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[Sanity]

Hello MDOW. How do you and/or your friends feel about your tibias when sitting while tibias are exactly perpendicular to the floor on a chair?
Did you try experimenting with different clothing techniques to reduce the super-long look at that angle?

[mailaozu]

Hi! its been some years since your surgery. How is your life so far? Do you still feel any pain in your legs some time? What are the difference in your legs before and after op? thank you so much

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Hello MDOW. How do you and/or your friends feel about your tibias when sitting while tibias are exactly perpendicular to the floor on a chair?
Did you try experimenting with different clothing techniques to reduce the super-long look at that angle?

Nobody's noticed anything while sitting yet, interestingly.  I hardly ever sit like that because it puts a lot of pressure on my feet.  I usually put the shins at an angle.

One person noticed my standing knee height but chalked up to genetic differences.  I think the knowledge that you had LL or the presence of scars might make people think something happened surgically.

I was kind of surprised that pants don't seem to be an issue at all.  The place where the knee seems to be intended to go by the designer is usually right around where my knee is.  Pants fit me a lot better than they ever did.  One of the reasons, in fact the final straw that broke the camel's back and started my LL journey, was clothing.  There was a pair of pants I liked so much... 

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Hi! its been some years since your surgery. How is your life so far? Do you still feel any pain in your legs some time? What are the difference in your legs before and after op? thank you so much

My life is all right.  I'm happier with myself and my place in the world now.  I don't think I'd have that same level of contentment if I'd stayed shorter.  This was a permanent improvement and not temporary relief from a temporary, imagined fixation that wouldn't help me at all.  It certainly did not fix every issue I had in life, nor did I expect it to.

My knees are sensitive right where the doctor opened them up to insert the nails.  I don't notice it unless I kneel, but they're very sensitive if I'm kneeling on a hard surface.  Soft surfaces, no problem though.

The legs feel a bit stiff sometimes.  Unrelated to that, the tibialis anterior muscles are quite weak and get tired easily.  I think the other calf muscles actually were able to grow enough and adapt to the new biomechanics, but not those.  A new discovery as previously I've just told people on here that the legs are weaker, but I've isolated the problem to those muscles based on practicing certain movements that use thsoe heavily and those that don't use them much.

[184dream]

I am concidering ll i have one question my friend
After 20 year or 15 yrs of lenthening may i encounter muscle stiffness or different sensation in posterior vs interior muscles of tibia does it feel normal seriously thanks in advance sorry for my poor english.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

I don't notice a difference in sensation.

More stiffness in the posterior/lateral muscles of the calf.  Not much stiffness in front, but those muscles (tibialis anterior) didn't develop enough size/strength to handle the new bone length, so they get tired easily.  I had a fasciotomy on the tibialis anterior muscles, and this helped some.

[james696969]

Why didn't you do femurs?

[Megaman(blueboy)]

Would you say it's harder to put on muscle on your tibia and femur after the surgery? Would you recommend putting on muscle before getting them done?

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Why didn't you do femurs?

Do you mean instead of or after?

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Would you say it's harder to put on muscle on your tibia and femur after the surgery? Would you recommend putting on muscle before getting them done?

It's easier to put on muscle after the surgery because your legs have to work so much harder to perform the same movements.  I have big, thick calves now.  Used to have skinny ones.

The problem with putting on muscle before surgery is that your muscles will resist the action of the device, possibly leading to misalignment.  The guys with thick legs at Guang Ji hospital were generally in more pain than everyone else that whole time, and they told people skinny is better.

But Dr. Guichet wants patients to put on muscle, or at least be strong and muscular before surgery; I speculate that he is afraid people will lengthen more than their muscles can catch up with long after LL.  This is what went wrong with my tibialis anterior muscles.  If I'd had to perform well physically in order to justify more lengthening, I wouldn't have been able to do as much.  The approach of stretching out my skinny legs so much while I lay in bed all day caused my exertional compartment syndrome and the fasciotomy surgery 2-3 years after LL.

[james696969]

Instead, afaik femur recovery for 7 cm would be even better?

[lelouche]

Do you know your time for sprinting 0-100 meters?

I did my 7cm on tibias in 2013 and have now achieved the highest level of competitive martial arts - for men in my age(40+).

Of course I have aches and pain many days, but in 2 weeks I’ll be competing in European Championships! I’m just so happy to be “back in the game” again. I’ve achieved more than I ever thought was possible after having done LL, especially with my kind of complications.

do you still have pain? I am planning to do 6.5 or 7cm in my tibias (femur is already a bit long) But do not want to loose my athleticism (19 years old).

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Instead, afaik femur recovery for 7 cm would be even better?

I told Professor Xia that I wanted 7.5 cm and was open to either.  He recommended tibias, probably because it's less painful and difficult to do externals on them, and he only offers externals.  He was also of the opinion that most short people have disproportionately short tibias.  It said that (and probably still does on the institute's website if it's still up); but I don't know if that's really true or not.

[james696969]

What's your sitting height and has that been a problem? Mine is like 85 cm and I'm worried that I'll look weird at 175 cm or beyond and it makes 180 out of the question although I'd be ecstatic to reach it. Hopefully working glutes can make me reach 87 cm of it.

[Sanity]

Hello mdow. at my xray place they have some magnification of the xrays around (10-15%) so it makes a 5cm distraction appear like a 5.8cm distraction. did u ever ask about if there was any magnification. also wat other reliable methods u were using to get very accurate down to the cm's. even measuring on the stadiometre at morning and night will give different results because spines shrink by 0.5-1 inch by bedtime.  Wat i mean is like know fr sure it was 7.5cm instead of 7cm or even 6.5cm.  ur info cud be helpful to me aswell. thanks.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

What's your sitting height and has that been a problem? Mine is like 85 cm and I'm worried that I'll look weird at 175 cm or beyond and it makes 180 out of the question although I'd be ecstatic to reach it. Hopefully working glutes can make me reach 87 cm of it.

I don't know my sitting height.  It's not something I ever considered.  Other factors affect how much you can get away with lengthening as well.  Dr. Mitkovic mentioned that broad hands will help - just having big gorilla paws will make elongated tibias seem less noticeable.  I'm sure there are other things as well.  So proportionality is just one of those things you have to eyeball.

Hello mdow. at my xray place they have some magnification of the xrays around (10-15%) so it makes a 5cm distraction appear like a 5.8cm distraction. did u ever ask about if there was any magnification. also wat other reliable methods u were using to get very accurate down to the cm's. even measuring on the stadiometre at morning and night will give different results because spines shrink by 0.5-1 inch by bedtime.  Wat i mean is like know fr sure it was 7.5cm instead of 7cm or even 6.5cm.  ur info cud be helpful to me aswell. thanks.

I never asked about magnification, but I'm sure they knew about it and knew how to correct for it.  They always were doing some calculations with a calculator or with pencil and paper when doing my x-rays and giving me my progress reports.  I just used measuring tape on the wall other than that, and when I got back I was 3 inches taller on my wall at home that I had marked from 5'6 to 6'0.  I don't know if it was exactly 7.5 cm or not that I gained, but it was close.  Orthopedic surgeons are quite good at what they do, even in non-1st world places.

[184dream]

hi medium drink of water thanks for answering my previous question do you recommend doing more than 5 cm for tibia or femur in the prospective of tendon and aging or from what you see does it the right thing to concider .now  i am saving . what do you mean by get tired easily if concidering daily activites does it bother you every day and night . feel free to answer any time  sorry for my poor english   

[Medium Drink Of Water]

hi medium drink of water thanks for answering my previous question do you recommend doing more than 5 cm for tibia or femur in the prospective of tendon and aging

The less you do the better.  Best for all of us not to do the surgery at all, right?

But if you're going to do more than 5 cm on a bone, it should probably be femur.  They have more biological infrastructure around them - thicker tendons, more blood supply, bigger muscles, etc.  I think the thighs can better handle the increased bone length.

what do you mean by get tired easily if concidering daily activites does it bother you every day and night . feel free to answer any time  sorry for my poor english

By get tired easily, I mean it's harder to perform those movements, so the muscles get fatigued.  I need to stop and rest more often.  Lengthening a limb makes it more difficult to move that limb; this is a property of physics that applies to any object.  So it's harder work for me to walk now because of the longer tibias.

Imagine being a weak person who can't get any stronger through exercise.  That's what I experience with my tibialis anterior muscles.  They can't grow any more.  They can't get any stronger than they are now.

It doesn't bother me often.  I don't live a very active lifestyle anyway.  Not before LL and not now.

[JohnSmith]

Hello,

I have two more questions:

1. You said your knees are still sensitive on hard surfaces. Do you feel any pain in your knees from high impact like from running, jump rope, hiking, and/or climbing stairs? Are they sensitive enough where it hurts to sit Indian style or stretch?

2. I'm hoping to do 10cm, 5 in femur, 5 in tibia. I'm also considering to do humerus lengthening in my arm as well to match my new proportions. What's your opinion on that? Would you do that or am I overthinking my future proportions?

Thanks for answering my questions!

[Kal el]

Hey johnsmith bro..whr u frm and what are ur current body stats and measurements.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Do you feel any pain in your knees from high impact like from running, jump rope, hiking, and/or climbing stairs? Are they sensitive enough where it hurts to sit Indian style or stretch?

No to all of the above.

I'm hoping to do 10cm, 5 in femur, 5 in tibia.

Sounds reasonable.  I probably would've gone to Betz and done exactly that if I'd been rich in 2007.

I'm also considering to do humerus lengthening in my arm as well to match my new proportions. What's your opinion on that? Would you do that or am I overthinking my future proportions?

You might not need to.  An armspan a few cm shorter than your new height would probably be acceptable.  Maybe do the 5 cm on femurs first and then see what your armspan/height ratio looks like once you get to 3cm on tibias, and decide from there?

[Sanity]

hello mdow. 1 illazarov frame just came off from 1 of my tibias after almost a year. i have come to realize i just cannot flex my knees fully. I can extend them completely but there is good 40-50 degree i just cannot go beyond during flexion. this has really worried me. did u have this??

[Medium Drink Of Water]

I did not have that issue.

[184dream]

Medium drink of water
You knew the old forum can you please tell me about doctors  i should avoid like yours about dr yaser and sarin the butcher
Can you give me a suggestion of cheaper doctor than paley in china india or greece as the cost is a major concern
Thank in advance

[Medium Drink Of Water]

I remember reading some horror stories there from Armenia and Iran.  I don't remember the doctors' names though.  It was too long ago.

I don't know what's going on in China right now.  It's probably not a good idea to go there anymore.  When the Beijing Institute of External Fixation existed, it was headed by Dr. Hetao Xia with Dr. Gang Li as his partner, and Dr. Aiming Peng as the younger surgeon who was doing most of the work and gradually taking over the practice.  It had the government's permission to operate and had lots of foreign patients who had contacts outside the place.  Now those doctors aren't even practicing in the same cities anymore.  If they're still doing LL it's with less openness and accountability, and without the support system of multiple qualified doctors in a large, dedicated facility like they used to have.

Drs. Parihar and Shah in India seem good from what I've heard.  Dr. Giotikas in Greece also seems to be getting good outcomes from patients on here.  Dr. Catagni in Italy has been practicing for a long time without any bad results I know of.  So look into them, keeping in mind that just because I haven't heard about bad outcomes from them doesn't mean there aren't any.

[Ostentician]

Hey. What kind of advice would you give a 16 year old who's planning on saving up for this surgery and doing it? Anything exercise related, savings related or health related?

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Nothing other than the obvious: be as flexible as possible, get plenty of money somehow, and be in good health.

[V]

Well, you did the LL surgery in 2007 and its 2020 now, so after those long 13 years do you feel like your legs are in good health for your current age or do you have the feeling that your legs are like 10+ years older then the rest of your body?

[Medium Drink Of Water]

No, I don't feel like they're as healthy as the rest of my body:

They're stiff and I feel like I've reached maximum flexibility with them.
They get tired easier than I think they should/would without LL.
The skin looks a little bit splotchy and veiny, especially over the tibialis anterior muscles, and is injured more easily and takes longer to heal.  I bumped my shin two years ago (spring 2018) and broke the skin, and I can still see the mark.  If that had been on my arm, no way would it show right now.

[V]

No, I don't feel like they're as healthy as the rest of my body:

They're stiff and I feel like I've reached maximum flexibility with them.
They get tired easier than I think they should/would without LL.
The skin looks a little bit splotchy and veiny, especially over the tibialis anterior muscles, and is injured more easily and takes longer to heal.  I bumped my shin two years ago (spring 2018) and broke the skin, and I can still see the mark.  If that had been on my arm, no way would it show right now.

Thank you so much for this answer, I appreciate the fact that you took the time to write that! You're experience helps out alot of people you dont even understand.

[staytall]

Hi Medium,
For tibia lengthening , is there any danger the fibula can get damaged? What is fixating it? From animations online of the nail procedure, the fibula is fractured so it can lengthen along with the tibia. Thanks in advance.