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[Medium Drink Of Water]

It's theoretically possible for the fibula to get damaged.  In fact, that might be desirable if there's some tibia correction that needs to be done.  Maybe the tibia is straightened out while the fibula is left a bit warped/distorted so that the tibial correction could happen.

I think this might have actually happened to me.  I had duck feet before LL and they corrected that by twisting the tibias during the 2nd operation (frame removal and nail locking).  Most likely my fibulas are in an S shape now.

The fibulas are attached with two screws to the tibias - one near the ankle and one near the knee.

The fibula is not a necessary bone.  It doesn't do anything except maybe provide a little bit of stability.  You could be born without them and be fine.

[Uzair Sain]

What if you only did 5cm on tibia.
Do you still think you will have the same muscle problem or tiredness

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Probably not.  I think I should have done only 5 cm.

[ape]

Hi MDW, I read a lot of your comments on this site and see you advocating for purely external tibia. Who are the doctors that does external? I've read so many patient diaries and almost all of them are LON. The one that says external in the title is LON too.

Also, how long do you think the whole process(surgery day to walking normally) will be to get 2cm?

[kats20]

I appreciate this diary as I think it highlights the importance of keeping to a 'safe' amount on tibias. It seems that damage after 4-5cm is exponential.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Hi MDW, I read a lot of your comments on this site and see you advocating for purely external tibia. Who are the doctors that does external? I've read so many patient diaries and almost all of them are LON. The one that says external in the title is LON too.

Any doctor who offers LON can do external-only.  They just have to not put the nail in; everything else is the same.

Also, how long do you think the whole process(surgery day to walking normally) will be to get 2cm?

Dr. Mitkovic originally told me 9 months for 7.5 cm external-only, so I guess about 2.5 months based on that.

I appreciate this diary as I think it highlights the importance of keeping to a 'safe' amount on tibias. It seems that damage after 4-5cm is exponential.

Yeah back in 2007 10 cm was a lot but doable, 7.5 cm was average and reasonable, and 5 cm was highly conservative.

[kats20]

do you think that shortening would alleviate most of your problems? I guess it's comforting to know that the procedure is reversible in a sense......

Like I said I appreciate how honest you are being.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

I think it probably would.  My problems aren't really that bad or keeping me from doing ordinary things.  A while ago I spent an entire day walking and hiking in a mountain park.

I really don't want to get that delicate, scarred skin cut open again, or pay for another surgery, or lose the height.

But it's something I've considered and might do if I ever start to have worse issues.

[ghkid2019]

Hey mdow, do you really think stryde is a game changer? Weight bearing increases bone growth? Would you have done stryde on your Tibias for it's easier process and rehab even knowing that internals can cause knee pain

[IwannaBeTaller]

I appreciate this diary as I think it highlights the importance of keeping to a 'safe' amount on tibias. It seems that damage after 4-5cm is exponential.

To be fair, we'd have to have a 'control group' of the same person who didn't do surgery and the physical grievances he would have. Pains and discomforts with one's body increase as one gets older.

[kats20]

I mean, yeah, if it was a scientifically rigorous study you would have a control group. But people who want to do crazy amounts of lengthening just seem to have a hard time accepting the anecdotal evidence that lengthening more than 4-5cm seems to lead to difficulties.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Hey mdow, do you really think stryde is a game changer? Weight bearing increases bone growth? Would you have done stryde on your Tibias for it's easier process and rehab even knowing that internals can cause knee pain

It's certainly the best device, but not a game changer.  It is an incremental improvement over previous devices.  I bore weight on the Ilizarov frames and fixed-length internal nails and never had issues with bone growth.  None of my present concerns would be different right now with Stryde.

What I'd do differently if I had it to do over again is do 5 cm on externals only, or do internal femurs.

[ghkid2019]

Thanks for the response.

Would you ever advocate for internal tibias? Do you think the knee pain will affect someone's quality of life massively in their day to day?

[Medium Drink Of Water]

There are other options so I'd never advocate for it.

It doesn't affect my quality of life massively, not yet anyway.  I'm pretty sure it's tendonitis, which some people might not even get if they have the procedure.  My body has a very strong inflammatory response in general.

[ghkid2019]

There are other options so I'd never advocate for it.

It doesn't affect my quality of life massively, not yet anyway.  I'm pretty sure it's tendonitis, which some people might not even get if they have the procedure.  My body has a very strong inflammatory response in general.

Thanks MDOW. Really good to have a veteran consistently still visit and help us newbies.

What hypothetical "additional" side effects do you have from doing 7.5cm versus if you had just done 5cm. Of course this is hard to answer as you never did 5cm, but a guess would be great.


And what are the exact negative parts of your knee? Like does it hurt alot when you kneel on the floor, does putting your other leg on your knee like how some people rest like this hurt: https://imagesvc.meredithcorp.io/v3/mm/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.hellogiggles.com%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F01%2F25091715%2FGettyImages-462915449.jpg
Does this hurt your knee? What if you lay down and do that?

Sorry for all these questions, thanks MDOW.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

What hypothetical "additional" side effects do you have from doing 7.5cm versus if you had just done 5cm. Of course this is hard to answer as you never did 5cm, but a guess would be great.

Nothing aside from the issues with the tibialis anterior muscles that I've talked about.  The tendons, specifically the Achilles, came out of it fine.  I know not everyone's do.  I can touch the floor with my fingertips while my knees are locked, in shoes.

And what are the exact negative parts of your knee? Like does it hurt alot when you kneel on the floor, does putting your other leg on your knee like how some people rest like this hurt: https://imagesvc.meredithcorp.io/v3/mm/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.hellogiggles.com%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F01%2F25091715%2FGettyImages-462915449.jpg
Does this hurt your knee? What if you lay down and do that?

It's tender and sensitive when I kneel on the floor.  Sometimes it feels clunky, like how I imagine the knee joint of a stiff suit of medieval armor might feel, when I move it.  No problem kneeling on soft things like a bed.  Crossing my legs like in that picture doesn't bother me at all.

[ghkid2019]

Hi MDOW. This is a highly opinionated question, so I want YOUR own opinion. Is wingspan to height ratio overrated?

 How much taller (or shorter) are you than your wingspan- and what's your honest opinion on the maximum limit of difference between wingspan and height where it still looks fine and not too weird. Obviously this is HIGHLY subjective, but I want your true honest thoughts.

Thank MDOW.

also is torso to height ratio proportions overrated in YOUR opinion.

Thanks bro

[Medium Drink Of Water]

It's hard to say because every ratio matters to some extent, and they affect each other.  I used to look weird with my long neck, but lengthening the tibias actually helped me out aesthetically.  Right now my armspan to height ratio is 1:1.

[a]

Hello, Medium Drink Of Water.

Unfortunately, I've got a lot of questions and I hope you have time to enlighten me.

I've already made a post about that but It didn't take much attention, so let me copy and paste the question here.

"The question is:

Let's give an example, a lot of people who had have the surgery on FEMURS, also thinking of doing it on tibias again.

Did you all get back to your daily rutine with no problems at all, and considering more cencimeters to look "better"
or is it just, you've already lost some ability to run and walk properly, and saying "f--- it, i'll also go on tibias since i've already lost my ability. I got nothing to lose."

That's insanely important for me, because I want to have 2 seperated surgeries and I want to know If people could get back to their rutine with zero problems, zero problems on running, stairs etc.

If people have lost their ability and say YOLO and go for another 5cm, I won't consider having 2 surgeries.

Also, is it possible to bend your knees 180 degrees after 2 surgeries?
7 cm on femurs and 5 on tibias."

[Sweden]

A: There will always be some sort of problems. You do a extreme surgery. You will always feel it a little bit, if everything turns out the best.

You can do sports and everything. It will never be as easy as before the surgeries.

[a]

I know, but that's the thing.

As your signature says, you are also thinking of going for another 5 centimeters on femurs.
Is that because the surgery itself was OK and very worthy, or do you feel like you lost some abilities and you don't care anymore?

[Sweden]

I know, but that's the thing.

As your signature says, you are also thinking of going for another 5 centimeters on femurs.
Is that because the surgery itself was OK and very worthy, or do you feel like you lost some abilities and you don't care anymore?

I compete as a pro athlete again. Next year I was chosen for the world championships. Yes I feel soreness in my knees everyday but I can still be competitive, something I never thought was possible before the surgery.

I’m thinking of ~4cm. Quick and easy. Then I’ll be 184cm tall and I think it’ll be great.

But if I do it I’ll ruin my career that I’ve worked so hard for so it won’t happen within the next 4-5 years at least, if I ever do it.
180cm is not that much here in Sweden. You begin to be tall around 185cm.

I’m happier than ever before, but my dream height has always been 184cm.

[a]

I compete as a pro athlete again. Next year I was chosen for the world championships. Yes I feel soreness in my knees everyday but I can still be competitive, something I never thought was possible before the surgery.

I’m thinking of ~4cm. Quick and easy. Then I’ll be 184cm tall and I think it’ll be great.

But if I do it I’ll ruin my career that I’ve worked so hard for so it won’t happen within the next 4-5 years at least, if I ever do it.
180cm is not that much here in Sweden. You begin to be tall around 185cm.

I’m happier than ever before, but my dream height has always been 184cm.

Is there a way to fix the soreness for the eternity somehow?

edit:

Forgot to say, I think If you've gone for 5 cm instead of 7, you could have been better now.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Hello, Medium Drink Of Water.

Unfortunately, I've got a lot of questions and I hope you have time to enlighten me.

I've already made a post about that but It didn't take much attention, so let me copy and paste the question here.

"The question is:

Let's give an example, a lot of people who had have the surgery on FEMURS, also thinking of doing it on tibias again.

Did you all get back to your daily rutine with no problems at all, and considering more cencimeters to look "better"
or is it just, you've already lost some ability to run and walk properly, and saying "f--- it, i'll also go on tibias since i've already lost my ability. I got nothing to lose."

That's insanely important for me, because I want to have 2 seperated surgeries and I want to know If people could get back to their rutine with zero problems, zero problems on running, stairs etc.

If people have lost their ability and say YOLO and go for another 5cm, I won't consider having 2 surgeries.

Also, is it possible to bend your knees 180 degrees after 2 surgeries?
7 cm on femurs and 5 on tibias."

I didn't have two surgeries, so I don't have an answer for that specifically.  But after doing one surgery, I'm mostly recovered to the strength, agility, athleticism, etc that I had before.

[ghkid2019]

MDOW, you understand basal metabolic rate right? The amount of calories we burn just existing. Like a 6'0 man would naturally just burn more calories from existing than a 5'6 man.

Do you think your BMR has gone up from 5'7 man to a 5'10 man? Or would it just be a 5'7 man plus a tiny bit of extra BMR from the tibias.

Thank you. Obviously hard to measure, but I would consider questions like, could you eat more now than you did before LL and gain less weight?

[Medium Drink Of Water]

About the same as beore but with extra BMR for the tibias.  This didn't change the rest of me at all.

[a]

Hello,
 
How exactly does our skin stretch and grow with your bones? When you get the surgery done, would the skin be more tight and understandable that you did something to your knees or your skin?
or is it just as same as before except the scars?

Best Regards

[Medium Drink Of Water]

New skin cells grow, so it is not tight like you have a suit of skin your old size stretched over your longer legs.

[a]

Thanks,

I've always worried about it although I've seen a lot of pictures of patients post LL and none of them had a tight looking skin. But still, was concerned.

Best Regards

[drxboom]

Hello mdow

l have ll surgery in a few months ut I am worried, I do not know much about those who had this surgery and were disabled. What is the injury rate is this surgery?
is it worth breaking a leg to be 170 to 178.
Thanks in advice

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Different doctors have different complication rates.

It was worth it to me, at least at the time.