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[massco]

Hello,

I know one of the reasons most men do the CLL is to improve their dating life.
I feel its OK to acknowledge it. For those who have finished the procedure and are fully recovered ¿do you feel the extra inhces it have really improved your dating life?

I would like to hear your expereriences.

[BetzLandLiberator]

Hello,

I know one of the reasons most men do the CLL is to improve their dating life.
I feel its OK to acknowledge it. For those who have finished the procedure and are fully recovered ¿do you feel the extra inhces it have really improved your dating life?

I would like to hear your expereriences.

It wasn't one of the reasons for my CLL, it is was THE REASON. When you are below the 5% in terms of height for a man (165cm or 5'5''in my case) it's really tough in the dating market.

I did better than expected before my LL but after adding 10cm I've got an 700% improvement in terms of hook ups and one-night stands (yes, I took notes and did the math...lol).

So in my case the LL was definitely worth it. I think  anyone bellow average height for a male will see big improvements like me.

The effect of LL on average and tall males I can only guess but I think it will be less drastic if any.

[Futureller]

I'm currently below average, 5'7.5" looking to do femurs to add 3+ inches, my reasons besides just feeling short, I'm looking forward to having more going for me in the dating game.  Most definitely LL will help me dating wise at my current height, not only that but just feeling more confident in my own skin and getting over my height nuerosis, will make it easier for me to talk to women. 

Only thing holding me back is the money right now.

[TheAlchemist]

The effect of LL on average and tall males I can only guess but I think it will be less drastic if any.

My experience was the effect of LL on average to tall (I went from 5'9 to 6 ft) was pretty significant. I did well with women before LL but it was always a challenge with those women who had a dating rule of '6 ft or over only' as I had to work a lot harder and emphasize other aspects (personality, life style, confidence, wealth) to be successful with them. These women are typically the more attractive group and come in all heights (I've met short women who stated they'd only date 6 ft or above.) For these women, it doesn't matter if you are short or average, if you don't meet their tall threshold, you are filtered out.

Now, as a barefoot 6 ft person, although it's only been a bit over a month since finishing lengthening, I can say that being tall has made it a lot easier with women. I get their attention immediately and don't feel the need to emphasize other things like personality or conversational skills to keep their attraction level high as much as I used to.

[BetzLandLiberator]

My experience was the effect of LL on average to tall (I went from 5'9 to 6 ft) was pretty significant. Now, as a barefoot 6 ft person, although it's only been a bit over a month since finishing lengthening, I can say that being tall has made it a lot easier with women. I get their attention immediately and don't feel the need to emphasize other things like personality or conversational skills to keep their attraction level high as much as I used to.

Great for you man! It's nice to know too, as I'm thinking about doing my tibias this year.

But would you say that your improvement was as drastic as 700%?
In my case it was really life changing.

It's difficult to explain for people that are average or tall, but the majority of women are disgusted with short males. It's an evolutionary thing, they can't control.
I don't say this as a hyperbole, you could see in their faces when I was short, even though I'm reasonably good looking guy and very fit. Hell, i didn't need to see in their faces because so many times they directly told me that I was too short (I was once called a "half a person" by a female friend of a friend...).

And that was all gone after my LL and extra 10cm.
It was like I only became an adult in women's eyes after getting my LL.

That's what I meant for the change not being as drastic for average to tall.

[TheAlchemist]

Great for you man! It's nice to know too, as I'm thinking about doing my tibias this year.

But would you say that your improvement was as drastic as 700%?
In my case it was really life changing.

It's difficult to explain for people that are average or tall, but the majority of women are disgusted with short males. It's an evolutionary thing, they can't control.
I don't say this as a hyperbole, you could see in their faces when I was short, even though I'm reasonably good looking guy and very fit. Hell, i didn't need to see in their faces because so many times they directly told me that I was too short (I was once called a "half a person" by a female friend of a friend...).

And that was all gone after my LL and extra 10cm.
It was like I only became an adult in women's eyes after getting my LL.

That's what I meant for the change not being as drastic for average to tall.

700% is amazing man. It's only been a month but I'm no where close to that. I'm happy for you and it's a great example of how, with the right mindset, LL can be life changing.

I think the significance of LL in the context of women really depends on the type of women we are talking about.

I think in the context of the general majority of women, you are right, going from short to average is far more significant than going from average to tall as being short is unfortunately almost a deal breaker for the large majority of women and you destroy that constraint by going from short to average and get results like 700%.

However, I think in the context of the highest value women (highly attractive, intelligent, exciting lifestyle) I think going from average to tall is more significant than going from short to average because these women are highly selective and it isn't uncommon for them to have a "6 ft and over" rule. High value women have an enormous amount of options that can be overwhelming (if she's online and outgoing she could get 100's of approaches from men) and she is just going to filter out any man "not tall" to be efficient. So in the context of these women, if you were 5'5, or 5'9, short or average, it doesn't matter, you are the same to her, didn't meet the cut and it's rare that they compromise (it can happen, it did for me, but I had to bring a lot to the table....)

The above is purely based on hooking up.....when it comes to long term relationships, other traits and compatibility considerations beyond height become far more important (values, career, wealth, life style, etc) , which is why you see a lot of disparity in attractiveness in marriages.

[Canon]

It depends where you live. In my case i am 184 barefoot and i am of the opinion that i could perform better in the date game if i was 190 tall

[LLMadeMeTall]

While I haven't had a 700% increase, yes, I my dating life has changed.  Since I was 5'11" before LL, I didn't see a huge increase in numbers because I was already doing all right with women.  Where I have really noticed the difference is in the quality of women I can get.  Post LL, I can get high value women a lot more easily.

[Sanity]

My experience was the effect of LL on average to tall (I went from 5'9 to 6 ft) was pretty significant. I did well with women before LL but it was always a challenge with those women who had a dating rule of '6 ft or over only' as I had to work a lot harder and emphasize other aspects (personality, life style, confidence, wealth) to be successful with them. These women are typically the more attractive group and come in all heights (I've met short women who stated they'd only date 6 ft or above.) For these women, it doesn't matter if you are short or average, if you don't meet their tall threshold, you are filtered out.

Now, as a barefoot 6 ft person, although it's only been a bit over a month since finishing lengthening, I can say that being tall has made it a lot easier with women. I get their attention immediately and don't feel the need to emphasize other things like personality or conversational skills to keep their attraction level high as much as I used to.

it seems like you did all 8cm on femurs. did u have a big torso or short legs to begin with (for ur height). if not than i suppose doing 3 inches solely on femurs would make ur tibs look so much smaller and ur torso aswell. did people point that out to you or were they oblivious to it. im just curious because i did ll too and feel the disproportions.

[TheAlchemist]

it seems like you did all 8cm on femurs. did u have a big torso or short legs to begin with (for ur height). if not than i suppose doing 3 inches solely on femurs would make ur tibs look so much smaller and ur torso aswell. did people point that out to you or were they oblivious to it. im just curious because i did ll too and feel the disproportions.

I had a relatively large torso pre LL. My relative wingspan was slightly large at about 5'10 (my original height was 5'9). I think post LL my proportions here look much better. Longish legs relative to torso is IMO an attractive trait. 

My pre LL tibia / femur ratio was .79, or just within the normal range. Post LL my tibias definitely look small relative to my femurs but I'm unbothered by it. I haven't gotten any comments from anyone. Outside of the LL community I don't think society pays close attention to femur/ tibia proportions.

[Fox]

but the majority of women are disgusted with short males. It's an evolutionary thing, they can't control.
It was like I only became an adult in women's eyes after getting my LL.

you're right but thinking about it, this makes me anxious af. i dont have enough money to go under surgery right now and i basically dont even want to leave my house actually. 

and if you have a high libido like me, you're basically fked until you get the surgery. because no woman you like, likes you back. and i dont want to be with anyone i dont like just because i need sxx.

like im fking damned man.

[Futureller]

you're right but thinking about it, this makes me anxious af. i dont have enough money to go under surgery right now and i basically dont even want to leave my house actually. 

and if you have a high libido like me, you're basically fked until you get the surgery. because no woman you like, likes you back. and i dont want to be with anyone i dont like just because i need sxx.

like im fking damned man.

You must be my twin because you sound exactly like me to the tee.  I got high libido but don't wanna go around hooking up with any girl that has a pulse, I like high value women and it's like a curse when you're older and being short or average is a deal breaker because there's literally 100s of men knocking on the doors of high value girls, so they can afford to be picky and automatically filter out guys that aren't tall because not being tall is an unattractive trait.

After a few bad experiences I don't feel like going out either, I know it's the wrong attitude to have but I just don't feel like going through the same   and headaches in the dating world that short guys gotta deal with, especially being older.  I'm told all the time I'm a good looking guy but being short negates it, I don't blame women or hold a grudge at them, it's just the way society is, and women want to date men and not little boys.

Probably best I don't go out anyway because I'll just be wasting time and money dating out of my league due to my height.  Saving as much as I can over the next year and a half to get LL done and get on with my life. 

I hate to sound negative but it's reality to a large extent.

[Fox]

You must be my twin because you sound exactly like me to the tee.  I got high libido but don't wanna go around hooking up with any girl that has a pulse, I like high value women and it's like a curse when you're older and being short or average is a deal breaker because there's literally 100s of men knocking on the doors of high value girls, so they can afford to be picky and automatically filter out guys that aren't tall because not being tall is an unattractive trait.

After a few bad experiences I don't feel like going out either, I know it's the wrong attitude to have but I just don't feel like going through the same   and headaches in the dating world that short guys gotta deal with, especially being older.  I'm told all the time I'm a good looking guy but being short negates it, I don't blame women or hold a grudge at them, it's just the way society is, and women want to date men and not little boys.

Probably best I don't go out anyway because I'll just be wasting time and money dating out of my league due to my height.  Saving as much as I can over the next year and a half to get LL done and get on with my life. 

I hate to sound negative but it's reality to a large extent.

yeah man i feel you, i've had no bad reactions to my height (yet!) but i know some women denied me just because of my height and i really cant blame them. i want good looking girl(s) in my life, heck it doesnt have to be huge value women as well, i'll settle if only someone i like, likes me back but i really dont feel confident about myself since majority of women i see on the streets are with the guys taller than them. and im short than most men either.

height isnt the number one factor actually, its the confidence you project. as a short guy how much confidence you can have really, when nearly everyone, even your male friends takes you less seriously? or when you are MUCH easier to messed with, mocked with, what happens? you try to / start to thicken your outer shell. thats why i'm always seen as someone always angry. i'm a flirtatious bastard with women but my friggin height limits me like damn. many girl feels like they are out of my league.

i feel like im not a normal fking person due to / thanks to society, media, hollywood, anything. but i really cant blame anyone. its my fking genes and i have to change this. (friggin money needed)

once a girl told me ( she was much taller than i am ), that i would be too perfect if i was taller, lol. and even if i do add 14 cm to my legs, i will be 179.5 barefoot. with shoes i'll be easily 1.81 or 1.82. not that tall again, but definitely not short and even now i can foresee the change in my life when that happens. heck even reading this forum gives me a little bit of confidence that i will be / i can be tall one day.

so..

mOnEY biTCH

[ape]

do you have a pic of you so I can check out your proportions? I'm similar height to you and I'm looking for a similar gain

[TheAlchemist]

@Fox and futureller:

I know how you feel. We all have self-doubt, insecurity and fear of failure. Before LL I had nights where I would go out and say to myself, 'I'm too short, other guys are taller, other guys are richer, other guys are just better. I just don't have it. So why bother. I just want to chill and give up on the idea of getting the women I truly desire because I'm not the ideal male archetype.' When I noticed myself adopting this negative mindset I had to slap myself out of it. I knew and accepted height mattered in society, the world wasn't fair, we aren't all born equal, I didn't deny it, but I also didn't surrender to it. I embraced it.

I am so glad I embraced it. Having height neurosis and STILL persevering to get the women I wanted was like living life as a video game with the difficulty set at hard. This gave me the opportunity to build around other positive aspects of my life like my career, lifestyle, personality, fitness and conversational skills so that even as a below average in height man with severe height neurosis, I still viewed myself as a high value man.....with that mindset an amazing thing happened, women started seeing me as a high value man too.

For the majority of my adult life, living with height neurosis, I acted as though I was never going to get LL and optimized life as best I could with what I had and what was in my control. And it worked. I lived a life of abundance with women despite being below average in height. Suddenly when the stars aligned and I was fortunate enough to move forward with LL, doing LL became a huge enhancement to what was already a high value man, instead of marking the beginning of a high value man. That same video game of life difficulty level setting was suddenly adjusted down to 'easy' and I couldn't be happier. The point I'm trying to make is LL isn't going to transform us into casanovas, it can only enhance an already existing casanova.

If you view LL as some sort of delayed gratification plan to life that you are waiting for to change things upside down, you will lose. Start living life now because you are capable today. 

[cam007]

yeah man i feel you, i've had no bad reactions to my height (yet!) but i know some women denied me just because of my height and i really cant blame them. i want good looking girl(s) in my life, heck it doesnt have to be huge value women as well, i'll settle if only someone i like, likes me back but i really dont feel confident about myself since majority of women i see on the streets are with the guys taller than them. and im short than most men either.

height isnt the number one factor actually, its the confidence you project. as a short guy how much confidence you can have really, when nearly everyone, even your male friends takes you less seriously? or when you are MUCH easier to messed with, mocked with, what happens? you try to / start to thicken your outer shell. thats why i'm always seen as someone always angry. i'm a flirtatious bastard with women but my friggin height limits me like damn. many girl feels like they are out of my league.

i feel like im not a normal fking person due to / thanks to society, media, hollywood, anything. but i really cant blame anyone. its my fking genes and i have to change this. (friggin money needed)

once a girl told me ( she was much taller than i am ), that i would be too perfect if i was taller, lol. and even if i do add 14 cm to my legs, i will be 179.5 barefoot. with shoes i'll be easily 1.81 or 1.82. not that tall again, but definitely not short and even now i can foresee the change in my life when that happens. heck even reading this forum gives me a little bit of confidence that i will be / i can be tall one day.

so..

mOnEY biTCH

Exactly agreed lol.   If these dudes have confidence issues now with women. Them being TALLER isn’t going to help y’all. They got no confidence.  I get girls TALLER than me alot of the time. You have to just love yourself. So if you doing something this drastic it’s to better YOU. Not getting it to increase your  supposed pussy ratio lol.

[5cm Stryde]

Hi The Alchemist,

Thanks for this great feedback and totally agree with you : the height increase will have a positive impact only if the rest is also there.

But as it seems you spent time before undergoing the surgery to be sure it was the good decision, I would definitively be interested if you elaborate on the following (of course, if other who undergo the surgery can add their experience it would be great)  :

1) How do you exactly notice that the height gain is positive with women ?  Could it be the same than a girl who suddendly start to wear high heels (all the guys will definitvely be more interested by her) ?
 Do you feel women look more at you in bars, streets...?
Or are they more responsive when you engage with them ?

I see you are chasing high quality women (same for me) and with lower quality women, I sometimes had the girl chasing me or being really responsive. But it almost never happen to me with high quality women : I am always the one chasing them. Was it also the case for you ? And now this high quality women are directly more into you ?

2) In your particular case, your previous height with lifts was about your actual height without lift. So in fact, for you women should perceive you almost as tall as before. Thus, how can you explain that you feel it is easier with high quality women ?
Is it just because your confidence increase (and not because of the actual height increase) that these girls are more responsive ?

3) You said you already went to a couple of date. But how it went after the first drink ?
Indeed, in my case, to start a relation ship with high quality women (casual or not), the drink was rarely enough. After this drink, some other activities where necessary like going clubbing with active dancing with her, or doing sports together, or whatever, and in bed of course being active and dominant.
For most of these activities, you need to be at least being able to do all movements without difficulty.

So how it goes for you after this first date ? Do you start "losing points" because you are not able to provide it or do you have a different experience ? Or maybe do you explain directly you have an injury so limited ability ?

4) Finally, last point as I am also interested to get your point of view : in my opinion, to be a high quality man, you should also have a busy and active lifestyle and not being only the one working and chasing girls.
In my case, sports plays an important role. I indeed find I increase my value by being part of different sports community such as the football corporate tournament with my firm or playing with my friends various sports like tennis or others. And you aslo start to gain a kind of respect by being good at various kind of sports, which at the end can help you to get girls (especially if you are looking for girls into sports as well)
And with this surgery, there is a risk that you cannot really participate to this kind of activities (the only few studies for sports after limb lengthening shows moderate difficutly to participate to active sports)
 
What is your opinion about it ? I don't know if you are into sports but if you are, do you still feel that a height increase compensate this lost ?


Many thanks again as your different feedback really help to see why and how LL is worth it! Of course, LL is very personnal but still it helps to get opinion of veteran.

[TheAlchemist]

Hi The Alchemist,

Thanks for this great feedback and totally agree with you : the height increase will have a positive impact only if the rest is also there.

But as it seems you spent time before undergoing the surgery to be sure it was the good decision, I would definitively be interested if you elaborate on the following (of course, if other who undergo the surgery can add their experience it would be great)  :

Great questions 5cmStryde! It's only been less than 2 months since I've been out enjoying the new height, I've been limited in my mobility, and I've stayed in one city the whole time so my experience so far isn't robust or comprehensive:

1) In general I get a lot more looks and smiles. From groceries to coffee shops to bars. It could all be in my head because post LL I'm on hyper alert because I'm actively working on my gait. It could even be that girls notice my abnormal gait and stare and and I've mistaken that for something else lol.

Post LL I've had 4 girls randomly say to me I'm tall in random public places. Every date I've been on or girl I've chatted up has mentioned I'm tall. This only happened twice before when I wore lifts for nearly 5 years.
 
I don't have any high value / hot women chasing me post LL. I'm still the one chasing them I think hot top tier women are socially conditioned to be chased.  But I do notice that the taller ones are more receptive to me post LL.

2) I recently did a quick A/B test and found that I was only getting about 1.5 inches with my lifts (they were advertised as 2.25). This results in a net 1.5 inch gain with LL. I was probably 5'11.5 ish with lifts and now post LL with shoes I'm 6'1. I think this is where you cross the threshold from average to tall ish.

As you mentioned my confidence probably has a lot to do with it. I didn't realize back then, but when I wore lifts I was ashamed of what I was doing and in a state of denial which probably had an effect on how I interacted with women.

3) After the date it gets much harder in my current state due to my weak glutes and hips. All I can really do is walk at a slow pace, sit, and chat. As you said I can't be aggressive or dominating due to my fragile physical state. I probably hung out and dated with 7 girls, and I only had sxx with 2. I told all of them I was injured in a car accident. With sxx I could only do 2 positions which allowed me to not use my hips/pelvis, and I really hurt my hip abductor the other night trying to maneuver in bed during sxx. So yeah mentally you are on high alert and it definitely puts a constraint on post date activities. I definitely felt like I "lost points" here as I still come off as a bit of a cripple. I'd expect this to resolve itself in 2 to 3 months as I fully consolidate and regain my strength.

4) This is a great point. LL involves a lot of sacrifice and compromise. Lifestyle and interests is really important in the dating game.  If your lifestyle involves sports and/or physical activities then I might argue LL is not worth it. In my case, being in my mid 30's, athletics were not a big part of my life so the trade off with LL was well worth it.

[BetzLandLiberator]

Exactly agreed lol.   If these dudes have confidence issues now with women. Them being TALLER isn’t going to help y’all. They got no confidence.  I get girls TALLER than me alot of the time. You have to just love yourself. So if you doing something this drastic it’s to better YOU. Not getting it to increase your  supposed pussy ratio lol.

Exactly. As someone that did 10cm LL and really improved his sex/love life because of it, I can attest this. It WON'T change your confidence. If you have no confidence because other men and your friends are taller I don't think LL will totally cure your problems.

It will help a little but in the end there will always be people taller than you. Heck, most my friends from childhood to college (including my brother) are 180cm+, so they are all still taller than me at 174.5cm.

What it WILL change for you after LL is :

1) The discrimination. Most women won't date a really short man, period. Specially if you are below the 5% percentile of male height. That'll be fixed as long as you reach an average height or slight below average height.

2) It will make you more attractive. It's one of the few surgeries that can actually make you more attractive for the majority of women. Women perceive height as one of the aspects of a male being attractive. It's like being slim makes a woman more attractive for men.

Due to those two things your dating options will be much wider than before. But if you have no confidence to begin with you won't be able to enjoy this improvement.

[Fox]

Exactly. As someone that did 10cm LL and really improved his sxx/love life because of it, I can attest this. It WON'T change your confidence. If you have no confidence because other men and your friends are taller I don't think LL will totally cure your problems.

It will help a little but in the end there will always be people taller than you. Heck, most my friends from childhood to college (including my brother) are 180cm+, so they are all still taller than me at 174.5cm.

What it WILL change for you after LL is :

1) The discrimination. Most women won't date a really short man, period. Specially if you are below the 5% percentile of male height. That'll be fixed as long as you reach an average height or slight below average height.

2) It will make you more attractive. It's one of the few surgeries that can actually make you more attractive for the majority of women. Women perceive height as one of the aspects of a male being attractive. It's like being slim makes a woman more attractive for men.

Due to those two things your dating options will be much wider than before. But if you have no confidence to begin with you won't be able to enjoy this improvement.

you're absolutely right. i already have confidence. the only thing left for me to fix is my height. i'm doing suprisingly alright for a guy who is short. but i'm trying reeeally hard compared to tall dudes. i'm only 1.65 and a half what can you expect really? because in the end, its all about how i feel about myself.

[OverrideYourGenetics]

I grew from 165 to 173. I had dated intelligent women, in their late 20s and early 30s, in California. I did not date young or "party" girls. I'm not a club or bar goer.

I can't say that LL helped much with dating in my demographic. Neither did getting pretty muscular after LL.

What helped a lot more was:

1) Moving from a suburban area to an urban one

2) Not wanting a relationship. Women are weird creatures and they want what they can't have. I had a number of hookups as a result of not caring whether I got the woman or not.

3) Moderate consumption of alcohol

[boeing366.5]

My thoughts

* Having done this procedure itself is a major turn off. For dating it's hardly a problem but if you want to take it forward obviously it's going become a problem. It's stupid to think after LL you are basically like you were born that way.
* it's better to do this when younger. Younger the better. More young, more the dating opportunity. You might even be able to call it a late growth spurt

I am replying to the original post here.

[Movie]

As some of you who have read my diary, know I have a girlfriend so can't say that I've been dating around; BUT ... I do get a lot more attention from females I notice more glares, in public specially night clubs ( yes I started going again about 4 months post op). I'm pretty sure if I was single I'd have a good rotation of girls right now lol.

[massco]

@Fox and futureller:

I know how you feel. We all have self-doubt, insecurity and fear of failure. Before LL I had nights where I would go out and say to myself, 'I'm too short, other guys are taller, other guys are richer, other guys are just better. I just don't have it. So why bother. I just want to chill and give up on the idea of getting the women I truly desire because I'm not the ideal male archetype.' When I noticed myself adopting this negative mindset I had to slap myself out of it. I knew and accepted height mattered in society, the world wasn't fair, we aren't all born equal, I didn't deny it, but I also didn't surrender to it. I embraced it.

I am so glad I embraced it. Having height neurosis and STILL persevering to get the women I wanted was like living life as a video game with the difficulty set at hard. This gave me the opportunity to build around other positive aspects of my life like my career, lifestyle, personality, fitness and conversational skills so that even as a below average in height man with severe height neurosis, I still viewed myself as a high value man.....with that mindset an amazing thing happened, women started seeing me as a high value man too.

For the majority of my adult life, living with height neurosis, I acted as though I was never going to get LL and optimized life as best I could with what I had and what was in my control. And it worked. I lived a life of abundance with women despite being below average in height. Suddenly when the stars aligned and I was fortunate enough to move forward with LL, doing LL became a huge enhancement to what was already a high value man, instead of marking the beginning of a high value man. That same video game of life difficulty level setting was suddenly adjusted down to 'easy' and I couldn't be happier. The point I'm trying to make is LL isn't going to transform us into casanovas, it can only enhance an already existing casanova.

If you view LL as some sort of delayed gratification plan to life that you are waiting for to change things upside down, you will lose. Start living life now because you are capable today.

Hi man, glad you are doing great now. Indeed you went from average height to tall.
However I believe you had this advantage since the begining, at 1.75 cm + shoe lifts you where pretty much in the normal height zone since the start.
I myself suffer as well from height neurosis at 165 cm, reaching 175 cm would take me from the short zone to "normal" zone. I might never reach tall but at 175 cm I do believe no women would consider you undeatable if your exceed in other areas, as you did before doing CLL. 175 is not considered short anywhere except in the netherlands.

[BetzLandLiberator]

I myself suffer as well from height neurosis at 165 cm, reaching 175 cm would take me from the short zone to "normal" zone. I might never reach tall but at 175 cm I do believe no women would consider you undeatable if your exceed in other areas, as you did before doing CLL. 175 is not considered short anywhere except in the netherlands.

If you are 165cm like I was you don't suffer height neurosis, you suffer REAL discrimination because of heightism. Any man bellow the 5% percentile suffers from it. It's not a neurosis because it's not only in your head.

I hate that Paley created (and patients accepted) this crap theory that EVERY single CLL only suffers from Height dysphoria/neurosis and not real discrimination.

This is a well researched topic, height discrimination is real and brutal.

[Polvorón]

If you are 165cm like I was you don't suffer height neurosis, you suffer REAL discrimination because of heightism. Any mans bellow the 5% percentile suffers form it. It's not a neurosis because it's not only in your head.

I hate that Paley created (and patients accepted) this crap theory that EVERY single CLL only suffers from Height dysphoria/neurosis and not real discrimination.

This is a well researched topic, height discrimination is real and brutal.

The problem is that there are people against CLL, so the procedures have to be "justified" saying that the patient had height neurosis.

If CLL was accepted, that would not be necessary, the reason would be "the patient just wanted to be taller, deal with it". Nobody forces people to do CLL, so I don't understand why some people try to forbid it. It is about our bodies, not about theirs, so they should accept it.

[ru]

If you are 165cm like I was you don't suffer height neurosis, you suffer REAL discrimination because of heightism. Any man bellow the 5% percentile suffers from it. It's not a neurosis because it's not only in your head.

I hate that Paley created (and patients accepted) this crap theory that EVERY single CLL only suffers from Height dysphoria/neurosis and not real discrimination.

This is a well researched topic, height discrimination is real and brutal.

this is how dr D and dr M markets the surgery. the discrimination is real but if you dont recover properly there wont another type of discrimination because you cant walk for long or stand of long or cant do sports?

very few patients say they recover fully and even then there is not evidence of it. like dr D posted this video of someone running with x legs after LL and called it success story

[BetzLandLiberator]

this is how dr D and dr M markets the surgery. the discrimination is real but if you dont recover properly there wont another type of discrimination because you cant walk for long or stand of long or cant do sports?

very few patients say they recover fully and even then there is not evidence of it. like dr D posted this video of someone running with x legs after LL and called it success story

That's not true. I did 10cm and i recovered fully.

I personally know tons of other LL patients that recovered as well, because I spent 8 months in Germany for my LL and I met almost every single one of Dr. Betz's patients there at the time. I still keep in touch with some of them. They are all fine, with the exception of one tibia patient.

[TheAlchemist]

Hi man, glad you are doing great now. Indeed you went from average height to tall.
However I believe you had this advantage since the begining, at 1.75 cm + shoe lifts you where pretty much in the normal height zone since the start.
I myself suffer as well from height neurosis at 165 cm, reaching 175 cm would take me from the short zone to "normal" zone. I might never reach tall but at 175 cm I do believe no women would consider you undeatable if your exceed in other areas, as you did before doing CLL. 175 is not considered short anywhere except in the netherlands.

Agreed. 175 is a solid height. In my case I suffered from a neurosis that I overcame through LL. 

If you are 165cm like I was you don't suffer height neurosis, you suffer REAL discrimination because of heightism. Any man bellow the 5% percentile suffers from it. It's not a neurosis because it's not only in your head.

I hate that Paley created (and patients accepted) this crap theory that EVERY single CLL only suffers from Height dysphoria/neurosis and not real discrimination.

This is a well researched topic, height discrimination is real and brutal.

Agreed there is a distinct form of actual height discrimination below a certain height threshold (varies by country but I'd say below 5'7 in the US) where dating becomes incomparably more challenging.

I still think that it's important to create value as a man through other means (lifestyle, conversational skills, career, wealth) so that the core areas are optimized and ultimately LL serves as a significant enhancement to an otherwise high value man.

After doing LL I'm more keen on height and it's opened up my eyes, I do see men of shorter stature who are successful with women largely due to them working on other areas of their life. For those with shorter stature now who are planning on doing LL the message is don't view LL as some sort of future milestone for delayed success with women but rather, work on being the best version of yourself and strive to be successful with women now and plan for LL to be an enhancement in the future.

[Fox]

Agreed. 175 is a solid height. In my case I suffered from a neurosis that I overcame through LL. 

Agreed there is a distinct form of actual height discrimination below a certain height threshold (varies by country but I'd say below 5'7 in the US) where dating becomes incomparably more challenging.

I still think that it's important to create value as a man through other means (lifestyle, conversational skills, career, wealth) so that the core areas are optimized and ultimately LL serves as a significant enhancement to an otherwise high value man.

After doing LL I'm more keen on height and it's opened up my eyes, I do see men of shorter stature who are successful with women largely due to them working on other areas of their life. For those with shorter stature now who are planning on doing LL the message is don't view LL as some sort of future milestone for delayed success with women but rather, work on being the best version of yourself and strive to be successful with women now and plan for LL to be an enhancement in the future.

Well you have to be a succesful person in other areas anyway to be able to afford this surgery.

40k euros minimum is a  sh"t load of money,  and thats for one surgery. I mean who on earth can even spend like minimum 80k euros below 30 years of age.
and no matter how successful you are, you are your own enemy, because people (women-judgemental creatures, even if some say height isnt a problem, they lie) dont see you as real man.

discrimination is a real thing. I look at women and i feel like sh"t , everyone feels like out of league and im not even ugly looking guy.

You're right though, we have to work on ourselves and be the best version of ourselves, and when the height added- perfection happening.

But its a little hard to be the best version when you feel like a fking kid around people. thats why ima go 8+6 with two surgeries, when the time comes. (If that time comes before im 30, bcs who gives a fk anyway when you do it at 50)

[TheAlchemist]

Well you have to be a succesful person in other areas anyway to be able to afford this surgery.

40k euros minimum is a  sh"t load of money,  and thats for one surgery. I mean who on earth can even spend like minimum 80k euros below 30 years of age.
and no matter how successful you are, you are your own enemy, because people (women-judgemental creatures, even if some say height isnt a problem, they lie) dont see you as real man.

Agreed in principle but I was actually surprised at Paleys..... a lot of patients were teens or young adults having the entire operation paid for by their parents. There have also been a handful of cases where patients  didn't have the cash on hand to pay for the surgery and have taken out loans to finance the surgery.