getting CLL should help a ton with reducing the negative experiences I have dating as a short guy. I hope some of you can share what drove you to get CLL outside the context of dating because I really can't picture it on my own. If I had found a woman worth marrying and settled down before last year, I would never ever have done CLL.

[Jamesy998]

I think we have all gone through vastly different experiences in life, which shapes our perspectives on things. Personally, I don't have enough height dysphoria outside the context of dating to feel like it's worth getting CLL to address. Some of you may have though, and I'm very curious what experiences led you to feeling like you need to get CLL. Maybe I'm missing something or overlooked something.

In terms of my career I don't think my height has been a hindrance. It definitely has not been an issue in the context of making friends. Honestly, outside of dating the worst trigger for my height dysphoria is when I get my car back from the valet and they moved the driver's seat way back. This isn't something I would ever consider getting CLL for though. I thought that my thighs were short and stubby before I got CLL, but that's definitely not something I would have gotten CLL to fix. In social settings, among groups of guys I've never been treated worse for being short. I do feel a little height dysphoria if many of the guys in the group are tall, but that's because I feel some resentment due to my belief that they have an easier time with women given their height. Realistically it's most likely not true, but that's what triggers my height dysphoria.

In the context of dating though, my experience has been completely different. I didn't even know that being short was a bad thing until my first serious girlfriend dumped me for a tall guy and by then I was out of college already. I somehow managed to spend all of my youth not having any height dysphoria. However, once I started having height dysphoria, I noticed it in all of my interactions with women. I've hooked up with 100+ women and therefore have collected a lot of data regarding how someone of my height is treated in the dating world. Note that I tell women I'm 5'8"/172cm and wear lifts when going out so I can usually "pass" as 5'8"/172cm. Here are some of the examples of my height-related experiences interacting with women as a short guy.

• Pretty much every girl I've dated who has had a taller ex (all of them) has compared their ex's height with mine and then called me short.
• One girl I dated who was 5'2"/158cm told me that none of her ex's were under 5'11"/180cm and that she was willing to date a short guy like me because she was getting older and ready to settle down (she was 27.) She also claimed she was taller than me every time she wore heels even though she was clearly not! She also said she didn't think any girls taller than her would be willing to date me because anyone taller than her would make me look short and girls don't like having short boyfriends.
• One girl I hooked up with who was only 5'1"/155cm randomly mentioned that her ex was 6'5"/195cm and played basketball in college while we were making out (wtf?) I'm sure she was just sh*t-testing me but when I asked her why she would point this out, and she said it was so I didn't feel like I was special. She was extremely hot, otherwise I would not have put up with her. She ghosted me two weeks after that anyway and I'm pretty sure the only reason we had a fling was because she wanted to try a muscular guy (I was in really good shape then.)
• One ex-gf who was 5'4"/162cm gave me so much crap for being short. Every time she wore heels or even stood on her tippy toes, she would point out that she was taller than me and laugh at me when I tried to deny it. She would also constantly joke about having to "crouch down" when we took pictures together so it wouldn't look like she was dating a short guy. She also frequently mentioned how every single one of her ex's were taller than me.
• Multiple girls have said something along the lines that they "did me a favor" after we hooked up because I am so short.
• One girl I hooked up with (5'8"/173cm) said that she didn't mind short guys because she was "generous". Wtf does that even mean? Guess it's just another girl pointing out that I'm short!
• One girl (5'5"/165cm) told me she was down to hookup whenever, but refused to ever be seen in public with me because I was too short. Like she literally would not even let me walk her down to my condo lobby in the morning. I was taller than her too...
• After we hooked up, I was walking my dog with one girl (5'9"/175cm) but when she saw someone approaching down the sidewalk she took a few steps away from me. She told me she didn't want people to think that she was with a shorter guy. At least this one was actually taller than me...
• One girl I met for a first date (5'5"/166cm) kept saying that she was taller than me, even though we were both wearing flat shoes and I was definitely taller than her. I still managed to hook up with her, but she was one of those girls who like to list off the heights of her ex's and compare me to them. She even had the gall to claim that a 5'10"/178cm guy was tall. Okay...
• This one isn't directly related to height, but I took one girl (5'4"/163cm) on an ice skating date and she didn't want to hold hands because "my arms were too short" and she felt like she was going to crash into me. My arms might be short, but they're still longer than hers... I was so mad that I actually left without giving her a ride home
• One female friend (5'7"/170cm) who openly had a crush on me (not mutual) eventually settled down with a tall guy and one time she was drunk and told me that my only weakness was that I was short and the reason she married a tall guy was so she had something to feel superior about (ugh)
• One girl (5'5"/165cm) I hooked up with had an ex on the periphery of our circle of friends. This guy was barely 5'10" and much worse than me in every other aspect, but when we were randomly talking about other stuff out of nowhere she randomly pointed out that he was taller than me.
• One ex-gf I literally hadn't talked to in years randomly messaged me to say hi. She told me that she got a new puppy and also casually mentioned that her current boyfriend is 6'3"/190cm.
• One of my other ex-gfs (5'3"/160cm) had a close friend (while we were dating) who was dating multiple guys at once. This girl was obsessed with height and literally ranked the guys she was dating by their height and income to make her final decision on which one to keep. She frequently told my ex-gf to dump me because I was too short.
• One girl (5'4"/162cm) I dated for about three months seemed perfectly normal and never mentioned my height even once. I thought she was one of the good ones, but after we broke up I started dating her friend and she started talking sh*t about me to her friend including telling her that I had "inferior genetics" because I was so short. She also sent me a ton of crap about her friend to try and break us up

I could probably keep going for a while if I spent more time down walking down memory lane. Honestly some of these girls I don't even remember anything about aside from when they gave me crap about my height. Don't even get me started with online interactions and height... I'm sure many of you here have had similar experiences, but if you have had as many of these negative experiences as I have, then you would want to get CLL as well. All of these girls are attractive and have decent personalities, and 95% of my interactions with them were positive. However, the second that the topic of height comes up, all of them instantly become brutal and condescending. It's such BS that it's completely normal for girls of any height to disrespect short guys and we're expected to just take it because "hey, I'm just stating a fact. You're short!" Maybe these girls can sense that I have height dysphoria and use it against me. Regardless, my height dysphoria in the context of dating gets triggered so much that I did CLL just so I can reduce the number of times I have to deal with this kind of heightism. I really hope at 177cm it will drop down to zero; then I'll never have to think about height again. I feel like even the girls who claim they don't "care about height" constantly bring it up and use it to make me feel bad, which is why I think getting CLL is so important for dating while simultaneously believing that it's super easy to get girls (at least as a fake 5'8".)

So yeah, hopefully some of you can see how my experiences drove me to get CLL for the purposes of dating. Maybe I have bad luck or I'm just good at attracting female a*sholes, but truly I believe getting CLL should help a ton with reducing the negative experiences I have dating as a short guy. I hope some of you can share what drove you to get CLL outside the context of dating because I really can't picture it on my own. If I had found a woman worth marrying and settled down before last year, I would never ever have done CLL.

Never heard of such incidents in Europe especially while in a relationship. Over here girls can often reject a guy for the height but they wont down right insult them and say it to their face, they will politely decline. You should have told that girl your ex had a nicer rack or something and observed the reaction haha.

[L8GrowthSpurt]

I think we have all gone through vastly different experiences in life, which shapes our perspectives on things. Personally, I don't have enough height dysphoria outside the context of dating to feel like it's worth getting CLL to address. Some of you may have though, and I'm very curious what experiences led you to feeling like you need to get CLL. Maybe I'm missing something or overlooked something.

In terms of my career I don't think my height has been a hindrance. It definitely has not been an issue in the context of making friends. Honestly, outside of dating the worst trigger for my height dysphoria is when I get my car back from the valet and they moved the driver's seat way back. This isn't something I would ever consider getting CLL for though. I thought that my thighs were short and stubby before I got CLL, but that's definitely not something I would have gotten CLL to fix. In social settings, among groups of guys I've never been treated worse for being short. I do feel a little height dysphoria if many of the guys in the group are tall, but that's because I feel some resentment due to my belief that they have an easier time with women given their height. Realistically it's most likely not true, but that's what triggers my height dysphoria.

In the context of dating though, my experience has been completely different. I didn't even know that being short was a bad thing until my first serious girlfriend dumped me for a tall guy and by then I was out of college already. I somehow managed to spend all of my youth not having any height dysphoria. However, once I started having height dysphoria, I noticed it in all of my interactions with women. I've hooked up with 100+ women and therefore have collected a lot of data regarding how someone of my height is treated in the dating world. Note that I tell women I'm 5'8"/172cm and wear lifts when going out so I can usually "pass" as 5'8"/172cm. Here are some of the examples of my height-related experiences interacting with women as a short guy.

• Pretty much every girl I've dated who has had a taller ex (all of them) has compared their ex's height with mine and then called me short.
• One girl I dated who was 5'2"/158cm told me that none of her ex's were under 5'11"/180cm and that she was willing to date a short guy like me because she was getting older and ready to settle down (she was 27.) She also claimed she was taller than me every time she wore heels even though she was clearly not! She also said she didn't think any girls taller than her would be willing to date me because anyone taller than her would make me look short and girls don't like having short boyfriends.
• One girl I hooked up with who was only 5'1"/155cm randomly mentioned that her ex was 6'5"/195cm and played basketball in college while we were making out (wtf?) I'm sure she was just sh*t-testing me but when I asked her why she would point this out, and she said it was so I didn't feel like I was special. She was extremely hot, otherwise I would not have put up with her. She ghosted me two weeks after that anyway and I'm pretty sure the only reason we had a fling was because she wanted to try a muscular guy (I was in really good shape then.)
• One ex-gf who was 5'4"/162cm gave me so much crap for being short. Every time she wore heels or even stood on her tippy toes, she would point out that she was taller than me and laugh at me when I tried to deny it. She would also constantly joke about having to "crouch down" when we took pictures together so it wouldn't look like she was dating a short guy. She also frequently mentioned how every single one of her ex's were taller than me.
• Multiple girls have said something along the lines that they "did me a favor" after we hooked up because I am so short.
• One girl I hooked up with (5'8"/173cm) said that she didn't mind short guys because she was "generous". Wtf does that even mean? Guess it's just another girl pointing out that I'm short!
• One girl (5'5"/165cm) told me she was down to hookup whenever, but refused to ever be seen in public with me because I was too short. Like she literally would not even let me walk her down to my condo lobby in the morning. I was taller than her too...
• After we hooked up, I was walking my dog with one girl (5'9"/175cm) but when she saw someone approaching down the sidewalk she took a few steps away from me. She told me she didn't want people to think that she was with a shorter guy. At least this one was actually taller than me...
• One girl I met for a first date (5'5"/166cm) kept saying that she was taller than me, even though we were both wearing flat shoes and I was definitely taller than her. I still managed to hook up with her, but she was one of those girls who like to list off the heights of her ex's and compare me to them. She even had the gall to claim that a 5'10"/178cm guy was tall. Okay...
• This one isn't directly related to height, but I took one girl (5'4"/163cm) on an ice skating date and she didn't want to hold hands because "my arms were too short" and she felt like she was going to crash into me. My arms might be short, but they're still longer than hers... I was so mad that I actually left without giving her a ride home
• One female friend (5'7"/170cm) who openly had a crush on me (not mutual) eventually settled down with a tall guy and one time she was drunk and told me that my only weakness was that I was short and the reason she married a tall guy was so she had something to feel superior about (ugh)
• One girl (5'5"/165cm) I hooked up with had an ex on the periphery of our circle of friends. This guy was barely 5'10" and much worse than me in every other aspect, but when we were randomly talking about other stuff out of nowhere she randomly pointed out that he was taller than me.
• One ex-gf I literally hadn't talked to in years randomly messaged me to say hi. She told me that she got a new puppy and also casually mentioned that her current boyfriend is 6'3"/190cm.
• One of my other ex-gfs (5'3"/160cm) had a close friend (while we were dating) who was dating multiple guys at once. This girl was obsessed with height and literally ranked the guys she was dating by their height and income to make her final decision on which one to keep. She frequently told my ex-gf to dump me because I was too short.
• One girl (5'4"/162cm) I dated for about three months seemed perfectly normal and never mentioned my height even once. I thought she was one of the good ones, but after we broke up I started dating her friend and she started talking sh*t about me to her friend including telling her that I had "inferior genetics" because I was so short. She also sent me a ton of crap about her friend to try and break us up

I could probably keep going for a while if I spent more time down walking down memory lane. Honestly some of these girls I don't even remember anything about aside from when they gave me crap about my height. Don't even get me started with online interactions and height... I'm sure many of you here have had similar experiences, but if you have had as many of these negative experiences as I have, then you would want to get CLL as well. All of these girls are attractive and have decent personalities, and 95% of my interactions with them were positive. However, the second that the topic of height comes up, all of them instantly become brutal and condescending. It's such BS that it's completely normal for girls of any height to disrespect short guys and we're expected to just take it because "hey, I'm just stating a fact. You're short!" Maybe these girls can sense that I have height dysphoria and use it against me. Regardless, my height dysphoria in the context of dating gets triggered so much that I did CLL just so I can reduce the number of times I have to deal with this kind of heightism. I really hope at 177cm it will drop down to zero; then I'll never have to think about height again. I feel like even the girls who claim they don't "care about height" constantly bring it up and use it to make me feel bad, which is why I think getting CLL is so important for dating while simultaneously believing that it's super easy to get girls (at least as a fake 5'8".)

So yeah, hopefully some of you can see how my experiences drove me to get CLL for the purposes of dating. Maybe I have bad luck or I'm just good at attracting female a*sholes, but truly I believe getting CLL should help a ton with reducing the negative experiences I have dating as a short guy. I hope some of you can share what drove you to get CLL outside the context of dating because I really can't picture it on my own. If I had found a woman worth marrying and settled down before last year, I would never ever have done CLL.

Damn! You definitely seem to have run into a bevy of shallow, caddy b*itches it would seem.  I totally agree that we are all, as they say, prisoners of our own experiences and I totally respect that and accept that everyone who does CLL has reasons that are significant enough for them and that aren’t the same reasons that I would want to undergo CLL.  Anyways, I found your post to be very thought provoking and informative.  At the end of the day, I think everyone who goes through the CLL journey (and I am not in that category - yet), does it, and should do it, for their own reasons and not for anyone else.  I myself have been very lucky - on most fronts.  I have a spouse who I have been married to for a long time; I have 2 wonderful children, a fantastic job, most everything I want, but still want to undertake the CLL journey for my own reasons.  At its essence, perhaps some could just chalk it up to greed and I suppose I could see that misperception.  After all, I am 5’7” (171.5 cm morning height) and that is comparatively lucky in the height department as opposed to others.  Yet, I still want to go through with CLL - but just for myself and to take it to the next level on all other fronts.  Could I live without it and have a very fine life?  Absolutely.  But, could I do it and find that my new height (179 cm hopefully) eliminates my height dysphoria altogether - forever - and I never have to measure myself both figuratively and literally every day for the rest of my life?  Absolutely!  So, maybe everyone has different experiences and thinks of primary motivators that are different, but at some level the primary motivator and take away perspective seems to be similar if not the same:  self improvement and making the impossible now possible.  Thanks for the thought provoking posts. 

[Body Builder]

Hey bodybuilder, I'm around your height pre-lengthening (170cm). Did adding 8cm change your life drastically?

I added 7.5cm (from 1.685 to 1.76, both morning heights).
Yes dude, it changed a lot to how I perceive myself but also how others look at me.
Eventhough I am still about 1cm less than my country's average height for men, everyone see me as the big guy. I also present myself like that, as a macho man who fears almost nothing and who is not willing to tolerate anyones bs in any part of my life.
And believe it or not, I really am that kind of person now.

I've been through a lot to get that height, I also lived about 4 years with major kinetic problems (although not visible as my walking was normal but slower than normal) after my butchered atl surgery and after I fixed it and truly enjoyed my new height, I am really someone different as I have really tried very hard to reach that height, I try very hard everyday to have 46+cm arms amd a muscular body naturally, I try very hard to have a good style and grooming and generally speaking, I tried very hard to reach my maximum potential in terms of appearance and I am very proud of it.
That made me to respect myself a lot and feel ok with me and thats why I have courage in my life and I am not afraid anyone nor I compromise with things I don't like.
I would have never felt that way before LL, not only due to my initial height but because I wouldn't have been through all these which made me much stronger.

Thats why I am saying that LL is so lifechanging. 6-7cm will make a good difference about how others see you but the differerence in your inner self after all these is even bigger and that is even more important than these cms and other people can feel that change too.

[ActionSpeaks]

Hi, came to to this post to see if Precice required a wheelchair at least for the first few months plus travel. Lots of thoughts, observations and various experiences written here but a little off-topic. So it seems that Precice does require a wheelchair for at least the first few months if you are over 150ibs weight, but you can use walker/crutches if under this weight but only by with some sort of hopping technique? Is that correct?