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[E Z]

I’m 9-months post-op and in about 6-7 months is when it’s recommended to remove the hardware, but what’s the point?

-I know I won’t ever be 100% again.

-I’m at 90%-95% movement wise, and it’s only getting better with time. Good enough for me

-My scars have healed nicely to be honest....Mahboubian initially did a great job so credits to him.

-I don’t have any lingering pains, thank god.

-I really want to be done with this chapter of my life, and going under the knife again brings back bad memories lol.


Only thing I’m worried about and uneducated on is how leaving the hardware relates to cancer? Thanks!

[E Z]

“One thing we do know from studies — placing a long titanium or metal pin down through the middle of a bone to stabilize it is linked with a much higher increase in the amount of metal found in the bloodstream. Chromium seems to have the highest levels reported for these intramedullary nails. Intramedullary titanium nails also increase the amount of titanium found in blood samples, but not as much as chromium. Evidently, the large surface area of the intramedullary nail exposes the bone to more titanium, thus the higher levels of serum (blood) metal.”

https://eorthopod.com/news/can-titanium-plates-be-left-in-the-body-safely/

Really interesting article, worth a read.

[KiloKAHN]

I would think that any big impacts would cause some micro vibration of the nail that wouldn't be good for the bone. So if you do any sports like snowboarding or maybe long distance running, it could be an issue over time. I think that's what some people in recovery on the old forum said anyway.

[E Z]

Agreed. If you’re into athletics after this, get them removed.

Do you have any info related to cancer?

[BetzLandLiberator]

I’m 9-months post-op and in about 6-7 months is when it’s recommended to remove the hardware, but what’s the point?

-I know I won’t ever be 100% again.

-I’m at 90%-95% movement wise, and it’s only getting better with time. Good enough for me

-My scars have healed nicely to be honest....Mahboubian initially did a great job so credits to him.

-I don’t have any lingering pains, thank god.

-I really want to be done with this chapter of my life, and going under the knife again brings back bad memories lol.


Only thing I’m worried about and uneducated on is how leaving the hardware relates to cancer? Thanks!

Don't be retarded, take it out. You will never fully recover with the nail in.
Bone naturally bends when you run or do heavy weightlifting. The nail does not let the bone bend naturally and in extreme cases it could break your bone. 

[Ghostfish]

Don't be retarded, take it out. You will never fully recover with the nail in.
Bone naturally bends when you run or do heavy weightlifting. The nail does not let the bone bend naturally and in extreme cases it could break your bone.

I completely agree with you. Take the nail out!

[Movie]

Yeah bro I'm going to disagree with you on this one. I don't think the nails are letting me recover 100% if you're saying you're 90-95% that's probably walking lol but I can't lift weights (squat my with 180 lbs, deadlift 120Lbs ish) without feeling pain and tightness afterwards coming from my hips and I know it's because of the screws there also when I sprint my mobility feels limited and I'm sure it's because if the rods in there and screws, I know for a fact I'll be much better once the rods are out and I'm recovered from that second surgery. Also it's dangerous maintaining the screws in there god forbid you get into an accident that breaks your femurs and bends the nail inside your bone, It'll be a much more radical surgery.

[Kogi314]

Hi Movie. Its always good to see your post. How do you feel in regards to working out and running? Is it just tight? Why are you saying you won't recover 100%.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Removal surgery was a lot easier than the insertion surgery for me.  The legs don't have to be broken, so it's much less traumatic.  You'll be standing and walking again really quickly.

[Kogi314]

Hi Movie. Its always good to see your post. How do you feel in regards to working out and running? Is it just tight? Why are you saying you won't recover 100%.

[jem_semarc]

Removal surgery was a lot easier than the insertion surgery for me.  The legs don't have to be broken, so it's much less traumatic.  You'll be standing and walking again really quickly.

How quick would you say?

[Medium Drink Of Water]

How quick would you say?

Maybe 1-3 days.

[E Z]

How long did you wait to remove it?

[Medium Drink Of Water]

How long did you wait to remove it?

You mean me?

Surgery in June 2007, removal in December 2009.

[E Z]

You mean me?

Surgery in June 2007, removal in December 2009.

Maybe a stupid question but I wonder if there’s a SMALL loss of height due to removal? What do you think?

[BetzLandLiberator]

How quick would you say?

I was literally walking again (without crutches) the same day.
There is not reason to fear the removal surgery.
It's an outpatient surgery.
It's not at all like the insertion surgery.

[Sweden]

I never removed mine. They’re in since January 2013. They don’t remove them in developed countries if they don’t bother you.

They don’t bother me. The lower screws man sometimes hurt when I get an impact right there, but other than that it’s nothing.

I jump around and do flips and everything with them inside.

[E Z]

I never removed mine. They’re in since January 2013. They don’t remove them in developed countries if they don’t bother you.

They don’t bother me. The lower screws man sometimes hurt when I get an impact right there, but other than that it’s nothing.

I jump around and do flips and everything with them inside.

Interesting, and I’m assuming your nails clearly weren’t  weight bearing nails like the Stryde nail

[Sweden]

Interesting, and I’m assuming your nails clearly weren’t  weight bearing nails like the Stryde nail

Yes they were, up to 60kg only though.

[E Z]

Yes they were, up to 60kg only though.

Why do you think they dont remove the nails in your country?

Do you think you can squat 300-400 lbs safely?

[Sweden]

Why do you think they dont remove the nails in your country?

Do you think you can squat 300-400 lbs safely?

I don’t think you understand this fully.

My legs have healed.
Yes I can squat 300 pounds.

Removal is pointless. It’s putting your health at too high of risk.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Maybe a stupid question but I wonder if there’s a SMALL loss of height due to removal? What do you think?

I doubt it.  Why would there be?  The bone is fully healed and that's what determines your height.

[readyprecisestryde]

Hello EZ,

Please look at page 20 of the link below and may answer your question

https://sa1s3.patientpop.com/assets/docs/126372.pdf

Thank you for writing your journal

[ghkid2019]

As Paley puts it, removal timing is not crucial. Like Sweden is an example, nails in for 7 years and doing fine. You should get the nails removed eventually because idk maybe the nail hurts ur ass or u getting a lil bit less bone marrow area(doubt it lmao), but it's absolutely no rule to get it removed "a year or two after surgery," only a suggestion. And like op said, metal levels rose in blood, probably not anything significant but u should get it removed. But don't worry about having to get it removed one year or two years post op if it doesn't affect you, nothing will happen to you even if it stays in there for a while

[BetzLandLiberator]

As Paley puts it, removal timing is not crucial. Like Sweden is an example, nails in for 7 years and doing fine. You should get the nails removed eventually because idk maybe the nail hurts ur ass or u getting a lil bit less bone marrow area(doubt it lmao), but it's absolutely no rule to get it removed "a year or two after surgery," only a suggestion. And like op said, metal levels rose in blood, probably not anything significant but u should get it removed. But don't worry about having to get it removed one year or two years post op if it doesn't affect you, nothing will happen to you even if it stays in there for a while

I don't know about the other nails, but every single Betz patients that I know took the nails out and everyone thinks it's like night and day. You feel better, you run better, you squat better, etc... without the nails. Frankly, I don't think anyone ever considered not taking the nails out.

I could definitely feel the nails when they were in and I would feel way more tired after working out.
It's not expensive, it's a simpler surgery and super fast. No reason to leave the nails. You may regret when you are old.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

I noticed a difference as well.  The legs seemed to have less internal pressure when doing certain tasks that put force on them.

[Movie]

in Fact every single person in this forum that I've personally read's opinion after removing the nails has been a positive one, they say it's much better and I'm sure it's true, our bone will not suffer from screw pains, It will bend the way it's naturally supposed to and also the nails weight a bit, it's like carrying a couple pounds extra in your legs, I'm sure that has some play in why one would feel better, lighter and more agile after they recover from the removal surgery.

[Tartar]

Sincerely it sounds crazy, why you should prefer to keep the nail inside you? Trust your doctor, it's pointless. In addition I'm not sure but it could generate problems with exams such as MRI, even if probably most of the nail is made of titanium (that is not ferromagnetic). This post sounds to me like the people against the vaccination or even worse lol.
Anyway, have you (for those who have already removed them) kept the nails as a memory? I mean bring the nail to your house after the removal.

[Purushrottam]

Please remove the Precice rods within 2 years if you have healed.

I had my operation with Paley and the removal with Dr. Rozbruch.

According to Paley’s website, some rate earth minerals inside the magnet in the rod might potentially leak into your bloodstream. The chances are low but it’s pointless to live with that risk when it can be avoided.

Dr. Roz said that the bone tissue is constantly growing and will grow around the rods, filling into all the crevices. This will make rod removal more complicated the longer you wait. They will have to “shave” more bone tissue away.


The removal operation was way easier than the main operating. I walked out of the hospital (with crutches for safety... they didn’t want me to fall). I only took 1 day off from work (Friday) and was back to work (w.o crutches) on Monday. My colleagues didn’t notice any limp.


(One of my legs got sore later in the week but that’s a different story). By 6 weeks after, I was back in the gym doing squats and deadlifts (I don’t remember the exact time but it’s in my diary).

My legs felt normal immediately after. The rods mess with the bone flexibility and will get in the way of full recovery.

TLDR: Get the rods removed.

[TheAlchemist]

Great info across the board from LL vets!

I'm in the process of planning and budgeting for my rod removal. For the actual op, I went with Paley and knowingly paid a substantial premium over other docs given the risk / reward assessment and going with the most reputable doc. In hindsight I'm happy with the decision even factoring in the premium of $20k to $30k as I'm happy with the outcome and am fully aware of the much higher risks/commitment involved in the initial op. In other words the cost / benefit and associated risk made sense to me paying top dollar for the initial op......

Question for all: Given the nature of the rod removal procedure, and assumed reduced complexity and related risks as compared to the initial op, what would you say the cost / benefit is with going with the right doc? Going with Paley right now would cost me around $18k, while there are other US docs that can possibly do the procedure for $14k, or even as low as $10k with the right insurance. Going a step further, I've heard you can get the removal done for around $5k with Dr. Giotikas in Greece.

A part of me thinking going with a US doc for the lowest possible fee (e.g. $10k to $14k) makes more sense than paying the Paley premium given the risk/nature of the procedure. Another part of me thinks, well if the procedure is that simple why not save even more money and go to Dr. G in Greece?

Would love to hear people who've had their rods removed thought process was when selecting a doc and budgeting for the removal op?

Thanks!

[Arcon]

Great info across the board from LL vets!

I'm in the process of planning and budgeting for my rod removal. For the actual op, I went with Paley and knowingly paid a substantial premium over other docs given the risk / reward assessment and going with the most reputable doc. In hindsight I'm happy with the decision even factoring in the premium of $20k to $30k that I paid by doing it with Paley and all the associated overhead costs with staying and living out in Florida as opposed to doing it with another slightly cheaper US doc where I could save costs living home, etc. as I'm happy with the outcome and am fully aware of the risks/commitment involved in the initial op. In other words the cost / benefit and associated risk makes sense to me......

Question for all: Given the nature of the rod removal procedure, complexity and related risks, what would you say the cost / benefit is with going with the right doc? Going with Paley right now would cost me around $18k, while there are other US docs that can possibly do the procedure for $14k, or even as low as $10k with the right insurance. Going a step further, I've heard you can get the removal done for around $5k with Dr. Giotikas in Greece.

A part of me thinking going with a US doc for the lowest possible fee (e.g. $10k to $14k) makes more sense than paying the Paley premium given the risk/nature of the procedure. Another part of me thinks, well if the procedure is that simple why not save even more money and go to Dr. G in Greece?

Would love to hear people who've had their rods removed thought process was when selecting a doc and budgeting for the removal op?

Thanks!

Well, EU hospitals are so much more competitive than the US these days in all types of medical services and with similar quality standards, so what you are thinking does make sense.
The only problem is that Giotikas prices out all implant removals that aren’t his and puts them on a separate waiting list (he actually calls it "discount and prioritization to his own cases", but it's the same thing, isn't it ?). It may still be worth it though.