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[Calic]

I have another inquiry though. While at the guesthouse how do you go about taking a shower? Especially right after surgery with all the restricted mobility and weight bearing? Do you have to sit down? Can the frames get wet? My bad if this is a stupid or obvious question. I've just never seen anything in the diaries about the adventures of showering while leg lengthening. lol

Bring a chair into the shower area and sit on it with your legs on another chair going out of the shower and cover your legs with a towel. Then just wash your upper body and then request the caretakers later to wash your legs, feet, or hair.

Right after surgery it hurts quite a bit to move so you probably won't be motivated to take a shower for a week or two.

Not sure if it is good or bad to have the frames get wet. Everything that I read on old forum  said not to as it can increase the risk of infection. I don't think anybody who showered at the guest house let their frames get wet.

One thing I wish I had were no rinse bath wipes to use instead of taking showers.

A diary would be cool since I do not think there is any diary about leg shortening. I am interested in the process of it.

How much have you decided to shorten by? I assume the desired length of bone is removed all at once and then you bring all the bones together again? How does the soft tissue handle being compacted together, are there any potential issues with that? What is the rate of compression?

[Calic]

I'm glad that you are overcoming the superficial stigma that got us all obsess over this LL in the first place. Beside attracting girls, I don't see much advantage to being physically tall in this day and age. I think it's all about confident. I think being short really affects your psycho and that's it. And it's this psychology that cost us 4-6 months of our lives, lots of pain and suffering, 23k (including air ticket and other travel expense) and our health to go all the way to India for LL.

Having said all this, I'm going through with my femur LL plan within 10 months. I'm happy to hear that you are recovering well and don't think about your height anymore... this is especially important since your legs are already really long. Keep us posted on your recovery!!

I agree that attractiveness towards girls is probably the area in life where height is most important and below a certain height you will face significant problems. Beyond that I think it is hard to judge how much our height actually effects our lives. It is only one piece of the puzzle and by itself it does not really do much for you.

On paper LL looked like a good decision for me after reading through all of the diaries and looking at all the studies that show below average height people being at a disadvantage but now that I am back home I am thinking to myself, okay what now? I feel like I just took a 6 month vacation and came home exactly how I left.

I think the main thing that bothered me was the idea that something out of my direct control could have a negative impact on my life and there was nothing besides LL that could change that. I am glad that I had LL done and when I am older I can look back on my life and be rest assured my height has not hindered me in any negative way.

Another minor reason I wanted LL was that a part of me wanted to endure the experience and challenge of it. I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of my time in India having my LL and would do it all over again if I had the chance.

Having said all this, I'm going through with my femur LL plan within 10 months. I'm happy to hear that you are recovering well and don't think about your height anymore... this is especially important since your legs are already really long. Keep us posted on your recovery!!

A part of me is still thinking of doing a second LL but I am thinking less and less about it since I know my proportions probably cannot handle it. Once I am fully recovered I will do another set of mockups and try walking around in some elevator shoes to simulate a 4 cm gain and then put closure to the idea.

[olivetree]

Bring a chair into the shower area and sit on it with your legs on another chair going out of the shower and cover your legs with a towel. Then just wash your upper body and then request the caretakers later to wash your legs, feet, or hair.

Right after surgery it hurts quite a bit to move so you probably won't be motivated to take a shower for a week or two.

Not sure if it is good or bad to have the frames get wet. Everything that I read on old forum  said not to as it can increase the risk of infection. I don't think anybody who showered at the guest house let their frames get wet.

One thing I wish I had were no rinse bath wipes to use instead of taking showers.

A diary would be cool since I do not think there is any diary about leg shortening. I am interested in the process of it.

How much have you decided to shorten by? I assume the desired length of bone is removed all at once and then you bring all the bones together again? How does the soft tissue handle being compacted together, are there any potential issues with that? What is the rate of compression?

I'm a very clean person so idk if pain would get in my way of showering haha. I actually don't even think I will have frames. What would be the point? Yes the bone is cut and then joined, either by a metal plate and screws to hold it in place or a nail inside the bone, which would be removed after a year or so. I'm not sure what technique Sarin uses(I assume rod). I didn't ask because I would prefer to discuss everything in detail with him at the consultation rather than email. I am thinking if it sounds too scary I make a final decision in India whether or not to proceed. (Fat chance I won't though  ) Physio of course is required after wards, knee bending issues could also occur.
As with your question about the soft tissue compacting, I read there is a risk of something called compartment syndrome, where the muscles in your legs develop too much pressure from a lack of blood supply and can damage the nerves and muscles. Apparently this is extremely painful and can be super serious if not treated. So there's something to think about. However my target is pretty slight (3, maybe 3.5 cm decrease) so I assume my leggys won't freak out on me too much. Sarin told me he decreased a guy -yes, a guyyy- by 7.5cm last August. Wonder how that dudes doing now…I've tried emailing but nada.

[Calic]

I actually don't even think I will have frames. What would be the point? Yes the bone is cut and then joined, either by a metal plate and screws to hold it in place or a nail inside the bone, which would be removed after a year or so. I'm not sure what technique Sarin uses(I assume rod).

Sarin told me he decreased a guy -yes, a guyyy- by 7.5cm last August. Wonder how that dudes doing now…I've tried emailing but nada.

So once the bone is cut out and removed you can bring the leg together all at once and then lock it in place with a nail?

Cool, so it is true that that guy went through with it. I believe he was the brother of the other girl on old forum  that was 6'3" and wanted shortening. It sucks he did not stay at the guest house, I would have liked to see and talk to him.

[BilateralDamage]

Actually, most short guys I know don't really care about their height. If you don't care about attracting girls, being short has its own advantage. When I watch a fight, I always root for the smaller guy. Being short is powerful in its own way because you are being seen as as underdog. And people always root for the underdog.

You nailed it on the head for me.  One of the weights pulling me down from getting LL is the idea that I won't be short anymore.  Instead I'll be average.  I've gone through my whole life as a short male in every age group, and for the most part, I've owned it as a part of me.  People underestimate me and I love that feeling.  I never want to be viewed as every other average male in my country.

Don't get me wrong, being average is a million times better in other aspects, but I'll miss the uniqueness I'm going to be losing with this surgery.

[Smallguy]

You nailed it on the head for me.  One of the weights pulling me down from getting LL is the idea that I won't be short anymore.  Instead I'll be average.  I've gone through my whole life as a short male in every age group, and for the most part, I've owned it as a part of me.  People underestimate me and I love that feeling.  I never want to be viewed as every other average male in my country.

Don't get me wrong, being average is a million times better in other aspects, but I'll miss the uniqueness I'm going to be losing with this surgery.

Yeah, you will lose this uniqueness. Don't forget to take lots of photo now. Then you can compare them with yourself after LL. It will be a priceless memory.

It's human nature. People normally want what they can't have. We go through our lives being short, face discrimination and pain that a short man faces. That's why we want to be tall for once. But tall people also have their own qualm. That's why it's not unusual to see people at the guesthouse who wants to becomes short... lol

[olivetree]

So once the bone is cut out and removed you can bring the leg together all at once and then lock it in place with a nail?

Cool, so it is true that that guy went through with it. I believe he was the brother of the other girl on old forum  that was 6'3" and wanted shortening. It sucks he did not stay at the guest house, I would have liked to see and talk to him.

Yes, like any other discrepancy or severely broken bone.

Oh yeah that would make sense. Gosh that's tall.. I wish I was around when they were active on old forum . It'd be nice to talk with someone feeling the same way I do.

[Sweden]

Yes, like any other discrepancy or severely broken bone.

Oh yeah that would make sense. Gosh that's tall.. I wish I was around when they were active on old forum . It'd be nice to talk with someone feeling the same way I do.

It was absolutely nothing wrong with their height, just like yours.

The were totally messed up in their head, .........................

[olivetree]

It was absolutely nothing wrong with their height, just like yours.

The were totally messed up in their head, .........................

And before you had LL there was nothing wrong with your height either…there is no difference. I've read about guys that were 6 foot already and getting LL, but I didn't call that messed up. 

[ChrisIsaak]

Olivetree,

May I ask where you're from? I was wondering if 5'6 could be considered tall for a female where you live in. (My girlfriend is 5'10 and she's not really happy with it either). I think your height is just perfect, but it's just my personal opinion. What matters is how you feel about it.

@Calic: Sorry to discuss other stuff in your diary mate. Cheers.

[Sweden]

And before you had LL there was nothing wrong with your height either…there is no difference. I've read about guys that were 6 foot already and getting LL, but I didn't call that messed up.

173cm is considered short in Sweden.
5'6 is not tall for a girl anywhere in the world.

[BilateralDamage]

173cm is considered short in Sweden.
5'6 is not tall for a girl anywhere in the world.

She's not calling herself tall.  She just wants to be shorter, and there's nothing wrong with wanting that.

I don't know what her reasons are, but I know if I was interested in a girl's personality, but she were 5' 6", that would be a deal breaker (since she's taller than me) and I wouldn't consider dating her.  For girls, it seems the inverse of guys- the shorter you are, the larger your dating pool (up to a certain point).  My current girlfriend is 4 inches shorter than me, which is just the way I like it.

[ChrisIsaak]

Edit. (Sent twice).

[olivetree]

Olivetree,
May I ask where you're from?

Seattle. So US average is 5'4". But currently I live in short Japan I know I'm not far from US average but my figure is slim with long legs, so I create the illusion to others of looking way taller than I am. And no it hasn't been fun.
Sweden the world doesn't revolve around just the plight of "short" guys. We all have issues. I dated a guy who was 5'7'' and instead of thinking he was too short for me, I thought I was too tall for him..

Edit: BilateralDamage, I totes understand what you mean about losing that uniqueness.
I'm gonna shut up now:) Calic, back to you.

[Smallguy]

Seattle. So US average is 5'4". But currently I live in short Japan I know I'm not far from US average but my figure is slim with long legs, so I create the illusion to others of looking way taller than I am. And no it hasn't been fun.
Sweden the world doesn't revolve around just the plight of "short" guys. We all have issues. I dated a guy who was 5'7'' and instead of thinking he was too short for me, I thought I was too tall for him..

Edit: BilateralDamage, I totes understand what you mean about losing that uniqueness.
I'm gonna shut up now:) Calic, back to you.

Even Japanese nowadays desire taller height. I'm unsure where you got the idea that smaller is better. 5'6 is not that tall. Most men don't say it (especially the short or insecure guys), even Japanese men, desire tall women. Watch any girl band, rising actress, or pornstar or Japanese porno movies (opps).

We don't know you enough to make a judgement on your decision. Wish I know. Maybe you have experience something in your life that none of us have. But whatever decision you make, the procedure will be irreversible. Keep us posted!

[alps]

But whatever decision you make, the procedure will be irreversible.

Well, there is LL. 

[Smallguy]

Hey Calic,

Sorry I spammed your diary with a bunch of irrelevant posts. How is your recovery coming along?

[Calic]

Hey Calic,

Sorry I spammed your diary with a bunch of irrelevant posts. How is your recovery coming along?

All good.

I told my best friend about my LL and he said he noticed the height but didn't say anything about it and just assumed I had a growth spurt. He had no idea LL was possible. His height is exactly 5'10" so I am now just slightly taller than him now. I compared my proportions to him - his sitting height appeared to be about 1.5 inches more than me and my tibias were obviously way longer than his. Surprisingly my arms and hands were the exact same length and width as his. He has commented in the past that he has short arms but it was still cool to know my arms are still within the normal range of proportion. It sucks I have the arm length but not the torso length to do a 2nd LL

I also told his parents and 2 sisters about my LL. One sister just commented she thought the LL scene in Gattaca was science fiction. The other one who is in a medically related field found it more interesting. The parents were just confounded and didn't seem to understand why I would want to do something like LL.

Knee pain and other pain
I can walk or stand on my knees with no pain. I have slight pain when jogging. Sitting on my knees is painful enough to be uncomfortable. When trying to run or when walking downstairs quickly I feel a good amount of pain around the locking screws. This worries me a bit since I am not sure it will get any better since my bone should be fully healed and be taking the force of impact now. Everything else feels solid. I sometimes have some random pain in the foot or ankle but it goes away quickly.

I was thinking of just leaving the rods in for life but if I cannot run without pain in the locking screws I might have them removed.

Cold weather
I've walked outside in gym shorts at close to 0° F temperatures for 5 to 10 minutes and I feel no difference in my legs despite the rods being inside. I have been outside for longer periods of time with jeans on and never felt any difference.

Height decrease
I have seen a lot of talk about people losing height from LL and Sweden's situation seems quite bizarre - not sure what to think of this. My height has stayed at 5'10"+ for most of the day. This has me a little bit worried since my final height was higher than expected but I will measure it several months from now and see if there is any difference.

[Smallguy]

Hey Calic,

It must be quite a great feeling when you finally stand taller than your friend after all the difficulties you have been through. Your LL journey was perfect and you have achieved what others would have paid $100k for (plus wailing). You should be proud of yourself. I met you in person and thought you were a great guy... and a true warrior. You truly deserve this achievement.

Height decrease - don't worry about this. Couldn't happen.

Slight pain - have you tried taking inflammatory supplements like omega 3 or curcumin? I heard they help with arthritis. I eat a lot of sushi here for lunch. Maybe that seems to help me with feeling no pain. However, I do feel slight discomfort sometime like waking up in the morning with a stiff calf muscle. However I can quickly walk into the bathtub and take a shower.  And sitting on my knee makes me feel pain... but how often do we require to sit on our knees? So I wouldn't consider these as pain.

How is your dating life? Have girls now find you more attractive?

PS. I will be making a video tomorrow... maybe just to demonstrate how my own recovery has been thus far after 6 months of going to the gym. It was meant to be created for a few ppl who I met in India like yourself and a 1-2 other ppl on this forum. Be sure to watch it

[Calic]

It is an interesting change of perspective. In a way I kind of feel superior to others who are shorter than me now. Unfortunately, a part of me still wants more height but I am thinking less and less of the idea now.

I haven't taken anything for the pain yet as it doesn't bother me enough.

I haven't done any dating since I got back and I am still trying to find a job. I haven't been out much either. I know the added height will help though

I liked the video. It looks like you will be able to make a full recovery. How is the pain when jogging or trying to run?

[krin0610]

Great to hear from you Mr "Perfect Recovery"!!!

[Smallguy]

It is an interesting change of perspective. In a way I kind of feel superior to others who are shorter than me now. Unfortunately, a part of me still wants more height but I am thinking less and less of the idea now.

I haven't taken anything for the pain yet as it doesn't bother me enough.

I haven't done any dating since I got back and I am still trying to find a job. I haven't been out much either. I know the added height will help though

I liked the video. It looks like you will be able to make a full recovery. How is the pain when jogging or trying to run?

I'm pretty sure things will work out for you (eg. jobs, dates, etc). You have a long road ahead of you.

I guess this LL is like buying a car. If you're happy with what you have, then it's all that matters. If you want more, have you thought about building your upper and lower body? I watched your video and that was only because you just finished the surgery. Everyone looks like a stick.

I haven't feel any pain. The last time I felt pain was in May.

Great to hear from you Mr "Perfect Recovery"!!!

His LL journey was perfect. He's still recovering now. lol

[Taller]

Great to hear from you again, Calic! It's great to follow your recovery. Has anyone ever made any comments about your new proportions or have people only noticed your new height? In my opinion you look completely proportional.

[Calic]

I guess this LL is like buying a car. If you're happy with what you have, then it's all that matters. If you want more, have you thought about building your upper and lower body? I watched your video and that was only because you just finished the surgery. Everyone looks like a stick.

I really want another LL to be 6' but I also want to look good. I am definitely going to build some muscle and see if that makes me look any better. I am going to wait another year before I take another look at myself and decide if I can handle another LL.

Great to hear from you again, Calic! It's great to follow your recovery. Has anyone ever made any comments about your new proportions or have people only noticed your new height? In my opinion you look completely proportional.

Only my height, nobody has made any comment or questioned my proportions when I have told them about my LL. It is interesting since when I discovered LL proportions was one of the first things I thought about.

I have asked various people about my proportions. One friend said he thought I would look out of proportion with another LL and my Mom thought I might look like I am walking on stilts. Everyone says I look good right now and nobody thinks my tibias look long.

I definitely believe anyone can do a single LL for 2 or 3 inches and look good but doing a 2nd LL for another 2 or 3 inches I do not think everyone can do. Do you think I would still look good with another 1.5 inches added to my femurs?

[Taller]

Hi Calic. Personally, I think you could easily handle ~4CM on your femurs but definitely not any more than 5CM. There are a lot of men with femurs longer than their torsos naturally. These tend to be black men, but I've seen quite a few white men who are naturally this way too. These people don't look weird because their build is a naturally occurring body type. Look at my post in the thread "short torso and long legs" to see what I mean. You could easily pull off 4CM more because your arms are so long. I wish I had arms like yours to start out with (I'm your proportions opposite, short arms and 96cm sitting height). If you didn't have those long arms, you'd look like you were walking on stilts, but your arms make everything come together nicely, and make you look like a naturally long-legged person. I think your LL actually made you look younger (and, of course, taller), because it have you a slimmer profile, since you haven't gotten any wider.

I am biased, after having looked at so many proportions threads, but I think that, currently, your tibias do look just a little too long. I don't think anyone would casually notice, especially while you're wearing pants, but I do think that just a tad more length on the femurs may make your legs look a bit more natural. I don't think that 4 CM on the femur will affect the way your upper body is perceived, but please don't do more than 5CM, jut because, at that point, your hands won't be close enough to your knees to appear natural. But, you could also stay the way you are currently and go through the rest of your life without worrying about being short or having to do another LL. Some people, like Ryan Gossing, have long tibias naturally. These people are rare, but they do exist.

Are you sure you did 6.5CM on your tibs, or is it possible that you may have done a bit more? How did Dr. Sarin measure your final distance? I've often heard that measuring based on X-rays alone is unreliable because it's hard to tell where the bone gaps begin and end.

Anyways, I hope that helps you in some way,
Tall

[Calic]

I think your LL actually made you look younger (and, of course, taller), because it have you a slimmer profile, since you haven't gotten any wider.

I was hoping LL would make me look older like an adult   I think I might ask my parents if they think I look older. My face has a young look to it so that probably doesn't help either.

I am biased, after having looked at so many proportions threads, but I think that, currently, your tibias do look just a little too long. I don't think anyone would casually notice, especially while you're wearing pants, but I do think that just a tad more length on the femurs may make your legs look a bit more natural.

I agree they look too long - I see clear disproportion between my femur and tibia. As long as my femurs are covered with shorts it isn’t easy to tell though. A second LL would balance out my lower legs nicely. I am happy though and the sacrifice in proportion to be 5’10” is worth it. I never think about my current proportions.

Are you sure you did 6.5CM on your tibs, or is it possible that you may have done a bit more? How did Dr. Sarin measure your final distance? I've often heard that measuring based on X-rays alone is unreliable because it's hard to tell where the bone gaps begin and end.

No, my final height is well above what it should have been and my tibias were longer than everyone else’s who had a similar starting/final height as me by a big margin like I had done 8 cm.

I recorded on a spreadsheet and was about 7 cm turned on both legs. Dr. Sarin and his assistant measured using a metal scale and the intensifier multiple times. The only thing I can figure is Dr. Sarin lengthened me an additional 5 mm instead of reducing by 5 mm.

[BilateralDamage]

I think if you put more muscle on your legs, you would lose the stilty look and could squeeze in some cm on your femurs.  I think you should do some lifting for your overall physique too.  Is lifting anything heavy out of the question for you right now?

[Taller]

I was hoping LL would make me look older like an adult   I think I might ask my parents if they think I look older. My face has a young look to it so that probably doesn't help either.

Trust me, looking young is a huge blessing in (not so much imo) disguise. In due time you will be very grateful for looking young. In my observations, people who looked like adults at 14 find themselves aging much faster later in life, while those whose appearance "aged" later tend to have youthful energy and vitality for longer, and age far more gracefully. I've seen such people look 50 at age 85.  It's crazy. When you're 40+, 5'10 (or more, maybe), and look 25-35, everyone your age will wish they were you  .

[Calic]

I think if you put more muscle on your legs, you would lose the stilty look and could squeeze in some cm on your femurs.  I think you should do some lifting for your overall physique too.  Is lifting anything heavy out of the question for you right now?

I feel like I might be able to start doing light weight squats like 135 pounds or so. I am going to start seriously working out soon.

Trust me, looking young is a huge blessing in (not so much imo) disguise. In due time you will be very grateful for looking young. In my observations, people who looked like adults at 14 find themselves aging much faster later in life, while those whose appearance "aged" later tend to have youthful energy and vitality for longer, and age far more gracefully. I've seen such people look 50 at age 85.  It's crazy. When you're 40+, 5'10 (or more, maybe), and look 25-35, everyone your age will wish they were you  .

Cool so I will probably still look young when I am old.

[Calic]

Coming home
For many weeks after coming home I had a lot of ankle pain since I was not used to walking as much as people do in normal life. I no longer have any ankle pain now. Sometimes my legs are still stiff in the morning, I think I will have to start doing stretches to improve it. I still sometimes have random aches and pains in parts of the legs or ankle but this has been going away.

Current status
Right now the biggest problem for me are the rods and screws in my legs. Walking is okay but jogging is painful and running is not possible. Right now I still feel like a cripple since there is so much pain with jogging or running. I feel I will never fully recover or be able to run until my rods are removed – it’s awful. I regret going with LON.
 
Regrets
1. I would have gone with external only for these reasons:

• The frames did not bother me much so I would have been okay for keeping them on for another 6 months.
• I was not making much money where I was working so lost income would not have been a big issue and I would have saved several thousand from the initial surgery and rod removal later.
  
• It is less invasive and I would have no scar on the knee.
• I would have been done with LL all at once and not have rods and screws which bother me on a daily basis.
• The frames would have allowed me to work on my ballerina more since I could continue to wear sandals. They were surprisingly effective at preventing and reducing ballerina.

2. I would have opted to not having middle pins put in. The scars I think are more noticeable in the middle of the leg, there is risk of having the muscle fascia torn, and it caused more pain and discomfort than the other pin sites. After many patients had issues with them Dr. Sarin stopped using middle pins on patients while I was there. There were several patients who had their middle pins removed during lengthening.

3. I would have lengthened .66 mm/day after the first few cm. I was doing well with no pain so I kept doing 1 mm but then I had nerve issues and that might have been caused by me. A lot of people had nerve issues and had to have nerve tests done but I was not aware of this until too late and I do not remember reading about it in any of the diaries. I am not sure if it was because a lot of Dr. Sarin patients lengthened faster than normal or some other reason.

4. I would have obtained a medical visa. To my knowledge my tourist visa was not extendable and it would have been better to have the medical one just in case I had to stay longer.

2nd LL surgery
Right after my first LL I wanted a 2nd LL to add 4 cm my femurs to make me about 6’ but now I feel that my proportions definitely cannot handle it. If I had unlimited time and money I would lengthen my femurs just enough to be in proportion with my tibias and maybe have my tibias shortened.

Rod removal
I have a consultation scheduled with an ortho tomorrow about removing my rods. I am worried there might be more going on with my legs that I am not aware of.

These are the things I will have addressed:

• Length of tibias and femurs
• Straightness of legs
• Fibula migration
• Outer hip pain on both sides randomly - Trochanteric Bursitis maybe?
• I see tissue sticking out of my middle pin scar areas and when I move my foot I see movement in the area. It might be muscle fascia damage?
• Something vein like sticking out on my right leg near the middle pin site. This might be muscle fascia damage as well?
• Range of motion I am lacking in my ankle still
• Gait

[Smallguy]

Hey Calic,

Sorry to hear about your complications. It seems that they all occur after your frame removal. You had a smooth ride throughout your stay in India (I heard).

How do you know if removal of the rod would help? Keep us updated and thanks for sharing.

Good-luck with your consultation tomorrow.