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Author Topic: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)  (Read 7940 times)

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TruthBomber

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f you want a leg lengthening alternative for 1-2 inches, go to Melbourne, Florida. An orthopedic surgeon there wrote a paper describing how using a muscle relaxer, a spine stretching treatment, and then stabilizing the elongated spine, you can add an inch or two of height. This was in relation to a functional procedure, but the author makes it clear that the height gain can also be achieved for purely cosmetic reasons.

Doctor’s name is Richard Hyne, B.A.C.K. Center, Melbourne FL.

Here’s the paper:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20090093852


Of interest are paragraphs 40- 70; below I highlight key info in paragraphs 43,44 and 61

Other important considerations in the procedure are the state of the patient's spine at the time of the procedure. For example, if the procedure is performed in the morning, as opposed to latter in the day, the patient may end up with a different height, as disc height is greatest in the morning after a night of sleep due to increased fluid intake, and decreases with axial loading throughout the day. As such, in some embodiments at least the disc treatment portions of the procedure may be performed in the morning shortly after awakening to facilitate increased height of disc fill, for example. This aspect is further refined by the addition of pre-procedure muscle relaxation with intravenous or intramuscular injection of approved pharmaceuticals, e.g., robaxin, skelaxin, soma, etc. In other embodiments, use of paralyzing agents with general anesthesia may be used for more rigid or stiff patients. Use of SSEP (Somatosensory evoked potential) monitoring may be employed to protect the patient against over distraction or correction, elongation or shortening of the spine resulting in spinal cord injury or other nerve injury.
To this end, traction, bracing, suspension, inversion tables, therapy, muscle relaxants, chiropractic adjustments, etc. may be used to advantageously place the spine in the desired position prior to the procedure, at Block 112. Moreover, medication such as ligament relaxors (e.g., relaxin) may also be used to achieve natural elongation of the spine before the procedures, and after as well, to achieve the desired axial height increase/stability.
In another example, a 45-year-old man, who is 5 feet 4 and has always desired greater height, asks his doctor if there is any way to “safely” be taller. The patient would enter index determination, pre-procedure stretching, traction medical muscle and/or ligament relaxor treatment, etc. After a desired elongation (e.g., 1-2 inches) through this pre-treatment, an early morning procedure may be performed to stabilize the appropriate anatomic structures, namely disc and facet joints, and interspinous ligaments (but not vertebral bodies) to maintain this increased height gain. If at some later point in his life it is determined that he is at risk for fractures, then the vertebral bodies could be subsequently stabilized.
The author states in easily comprehensible terms that a 45 year old man can use a muscle relaxer to increase his height by 1-2 inches. It would of course have to be in conjunction with stretching, traction, and the actual surgical treatment, but afterwards, you would end up maybe 1.5 inches taller after maybe 3 days of hospital stay. Much, much faster than any type of limb lengthening surgery today.



To those who believe this would only work on old people who’s spines have shrunk with age, and is just undoing that process, look up at what age Men start to shrink and the rate of shrinkage.

For the lazy:
Age Men start to shrink: anywhere between age of 35-50
Rate of shrinkage: no more than an inch every 10 years

If the man in the example within the paper were to have started shrinking at the earliest age (unlikely, as the paper says he’s always wanted to be taller, **not that he recently shrunk**), this means he would have lost **at most 1 inch of height** as he’s 45. And the paper clearly states he would increase his height anywhere between 1-2 inches!

To put it more simply for the mathematically challenged:
At age 45 it’s highly unlikely for you to have lost height from a shrunken spine significantly—no more than 1 inch at most. And yet the paper says the 45 year old can gain 1-2 inches of height, so at the very least, 1 inch of height should be attainable pre-spinal-shrinkage, as in, at any age (obviously you should wait until you’re done growing though).

And for those wondering: Since this is solely focused on the spine/torso, it can presumably be done *in addition* to leg lengthening. So if you were planning on adding 3 inches with leg lengthening, you can very likely add 4-5 inches total to your height, if you were to undergo this procedure as well. This procedure would also help out those worried about proportions after leg lengthening, as it would lengthen your torso 1-2 inches.

I haven’t gone because I don’t have that as a priority (would need to fix my scoliosis first, presumably) but by all means, if you are wanting to grow an inch or two... go to Florida, ASAP because this doctor looks old and who knows when he’ll retire.
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CodyTheDog

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2019, 03:06:09 PM »

Well, now we just need someone willing to try out changing their spine to get diaries.

Aside from leg lengthening, there is inserting something at the bottoms of your foot (doesn't sound appealing) or I guess now there is this thing you are mentioning. Astronauts grow slightly in space from the spine decompressing slightly though it goes back to normal afterwards so I guess I'm not that optimistic but maybe I'm wrong?
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TruthBomber

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2019, 01:02:24 PM »

Only 1 reply? So...we are just going to pretend this does not exist or...?  :-\
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Iron_Man

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2019, 01:36:41 PM »

I think, 1-2 inches in the spine along with legs lengthening looks very attractive.
Is this an expensive procedure?
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ThickButt

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2019, 01:04:54 AM »

Only 1 reply? So...we are just going to pretend this does not exist or...?  :-\

No, I totally agree. This is a game changer. One thing to note, is that the taller you are, the more your spine can theoretically decompress. If you start at 5’7” your upper limit might be 2-3 inches.

Anyways, have you had any luck contacting Dr. Hynes? I’ve tried calling his office but I never get a response.
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ThickButt

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2019, 01:15:05 AM »

I think, 1-2 inches in the spine along with legs lengthening looks very attractive.
Is this an expensive procedure?

Spinal fusion surgery is one of the most difficult and dangerous surgeries from what i understand and the price for that is about $30k?

The patent makes it clear that this is a minimally invasive, easy procedure, so I can’t imagine it costing more than spinal fusion surgery.

The challenge is getting in touch with Dr. Hayes, let alone convincing him to do it. It seems to me that Spine specialists are very risk adverse
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taller2018

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2019, 07:13:49 PM »

Has he actually done this on anyone before and is this even regulated? I've never heard of this procedure, but if its possible it would be a dream come true. 1-2 inches on torso and 2-3 on legs thats a 5 inch gain. From your link though, it really seems like just a study and it says the patent was abandoned this year.
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ThickButt

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2019, 08:09:09 PM »

Has he actually done this on anyone before and is this even regulated? I've never heard of this procedure, but if its possible it would be a dream come true. 1-2 inches on torso and 2-3 on legs thats a 5 inch gain. From your link though, it really seems like just a study and it says the patent was abandoned this year.

No, to my knowledge this is just a study. The patent application was abandoned due to “failure by office to respond” or something.

I don’t think the patent abandonment is necessarily an indication that the procedure wouldn’t work. I think it’s more an indication of market. He probably realized very quickly that proactive spinal treatments are a tough sell, let alone cosmetic treatments.

I think the only way to make this happen is something along these lines:
1. Be a high net worth individual
2. Fly to Florida and do an in person meeting
3. Convince the doc to try/explore the procedure (pay him?)
4. Do the procedure once he’s developed/tested it

In all seriousness, that’s probably the only way this is happening. Otherwise there’s just too much risk + too little money in cosmetic spine treatments for him to try this otherwise.
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taller2018

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2019, 08:54:13 AM »

Actually, I think there could be a market for this kind of procedure, and I'm not just talking about the people on this forum. Think about it , there are so many weird surgical procedures in this world and they still have a market. The reason most people are against limb lengthening in the first place is because of so many things, time, cost, stigma, recovery etc and its all very understandable. But when you say there is this new treatment that is minimally invasive and could get you 2 inches without taking at least a full year to walk properly again, I do think that is quite significant.

By the way, I've read reviews on B.A.C.K center and the reviews are absolutely s hit  .
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TruthBomber

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2019, 11:40:44 AM »

Bumping this
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Infinity

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2019, 01:44:42 PM »

This will be an interesting topic, i also posted a similar topic some time ago.

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=2938.msg45375#msg45375

it would be good to combine the two topics and make some research on it.
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..

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2020, 10:31:41 PM »

Is there any update on this?
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Cpl2012

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2020, 10:46:25 PM »

I don’t think i wana mess with my spine though.
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elvergalarga

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2020, 06:26:04 AM »

Hi some news??
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..

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2020, 07:50:35 AM »

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..

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2020, 11:19:59 PM »

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a

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2020, 11:47:43 PM »

This legit seems risky af.
and I think messing up with your spines is way more dangerous and extreme than messing with your legs.

Regards
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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2020, 12:00:17 AM »

This legit seems risky af.
and I think messing up with your spines is way more dangerous and extreme than messing with your legs.

Regards

We don't know yet if they will really 'mess up' with our spines. It's not even for cosmetic purposes initially, but functional.
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Megaman(blueboy)

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2020, 02:42:22 AM »

I'm so for this, hopefully he gets it done soon.
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Antoine

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2020, 03:53:25 PM »

Until this treatment is completed we should focus on this, I guess: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=4253.0

I still don’t understand why we haven’t a treatment like this to lengthen the spine. It would be the easiest and safest way to gain some height. We don’t even need to go through a real surgery, they just insert a needle in your back and fill the spinal discs with gel. As the site says, it is “a very simple surgical procedure. It only requires a small area of local anaesthesia. It does not require general anaesthesia or stressful medicinal complimentary therapy.“
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..

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2020, 08:09:44 PM »

Until this treatment is completed we should focus on this, I guess: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=4253.0

I still don’t understand why we haven’t a treatment like this to lengthen the spine. It would be the easiest and safest way to gain some height. We don’t even need to go through a real surgery, they just insert a needle in your back and fill the spinal discs with gel. As the site says, it is “a very simple surgical procedure. It only requires a small area of local anaesthesia. It does not require general anaesthesia or stressful medicinal complimentary therapy.“

I don't understand much, but that does sound dangerous to me.
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Antoine

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2020, 09:56:03 PM »

I’m not a doctor, but I think it isn’t as dangerous as it may seem. According to the site, “The disc compartment is punctured with a small hollow needle, monitored by x-ray. The very thin synthetic disc stick only a few millimetres long are then inserted through this needle. The correct position inside the disc is also monitored by x-ray. The typical procedure lasts about 10-20 minutes.”
I guess the real issue is: does this procedure really add millimeters of height to healthy discs?
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ThickButt

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2020, 07:54:23 AM »

I’m not a doctor, but I think it isn’t as dangerous as it may seem. According to the site, “The disc compartment is punctured with a small hollow needle, monitored by x-ray. The very thin synthetic disc stick only a few millimetres long are then inserted through this needle. The correct position inside the disc is also monitored by x-ray. The typical procedure lasts about 10-20 minutes.”
I guess the real issue is: does this procedure really add millimeters of height to healthy discs?

I actually did a ton of research on this. Not an expert, but here's my 2c

These injection treatments are designed to restore vertebral height lost from degenerative disk disease (DDD). At best, this is a couple millimeters and is typically done to affected disks only. For obvious reasons, there isn't any research (as far as I could find) about what happens if you reverse intervertebral disk height (IDH) loss beyond the original loss amount. What little I could find however, seemed to indicate that expanding IDH beyond original levels increased the risk of future DDD in adjacent sections due to mechanical changes in the distribution of stress and pressure along the spine. Additionally, it seemed that expanding IDH beyond original height increased the risk of disk herniation (basically disk popping and oozing, super painful) due to increased outward pressure on the walls of the disk.

So theoretically, yes, you can add a few mm to each disk along the entire length of the spine. At best, you are looking at a half inch to an inch of improvement in exchange for increased herniation risk for all disks of the spine, with risk compounding with each disk you "inflate".

If you have access to regular monitoring to determine the health of the disk walls and stress distribution along the spine, it might be viable. But I don't see any surgeon okaying this lol, at least not in the US.

The only way I could really find that could work is very costly and experimental. You'd basically have to undergo targeted disk replacement/fusion. Finding vertebrae along the thoracic portion where changes would result in the smallest load effect. You would remove the disk and replace it with a bone graft and a specially made distraction device. Over a fairly short period, you would distract the desired/safe length and then the two vertebrae would fuse. The additional space added through distraction = total height gained.

I had some concerns regarding the stretching of nerves, but I found a NASA study on astronauts spinal health during long term missions where their spines would lengthen/decompress up to 2-3 inches. The study explored back pain experienced by astronauts when they returned to Earth. In all cases, the back pain was the result of back muscle atrophy, not nerve issues. As far as I could tell, the spinal nerve was more than able to stretch for long periods of time with seemingly no adverse effect on the astronaut. That said, I couldn't find any research about what happens if you isolate the stretch along a small portion of the spinal nerve. (For example, stretching 2-3 inches between 3 adjacent vertebrae instead of 2-3 inches along the whole spine).

Review of questions that need to be answered/researched:
1. What would be the effect of basically adding an extra 1-3 inches between the T12/L1 vertebrae?
2. How would back muscles and spinal ligaments adjust? Could they adjust? (Especially concerned about ligaments, they're not meant to stretch very far)
3. How much mobility is lost through the process? I've read about T12/L1 area fusion and it seems like athletes are generally able to return to normal function. Issues really only start if you're messing with the lower vertebrae.
4. Can the spinal cord and nerves stretch that distance? (I think the cord would just move further along the sleeve, but that still leaves the nerves)
5. Facet joints will need to be fused as well.
6. Take questions 1-5 and apply them to the cervical spine.
7. How to design the device?
8. How to fund a device?
9. How, who, and where could this treatment possibly be tried? 

So in summary this treatment is technically possible. Portions of the proposed solution have already been tried and tested in a mix of different DDD treatments. It would be a question of combining some techniques and prototyping a new device. Essentially a spine version of the Stryde nail.

But it's a high-risk, fringe treatment with limited ROI potential for doctors and device manufacturers. The only hope for this is, in my eyes, is a very wealthy person with height neurosis decides to undergo the process of R&D, testing, and treatment, be it here in the states, or maybe in a place like China.

Anyways, this turned out a lot longer than I thought lol, got carried away. But I will do a follow-up or edit with citations with relevant studies if I have the time and/or people have the interest. Would love to continue to explore this with other interest "researchers" as a nice quarantine side project if anyone is interested! #Shorttorsogang
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Antoine

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2020, 03:27:42 PM »

Thanks ThickButt, you’re so inspiring! I really appreciated what you wrote. Let us know if you find something else.
In the meanwhile, I’d like to draw your attention to this: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20615252/.
It says that non-surgical spinal decompression increased the height of lumbar degenerated discs from 7.5 mm to 8.8 mm (1.3 mm increase).
If by hypothesis similar results could be achieved also for non-degenerated discs in the entire spine, people could grow at least 1 inch repeating non-surgical decompression treatment every day, don’t you think? (1.3 mm x 23 discs = 3 cm)
I think that expanding intervertebral disc height in this way shouldn’t lead to spine problems because it would be something similar to what happens to astronauts.
It’s just an hypothesis, but I think that it is a field that must be explored since it could bring safely to a small but effective height gain (at least 1 inch, I guess).
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ThickButt

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2020, 05:30:18 PM »

Thanks ThickButt, you’re so inspiring! I really appreciated what you wrote. Let us know if you find something else.
In the meanwhile, I’d like to draw your attention to this: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20615252/.
It says that non-surgical spinal decompression increased the height of lumbar degenerated discs from 7.5 mm to 8.8 mm (1.3 mm increase).
If by hypothesis similar results could be achieved also for non-degenerated discs in the entire spine, people could grow at least 1 inch repeating non-surgical decompression treatment every day, don’t you think? (1.3 mm x 23 discs = 3 cm)
I think that expanding intervertebral disc height in this way shouldn’t lead to spine problems because it would be something similar to what happens to astronauts.
It’s just an hypothesis, but I think that it is a field that must be explored since it could bring safely to a small but effective height gain (at least 1 inch, I guess).

Thanks haha, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'm totally obsessed with the concept of torso lengthening. It's kinda the holy grail for me. And sure thing, will continue to share!

Regarding the study you linked - something you have to keep in mind is any increases they talk about are restorative, as in they are just bringing the disks back to their original height. There is little to no added stress on the exterior disk membrane.

Think of the disks like gel filled balloons. Disk degeneration represents a deflating of a balloon over time. The injection treatment pumps gel back into the balloon and brings it back closer to its original level of inflation. However, like a balloon, if you inflate too much you run the risk of a pop or rupture. When you experience a herniation it can result in pinched nerves which are no joke. They are immensely painful and have a cascading effect of causing pain and lack of function along any limb or extremity that leads away from the pinch location. Through multi-vertebral injection therapy you are increasing this risk along the entire spine. And the thing about the spine is once one portion is compromised, the rest of the spine has to compensate leading to more stress and more ruptures. The effect compounds each time.

In addition to outward pressure from gel over-inflation, you must also remember the top and down compressive forces acting on the disk from the adjacent vertebrae. So think of the overinflated balloon now being squeezed on both ends by too books. If it wasn't going to pop before, the risk has now increased dramatically. With day to day activities you might be fine, but if you had a high fall or needed to carry something heavy, the increased pressure might be enough to cause a pop(s). Bear in mind, disk herniation occurs frequently irl on people with normal, unmodified disks. Under the proposed treatment, I think your day to day activities would be quite limited.

Lastly, we must also remember the facet joints on the rear of the spine. These joints are very precisely positioned and help stabilize the movement of adjacent vertebrae relative to each other. I will try finding the study, but I remember reading that an over-inflation of the vertebral disc of even a few cm dramatically changed the ability of the facet joints to function correctly (in the negative direction). I'm not great at explaining, but if you look up videos explaining facet joints and their function you will see why this is an important thing to consider.

This is why if you read Dr. Hynes proposed treatment, he mentions only targeting isolated portions of the spine as opposed to attempting treatment along the length of the entirety of the back. He finds the vertebrae where modification would result in the least bio-mechanical effect and thereby allows for more realistic management of potential dangers. 
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Antoine

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2020, 07:52:14 PM »

Thank you very much, you are really clear and experienced. :) I’ll PM you to ask you a little question.
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ThickButt

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2020, 11:01:52 PM »

Thank you very much, you are really clear and experienced. :) I’ll PM you to ask you a little question.

No problem! Again, I'm no expert, but I'm glad you found the posts helpful.

Replied to your PM :D
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Antoine

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2020, 02:51:29 AM »

No problem! Again, I'm no expert, but I'm glad you found the posts helpful.

Replied to your PM :D

Yes, really helpful. Thank you! :)
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F_99

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2020, 10:01:50 AM »

What do you guys think about this

http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/08/Researchers-find-method-to-regrow-cartilage-in-the-joints.html

Could they possibly "overgrow" the joint size by adding cartilage volume? Hence result in a total greater leg length?
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Antoine

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2020, 03:32:23 PM »

What do you guys think about this

http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/08/Researchers-find-method-to-regrow-cartilage-in-the-joints.html

Could they possibly "overgrow" the joint size by adding cartilage volume? Hence result in a total greater leg length?

I guess something like this could be possibile. We’re talking about it here:
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=j52cp6kmn6s6i7rjfb5fc0kto5&topic=65416.msg177869;topicseen#msg177869
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precice strider

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Re: Leg Lengthening Alternative for a Quick 1-2 Inch Gain (Seriously)
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2020, 06:02:36 PM »

Any idea when this would become a real thing?

Also how much would it cost?
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