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[programdude]

I'm in my early 20's, 5 8, seeking an approximately three inch gain in my tibias.

I have been researching this thoroughly and have turned in my passport application in preparation for the potential eventual flight(somewhere). My plan right now is to get braces, which I have always wanted to do, but been to vain for the temporary blemish. I'm not sure the logistics of the braces I'll get exactly, but depending on when I need to be in office for that I will attempt to begin LL towards the end of that process so they overlap.

I've attached a picture and from what people have told me online I may have a slight case of bowed legs, but I'm worried it wouldn't be serious enough to cut the costs with insurance and when I contacted dr. M he said I'd have to come in for a consultation but that would involve around 1k in expenses as well as taking a couple days of work, potentially to just be told "thanks for the money but you have to pay 69k for the internals alone, let alone housing and PT".  Any information you guys have about this would be great- I have Aetna insurance.

I do have a large savings, but what some have mentioned(75-100k) is just too much, so if insurance cannot help I think externals with Dr. Xia may be the smartest option.

I am in my early 20's- don't currently have any extremely serious obligations(some work related but I think I could manage), and from what I've read this is sort of something you have to just go for, or you'll never get done. Basically- How feasible is it that I can get internals or should I just suck it up and get the flight to beijing? Or is there a better option altogether.

[KiloKAHN]

I'd avoid internal tibias. You can't do corrections while lengthening with internals (have to do them separately), there's a higher chance of getting compartment syndrome, and because they have to put in the rod through your knee there's reasonable probability of developing permanent knee pain. If you want to correct your bowing too you should do externals or LATN. If you want to avoid the long fixation time with externals but also avoid the chance of knee pain from insertion of the rod with LATN, then bilateral plate fixation can reduce your time wearing frames (the downside with plate fixation being that there are not many peer reviewed studies on it being used on both tibias at the same time in adults, and you might have larger scars).

The Beijing clinic is a good option. Dr Birkholtz in SA also seems to be a good choice as you'll pay about the same and accommodation is included  (he's answered many questions on this forum and gave people very valuable info, you can take a look at info plus pics of his hospital in his thread within the doctor directory).

[Wannabegiant]

Im pretty sure you wont get any reduced costs for having slightly bowed legs with your insurance. Your LL doctor will charge full price however included in that price is the fact that they (depending on the method you use) can fix the bow leg at the same time as they lengthen the legs. You have very slight bowlegs so maybe you gain another 0.5 cm or less from correcting that possibly.

[TRS]

I feel that LATN is the better option than LON. The advantage is that you will get to experience the frames first and then be in a better position to decide whether keeping the frames on for several more months (pure external) is worth it. This allows more flexibility than having an IM rod inserted from early on.
I'd personally not choose internal tibia nailing for the reasons mentioned by Kilokahn.

[programdude]

This is very interesting information, thanks for the fast responses.

With externals if I went to say, bejing, would it be included in the fee for LL surgery to fix my slightly bowed legs? With what you guys have said it sounds like internal tibias is a horrible idea, especially since I just read it usually is accompanied by knee pain after the surgery. The fact it could get me some "free" Cm's is not scoffed at.

Now I do modeling so the less scars the better, but knee pain is also not really an option since returning to workouts eventually is essential, is there any way to work around this?

Lastly, since I am a fitness bodybuilder and young, even if I lengthen the full 3 inches in my tibias, is it likely I'd be able to make a near full recovery?

[Wannabegiant]

This is very interesting information, thanks for the fast responses.

With externals if I went to say, bejing, would it be included in the fee for LL surgery to fix my slightly bowed legs? With what you guys have said it sounds like internal tibias is a horrible idea, especially since I just read it usually is accompanied by knee pain after the surgery. The fact it could get me some "free" Cm's is not scoffed at.

Now I do modeling so the less scars the better, but knee pain is also not really an option since returning to workouts eventually is essential, is there any way to work around this?

Lastly, since I am a fitness bodybuilder and young, even if I lengthen the full 3 inches in my tibias, is it likely I'd be able to make a near full recovery?

You dont have much bowleg though, very little, i doubt you will even get 1 cm from that correction, maybe 0.5 cm or less, but thats still something.

Lengthening 3 inches on one segment is quite extreme, people have done it, like Rgkey. But we have no empirical evidence to say how well they recover. Very few people have lengthened that much on one segment. And it seems likely that full recovery is impossible considering that doctors say ~15% increase of bone length is recommended and to not pass that limit, as that is said to be beyond the elastic limit of the soft tissue.

[programdude]

If I can gain some off the bow leg correction that would be great, since then I could lengthen less to achieve my goal height of 5 11. I am currently 5 8 and a quarter so if I could get to 5 11 and be able to make a recovery I would consider that an immense success, with the lengthening not needing to be an actual 3 inches.

[crimsontide]

I don't consider 3 inches extreme At all... The  vast majority of people do at least 6 cm when they lengthen, etc...and seems like all are ok except for some that go over 8 or 9 cm.....I doubt any of us will fully recover if that means we will be the same as we were before... I think that's true even if one only does 3 or 4 cm... what I consider fully recovered is walking normally with minimal to no pain,  I do not expect to ever be the same as I Was before. ..

[Wannabegiant]

If I can gain some off the bow leg correction that would be great, since then I could lengthen less to achieve my goal height of 5 11. I am currently 5 8 and a quarter so if I could get to 5 11 and be able to make a recovery I would consider that an immense success, with the lengthening not needing to be an actual 3 inches.

I was 5'9 when i started and now i am a bit over 5'10, i only did 4 cm. For that kind of increase on tibias external only is the best option.

If you want to gain 3 inches on tibias, i guess external and plating is the best option for recovery and reasonable timeframe, external only heals better but 3 inches with no plating would mean a very long time in frames.

[Wannabegiant]

I don't consider 3 inches extreme At all... The  vast majority of people do at least 6 cm when they lengthen, etc...and seems like all are ok except for some that go over 8 or 9 cm.....I doubt any of us will fully recover if that means we will be the same as we were before... I think that's true even if one only does 3 or 4 cm... what I consider fully recovered is walking normally with minimal to no pain,  I do not expect to ever be the same as I Was before. ..

3 inches is 7.62 cm, and that is towards the extreme end of tibia lengthening. Sweden did 7 cm and he has had a very hard time recovering.

They say that the "safe" limit for tibia lengthening is 6 cm. So while 7.62 is definitely doable but we dont have much evidence that you will recover fully. Medium drink of water is the only one i can think of, and he isnt 100% recovered but close.

And a person who lengthens 3 or 4 cm will definitely have much better chance of recovering compared to 6 cm or more, thats a fact. But it depends on the individuals ability to stretch their muscle and people with longer limbs from the beginning can lengthen more because the increase will be smaller percentage wise.

[crimsontide]

Sweden has not really had a hard time. .. The reason it is hard for him is because he was an elite athlete, and now he isn't. .. Sweden has even said he can do spinning leg kicks again,.. To me that is fully recovered... To him, it Might not be, as he compares his present self to his old... but if he had done 5 cm, he still would not be the same athlete as he was. ..

No one recovers fully if that means you Are equal to your old self. .. If medium isnt considered fully recovered, then no one is. ..  There is no evidence I've seen that suggests we will ever be the same as before. .. even if it's only a slight difference... We are breaking our bones and stretching them along with nerves, muscles, etc... i dont see how that doesn't permanently Change function. .. Im ok with this though,  but I think this is the reality

[Wannabegiant]

Sweden has not really had a hard time. .. The reason it is hard for him is because he was an elite athlete, and now he isn't. .. Sweden has even said he can do spinning leg kicks again,.. To me that is fully recovered... To him, it Might not be, as he compares his present self to his old... but if he had done 5 cm, he still would not be the same athlete as he was. ..

No one recovers fully if that means you Are equal to your old self. .. If medium isnt considered fully recovered, then no one is. ..  There is no evidence I've seen that suggests we will ever be the same as before. .. even if it's only a slight difference... We are breaking our bones and stretching them along with nerves, muscles, etc... i dont see how that doesn't permanently Change function. .. Im ok with this though,  but I think this is the reality

You obviously havent read his diary then. He has been in pain for most of the year after his LL was done. He has problems with his ankles, and his running is far from his old self. He is not fully recovered even if he wasnt a elite athlete.  If he had done 5 cm it could have speeded up his recovery substantially, and his total potential for recovery would likely be higher as well.

One can recover fully with the only difference being the changes to the biomechanics of the leg, the ratio between femur and tibia is supposed to be around 0.8, and its much more likely to remain within that range or close if you lengthen a smaller ammount like 3 or 4 cm. That means you will be more similar to your old self when you recover if you lengthen less. This should be obvious.

The fact is that there is a tradeoff. The more you lengthen the further from your old self you will be in terms of function and ability. how much of a difference it makes is individual.

[Moubgf]

Sure there must be people who lengthen and is then done with the pain/discomfort, 1 year after surgery right?.

I mean there is over a 1000 people who have done leg lengthening, SOME HAVE EVEN LENGTHENED FEMUR & TIBIA AT THE SAME TIME!!.

And they are smiling and happy after picture (maybe hoax, but i don't think so..since this is before LL was to be a buyers market).

We even had a small girl on old forum  i think who cross lengthened or even lengthened tibia & femur at the same time...while she suffered discomfort and is a female with softer bones i still think today she is more than okay.

So you guys are overating this thing. Ofcourse there is gonna be pain and discomfort for a year after surgery that comes with the price no?. Who lengthens 4-5 cm and think it was worth it? no one...unless you are already average height to begin with... No 7 cm or go home. IMO

[programdude]

I don't need to be an elite athlete, but my concerns are both being able to get back to the gym and build up my legs at some point and not too severe scars since I do modeling. If I can get to 5 11, which isnt the full 3 inches since I'm about 5 8 .25 and there may be some gains from bowed leg correction, I would be very satisfied for the 33k(I think that is the cost). I have the wingspan of someone who is about 6 1 lol....

[Ronaldo]

It depends on what you define as recover fully.     

Walk?  Run?  Jump?  Workout at Gym?  Play Sports?   

How much you recover fully depends on many things.   

Was your doctor surgical skills good?  What technique was used?   Did you had right amount of physio therapy and nutrition?   How much did you lengthen?  What was your initial bone length?   What was your physical condition and age? 

That's my point.  It's not do 5cm and you'll guarantee to be X amount of recovery.

[crimsontide]

Slim, I agree with you actually. .. I just think we need to be realistic. .. I never said we won't be happy,  just not to expect us to be the same. .


Wannabe. , you keep saying we can fully recover, but I don't see even 1 person in their diaries saying that. .. even the very happy ones say they get tired more easily, etc...

Sweden ankle pain is in the morning now when he wakes up, and again,   we should expect we will have some aches too...

We are changing our center of gravity, stretching muscles  never meant to stretch this way, etc...  We can live great happy lives, but we will be permanently changed , and not just regarding height

[programdude]

I am young, flexible, muscular, and strong. Bringing protein powders/vitamins to make sure I have plenty of nutrients wouldn't be a problem either. The plan right now looks like bejing, which seem to have decent track record. I do not need to run marathons, but lifting weights to build muscle and running/jogging/hiking are things I would want in my future.

[TRS]

Well the best advice to a potential LL'er is that if you think you are confident and currently satisfied with life even though you are short/average then LL is not really worth it! LL should only be a last resort if you are extremely depressed about height and face heightism on a constant basis that hinders you living a normal life. The truth is that by doing LL you will be changing your normal anatomy and physiology even with small amounts of lengthening. Even if your LL is successful, you can risk long term complications such as premature joint stiffness and early arthritis! Any internal nailing in your tibias has a risk of 50% knee pain (regardless how much lengthening has been done)and only half of those people with knee pain will eventually improve. Unlike other cosmetic surgeries, LL is no stroll in the park and can affect you lifelong. You better think hard whether LL is worth and only do it if you think your quality of life will significantly improve. And since you are worried about scarring then your best option would be internal nailing and I honestly don't think you will gain much height with bowleg correction with external frames (max 1 cm maybe if your lucky?). 

[Moubgf]

Well the best advice to a potential LL'er is that if you think you are confident and currently satisfied with life even though you are short/average then LL is not really worth it! LL should only be a last resort if you are extremely depressed about height and face heightism on a constant basis that hinders you living a normal life. The truth is that by doing LL you will be changing your normal anatomy and physiology even with small amounts of lengthening. Even if your LL is successful, you can risk long term complications such as premature joint stiffness and early arthritis! Any internal nailing in your tibias has upto 50% knee pain (regardless how much lengthening has been done)and only half of those people with knee pain will eventually improve. Unlike other cosmetic surgeries, LL is no stroll in the park and can affect you lifelong. You better think hard whether LL is worth and only do it if you think your quality of life will significantly improve. And since you are worried about scarring then your best option would be internal nailing and I honestly don't think you will gain much height with bowleg correction (max 1 cm maybe if your lucky?).

1 free cm from bowleg correction? thank  you very much i will take that..

But you know bro in this day and age you HAVE to be above average to really enjoy this world. So this is not as much can i deal with being short..it's more i HAVE to be semi tall in order to succeed in whatever i chooses in life.

And if i end up looking like sweden in that youtube clip he showed us then im definetly doing leg lengthening without a doubt. THE DUDE IS DOING LEG KICKS IN THE FRICKING AIR !!! if that is not recovered to the point of living a normal life then i don't know what is. I have felt emotional pain all my life.. I think i can handle some knee pain when im 35.

[TRS]

1 free cm from bowleg correction? thank  you very much i will take that..

But you know bro in this day and age you HAVE to be above average to really enjoy this world. So this is not as much can i deal with being short..it's more i HAVE to be semi tall in order to succeed in whatever i chooses in life.

And if i end up looking like sweden in that youtube clip he showed us then im definetly doing leg lengthening without a doubt. THE DUDE IS DOING LEG KICKS IN THE FRICKING AIR !!! if that is not recovered to the point of living a normal life then i don't know what is. I have felt emotional pain all my life.. I think i can handle some knee pain when im 35.

Well, yes it is true that being taller than average will give you more opportunities but you don't have to be tall to enjoy the world. I have seen many short and average guys living life to the fullest with a very successful career and dating/marrying beautiful women. It mostly comes down to confidence to be honest. If you are confident then you will attract the things you want in life and will have it your way.

[Wannabegiant]

Sure there must be people who lengthen and is then done with the pain/discomfort, 1 year after surgery right?.

I mean there is over a 1000 people who have done leg lengthening, SOME HAVE EVEN LENGTHENED FEMUR & TIBIA AT THE SAME TIME!!.

And they are smiling and happy after picture (maybe hoax, but i don't think so..since this is before LL was to be a buyers market).

We even had a small girl on old forum  i think who cross lengthened or even lengthened tibia & femur at the same time...while she suffered discomfort and is a female with softer bones i still think today she is more than okay.

So you guys are overating this thing. Ofcourse there is gonna be pain and discomfort for a year after surgery that comes with the price no?. Who lengthens 4-5 cm and think it was worth it? no one...unless you are already average height to begin with... No 7 cm or go home. IMO

The point is that there is a trade off, the more you lengthen the longer it will take to recover, and in many cases it can mean you lower your potential for how much you can recover.

And 4-5 cm is definitely worth it if most people you hang around with are about 4-5 cm longer than you. Average in Sweden for guys is around 180 cm, so if you are 175, then 4-5 cm means you go from below average to average. Id say that is easily worth it, especially since it means better recovery compared to if i did 6 or 7 cm.

[programdude]

Yeah, the problem is I'm NOT content. I am confident in some ways but height has bothered me heavily, especially since I have the head and arms of someone who is 6 1 so it doesn't look very good.

And its not like its just with women. I get laid regularly enough but just in interactions I feel pretty dis proportional and my exterior doesn't match my mental image of myself. Beyond that.. Make a tinder account(dating app for the unaware)- I am a model but even despite all the interest the most common question is "how tall are you" heck some profiles say dont swipe right if under 6 feet!

Again its not that I am choked up over these chicks on a case by case basis- but the very concept of being judged in general by society like that doesn't rub me the right way. The idea of dying a short man doesn't either.

[Wannabegiant]

Slim, I agree with you actually. .. I just think we need to be realistic. .. I never said we won't be happy,  just not to expect us to be the same. .


Wannabe. , you keep saying we can fully recover, but I don't see even 1 person in their diaries saying that. .. even the very happy ones say they get tired more easily, etc...

Sweden ankle pain is in the morning now when he wakes up, and again,   we should expect we will have some aches too...

We are changing our center of gravity, stretching muscles  never meant to stretch this way, etc...  We can live great happy lives, but we will be permanently changed , and not just regarding height

Most people lenghten more than they should probably if they wanted to recover completely. And most people dont post one year after they are done so we dont know. I never claimed full recovery is 100% certain, i only said that its much more likely to reach it if you lengthen 4 cm compared to above 6 cm, and you are able to recover more the less you lengthen for obvious reasons.

Also, i dont have any ankle pain now, and i didnt have it for any period during the lengthening phase. So now that i am done lengthening i dont see why i would get ankle pain when they remove the frames. So i dont expect to have that problem. I have also been walking a lot during lengthening.

[FrankGarrett]

Well, yes it is true that being taller than average will give you more opportunities but you don't have to be tall to enjoy the world. I have seen many short and average guys living life to the fullest with a very successful career and dating/marrying beautiful women. It mostly comes down to confidence to be honest. If you are confident then you will attract the things you want in life and will have it your way.

Exactly. Short guys can get by if they have confidence in themselves. There are short people out there who would never dare dream of cosmetic leg lengthening surgery because happy with their lives.

The thing is, they're not members of this forum because the underconfident and insecure guys are the ones Googling "how the get taller" and find their way here.

Some people just need to understand that your ideal height is relative and some people aren't comfortable being a certain height.

[TRS]

Exactly. Short guys can get by if they have confidence in themselves. There are short people out there who would never dare dream of cosmetic leg lengthening surgery because happy with their lives.

The thing is, they're not members of this forum because the underconfident and insecure guys are the ones Googling "how the get taller" and find their way here.

Some people just need to understand that your ideal height is relative and some people aren't comfortable being a certain height.

I agree Frank, that the ideal height is relative! This is best exemplified by several members in this forum. We have 182.5cm and tallready who are already above average height in their respective countries and considered tall in more than 90 % of the countries and yet seeking CLL to end their height neurosis and suffering. On the other hand, we have members here who are not content with being tall (one standing at 6'2) and actively seeking surgery to reduce height by several inches. So this clearly shows that height is relative and you don't have to be tall to enjoy the world. It's all in the mind!!!   

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Your bowed legs don't look bad enough that insurance would cover getting them fixed.  I think they'd have to be impairing your life in some way, or threatening to impair it down the road when you get older.  You might consider getting a consultation with a local orthopedic doctor before making a decision on whether to pursue it through insurance or not.

I think it's better for you to go for externals or LON/LATN.  You can lengthen and get the bowed legs correction all in one go.  With internal-only methods you're looking at two separate surgeries.  The fact that you don't have major obligations means you can go to China and stay there for the 4-5 months it'll take, and have nurses and doctors caring for you around the clock.  That was actually a great experience except for the pain; it was like being a kid again, being cared for like that and filling my time with computer games/movies/chatting with other patients.  It was like living in a college dorm some of the time.

Good luck on your LL journey!

[programdude]

Hey Medium, thats a helpeful comment, and it really assuages my fears talking to someone whos been there done that. Part of the reason I want to strike now, so to speak, is that yeah I dont have obligations now, but who knows about a year from now or two? It might sound insane but the challenge and lack of my usual environment actually sounds exciting.

My biggest question is which method to tackle now- While trying to correct my bowed legs, make a good gain(as close to 3 inches as possible), while avoiding chronic knee pain and REALLY ugly scars. Recovering to the point of being able to do everything short of marathons over the course of several years is also essential.

What are your thoughts on this? Is it realistic to meet these expectations?