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[Oh So Arrogant]

I just spoke with two different patients who had surgery with Dr. Pili. Both had surgery over 2 years ago and still can't even walk properly. They said running or playing sports is basically impossible. They both lengthened their tibia's and then had achilles tendon lengthening surgery recommended by Dr. Pili.

It is incredibly dangerous to surgically lengthen your achillies tendon. I never understood why Dr. Pili talks about it so casually as if it's no big deal and routinely recommends it. Now I find out his patients can barely walk.

I can't even imagine how many more of his patients are in this same situation. I will be speaking with at least one more of his patients later in the week who says they are suffering the same effects after their achilles tendon lengthening surgery.

[Oh So Arrogant]

Here is Dr. Pili lying to a member on this forum who questioned him about performing Achillies Tendon Lengthening Surgery.

Achilles Tendon Lengthening surgery is needed to avoid equinus foot deformity.
It is not dangerous at all in my experience as I never had ant serious complication following this surgery.

If you get equinus foot during lengthening (80% chance over 4-5 cm lengthening) it is necessary to achieve a good alignment, to walk during the treatment and avoid long recovery time after frame removal.

That is a total and complete lie. This surgery is so dangerous that no other respectable doctor ever recommends it.

[Honore]

Thank you for the information. Can I ask you how you got in contact with the former patients?

[0184946]

Wow, so sorry for them. I hope they get better soon. It is said that any surgeon that does or recommend ATL is a quack.

[fivetenneeded2016]

Oh so Arrogant: How did you manage to talk to the patients? I am a current patient, I doubt unless you met Dr Pili in person, he wouldnt let you talk to his patients. No offence, but I am just curious on how you managed to speak to the patients. No doubt that the surgery is kinda risky but still I have not heard any of his patients say that. I am in touch with a fellow patient whose brother did 9.5 ish after achilles. He said he is fine. espresso, lumiere and few more too said they were fine, although all did say the initial few weeks were tough till the wires were removed. I am not saying its safe, but I havent heard any botch up as well though.

[Great321]

Why should any reliable doctor prevent someone from talking to his former patients? I guess he just talked to them in private without Dr. Pili's consent...

Dr. Paley and Dr. Giotikas both say that after ATL you won't be the same. And from Dr. Paley we know that he is very experienced..so shouldn't we take it serious?

fivetenneeded2016: be cautious, I wish you the best

[badexperience]

If this is true, there's no hope for me. I'm sure Guichet and Monegal are to be avoided because I visited them and got a very, very bad impression. I haven't visited Pili but I think I won't even try. What for? New disappointment? Perhaps I will have a look at the new Greek option.

[Hamiltonzac]

On an estimate what's the chance of needing ATL say for 5-6max cm of gain in the Tibia?

[Great321]

On an estimate what's the chance of needing ATL say for 5-6max cm of gain in the Tibia?

Dr. Pili:

"if Achilles tendo lengthening is needed (80% chance) it will cost you around 4500 €. For ATL, lengthening 5 cm is around 40-50%."

That's still a high number.

[Hamiltonzac]

Dr. Pili:

"if Achilles tendo lengthening is needed (80% chance) it will cost you around 4500 €. For ATL, lengthening 5 cm is around 40-50%."

That's still a high number.

I agree but it's odd because I have not read that many people actually got it done, mabey I just havn't read enough diaries.

[Body Builder]

Dr. Pili:

"if Achilles tendo lengthening is needed (80% chance) it will cost you around 4500 €. For ATL, lengthening 5 cm is around 40-50%."

That's still a high number.

BS.

For 5-6cm all patients will walk normal if they do PT and walk unaided, at max 6-7 months after full consolidation.

NOONE needs atl! if someon start to have severe equinus thes he should stop LL. Continuing lengthening amd just doing atl to "fix" equinus just makes patient semiparaplegic.
After atl NOONE is normal. All patients will have a degree of incapability, from medium to too much. Walking is really hard, jumping almost impossible and if someone pushes you you'll fall down like you are 20kg only!
Atl should be banned, so simple.

I know how that nightmare is and I thank God everyday that, after a lot of frustration and sadness, I managed to fix my ruined legs and feel almost normal today.
I am maybe the only one in the world that performed at shortening surgery after atl (and not after an elongated tendon due to at rupture) so I am only one of the very few in the world who knows how bad atl feels and how important is a normal tendon length.

I dont want to talk about myself but my experience with atl and at shortening is so unique that as I said I am maybe the only one in the world that did both these surgeries so I really know what I am talking about.
Pili is plain stupid to do atl, epsecially for minor lengthenings like 5-6 cm where NOONE have so severe equinus that cant be fixed just with walking and pt.

If one of his patients that did atl had another opinion, they should write it here.
My personal experience and from all the people that I know that did atl (Crimsontide etc) is that atl is the worst mistake that an LLer could to himself.
It simply ruins your legs.

[0184946]

Dr. Pili:

"if Achilles tendo lengthening is needed (80% chance) it will cost you around 4500 €. For ATL, lengthening 5 cm is around 40-50%."

That's still a high number.

So half his patients that are doing 5-6cm which is not too much and is average are getting atl? Wow. Absurd.

[myloginacct]

This account was involved in a lot of crazy shxt when it registered in the forum so it's difficult to take it seriously. But I respect the notion of "trying to get the truth out there".

If those patients are real, tell them to post their stories here. The whole community would benefit, and they can remain anonymous, with basic knowledge and precautions taken for it.

[fivetenneeded2016]

Why should any reliable doctor prevent someone from talking to his former patients? I guess he just talked to them in private without Dr. Pili's consent...

Dr. Paley and Dr. Giotikas both say that after ATL you won't be the same. And from Dr. Paley we know that he is very experienced..so shouldn't we take it serious?

fivetenneeded2016: be cautious, I wish you the best

Any LL surgeon not just Dr Pili, would first show you before after photos/xrays and may be testimonials. No one gives their patients contact details unless you have met them or have had an appointment. Even then, the patients consent is required. I dont know if the OP has met Dr Pili in person and has obtained the consent of patients to be contacted.

Again, by no means, I am saying ATL is safe. I would try my best to avoid it myself. I havent hearnt any bad outcomes from the people who were operated for ATL under Dr Pili though. Also if you check my older posts, during my visit to Dr Parihar last year, he too said if done carefully its fine.

[hanshi]

Hey guys, you should finally understand that LL doctors are only after your money and give a damn about you. Therefore as long as they can get away with crippling their patients they will do it regularly. In my opinion the only way to be safe is to have it done in the US, the only country where the doctors are afraid of being sued. Europe is on par with India when it comes to patient safety.

[myloginacct]

Hey guys, you should finally understand that LL doctors are only after your money and give a damn about you. Therefore as long as they can get away with crippling their patients they will do it regularly. In my opinion the only way to be safe is to have it done in the US, the only country where the doctors are afraid of being sued. Europe is on par with India when it comes to patient safety.

Can you elaborate on that?

The EU specially tends to be stricter than the US in almost all kinds of regulations. However, in the medical field, is the situation the opposite?

[Body Builder]

Can you elaborate on that?

The EU specially tends to be stricter than the US in almost all kinds of regulations. However, in the medical field, is the situation the opposite?

No it is not.
And india has nothing in common with EU in terms of medical laws .

[hanshi]

Can you elaborate on that?

The EU specially tends to be stricter than the US in almost all kinds of regulations. However, in the medical field, is the situation the opposite?

In most European countries the doctor is almost certain to win any lawsuit against a patient. The burden of proof is on the patient, but the doctors have all the evidence. The patient must prove 2 things, the fact that the doctor made a mistake and that his damage was caused by this mistake. The only way to prove this is to get an expertise from another doctor. Doctors normally stick together and help each other.
Also, there is no FDA in Europe which would control medical devices like lengthening nails. The manufacturers control themselves. The US regulations are much better here. That's the reason why e.g. some European lengthening nails are advertised as fully weight bearing. You won't see that with FDA approved nails.
Further, in the unlikely case a doctor loses a case, the compensation he has to pay is minuscule in comparison to what the patient would get in the US.
It's all about the legal position of the patient.

[hanshi]

I forgot to mention there are exceptions. France has much better patient protection than most other European countries. That's why Guichet no longer works in Marseille but moved to Italy and the UK instead.

[Knik]

that would be great to have those old patients here
they probably have more to say about it than the author

[Hamiltonzac]

Not completely disregarding what your saying but I find this hard to believe. I would assume that most CLL patients get 5cm or more done on their tibias and if this guy keeps doing ATL with bad outcomes surely someone would have noticed? Catagni would have also advised against this no?

[Oh So Arrogant]

Achilles tendon surgery is to be avoided at all times. Only in the most extreme cases should this surgery even be considered. COSMETIC LENGTHENING SHOULD NEVER LEAD TO ACHILLES TENDON SURGERY!

That is what numerous doctors have told me. I'm sorry for the patients who are currently lengthening with Pili and those who already have. Their lives will never be the same. Very sad...

[lemonade311]

If this is true, there's no hope for me. I'm sure Guichet and Monegal are to be avoided because I visited them and got a very, very bad impression. I haven't visited Pili but I think I won't even try. What for? New disappointment? Perhaps I will have a look at the new Greek option.

Guichet is similar price to Paley. Why don't you just got for Paley?

[myloginacct]

Hey guys, you should finally understand that CLL doctors are only after your money and give a damn about you.

True words. At least about most who work with CLL. Even Paley is a salesman. We just look the other way due to his experience and abilities. And also because us willing lab rats should help fund in some way all his other main work doing deformity and limb discrepancy correction in children.

[419]

Not completely disregarding what your saying but I find this hard to believe. I would assume that most CLL patients get 5cm or more done on their tibias and if this guy keeps doing ATL with bad outcomes surely someone would have noticed? Catagni would have also advised against this no?

yes, if you do research on diaries you will see Catagni and Pili are kind of obsessed with doing ATL with CLL, for them it sems it is a combined package - and FYI I have been told by many folks on PM ( I would not like to name) that ATL has destroyed their lives. If you have some special reason to either defend or chose Pili or Catagni - fine - at the end it is individual choices. This forum is for sharing and exchanging thoughts and information, but each individual makes his/her own choice and oun journey. I personally would never go to Pili or Catagni even if they do the surgery free of cost.

[419]

Can you elaborate on that?

The EU specially tends to be stricter than the US in almost all kinds of regulations. However, in the medical field, is the situation the opposite?

you must be joking. Except EU rules being stricter on Genetically modified food (which in any case in a bull  law and EU has scientifically been proven wrong), all other regulations in US are stricter, and by far.

[myloginacct]

you must be joking. Except EU rules being stricter on Genetically modified food (which in any case in a bull  law and EU has scientifically been proven wrong), all other regulations in US are stricter, and by far.

Hi, Prakash - welcome back. Do you have more information on this topic?

[Oh So Arrogant]

If you do research on diaries you will see Catagni and Pili are kind of obsessed with doing ATL with CLL, for them it sems it is a combined package - and FYI I have been told by many folks on PM ( I would not like to name) that ATL has destroyed their lives. I personally would never go to Pili or Catagni even if they do the surgery free of cost.

Pili does achilles tendon surgery for tibia lengthening the way most doctors do ITB release for femur surgery. It's absolutely crazy! There are so many patients of Pili who can barely function properly after ATL. I'm with you, if surgery was free I wouldn't let Pili operate on me. I'd rather save my money for another doctor to have a normal life after lengthening.

[warrior]

Goodmorning everyone,
is the first time I write in the forum I joined yesterday.
I should OPERATE in Lecco in October with Catagni, who is known to work with Pili.
The first thing that told me with great serenity is that generally after 5 cm of lengthening the Achilles tendon is extended and that it would have booked the surgery immediately after the first days of lengthening.
It seems strange to me that if it is so dangerous, it spoke calmly, also because being an Italian citizen, the intervention of the tendon is covered by the health system and not at the patient's expense.

[warrior]

I do not agree on what you say, the intervention to the Achilles tendon is necessary after 3 - 4 cm because this tendon does not naturally extend too much, so if you do a stretch of 5-6-7-8 cm of tibia you will remain on tiptoe, the intervention consists in thinning the tendon in order to make it more elastic.

[Body Builder]

I do not agree on what you say, the intervention to the Achilles tendon is necessary after 3 - 4 cm because this tendon does not naturally extend too much, so if you do a stretch of 5-6-7-8 cm of tibia you will remain on tiptoe, the intervention consists in thinning the tendon in order to make it more elastic.

You dont have any idea what atl is.
They dont just thin your tendon.
They cut it in a z cut and they reattach both of its edges to a new length which most of the time is longer at least 3cm. All the inside gap is filled with scar tissue which is comoletely unelastic and more weak than real tendon. This will be your new "tendon"
Also, except from scar tissue, the new length leads to permanent and major deficits in power and tension which means that your balance will be way off and your push off power so reduced that even jumping and running will be almost impossible.
Thats what atl is, not just a thinner tendon but a thinner, longer tendon full of scar tissue which makes sokeus-gastrocnemius tension, the most important function of any muscle, completely off.

All doctors that perform atl obviously have no idea how catastrophic is otherwise they would have stopped doing it like all respectable doctors.
But that doesnt mean that the patient should suffer for the lack of knowledge the doctor has.

Also, tendon is very elastic that with walking and standing most patients will be completely ok without equinus up to 6-6.5 cm tibua lemgthening.
But even equinus is 1000 more preferable than almost useless legs that dont have the power for even everyday things.

It is my duty and all of patients that underwent atl to prevent other patients to even think about it.
But if you still do it then the responsibility for your condition will be completely yours.