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[soitchi]

Got lazy and skipped a few leg days, got back to it the other day and forgot how crippling DOMS could be for legs. I couldn't bend my legs, lift them up, walk properly, etc. For example, putting on pants is debilitating, getting up out of a chair is slow and painful and forget about sleep because turning over with sore hamstrings and glutes is a nightmare.

I am not saying LL and DOMS are the same, I pray for you if you're stupid enough to jump to conclusions so quickly. The symptoms are similar enough that I thought a thread on suggesting everyone to go train their legs to failure for a day might give them some idea or perspective of what might come, could be easier could be worse, I don't know as I have not done LL, maybe someone who has and works out can chime in with their experience on this matter.

Should it be similar to post LL, you guys will get 2-4 days of what it might be like and decide you can't go 3,4,5+ months, I don't know, but even if not, go fùckïng work out and get in shape, judging from how most of you guys are on the proportions subforum you need it. Also inb4 pain meds.

[soitchi]

Seems like no one has interest in this lol

I guess most of you guys rather go into LL blind and hope for the best.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/2uel19/what_is_your_worst_doms_story/
https://www.reddit.com/r/xxfitness/comments/8786an/your_worstinsane_doms_story/
https://www.reddit.com/r/bodybuilding/comments/2p4fgw/worst_doms_experience/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/377gvm/whats_the_worst_doms_youve_ever_had/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/1bwt1b/fittit_whats_the_worse_case_of_doms_youve_ever_had/

If you guys can't get through 2-4 days of DOMS in your legs with unbroken bones, how do you guys know for sure you're ready for LL? Just because you spent a lot of time here reading, is that really enough?

[BetzLandLiberator]

I am not saying LL and DOMS are the same, I pray for you if you're stupid enough to jump to conclusions so quickly. The symptoms are similar enough that I thought a thread on suggesting everyone to go train their legs to failure for a day might give them some idea or perspective of what might come, could be easier could be worse, I don't know as I have not done LL, maybe someone who has and works out can chime in with their experience on this matter.

Should it be similar to post LL, you guys will get 2-4 days of what it might be like and decide you can't go 3,4,5+ months

As someone who weightlifts since I was a teenager and had LL with Dr. Betz years ago (9cm on left femur, 10cm on right femur) I can chime on this.

DOMS and LL pain are NOTHING alike. Not even close. DOMS is actually a "good" pain to feel.

The different types of pains you will have during LL are not "good", you won't feel a sense of accomplishment like when you're having DOM. You will sick and run to your painkillers or you fight to not cry.

And I say "pains" (plural) because you will have different types of pains: stretching pain, abductor pain, nerve pain, etc.. One very different than the other.

So sorry, DOMS is not a good way to see if you will handle LL well or not.
Having the leg broken in a accident would be a more similar experience.

[IwannaBeTaller]

As someone who weightlifts since I was a teenager and had LL with Dr. Betz years ago (9cm on left femur, 10cm on right femur) I can chime on this.

DOMS and LL pain are NOTHING alike. Not even close. DOMS is actually a "good" pain to feel.

The different types of pains you will have during LL are not "good", you won't feel a sense of accomplishment like when you're having DOM. You will sick and run to your painkillers or you fight to not cry.

And I say "pains" (plural) because you will have different types of pains: stretching pain, abductor pain, nerve pain, etc.. One very different than the other.

So sorry, DOMS is not a good way to see if you will handle LL well or not.
Having the leg broken in a accident would be a more similar experience.

As an LL veteran, what's your opinion on LL veterans who insist LL is not a traumatic, painful experience, comparable to being the "hardest thing you will ever do in your life", but rather totally doable and not a big deal in terms of pain, trauma (such as Polycrates who did 6 cm on tibias)? Would you say different people experience LL rather differently, or rather that those people are underestimating/lying?

[BetzLandLiberator]

As an LL veteran, what's your opinion on LL veterans who insist LL is not a traumatic, painful experience, comparable to being the "hardest thing you will ever do in your life", but rather totally doable and not a big deal in terms of pain, trauma (such as Polycrates who did 6 cm on tibias)? Would you say different people experience LL rather differently, or rather that those people are underestimating/lying?

That's an interesting question. I definitely think LL was the "hardest thing I did in my life" and one I'm the most proud of, but that's probably because the end result was so good and the effects in my life were amazing.

Keep in mind that I went from 165cm (less than 5% of male population) to 174cm (176cm in the morning) which is a "short average" in the US but average in my country. This is life changing. It's not the nice, but little, improvement in life you get from, let's say, 175cm to 185cm. I feel like I only became a real adult after LL. It was THAT important for me.

If I hadn't reached my goal or if I had some serious complication and permanent damage I would probably think differently about my experience and maybe I would be traumatized.

I can tell you I was pretty scared in some parts of the process. Even though I didn't have some common problems (e.g. no wide legs) and had some that very few people have (e.g. excruciating adductor pain in the first cms.)

I had to be sent to the hospital once when I started having nerve pain in my back going through my whole leg. Imagine a flaming sword cutting through your butt until it reaches your ankle. That was the feeling 

Also, Betz do not release your IT bands like Paley, which I think it's correct in the long term but in the short term gives you duckass - so you basically look crippled and deformed in the end of lengthening. It's pretty scary and you have to keep reminding yourself that it will go away.

Anyway, that's my take. It is PRETTY BRUTAL and super hard (at least with the old Betzbone) but not traumatizing if you get good results.

[soitchi]

As someone who weightlifts since I was a teenager and had LL with Dr. Betz years ago (9cm on left femur, 10cm on right femur) I can chime on this.

DOMS and LL pain are NOTHING alike. Not even close. DOMS is actually a "good" pain to feel.

The different types of pains you will have during LL are not "good", you won't feel a sense of accomplishment like when you're having DOM. You will sick and run to your painkillers or you fight to not cry.

And I say "pains" (plural) because you will have different types of pains: stretching pain, abductor pain, nerve pain, etc.. One very different than the other.

So sorry, DOMS is not a good way to see if you will handle LL well or not.
Having the leg broken in a accident would be a more similar experience.

If by a "good" pain you mean the light soreness you get if you're active and remained so then that's not the level of DOMS I'm talking about. I'm talking about taking a month or 2 off and then jumping back in heavy and to failure.

I'm not making comparisons to levels of pain but rather I'm comparing quality of life issues, lowering yourself to sit and getting off a seat or toilet or walking up/down stairs being difficult, waking up because you need to turn over, etc.

I don't see what's wrong suggesting people to go workout and have some sort of crippling experience in their legs, it might change some people's minds on LL, or would you rather people go in blind and hope for the best?

[BetzLandLiberator]

If by a "good" pain you mean the light soreness you get if you're active and remained so then that's not the level of DOMS I'm talking about. I'm talking about taking a month or 2 off and then jumping back in heavy and to failure.

No, I'm not talking about that. Dude, I've been weightlifting since I was 16 and I'm in my late 30s.
I never had to take 2 months off, but I had to take two or three weeks off in some occasions due to Doms.

I know what Doms is. And it's still a "good pain" in comparison to the pain you will feel with LL.
There is no comparison. LL pain will make you miserable and depressed.

I'm not making comparisons to levels of pain but rather I'm comparing quality of life issues, lowering yourself to sit and getting off a seat or toilet or walking up/down stairs being difficult, waking up because you need to turn over, etc.

Maybe with Stryde is similar in this aspect, but 7 years ago with Betzbone 1 it was much, much worse. I was basically crippled, on crutches, from late January until November. Things like extreme duckass (which I had in the end), widelegs (which I hadn't) and the waste of you muscles (even for someone that had muscular legs) makes the situation much more extreme.

With DOMS you don't have to worry about a wrong step activating a nerve pain that feels like a sword burning from your hip to your ankle and will put you temporally in a wheelchair.

I don't see what's wrong suggesting people to go workout and have some sort of crippling experience in their legs, it might change some people's minds on LL, or would you rather people go in blind and hope for the best?

I didn't say it's was wrong, I just said it was a wrong a comparison in terms of pain. One is nothing like the other. I had endured Doms multiple times before my LL and I was not prepared for the level of pain I had to endure during LL. It's whole another level.

I do recommend weightlifting for everyone doing LL. During the months I spent in Germany I noticed that the male patients that practiced weightlifting before LL had a much faster recovery and consolidation.

[ZUCC420]

@BetzLandLiberator Sure it seems the pros outweigh the cons instantly post surgery, but I doubt your sentiment will remain the same after 30 years.

[BetzLandLiberator]

@BetzLandLiberator Sure it seems the pros outweigh the cons instantly post surgery, but I doubt your sentiment will remain the same after 30 years.

We never know. But I'm doing great 7 years later. So much that I'm considering tibias.

But I do not recommend LL for anyone that is not bellow average in height and not above average in fitness.
If you smoke, is overweight, do not exercise regularly, etc... this is not for you.
If you're 180cm or more...this is not for you either.

[soitchi]

No, I'm not talking about that. Dude, I've been weightlifting since I was 16 and I'm in my late 30s.
I never had to take 2 months off, but I had to take two or three weeks off in some occasions due to Doms.

And that's exactly what I'm not talking about either, I know what level of DOMS you're talking about, a little bit of soreness even after destroying your body the day before because you're consistently lifting. This isn't DOMS that you can kill with a cold shower and doesn't get in the way of everyday life. I've taken time off before and like those in those Reddit posts, the DOMS on muscles that hasn't been active like previously is not just a bit of soreness, it's extremely sore, your legs are stiff/can't bend, same with arms they stay in t-rex position, etc. If you skip leg day for a few weeks and go back in heavy to failure, you're going to wish you didn't.

[BetzLandLiberator]

And that's exactly what I'm not talking about either, I know what level of DOMS you're talking about, a little bit of soreness even after destroying your body the day before because you're consistently lifting. This isn't DOMS that you can kill with a cold shower and doesn't get in the way of everyday life. I've taken time off before and like those in those Reddit posts, the DOMS on muscles that hasn't been active like previously is not just a bit of soreness, it's extremely sore, your legs are stiff/can't bend, same with arms they stay in t-rex position, etc. If you skip leg day for a few weeks and go back in heavy to failure, you're going to wish you didn't.

I'm not talking about soreness, I'm talking DOMS exactly like these: stiff/can't bend, arms super hard to move, body all painful and limited mobility, etc... No one stops 2 or 3 weeks just for soreness.

Yet...it is not even close to the pain I felt during LL. I didn't need Opioids for DOMS, I did FOR MONTHS during LL. Big difference.

To be fair with you, reading the Stryde's diaries it seems what they have is more similar to DOMS than the excruciating pain me and my fellow LLérs had to endure 7 years ago with Betzbone1.

[Great321]

As an LL veteran, what's your opinion on LL veterans who insist LL is not a traumatic, painful experience, comparable to being the "hardest thing you will ever do in your life", but rather totally doable and not a big deal in terms of pain, trauma (such as Polycrates who did 6 cm on tibias)? Would you say different people experience LL rather differently, or rather that those people are underestimating/lying?

Humans generally forget how their worst pains have felt like women who gave birth. There will be LL patients who have/had a lot of physical pain like BetzandLiberator and there will be patients who had physical pains which in the aftermath didn't feel too bad even if they might not have thought so when they were in pain.

In both cases LL is mentally challenging because it disables you for multiple months and in some cases even years.

I don't think that LL is the worst a human could ever go through if that person is 1) mentally stable enough 2) optimistic 3) disciplined and in the best case 4) has family and/or friends who care for him/her during this time

After all I do believe that most LL patients will have rather different experiences even with the same surgery. With some pains walking is still possible while with others it is not. Some last one day others for months. One patient can have mostly ankle problems, the other mostly knee problems, and many more examples. Certain pains are worse than others but not all LL patients will experience everything so some come to the conclusion that it wasn't that bad after all. But again I would only recommend LL for people who are objectively short and have a problem with it. To make a compromise with your health/athleticism is not worth it if you are average and above. Think about all the physical demanding things you still want to do in life and that you might not be able to try those after LL.

[IwannaBeTaller]

We never know. But I'm doing great 7 years later. So much that I'm considering tibias.

You say you don't recommend LL to anyone who isn't below average height. Yet you think about doing another surgery despite already being average in your country. Why?

[BetzLandLiberator]

You say you don't recommend LL to anyone who isn't below average height. Yet you think about doing another surgery despite already being average in your country. Why?

I have been living in the US, not in my country for the last couple of years.
Even though it would be nice to be average in the US too, my main reason to do tibia would be less about the height and more about getting my tibia/femur ratio back.

Visually the difference is negligible but it makes Squatting and some other exercises much harder. Even though I can squat more than before LL it  is not as easy, as I have to compensate the short tibia putting my chest and head forward. So far my back is great because I have great form but it could get harder with age. Some Yoga poses got harder too.

Also, some doctors say that you can get arthritis down the line if your ratio is too far from 0.80 (mine is 0.67 now).

But I'm just considering the options (I had a consultation with Betz and I'll have one with Mahboubian) because:
1) I have extra money for this,
2) And have a job that gives me extra free time to do it.

But I'm not sure I'll do it. Now it's really a cosmetic thing. Before it was a necessity.

[soitchi]

I'm not talking about soreness, I'm talking DOMS exactly like these: stiff/can't bend, arms super hard to move, body all painful and limited mobility, etc... No one stops 2 or 3 weeks just for soreness.

Yet...it is not even close to the pain I felt during LL. I didn't need Opioids for DOMS, I did FOR MONTHS during LL. Big difference.

To be fair with you, reading the Stryde's diaries it seems what they have is more similar to DOMS than the excruciating pain me and my fellow LLérs had to endure 7 years ago with Betzbone1.

In my first post I mentioned DOMS this bad is only a few days, the few week stuff is if you were inactive then jumped back into heavy lifting.

[ZUCC420]

I have been living in the US, not in my country for the last couple of years.
Even though it would be nice to be average in the US too, my main reason to do tibia would be less about the height and more about getting my tibia/femur ratio back.

So your after the validation of being tall aren't ya?

Visually the difference is negligible but it makes Squatting and some other exercises much harder. Even though I can squat more than before LL it  is not as easy, as I have to compensate the short tibia putting my chest and head forward. So far my back is great because I have great form but it could get harder with age. Some Yoga poses got harder too.

How about DON'T SQUAT after extending 4 inches of a single damn bone!

Also, some doctors say that you can get arthritis down the line if your ratio is too far from 0.80 (mine is 0.67 now).

Ah of course, after doing LL and having the probability of arthritis increased tenfold you'd wanna have LL again to prevent it.

Sublime logic, totally makes sense in your head I'm sure.

But I'm just considering the options (I had a consultation with Betz and I'll have one with Mahboubian) because:
1) I have extra money for this,
2) And have a job that gives me extra free time to do it.

But I'm not sure I'll do it. Now it's really a cosmetic thing. Before it was a necessity.

Are you sure you aren't convincing yourself? That's a lot of mental gymnastics, to deal with such an amount of cognitive dissonance. I hope you don't start throwing turd at me just because I considered your lofty endeavor from a different perspective.

[BetzLandLiberator]

How about DON'T SQUAT after extending 4 inches of a single damn bone!

Shows how much you don't understand about this. Squats and other compound exercises for the leg are the BEST things for any one after LL. It's one of the reasons my recovery was so good.

And don't be retarded, read what I said: I can Squat a lot and have pretty good form.
But now I have the body that is not optimized for squats.

Read a little bit about weightlifting and LL before freaking out as a little bitch.

[ZUCC420]

Shows how much you don't understand about this. Squats and other compound exercises for the leg are the BEST things for any one after LL. It's one of the reasons my recovery was so good.

And don't be retarded, read what I said: I can Squat a lot and have pretty good form.
But now I have the body that is not optimized for squats.

Read a little bit about weightlifting and LL before freaking out as a little bitch.

You:

[BetzLandLiberator]

And some people wonder why the majority of LL veterans do not bother writing a diary or writing in the forum... 

[ZUCC420]

And some people wonder why the majority of LL veterans do not bother writing a diary or writing in the forum... 

What a dubious insinuation, they don't because they've moved on from wasting countless hours in niche forums like this that doesn't encourage growth nor assuage indignance. The sole reason for such niche forums is to provide information pertaining to height and surgery so that it leads to life changing endeavors.

Post surgery most are too busy enjoying life while compartmentalizing any draw backs this surgery will inevitably bring about. While others such as yourself are too narcissistic to appreciate any increase in height (undertaking your body went through) that they'll abuse their body till their hearts content hitherto wind up reaping what you sow.

[BetzLandLiberator]

Post surgery most are too busy enjoying life while compartmentalizing any draw backs this surgery will inevitably bring about. While others such as yourself are too narcissistic to appreciate any increase in height (undertaking your body went through) that they'll abuse their body till their hearts content hitherto wind up reaping what you sow.

You are really jealous that I did what you will never have the courage to do, huh?
The level of projection in your attacks is amazing.

I've been enjoying my height immensely for the last 7 years and as I said, I don't NEED to do tibias - but now I have the extra money and time. It's an option. Something that you will never have because you're just a little coward too afraid to do even one LL and fix your problems.

And now you are bursting with rage that someone dares to do TWICE what you don't dare to do ONCE.

And if your consolation price for being a coward is that LL'ers will suffer "draw backs this surgery will inevitably bring about", I'm sorry to burst your bubble but most of us are doing great and we will keep doing great until we are in our 90s.

In my experience most people that actually do LL (unlike little bitches like you) tend to have a lot of discipline and they tend to workout and maintain their bodies in a much better shape than the average person.

We will be here enjoying our height and you will be still visiting forums, wishing some new LL technology will come so you can finally do it - which will never happen, because no technology can fix the fact that you are too afraid to fix you problem and too angry with people that actually do something about it. .

[ZUCC420]

You are really jealous that I did what you will never have the courage to do, huh?
The level of projection in your attacks is amazing.

I've been enjoying my height immensely for the last 7 years and as I said, I don't NEED to do tibias - but now I have the extra money and time. It's an option. Something that you will never have because you're just a little coward too afraid to do even one LL and fix your problems.

And now you are bursting with rage that someone dares to do TWICE what you don't dare to do ONCE.

And if your consolation price for being a coward is that LL'ers will suffer "draw backs this surgery will inevitably bring about", I'm sorry to burst your bubble but most of us are doing great and we will keep doing great until we are in our 90s.

In my experience most people that actually do LL (unlike little bitches like you) tend to have a lot of discipline and they tend to workout and maintain their bodies in a much better shape than the average person.

We will be here enjoying our height and you will be still visiting forums, wishing some new LL technology will come so you can finally do it - which will never happen, because no technology can fix the fact that you are too afraid to fix you problem and too angry with people that actually do something about it. .

All of your contention can be encapsulated into one word: PROJECTION

[BetzLandLiberator]

Lets see what you said in another topic:

I'll give it 10-13 years, in time will gather the money as well. I'm 5'5" with a long torso and short limbs, it seems people that are shorter than me have longer arms and legs. I think if I was "normal" proportioned I would've been 5'8.

I have reasons to believe there would be a breakthrough in a decade or less, like artificial cartilage implant and bone decalcification etc as evidenced from past and recent studies (sheeps had cartilage implant done successfully in the 90s).

Many of you are making it out to be Sci-Fi without doing any of research, so I'd suggest to stop being so ignorant and gloomy. LL should be a last resort (not worth it for normal short men), veterans can testify.

Well, nuff said. It's very clear that you're a little bitch too afraid to fix his own problems, someone who prefers to dream about sci-fi solutions instead of living today.

[ZUCC420]

Lets see what you said in another topic:

Well, nuff said. It's very clear that you're a little bitch too afraid to fix his own problems, someone who prefers to dream about sci-fi solutions instead of living today.

You're so ignorant and obnoxious that I won't waste any effort to set you straight, do whatever you like.

[soitchi]

You're so ignorant and obnoxious that I won't waste any effort to set you straight, do whatever you like.

Lol I tried to respect his experience but he really does come off like whatever he say can't be wrong but clearly he isn't all there in the head. The clown got CLL to lose his vcard lol guess all that gymceling wasn't working out for him.

It wasn't one of the reasons for my CLL, it is was THE REASON. When you are below the 5% in terms of height for a man (165cm or 5'5''in my case) it's really tough in the dating market.

Oh btw, if you ain't sore you ain't work out hard enough pal.

[BetzLandLiberator]

Oh btw, if you ain't sore you ain't work out hard enough pal.

Believe what you want believe dude. If you think breaking your legs and stretching them for months is just like having DOMS, fine. Keep thinking that.
You'll never know the answer anyway because: 1) you don't have money for LL; 2) even if you had, you don't have courage to do it.

[soitchi]

Believe what you want believe dude. If you think breaking your legs and stretching them for months is just like having DOMS, fine. Keep thinking that.
You'll never know the answer anyway because: 1) you don't have money for LL; 2) even if you had, you don't have courage to do it.

You’re assuming a lot there buddy. Nobody is saying it’s like DOMS, I’m suggesting to the idiots here to go work out and see if they can deal with even a few days of soreness before they jump in blind and break their legs. I got money and no need to do this surgery, no desire either especially after seeing all the mentally challenged people on this site, the misinformation and lames like you.

You got the courage to show your face to everyone here or let chicks know you got the surgery? Or are you one of those lames who want to hide and pretend they were never short after getting CLL?