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[Devoted1]

First, I want to post an email I wrote to Victor at cyborgforlife after seeing one of his videos: "The stories you told describing all of the measures you took to conceal your true height really struck a chord with me. I have literally done all of the things you listed in the video and have continuously struggled with this height dysphoria my entire life!! I literally won’t go places I can’t take off my shoes for fear of people finding out my true height. Most of my everyday thoughts, and I literally mean everyday, consist of how happy and mainly how comfortable I would be if I was taller. I think about how I wouldn’t be considered less of a man, I think about how I can feel normal standing in public, with friends or even family members. My life is literally revolved around compensating for this issue I have. I’m a current college student and have served in the military. I’ve also had a pretty crazy childhood, so I would say I’ve gained enough perspective from life to understand that there are more important things in life and that my lack of self-confidence can stem from deeper issues than height dysphoria. Out of the kindness of their hearts, loved ones have tried to impart philosophies on me that would help me find value in other things and have given me advice along the lines of: there are plenty of other things that make you great, you need to be okay with yourself first in order to let go of this issue of height dysphoria. I appreciate all of that, but I have examined, learned and am still actively learning myself, and I can still pinpoint this overwhelming feeling of inadequacy to my height. I am a very happy and optimistic person. I am actually relatively confident in the way I look other than my height. I am doing really well in college and am on track to graduate in about 2 more semesters. I have an income that allows me to live beyond comfortably and enables me to focus on school. I have girlfriend with whom I’m deeply in love with. I have security in God. I am a cognitive science major and a psychology minor, so I’m pretty familiar with a lot of processes that explain why it is the way we think. Even still, the one thing that has plagued my thoughts, is my height. This issue is very real to me and is very troublesome. If I weren’t so optimistic about being able to possibly get the surgery one day, I would fall into a deep depression. It sounds a bit ridiculous to rely on surgery to make me happy, but I am not relying on the surgery to fuel my happiness. I am relying on how happy I will be once I feel comfortable being in my own body. I think about how happy I would be being comfortable enough to be my self around others- the places I would go, the things I could finally wear, the experiences I could have without the utter fear of judgement about my height. I apologize for this long story, but I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing your story. It makes it a little easier to know that I’m not alone in this struggle and that there’s someone out there who has experienced some of the turmoil I have. Most would consider this an irrational problem to have, so it’s nice to come across someone who understands. Man the examples about the gym, being at school, going to the beach, blew me away because those are some of the specific examples I have gone through. I humbly await for the day God allows me the opportunity to get this surgery and am actively working to improve my credit so that I can be approved for a loan of this magnitude. Until then, I am eagerly and patiently waiting for it to happen. It will happen, I’m putting that out in the universe right now. You given me new found hope! So thank you again, from the bottom of my heart."

I had no clue there were others like me pursuing LL, and I was just as ecstatic to find this forum! I wanted to post this to give you all a little insight on how passionate I am about this. I am 28 and I have been working on getting funds for the LL for the last 10 years, but something or another has come up in life and I havent been able to save.

I had a consultation with Dr. Mahboubian around the middle of last year. I know he works with care credit. I have looked into multiple doctors since, and have come across some great ones, but the fact remains, I have not been able to build money on my own or get approved for a medical loan to reach the 75,000 price tag.

I have looked into medical loans through lightstream, sofi, and care credit. I actually applied for 75,000 through care credit in june of this year and was declined for lack of credit history (4 years is my longest account), and I had a 632 credit score. I have been working my butt off since and now have a 679 credit score. I have done endless amounts of research on how to save, build credit, and many other things, but at this point I feel like I am about to burst. I cannot wait any longer and deal with being around people while feeling utterly uncomfortable. I have 10,000 saved now and I want to try to apply with care credit again for 60,000 this time. Do any of you have advice for me? Anything is appreciated!

[BelowTheMean]

If you're in college still, wouldn't it be pretty difficult to pay the loan back? Your credit score will naturally go up over time as your credit profile matures. The loan companies also need to consider your income and other assets to see the likelihood of you repaying though.

[Devoted1]

My education is paid for with the GI bill so I don't have any student loans, and they pay me a monthly stipend. I also have decent income since I work for the University I am attending. Do you think I should wait before reapplying with Care Credit?

[BelowTheMean]

That's pretty good, but you still need some form of income to take on a $50K loan. Personally, I would wait a little longer to be more established before doing LL, but I can also see why you would want to do it asap.

[brondo]

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I would probably get this surgery in a few months if I had the money, but right now I don't and I don't know if I ever will. That seems to be the stopping point with a lot of people who desire limb lengthening surgery. I know this doesn't help the urgency that you feel you need to get this surgery right now, but I think limb lengthening needs to become more popular and accepted for the prices to drop. More competing companies need to make nails that match or exceed the quality of the Stryde nail to drive the price down. More doctors are needed to get involved in this field. The surgery needs to become safer. The stigma behind this surgery needs to decline. Right now this is wishful thinking. But I think when some people become more informed of what the surgery is and how people come out of it rejuvenated and more confident (a lot will still think it's crazy), they will be more open minded to people who go through with this procedure. I think what Victor from Cyborg 4Life is doing is a great thing that helps build awareness and knowledge about limb lengthening. We need more of that to build the limb lengthening community and that could in turn help everything to evolve and perhaps drive the costs down. Sorry, I don't have any actual financial advice to give to you. I desperately want to get taller too, but financial debt will also cripple you, and additional complications will bury you if this is something you can't afford. All I can offer you is that maybe things in the industry will change with time and exposure. Limb lengthening, while it has been around for decades, I feel is still in its infancy of this modern cosmetic era. Perhaps better technology and better prices are just around the corner. Maybe it's worth hanging on a couple of years to see what's in store before you go through with this. I wish you the best in whatever you decide to do.

-brondo

[Devoted1]

I do have a sizable income right now, but maybe I should wait a little longer to see if I can boost my credit higher. I appreciate your insight!

[Devoted1]

Brondo, your response is much appreciated! I definitely agree with everything you said in that the price of the surgery comes down to basic enconomics and the variables associated (more exposure, more research, less stigma, more doctors, price decrease). I do hope that once LL surgey becomes more normalized, prices don't shoot up because doctors see how popular/profitable this specific practice is. On the plus side, the longer it is around, the safer the procedure will be, which means less injury, less cost, and all the above. Again, I do appreciate your response and your in-depth take on the situation as a whole. It is good to see there are others who understand my pain and passion. It makes us kin in a way Best of luck on all your endeavors!

[brondo]

Brondo, your response is much appreciated! I definitely agree with everything you said in that the price of the surgery comes down to basic enconomics and the variables associated (more exposure, more research, less stigma, more doctors, price decrease). I do hope that once LL surgey becomes more normalized, prices don't shoot up because doctors see how popular/profitable this specific practice is. On the plus side, the longer it is around, the safer the procedure will be, which means less injury, less cost, and all the above. Again, I do appreciate your response and your in-depth take on the situation as a whole. It is good to see there are others who understand my pain and passion. It makes us kin in a way Best of luck on all your endeavors!

You're welcome dude!

[ghkid2019]

Credit score doesn't matter nearly as much as income for high risk loans like these, and as you already know, your credit score is not the best but that's the least of yus concerns

Get a good paying job/career or have parents willing to help you out. Or save for a decade. That's the only three ways too do LL in America.

Your credit is not the problem. Your income is. I don't know your income but I already know it's not very high


There's always India if you're so desperate, or Donghoon Lee for like 25k. You said you "can't wait any longer" for some reason. If you can't wait, then India or Korea Donghoon LON. Max out four credit cards, cash advance, boom go to Korea.

Though I'm sure you can wait and finish school. Get a goodest job, then you can work a year, save like a homeless, then take loan

Lol don't bet on a price drop. If it drops it's gonna still cost 75k$+.

[BelowTheMean]

I do have a sizable income right now, but maybe I should wait a little longer to see if I can boost my credit higher. I appreciate your insight!

Having higher credit would get you a lower interest rate, and the interest rates for unsecured loans with an imperfect credit score are basically usury. What I mean is to just have more assets in general so the financial impact of the surgery isn't as big in the long term. However, if you can accumulate the funds now, then I suppose there are benefits to getting it done earlier. You just have to weigh the pros and cons.

Personally I've known about LL since 2013 and really got into it starting 2014. Since then I've been on and off about whether I wanted to actually do it. I've been financially stable enough to do it since 2017, but I haven't been single so I haven't put much thought into it until this year. This all kind of worked out since Stryde is available now, but that didn't really impact my decision.

For me, doing LL earlier and having less money wouldn't be worth it, since I'm primarily doing it to increase the pool of women I can date. If I'm more confident from being taller but I have a mountain of debt weighing down on me, then I think those things would cancel each other out for me. That's just my personal view though and your goals and circumstances are surely different.

[NotSoBigBadBruin]

Lol don't bet on a price drop.

GH Kid is right. If demand increases, prices will increase as well, at least when it comes to experienced doctors like Paley. Of course, there will also be a surge of new doctors offering CLL, but would you really want to be their guinea pig?

[precice strider]

GH Kid is right. If demand increases, prices will increase as well, at least when it comes to experienced doctors like Paley. Of course, there will also be a surge of new doctors offering CLL, but would you really want to be their guinea pig?

Oh btw, I've already seen a doctor from the start of that era: Dr. Nic Gay.

He appears to be a normal sports orthopedic surgeon who just decided out of nowhere he wanted to start offering CLL to make money. He's the only one in the Bay Area offering CLL and he charges $100k. He only offers cosmetic limb lengthening and not discrepancy or deformity.

The website claims he is perfectly capable of inserting Stryde nails because he has inserted many trauma nails before, but he likely has little history handling complications. Im not sure how many LL patients he has had as I have never seen a Dr. Gay diary.

[Tengo]

Whats your age and height?

You're not alone with how you feel. I've known I need to get LL for over 10 years but I start to forget it and feel normal when I get into relationships and feel like I can be accepted for what I am now, however.. when crap hits the fan and life slaps you in the face you realise LL is the only way. I'm currently reaching my 30's and panicking about how this time passed....?? Literally working 3 jobs now to hit my target no matter what. Dont panic right now just because you feel down, make sure you set a plan over 2/3 years saving everything and at least 10 years wont go by in a click without results.

GHKid mentioned some cheap doctors; back when I was reading the old forum Ilizarov Centre was like $12k with good results; if something like that is still available I would look into it.

If you want a better career over the next few years go study something like data science online. With some determination you can finish it in a month and get a decent starting salary.

[brondo]

I wouldn't go to a cheap doctor at all. This is not the type of surgery you want to cheap on even if you're desperate. People have ended up dead or not being able to walk anymore. They have had to get there complications fixed by more reputable doctors and it ended up costing them even more. This is something that you need to get right the first time and only time.

[Montreal172]

1- Incorporate
2- Down-payment on a property you should lease.
3- Inquire on an HSA (health spending account)
4- Use the funds of your surgery so your redirect them into tax credit in your business.

Best way to make the surgery worthwhile, IMO.

[brondo]

Oh btw, I've already seen a doctor from the start of that era: Dr. Nic Gay.

He appears to be a normal sports orthopedic surgeon who just decided out of nowhere he wanted to start offering CLL to make money. He's the only one in the Bay Area offering CLL and he charges $100k. He only offers cosmetic limb lengthening and not discrepancy or deformity.

The website claims he is perfectly capable of inserting Stryde nails because he has inserted many trauma nails before, but he likely has little history handling complications. Im not sure how many LL patients he has had as I have never seen a Dr. Gay diary.

Yeah, I think this is why we need to grow the LL community and spread awareness and educate whoever wants to go through with this surgery.

[precice strider]

Yeah, I think this is why we need to grow the LL community and spread awareness and educate whoever wants to go through with this surgery.

In addition, I have a suspicion that the "prior American surgeon" here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CFh61NWHBX2/
might have been Dr. Gay.

Dr. Mahboubian is considered to be just as good or better than Debiparshad, and Drs. Paley, Rozbruch, and Assayag/Conway are largely considered to be better.
Therefore, I have difficulty believing it was one of those doctors.

It was a mid-procedure complication. As Dr. Paley says,
"Many doctors say they can do it because they can put the nails in, and they probably can. But that's the easy part. The hard part is watching the patient and responding when something goes wrong."

That's where doctors like Dr. Gay fall short. He asserts his skill by saying he has inserted many trauma nails. But if someone had a complication who knows what will happen. People need to be warned.

[brondo]

In addition, I have a suspicion that the "prior American surgeon" here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CFh61NWHBX2/
might have been Dr. Gay.

Dr. Mahboubian is considered to be just as good or better than Debiparshad, and Drs. Paley, Rozbruch, and Assayag/Conway are largely considered to be better.
Therefore, I have difficulty believing it was one of those doctors.

It was a mid-procedure complication. As Dr. Paley says,
"Many doctors say they can do it because they can put the nails in, and they probably can. But that's the easy part. The hard part is watching the patient and responding when something goes wrong."

That's where doctors like Dr. Gay fall short. He asserts his skill by saying he has inserted many trauma nails. But if someone had a complication who knows what will happen. People need to be warned.

Yeah, a good LL doctor will know how to deal with complications and know how to fix them. They will also understand the rate to lengthen and how to recognize things like non-unions or preconsolidation. Like what you said, a bunch of doctors can insert a nail, but it's what happens afterwards that makes a quality LL doctor who they are. This Dr. Gay is a huge red flag and I hope people in this community warn others to not to do business with him.

[Bane]

I wouldn't realistically expect a major price drop. It's basic economics with the supply and demand curve. There is a very small supply of qualified orthopedic surgeons who can do leg lengthening surgery, and a very high demand for CLL. So that's why the price is so high. If the price for a qualified surgeon was greatly reduced, demand would be so high the surgeon can only accept a small percentage of clients, and thus be able to raise prices again.

But if you have surgery, there is a return on investment. You're supposed to get an extra $800/year salary for each additional inch of height. Also, being taller helps open opportunities to more high paying jobs, and it's better for your emotional health. So over a few decades, you can get most, if not all and even more, of the money you invested back.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

If the price for a qualified surgeon was greatly reduced, demand would be so high the surgeon can only accept a small percentage of clients, and thus be able to raise prices again.

And if the inverse happens, way more supply of qualified surgeons than demand for LL, they could just change the focus of their practices.  You will never see cheap LL except by going to a poor country, and it's not cheap compared to other things there.

[Tengo]

Best case scenario is for some institution to offer loans for LL similar to student tuition loans. Shorter people are usually smart from my experience because of their conditioning and LL may well improve prospects as much as a degree.

[ghkid2019]

CareCredit exists. It's a loan for cosmetic procedures.

Lol I highly doubt LL will improve prospects as much as a degree lol. In the Us Anyways. The only people who get LL are the ones already with successful career and at least a somewhat decent income

Height may improve your prospects in the workforce, but c'mon man let's be real. Marginally at best. Competency is still the number one factor. Of course if it's like a sales job or shietty job sure since those anyone can do, those are entry level no degree jobs and first impressions matter. but if ur talking about banking firm or shiet like that, it's mostly competency in terms of getting hired. And once you're within, sure height can help with promotion but not get you originally hired helped much

[Bane]

I think you’re underestimating the influence of height. Of course, competency is the most important factor for a job. But when you apply for a job, the reality is that there are dozens, even over a hundred, competent applicants you are competing against. With something like 50 or so competent applicants to choose from, do you really think height will be so trivial? How many upper level executives do you see that are under 5’9”, or 5’4” for a woman? Height has a much deeper influence in everyone’s subconscious than what you would like to believe.

[ghkid2019]

So it matters once you're up there already or seeking to be up there and are already in a good spot but just want to dig in and climb even higher. What I was referring to is, doing LL while you're way down down here, as in jobless and no skills.

[Tengo]

This stuff is subjective but from my experience, my degree had little influence on my career progression and the businesses I've done on the side (my height had little to do with career too). Basically when I wear 1cm shoe height vs 4cm I get completely different reactions from people and I know that the difference can open doors, based on having more confidence to express and the positive reactions received from it. In terms of offering loans to young inexperienced kids, yea its not a good investment. Also in UK I dont see any carecredit style options.

[moneyOnmoney1212]

I know Dr. M takes carecredit.
But is there anyway it can be used with Dr. Debiparshad ?

[ghkid2019]

CareCredit is just a credit card. You will be paying the surgeon in full anyways. You deal with CareCredit, not the surgeon. So basically every cosmetic surgeon technically"accept" CareCredit

[Medium Drink Of Water]

CareCredit is just a credit card. You will be paying the surgeon in full anyways. You deal with CareCredit, not the surgeon. So basically every cosmetic surgeon technically"accept" CareCredit

Just like some stores don't take certain cards or any cards at all, not every doctor accepts CareCredit.

[ghkid2019]

My bad. But any surgeon that accept credit card will accept CareCredit, 80% of the tiempo. My bad though. Some surgeon don't take credit card at all, very true. The fault is mine.

Thanks for correcting me

[MakeMeTallAF]

The surgeon's fees are not that much compared to the overall cost of the procedure, even if they came down it wouldn't affect overall cost much.

The reason the procedure is so costly in the US is because healthcare in general is costly in the US, plus the nail itself is costly.

[Bane]

The surgeon's fees are not that much compared to the overall cost of the procedure, even if they came down it wouldn't affect overall cost much.

The reason the procedure is so costly in the US is because healthcare in general is costly in the US, plus the nail itself is costly.

In basic economics, nothing comes for free, and there is a tradeoff for everything. In the US, healthcare in general is costly. But if something goes wrong with surgery, you can sue for malpractice. If you went to the foreign country, it will be extremely difficult to sue for malpractice if something goes wrong. Even if you can sue for malpractice, the time and costs will most likely far exceed any small settlement you may receive.